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MILITARY TRIBUNALS; A SHORT HISTORY
The Texas Mercury ^ | March 24, 2002 | Paul Weber

Posted on 04/07/2002 4:54:28 PM PDT by one2many

Military Justice
&

Other Oxymorons

Abraham Lincoln vs the Sioux

Paul Weber

When King George the Second (surnamed Bush) announced that some of the soldiers (or is it detainees? or criminals?) captured in the undeclared war in Afghanistan would be tried in military tribunals, a lot of people got twisted out of shape. Military Tribunals, it seems, are not open to the public; the military serves as judge, jury, and hangman; and the accused can be convicted and sentenced to summary execution merely on a "preponderance of the evidence", rather than the usual "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt" standard used in conventional capital cases. The words "Star Chamber" come immediately to mind. Oh, yes—and the guilty have no right of appeal. Once you’re found guilty, you can step right on out the back door to the waiting hangman.

"Ridiculous!" answered the big-government conservatives. "Military tribunals are very fair. And you don’t have to worry about the trials turning into media circuses like the O. J. Simpson case. We used military tribunals in several wars in the past, and they rendered even-handed justice."

Actually, no. American military tribunals have historically been set up to railroad people quickly to the hangman’s noose. Abraham Lincoln, the first president from the Republican Party (as well as our Empire’s first dictator), set up military tribunals in the Civil War that were allegedly to be used to try people in parts of the country where the conventional court system had broken down as a result of the war. Interestingly, one of the more famous military tribunals was set up in a state that was never threatened by the Southern rebels: Minnesota. The accused were not rebel soldiers, but Sioux Indians who had been causing a ruckus by making unreasonable demands on the Lincoln Administration, such as actually sticking to the terms of a treaty. According to Thomas DiLorenzo, author of a new book titled The Real Lincoln, the Santee Sioux of Minnesota had sold 24 million acres of land to the federal government for $1.4 million in 1851. By 1862, in the middle of the Civil War, the feds had still paid the Sioux nothing, even though thousands of white settlers had moved into the area. Because of a crop failure that year, the Sioux had begun to starve, and without the promised payments from the feds, they had no means of buying provisions.

Okay, I know it’s hard for you public-school-educated Americans to comprehend, but our masters in Washington really do have a sordid history of breaking treaties, particularly with the Indian tribes.

Weary of being stiffed by Washington, the Sioux finally revolted. In response, Lincoln sent a force under the command of General John Pope, a charming fellow whose stated purpose was to "utterly exterminate the Sioux." Of course the "war", such as it was, was no contest—sort of like the American military conquering the mighty nation of Afghanistan—and hundreds of Sioux, including women and children, were taken prisoner.

This is where the fun really began for the Lincoln administration. Remember, Minnesota never even came close to suffering invasion during the Civil War. The system of courts in Minnesota had not been destroyed. Nonetheless, it was very convenient to identify the Sioux as "illegal combatants" in the war. Maybe they didn’t wear uniforms, or something, or maybe they even attacked innocent civilians—something our own military never does, right? Anyhow, this Military Tribunal, according to David Nichols in Lincoln and the Indians, spent all of about 10 minutes on each "trial." The Sioux, many of whom spoke no English, were not allowed to put up much of a defense, even if they had some foggy notion of what was going on.

Over 300 Sioux were found guilty and sentenced to summary execution. The merciful Lincoln Administration, however, got a few signals from Europe that mass execution of hundreds of starving Indians with whom we had broken a treaty might just be a little bit immoral. Because some of those nations were toying with the idea of coming to the aid of the South, Lincoln decided, in a great show of mercy, to execute only 39 of the prisoners. But to mollify the folks in Minnesota, he also paid $2 million in federal funds, along with a promise to eventually kill or remove every last Indian from the state.

Yes, this is the same Lincoln whom official Washington and the public schools at all levels continually laud as one of our greatest presidents. This is the fellow we celebrate with a national holiday.

Another famous case involves the story of Major Henry Wirz, the unfortunate soldier given the unenviable task of overseeing the Andersonville prison in Georgia during the Civil War. First, a bit of background. The American military, which never targets civilians, (sarcasm) engaged in what we now call "Total War" on the population of the South. That is, they not only attacked the armies of the Confederacy, but also made war on noncombatants. Throughout the South, the invading Union Army burned crops, shot livestock and left the carcasses to rot, and burned people out of their homes. This, added to the fact that the South had been effectively blockaded for several years, meant the civilian population was reduced to starvation and had no access to medicine.

During the early years of the war, the opposing sides negotiated the exchange of prisoners, but as the war dragged on, the North realized that—surprise!— the Union soldiers they were taking back were starving and disease-ridden, a fact that just might have been related to their own blockade and their own policy of Total War. The Union generals, not wanting to "exchange skeletons for healthy men", decided to cease all prisoner exchanges, fully knowing that the South would be put in the impossible position of rationing what little food was available, while at the same time being morally responsible for feeding their prisoners of war. Attorney Louis Schade, in a letter defending Major Wirz, pointed out that the South advised the North that they were unable to feed their prisoners, offering to simply let the North take back their prisoners without any compensating exchange, on humanitarian grounds. The offer was made in August, 1864, but the North did not send transportation to pick up the prisoners until December. It was during that period of time that most of the deaths at Andersonville occurred.

Almost 22,000 Northerners died in Southern camps during the war, compared to the 26,000 Southerners who died in Northern camps, despite the fact that the North did not suffer any blockade or Total War tactics, as had the South. From this, we can gather that Southern troops were not treated very kindly in Northern prisons, but the victors in war get to write the history, so the story of mistreatment in Northern prison camps has been largely swept under the rug.

The North, however, needed a scapegoat and a show trial, so Major Wirz faced a military tribunal. Wirz was made to stand trial despite the fact he had been wounded during surrender. He was so weak that he was unable to sit upright during his trial; he had to recline on a sofa in the courtroom. He was denied the right to speak in his own defense. Wirz, ironically, was accused of "murder in violation of the laws and customs of war." Well, General Sherman never did anything like that, did he? A dozen "witnesses" were produced, all accusing Wirz of personally beating 13 prisoners to death. There were several problems with the testimony, however, the most conspicuous being the fact that none of the alleged "witnesses" could recall the names of any of the victims! This lapse of memory seems to have occurred despite the fact that several of the alleged victims lived for five or six days after the beatings. Isn’t it unusual that, among the thousands of prisoners at Andersonville, not one witness could be produced who could recall the name of a single victim? Against those 15 "witnesses," the defense was allowed to produce 145 witnesses who all swore Wirz never murdered any Union soldiers. Despite the preponderance of evidence indicating Wirz never killed anyone, the Union general in charge of the proceedings (gee--you don’t suppose a commander of the opposition forces would be a little, you know, biased, would you?) found Wirz guilty and ordered him hanged.

It gets better, though. On the night before the scheduled execution, several federal officers approached Schade with an offer of clemency for Wirz if he would simply testify that Jefferson Davis himself had a hand in the "murder" of the unnamed prisoners. Such a claim would be, of course, absurd. Jefferson Davis was never anywhere near Andersonville, but the Union, unable to try Davis for treason, was trolling for a more mundane charge, like murder. Wirz, in one of those strange, darkly heroic moments of history, refused to go along with the perjury, saying he could not accuse an innocent man even to save his own life. Two hours later, he mounted the gallows and was hanged.

On the matter of suborning perjury, our masters in Washington evidently get a free pass every time. Bill Clinton was actually a small-time amateur at this tactic, having used it to wriggle out of his nasty little incident with Monica and the legendary cigar. His Republican predecessors, however, tried and failed to suborn perjury in order to implicate someone in alleged murders in which neither the bodies nor the names of the victims were ever produced. Jefferson Davis actually wanted to be put on trial for treason, confident he could prove that individual states had every right to secede from the union. The Feds, reviewing the mountains of evidence in the writings of the Founding Fathers indicating the states did indeed have just such a right, never brought Davis to trial.

These are just two examples from our illustrious history of military tribunals. I’m sure that, with a little research, one could come up with many more examples to demonstrate that military tribunals are set up with the specific purpose of arriving at the "right" predetermined verdict.

Paul Weber’s novel, Transfiguration, is available at http://www.xlibris.com/Transfiguration.html.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: constitution; dixielist; juryofpeers; justice; kangaroocourt; militarytribunals; righttojurytrial; starchamber
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One of the great trends in the United States is that of the breaking of the shackles of misinformation of the insular, monolithic, self-serving media-government cartel. At the core of this massive plutocratic apparatus is the Lincoln myth. It is time to out "Honest" Abe.

From Timeline of Andersonville:

August 10, 1864

Confederate Agent of Exchange Judge Robert Ould notifies Union authorities that the South will unilaterally release a number of prisoners of war from Camp Sumter if transportation is provided to take them home; however, two months will pass before the United States Government acts on this proposal.

August 21, 1864

Union Brigadier General T. Seymour, appointed by the United States War Department to investigate military prison conditions in the South, reports to Federal headquarters that the wisest course of action is to allow Union prisoners of war to remain confined at Andersonville, and not to initiate a prisoner exchange.

April 17, 1865

Brigadier General and Union Commander of Jacksonville, Florida, E. P. Scammon, having previously agreed to exchange prisoners, today stops 2,500 Andersonville inmates on route to Jacksonville and directs them to return to Andersonville, under orders of U. S. Major General Quincy A. Gillmore, who kills the exchange.

============================================================

For a closer look at the travesty of the government sanction of Wirz, with gory details such as the mutilation of his body, see these links:

WIRZ'S FINAL LETTERS

FEDERAL PERJURY

JAMES MADISON PAGE

THE TRUTH ABOUT ANDERSONVILLE

1 posted on 04/07/2002 4:54:28 PM PDT by one2many
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To: BurkeCalhounDabney
"But pitifulest of all is the sight of those former comrades of Jackson and Lee, who are willing to live and be basely consoled by the lures of the oppressor, and who thus outlive not only their country, but their own manhood. Yes, beside that sight the grave of Jackson is luminous with joy." --R. L. Dabney
2 posted on 04/07/2002 4:57:35 PM PDT by one2many
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To: stainlessbanner
The plutocratic diktat means this holds true today:

(American public schools are)… publicly-financed dungeons of academic sorrows where kids are forced to comply with state mandates biased toward non-achievers, and are put on the honor roll for learning their ABC’s and memorizing chemistry symbols. –Karen DeCoster

3 posted on 04/07/2002 5:05:56 PM PDT by one2many
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To: shuckmaster
Gig 'em suh!
4 posted on 04/07/2002 5:07:02 PM PDT by one2many
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To: one2many;aomagrat; Moose4;ConfederateMissouri;Ligeia;CWRWinger;stainlessbanner;Colt .45;PeaRidge...
Dixie Ping!
5 posted on 04/07/2002 5:12:16 PM PDT by shuckmaster
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To: shuckmaster
Back at ya! Thanks for the ping!
6 posted on 04/07/2002 5:29:30 PM PDT by TomServo
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To: one2many
Thanks for the good post. I book marked this one.

'Honest Abe' was not so honest and virtuous after all.

Now what do we do with the Lincoln Memorial? Sell it to Illinois and have it trucked off? The Feds have a lot tied up in that 'white elephant'.

7 posted on 04/07/2002 5:44:52 PM PDT by CWRWinger
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To: CWRWinger
It should be designated as the national urinal.
8 posted on 04/07/2002 6:01:28 PM PDT by one2many
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To: one2many
Other crimes against
freedom and humanity:

"Lincoln used war to destroy the U.S. Constitution in order to establish a powerful central government. He [Lincoln] illegally suspended the writ of habeas corpus; launched a military invasion without consent of Congress; blockaded Southern ports without declaring war; imprisoned without warrant or trial some 13,000 Northern citizens who opposed his policies; arrested dozens of newspaper editors and owners and, in some cases, had federal soldiers destroy their printing presses; censored all telegraph communication; nationalized the railroads; created three new states (Kansas, Nevada, and West Virginia) without the formal consent of the citizens of those states, an act that Lincoln?s own attorney general thought was unconstitutional; ordered Federal troops to interfere with Northern elections; deported a member of Congress from Ohio after he criticized Lincoln's unconstitutional behavior; confiscated private property; confiscated firearms in violation of the Second Amendment; and eviscerated the Ninth and Tenth Amendments." --Paul Craig Roberts

9 posted on 04/07/2002 6:08:23 PM PDT by one2many
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To: one2many
Yes, that's a possibility.

I was thinking of turning it into a large bird cage and stock it with rare birds like crows and pigeons.

10 posted on 04/07/2002 6:09:40 PM PDT by CWRWinger
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To: non-sequitur;rdf;ditto;davidjquackenbush;x
Here we go again.
11 posted on 04/07/2002 6:11:54 PM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: CWRWinger
Add some buzzards and make it into a guano factory.
That would be a very fitting tribute to the man.
12 posted on 04/07/2002 6:12:41 PM PDT by one2many
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To: Twodees; stand watie; smolensk; billbears; Aurelius; lentulusgracchus
Guano factory bump!
13 posted on 04/07/2002 6:14:27 PM PDT by one2many
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Calling in the other pinkos Wlat?

Let's make sure that everyone reading this knows who and what you and your buddyroos are right off the bat shall we?

Let's give a big ole PINKO ALERT!!
Let's let these good people on this thread know how you and your fellow travelers vote.
Here is your reply to Leesylvanian from another thread:

==================================

Leesylvanian:

Keep in mind when dealing with WP that you're dealing with a man who favors the government's rights/authority over those of the people. He voted for Clinton twice. 'Nuff said!

Wlat (WhiskeyPapa):

Well, I've never said I voted for Clinton twice, so I am glad you will be glad to post a retraction.What I said was that I had never voted for a Republican presidential candidate. I voted for John Anderson in 1980. In '84 I voted Democratic. Same in '88. In '92 I DID vote for Clinton, although I was for Perot until he went batty. In'96 I didn't vote. In '00, I did vote for Al Gore. --Walt

780 posted on 2/28/02 10:49 AM Pacific by WhiskeyPapa [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 766 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/634252/posts?page=780#780

14 posted on 04/07/2002 6:19:01 PM PDT by one2many
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To: one2many
LOL!
15 posted on 04/07/2002 6:21:40 PM PDT by CWRWinger
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To: WhiskeyPapa
She posted this same article two weeks ago. Methinks it won't last long.
16 posted on 04/07/2002 6:29:12 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: one2many
This is the usual bullsh*t from an amateur historian who has not done his homework.

The first use of a military tribunal on American soil was General Washington's command to try British Major Andre (the man to pursuaded Benedict Arnold tp betray the Unites States and join the British Army). General Washington, after the trial, offered to exchange Major Andre for Benedict Arnold. British General Clinton refused. Andre was then hanged.

A competent history of the military tribunals in the United States would have mentioned all the wars in which they were used. It would also have mentioned the two Supremem Court cases concerned with such trials -- Millgan during the Civil War, and Quirin during WW II.

This article is not a "history" of anything. It is a piece of garbage that no competent writer would have put his name to, and no competent editor would have published.

Congressman Billybob

Click here to fight Shays-Meehan.

Next up: "This Column is about Truth."

17 posted on 04/07/2002 6:30:34 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob
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To: one2many
Thank you sir, for a wonderful post. God bless our Sioux brothers.
18 posted on 04/07/2002 6:31:50 PM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: WhiskeyPapa
I would say, ignore this one. I doubt that many freepers will line up to devour this slop, except for the usual "hate Lincoln, hate America" crowd.

If folks do want to think about these things, start with David Herbert Donald's Lincoln, pp392-395.

Paul Craig Roberts, a friend an ally of mine on Affirmative action, is suffering a temporary delusion on this business. Let him see the facts, and the mendacity of DiLorenzo, and all this shall pass.

We only have so much time to give to fanatics and deluded folks.

Cheers,

Richard F.

19 posted on 04/07/2002 6:35:09 PM PDT by rdf
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To: Non-Sequitur
PINK LIAR BUMP!

==============================

Beheading the "Great Messiah"
by Karen De Coster

Abraham Lincoln, as most of us were told in Mr. Smith’s 9th-grade history class, was a God-sent savior, a brilliant, articulate, and diversity-loving individual, and the Messiah of the great "Union." Most of us were brainwashed on enchanting quotations from the "great man from the little log cabin." This week celebrates his birthday, and may he be remembered for what he truly was. So let me begin a short and biased Lincoln diatribe, and may it rattle Abe’s grave and leave him forever unsettled.

Lincoln was a ruthless dictator of the most contemptible sort. A conniving and manipulative man, and a scoundrel at heart, he was nowhere near what old guard historians would have us believe.

Lincoln has been transformed into the indomitable icon of the American Union. But yet, this beast ruled the country by presidential decree, exercised dictatorial powers over a free people, and proceeded to wage war without a declaration from Congress. Lincoln blocked Southern shipping ports, justifying his actions by saying "he would enforce all laws and collect all revenues due the North." The blockades were an act of war. He set his Northern Army upon the South at Fort Sumter, and set in motion one of the most brutal attacks ever upon freedom by maneuvering the South into firing the first shot at their Northern aggressors.

However, Mr. Smith’s textbook would have us believe that Lincoln was a preservationist of sorts, a man dedicated to preserving the grandeur of State ideals. Most 9th-graders don’t have the intellect to ask what is so glorious about State ideals. Instead, they absorb just enough to make it into ignorant adulthood. In fact, if they had questioned these teachings, they would have discovered that Lincoln was a consummate con man, manipulator, and a State-serving miscreant.

In the march through Georgia during Lincoln’s War of Northern Aggression, he and Sherman carved out a murderous campaign, maiming innocent civilians and setting a precedent for the next century’s bloody genocides that followed. A fine exemplar was he, the Communists might say.

As if the pure evil of the war to subjugate the Southern states struggling for independence was not unscrupulous enough, Lincoln was hardly the watchman of the black race as portrayed by Mr. Smith’s ninth-grade history text, either. Lincoln had no fondness for the black man, and in fact, often spoke with the candor of that which would make him a modern-day racist of satanic proportions.

As Lincoln scholar Tom DiLorenzo points out, Lincoln believed there was an inherent inequality between the black and white race, and held a conviction that a "superior position" should be assigned to the white man over the black man due to this political and social inequality. David Duke was forever browbeaten for muttering anything even resembling this.

Any good historian at least understands that his goal was not to free the slaves, as DiLorenzo correctly states. In 1862, Lincoln published a letter stating, "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union."

Lincoln was the darling candidate of the moneyed industrialists of the North. At the core of his political tenets was a government of high import taxes, and his Republican party, whom he lead, passed the Morrill tariff into law soon after taking office. To quote DiLorenzo, Lincoln "even promised in his First Inaugural Address to launch an invasion of any state that failed to collect its share of tariffs." He was committing himself to collecting customs in the South, even if that meant they would secede. The free-market economics of the South were up for assault.

Lincoln signed ten more tariff-raising bills throughout his agonizing administration. He manipulated the American public into the first income tax, he handed out huge land grants and monetary subsidies to transcontinental railroads (corporate welfare), and he took the nation off the gold standard, allowing the government to have absolute control over the monetary system. Then, he virtually nationalized the banking system under the National Currency Acts in order to establish a machine for printing new money at will and to provide cheap credit for the business elite. This mercantilist tyrant ushered in central banking, our greatest economic curse to this day. Furthermore, his "New Army" and the slaughter effort on the South put into motion an unprecedented profusion of federal coercion against free citizens, both North and South. By way of conscription, he assembled a vast army by presidential decree, an act of flagrant misconduct which drafted individuals into slavery to the federal government. Additionally, any war dissenters or advocates of a peaceful settlement with the South were jailed, and, as even Mr. Smith knows, Habeus Corpus was abolished for the duration of the war. He then tossed into the slammer as many as 30,000 civilians WITHOUT due process of law for reasons of criticizing the Lincoln administration, and suppressed HUNDREDS of newspapers that did not support his war effort.

After his Army stopped secession in its tracks, Lincoln created provisional courts sympathetic to Northern aggression, invented the office of Military Governor, and issued the Emancipation Proclamation, which became a propaganda tool for historians in later years, though it did not free the slaves in Northern-controlled areas.

All said, Lincoln was a ruthless dictator and he set the precedent for what is known as the "Imperial Presidency." He was the most evil, damaging, aggressive, abominable, and destructive president ever to defy American liberty. Happy Birthday, Abe.

February 12, 2001

Karen De Coster is a politically incorrect CPA, and an MA student in economics at Walsh College in Michigan.

Karen De Coster Archives

20 posted on 04/07/2002 6:47:44 PM PDT by one2many
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To: Congressman Billybob
HEY SMART ONE; SHOW ME WHERE THE AUTHOR SAYS
THIS IS THE "FIRST" USE OF MILITARY TRIBUNALS.
21 posted on 04/07/2002 6:49:07 PM PDT by one2many
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To: Congressman Billybob
Congressman, I'll agree with you on about everything else...except lincoln. Milligan verified the unconstitutionality of lincoln's actions (not to mention Merryman in 1861, but some don't like talking about that case either) but that still does not excuse this

Almost 22,000 Northerners died in Southern camps during the war, compared to the 26,000 Southerners who died in Northern camps, despite the fact that the North did not suffer any blockade or Total War tactics, as had the South

You don't hear about northern prisons, nor will many yankees around here mention them. Oh, but you'll hear about Andersonville. If you read the history books, you'd think Andersonville was about the only d#mn prison in the whole war, but 26,000 of my countrymen (and yes we were a separate and equal nation of sovereign states with a Constitution, a President, and a Congress) died in those prisons. The fact is that Walt and others refuse to admit that this nation was built on secession, the Founders not only discussed but several planned for secession less than 40 years after the War of Independence, and West Point even taught secession as a legal means of leaving the nation to many of the generals on both sides of the conflict

While many would have interesting and ingenious ideas of what should be done with lincoln memorial, personally I think it should stand as a memorial to when this nation left the path of a true Federal Republic to move towards a National Democracy and put us where we are today

22 posted on 04/07/2002 6:58:53 PM PDT by billbears
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To: billbears
...yes we were a separate and equal nation of sovereign states with a Constitution, a President, and a Congress...

But no Supreme Court. Couldn't let the law get in the way, could we? After all Jefferson Davis himself said:

"...the true and only test is to enquire whether the law is intended and calculated to carry out the object...If the answer be in the affirmative, the law is constitutional."

With an attitude like that who needs a Supreme Court?

23 posted on 04/07/2002 7:20:11 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: Congressman Billybob
HEY BUCKY; I AM STILL WAITING FOR
YOU TO SHOW ME WHERE THE AUTHOR YOU
SAVAGE SAID THIS WAS THE "FIRST" USE OF TRIBUNALS.

WHERE ARE YA BUCKY? DON'T TELL ME YOU ARE ANOTHER ONE
OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT SWOOP IN, TELL A LIE, AND THEN FAIL TO OWN UP TO IT.

25 posted on 04/07/2002 7:30:07 PM PDT by one2many
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To: ConfederateMissouri
We need only show where Wlat & Co. are coming from.
The folks here with open and inquisitive minds can connect the dots.
26 posted on 04/07/2002 7:33:32 PM PDT by one2many
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To: noumenon
"My first desire is for American liberty; the second desire for American Union." –Patrick Henry
27 posted on 04/07/2002 7:46:55 PM PDT by one2many
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To: WhiskeyPapa
“…this generation has been indoctrinated in a pack of lies by the moral sappers of the 1960s nesting in our schools. To them, Western Civilization is an abomination. The great enemies of the West today are its over-privileged children who are undermining this greatest civilization the world has ever seen. If we should be ashamed of anything, it is for having twice elected one of them as president. Bill Clinton could not carry the sandals, let alone the sword, of Godfrey of Bouillon." -–Pat Buchanan on you and your pinko butt buddies
28 posted on 04/07/2002 7:51:15 PM PDT by one2many
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To: PistolPaknMama
bump

On 13 November 1860, the Bangor (Maine) Daily Union defended southern secessionists by explaining that the Union "depends for its continuance on the free consent and will of the sovereign people" of each state, and "when that consent and will is withdrawn on either part, their Union is gone." If military force is used, then a state can only be held "as a subject province," and can never be "a co-equal member of the American Union."

29 posted on 04/07/2002 8:58:15 PM PDT by one2many
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To: billbears
I am mindful of the Northern prisons for Confederates. One of those was in St. Mary's County in southern Maryland. There is a monument there to the men who died in that prison.

There wasn't space for their names. Or maybe they didn't know all their names. The monument lists the states that the dead came from, and the number of dead prisoners from each state. And every state is listed, including Massachusetts. On the four sides of that largely forgotten obelisk in a corner of Maryland, the fratricidal nature of that war is quietly clear.

It is also clear in the room where I write this. On the wall are deguerrotypes of the two men I was named for. One was a Colonel in the Confederate States Army, the other was a Major in the Union Cavalry.

Concerning Lincoln's violations of the Constitution during the war, Milligan vioded the conviction of a Southern sympathizer from Indiana, before a military tribunal. Merryman concerned Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus. The latter problem was cured when Congress approved the suspension of the writ, as the Constitution provides.

And Yes, I am aware of and thoroughly agree with the point that most of the Framers believed that states could freely leave the Union, as freely as they had joined it.

Congressman Billybob

Click here to fight Shays-Meehan.

Latest: "This Column is About Truth."

30 posted on 04/07/2002 9:32:29 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob
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To: one2many
i am privledged to call COL Heinrich Wirz,of the Swiss Republic's Army staff, a close friend.

his greatuncle,CPT Wurtz, was murdered by the damnedyankees for 4 reasons:

1. they wanted to hang SOMEONE, guilty or NOT &

2. he was available &

3. he was a Roman Catholic &

4. he was a Swiss citizen, i.e. a foreigner.

as usual, the damnyankees care NOTHING for truth,honor and/or decency!

as for the lincoln memorial, i don't go near the place, lest i gag. washington, dc is the only capitol i can think of that has a memorial to a war criminal!

for a FREE dixie REPUBLIC,sw

31 posted on 04/07/2002 10:33:04 PM PDT by stand watie
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To: stand watie
So should it be converted to a giant urinal or a guano factory?
32 posted on 04/07/2002 10:58:44 PM PDT by one2many
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To: one2many
it should, in a more just world, be torn down. to me this is NOT a joke;after all, the statues to lenin & stalin are GONE!

for a FREE dixie REPUBLIC,sw

33 posted on 04/08/2002 9:35:16 AM PDT by stand watie
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To: billbears
Bump.
34 posted on 04/08/2002 9:51:49 AM PDT by 4CJ
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To: one2many
I vote for guano factory. You know I've watched Stroker Ace a couple of times and I hear you can make jewelry out of that stuff. We could even sell it up north and to those folks who have decided to move down here and grace us with their presence. LOL!!
35 posted on 04/08/2002 10:25:34 AM PDT by billbears
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: stand watie
it should, in a more just world, be torn down.

Yeah but the guano factory idea will remind
future Americans of just what a sh*tbird he was.....

37 posted on 04/08/2002 4:27:26 PM PDT by one2many
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To: ConfederateMissouri
If they are the best the opposition has, the victory is already ours.

Verily!

38 posted on 04/08/2002 4:28:59 PM PDT by one2many
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To: billbears
I like the guano factory too; see my post above ;^)
39 posted on 04/08/2002 4:29:51 PM PDT by one2many
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To: sheltonmac
ping
40 posted on 04/08/2002 4:30:36 PM PDT by one2many
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To: smolensk
bump
41 posted on 04/08/2002 7:24:49 PM PDT by one2many
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To: shuckmaster
"While serving in Congress, Lincoln was an outspoken supporter of the Marxist/socialist revolutions in Europe going on at the time. In 1861, Honest Abe sought to free the South from itself. Four years, billions of dollars in property loss and debt, and 600,000 lost lives later, Lincoln got his wish and our modern day federal government in Washington is the fruit of his labor. Don't everybody cheer at once." --MATTHEW CHANCEY
42 posted on 04/16/2002 6:36:04 AM PDT by one2many
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To: stainlessbanner
bump (and a classic (below)

There were not enough of them.
That is all.

Honoring sacrifice in defense of home, hearth and conviction, however ancient the memory of that sacrifice, is a stubborn attribute of the human heart. This is particularly true when sacrifice is spent in a lost cause. John W. Thomason Jr., a senior Marine officer and novelist, expressed the South´s devotion to the memory of its fallen sons eloquently on the eve of World War II, as he reflected on the timber of the men of a previous century who enshrined a banner in the hearts of their progeny. Those who profess not to understand the stubborn Southern devotion to the St. Andrew´s Cross could profitably study his words:

"It was never a homogeneous army. The Tidewater regiments of Virginia with ... their cavalier dash were not quite the same as the sturdy blue-light soldiers from the Valley whom Stonewall Jackson led down to First Manassas. They were plain and simple men from the hill farms of North Carolina and Tennessee ... who hardened under fire as steel in a furnace. South Carolina sent high-nosed heroes ... hard-dying men in any company. In the hearts of Alabama and Georgia soldiers there smouldered always an angry hell, burning brightest in battle. From Texas and Mississippi and Arkansas came the tall hunters who broke the cane and bridled the western waters; bear killers and Indian fighters regarded as savage and dreadful by civilized patriots called to arms out of rock-fenced New England pastures. Louisiana sent those famous cosmopolitan Zouaves called the Louisiana Tigers ... and there were Florida troops who, undismayed in fire, stampeded the night after Fredericksburg, when the Aurora Borealis snapped and crackled over that field of the frozen dead hard by the Rappahannock ...

"One thing they had in common a belief in Southern rights. That one of those rights involved the dark institution of chattel slavery is not pertinent because few of them owned slaves or hoped to own them. That tariff and free trade entered into it is not pertinent, either: These were pastorals, and their economics were bounded by their fields and woodlots ... Those men believed in something. They counted life a light thing to lay down in the faith they bore. They were terrible in battle. They were generous in victory. They rose up from defeat to fight again, and while they lived they were formidable. There were not enough of them. That is all."

43 posted on 04/16/2002 6:45:51 AM PDT by one2many
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
"Keep steady in the view of the great principles for which you contend. The safety of your homes and the lives of all you hold dear depend upon your courage and exertions. Let each man resolve to be victorious, and that the right of self government, liberty and peace shall find him a defender." ---General Robert E. Lee to his men, 1861

”I saw in States' Rights the only availing check upon the absolutism of the sovereign will, and secession filled me with hope, not as the destruction but as the redemption of Democracy . . . I deemed that you [i.e., Lee] were fighting the battles of our liberty, our progress, and our civilization; and I mourn for the stake which was lost at Richmond more deeply than I rejoice over that which was saved at Waterloo.” –Lord Acton to General Lee

"The Gettysburg speech was at once the shortest and the most famous oration in American history... the highest emotion reduced to a few poetical phrases. Lincoln himself never even remotely approached it. It is genuinely stupendous. But let us not forget that it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense. Think of the argument in it. Put it into the cold words of everyday. The doctrine is simply this: that the Union soldiers who died at Gettysburg sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination -- that government of the people, by the people, for the people, should not perish from the earth. IT IS DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE ANYTHING MORE UNTRUE. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves." -- H.L. Mencken

44 posted on 04/16/2002 6:54:38 AM PDT by one2many
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To: one2many
Great post - thanks for sharing one2many.
45 posted on 04/16/2002 7:24:04 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: one2many

"Let us however suppose the Southern Secession to have been altogether illegal and uncalled for, or rather let us turn away our eyes from the question altogether, and suppose that the causes of the struggle are veiled in obscurity. Can we find anything in the circumstances of the war itself which may induce us to take one side rather than the other? Those circumstances have been very remarkable. This contest has been signalized by the exhibition of some of the best and some of the worst qualities that war has ever brought out."

"It has produced a recklessness of human life; a contempt of principles, a disregard of engagements; a wasteful expenditure almost unprecedented; a widely extended corruption among the classes who have any connection with the government or the war; an enormous debt, so enormous as to point to almost certain repudiation; the headlong adoption of the most lawless measures; the public faith scandalously violated both towards friends and enemies; the liberty of the citizen at the mercy of arbitrary power; the liberty of the press abolished: the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act; illegal imprisonments; midnight arrests; punishments inflicted without trial; the courts of law controlled by satellites of government; elections carried on under military supervision; a ruffianism both of word and action eating deep into the country; contractors and stock jobbers suddenly amassing enormous fortunes out of the public misery, and ostentatiously parading their ill-gotten wealth in the most vulgar display of luxury; the most brutal inhumanity in the conduct of the war itself; outrages upon the defenceless, upon women, children and prisoners; plunder, rapine, devastation, murder,--all the old horrors of barbarous warfare, which Europe is beginning to be ashamed of, and new refinements of cruelty thereto added, by way of illustrating the advance of knowledge."

"It has also produced qualities and phenomena the opposite of these. Ardour and devotedness of patriotism which might, alone be enough to make us proud of the century to which we belong; a unanimity such as has probably never been witnessed before; a wisdom in legislation; a stainless good faith under extremely difficult circumstances; a clear appreciation of danger, coupled with a determination to face it to the uttermost; a resolute abnegation of power in favor of leaders in whom those who selected them could trust; with an equally resolute determination to reserve the liberty of criticism, and not to allow those trusted leaders to go one inch beyond their legal powers: a heroism in the field and behind the defences of besieged cities, which can match anything that history has to show; a wonderful helpfulness in supplying needs and creating fresh resources; a chivalrous and romantic daring, which recalls the middle ages: a most scrupulous regard for the rights of hostile property; a tender consideration for the vanquished and the weak; a determination not to be provoked into retaliation by the most brutal injuries, which makes one wonder, recollecting what those injuries have been, whether in their place, one would have done as they have done."

* * * And the remarkable circumstance is * * * that all the good qualities have been on the one side, and all the bad ones on the other."
Lothian, William Schomberg Robert Kerr, The Confederate Secession, Edinburgh, London, W. Blackwood and sons, 1864.

Guess which side is which.

46 posted on 04/16/2002 7:38:15 AM PDT by 4CJ
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To: one2many
Those men believed in something. They counted life a light thing to lay down in the faith they bore. They were terrible in battle. They were generous in victory. They rose up from defeat to fight again, and while they lived they were formidable. There were not enough of them. That is all.

Bump.

47 posted on 04/16/2002 7:43:02 AM PDT by 4CJ
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Portion of Address by Maj. Thomas Woodward (To the Survivors' Association of the Sixth Regiment, UCV at Chester, Aug. 9, 1883.)

The War is over and peace and reconciliation are at least visible in the offing. There are, therefore, still duties and services for the old soldier as sacred and important as those which you rendered in the past. It is peculiarly our province to contribute by any and all decent means to the glory and the prosperity, but more especially to the reconciliation, of the two sections of this our common country. I say it is peculiarly our duty to fraternize because the recipients of injury are always in a better position and more inclined to forgive and forget than are the perpetrators of malignant wrongs.

Your conduct thus far has been most admirable; that reputation for chivalry and heroism, the property of Southern men before your day, has been amply vindicated, and without spot or blemish passed to the generations who are to come after us. Since the war you have sublimely illustrated by the dignity and fortitude of your conduct the advantages of character, of sentiment, and of soldierly principles in adversity. But there is a danger and another duty of which I must speak, a duty not only to the living, but to that grand voiceless multitude of gallant martyrs whose characters and memories are so dear to us.

The attempt is being made to pervert history by obscuring incidents and falsifying facts which tend to make up the Southern theory of this issue. It is the commonest of human attributes which makes us seek to justify our own excesses by maligning the motives and characters of those who differ with us. Sherman, at Atlanta, whilst driving to the woods the widows and orphans of the gallant men who fell in unequal combat before him, illustrated this principle when he charged that the "war was begun in error and continued in pride." Others, from the same motives, assert that we went to war to defend and perpetuate slavery. And others charge that we were captious rebels and heartless traitors to the best government in the world, and fought to gratify the blood-thirsty and ferocious instincts of our Southern nature. And herein lie the difficulties of the situation, for our late adversaries possess greater facilities for printing and disseminating their statements than we have.

Our duty is plain, then. Let our records be sacredly preserved, and our statements and views transmitted from sire to son, not for purposes of disloyalty, but in order that substantial material shall be on hand for that unbiased historian of the future, who is to separate the gold from the dross, and gaining the ear of enlightened Christendom, not only state the true causes of our unhappy war, but define the status of the two parties engaged in it -- the one of whom was right and occupied the position of self-defense, the other in the wrong and waging a relentless war of conquest and subjugation. Noble old comrades, I bid you adieu. Let no feelings of shame for your deeds in the past disturb you, and no regrets creep in save for the loss of our cause and for the fall of our noble dead.

May prosperity and happiness attend you, and the frosts of many more winters descend gently upon your already whitened heads.

48 posted on 04/16/2002 8:33:18 AM PDT by one2many
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To: one2many
Our duty is plain, then. Let our records be sacredly preserved, and our statements and views transmitted from sire to son, not for purposes of disloyalty, but in order that substantial material shall be on hand for that unbiased historian of the future, who is to separate the gold from the dross, and gaining the ear of enlightened Christendom, not only state the true causes of our unhappy war, but define the status of the two parties engaged in it -- the one of whom was right and occupied the position of self-defense, the other in the wrong and waging a relentless war of conquest and subjugation. Noble old comrades, I bid you adieu. Let no feelings of shame for your deeds in the past disturb you, and no regrets creep in save for the loss of our cause and for the fall of our noble dead.

Does that explain why so many southern courthoues were burned and records destroyed?

Deo Vindice.

49 posted on 04/16/2002 8:51:33 AM PDT by 4CJ
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
bump
50 posted on 04/21/2002 5:31:30 PM PDT by one2many
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