What is Creationism?

2000

[Nebullis]

I'm curious what you think the problem for Christ would be though. Personally, I'm not sure where the problem would lie.

The infinite in a finite incarnation.

[Physicist]

IF there is an infinite Source (God) from which comes our existence (in its likeness), how can there be a "creation" or start point?

When we talk about creation, in science or in religion, we are talking about the observable universe, which comprises everything we can in principle observe or travel to, which is finite. That may or may not be a subset of everything that exists, which may or may not be infinite.

[Hajman]

The infinite in a finite incarnation.

The infinite properties of a fractal in a finite space is how I would compare the problem to, in order to begin an attempt of resolving it.

-The Hajman-

[Physicist]

Furthermore, the Manilow spake:

"And I wrote some Rock 'n' Roll, so you can move."

Yea, verily, the Manilow is a prerequisite even for Newtonian mechanics!

[BMCDA]

IF there is an infinite Source (God) from which comes our existence (in its likeness), how can there be a "creation" or start point? Infinite means without limit - no beginning and no ending, forever. We must have always existed and always will exist just progressing through different environments and experiences as we change or "evolve".

Well, I don't think that we (I assume you mean us humans) always existed and always will exist. The only thing that I think always existed and always will exist is our universe (we have compelling evidence that the universe exists for ca. 15 billion years; when or whether it ends at all I don't know).

How that process occurs would be based upon the timeless laws of a Principle which humans perceive as "God".

Of course you can call the laws of the universe "God" but this "God" is certainly not a personal deity and therefore calling them "God" would be redundant IMO.

[Semper]

There's still a bit of a problem for the Christ figure

Why? The Christ figure could be a being which is aware of the infinite truths of which we are ignorant. If we are trapped in the concept of a finite existence, it would take someone from outside that concept to free us from its limitations.

[longshadow]

LOL... and I just read a post on how religions evolve.

If you do a web search, and track down the details of the Cargo Cult, it documents what I was alluding to. The best part of the story, however, is the name of the Prophet: "John Frum." It is derived from the pidgin English the natives learned to speak working as laborers unloading American military transport aircraft. When they asked the American's what their names were, more often than not, the GI would reply: "John, from America."

John Frum.

[longshadow]

how can there be a "creation" or start point?

Given the observed expansion of the Universe, and the theory of General Relativity, the question is how can there NOT be a "beginning"? If you run the observed expansion of the Universe backwards the inexorable conclusion is that it all started about 15 billion years ago last Thursday.

[longshadow]

Yea, verily, the Manilow is a prerequisite even for Newtonian mechanics!

You mean Newton stood on MANILOW'S shoulders?

[Hunble]

2452373.260185 days ago, but who is counting.

[PatrickHenry]

Cloaked. Lurking ...

[Hajman]

Cloaked. Lurking ...

Klingon alert!

-The Hajman-

[PatrickHenry]

Klingon alert!

I told you, I'm cloaked. You don't know I'm here.

[Hajman]

I told you, I'm cloaked. You don't know I'm here.

Matter creates gravitation fluxes. Set up the deflector dish to detect these gravitation anomalies. There you are!

-The Hajman-

[Scully]

Hurry up and post before the thread is locked.

Count me in :)

[VadeRetro]

Cloaked. Lurking ...

I'm drinking an invisibility potion, taking all my clothes off, and heading out for some fun. I'll tell you all about it when I get back.

[Semper]

The infinite and finite arn't necessarily exclusive.

Granted, there can be an infinite number of finite circumstances but the ultimate nature of existence must be one or the other.

You can also place an infinite 3 dimensional space in a finite 4 dimensional space.

If infinite means without limit, that must include all dimensions - all aspects of existence. Being infinite within finiteness is a contradiction of terms.

A finite reality is like a flat world reality. When it is accepted as real, it defines a limited experience; but as our awareness expands, that promotes a reality closer to the ultimate truth and allows us an experience which is more full and free.

[Hajman]

Granted, there can be an infinite number of finite circumstances but the ultimate nature of existence must be one or the other.

I would theorize the ultimate nature of existance (if there's one that God exists with), would be infinite. We would then be a limited section of that existance.

If infinite means without limit, that must include all dimensions - all aspects of existence. Being infinite within finiteness is a contradiction of terms.

Actually, infinite means without limit to a specified property. For example, a fractal can have a finite area, while it's outside is of infinite length.

A finite reality is like a flat world reality. When it is accepted as real, it defines a limited experience; but as our awareness expands, that promotes a reality closer to the ultimate truth and allows us an experience which is more full and free.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here..

-The Hajman-

[Nebullis]

Klingon alert!

Uh-Oh. Are they part of the Grand Conspiracy too?

[Semper]

If you run the observed expansion of the Universe backwards the inexorable conclusion is that it all started about 15 billion years ago

If there was absolutely NOTHING before the "big bang", there could not have been a big bang. You can't get something from nothing. Something had to exist and in some form and something had to act upon that environment before the (humanly) observable universe began its evolutionary journey to this point.