National Museum of the American Indian Hides Genocide

New California Media Online | Dec. 6, 1999 | Carter Camp

[Legume]

National Museum of the American Indian Hides Genocide Ponca Nation, By Carter Camp

Seems we rez-based Indians always are slow to react to events taking place in Washington D.C., by the time we wake up the damage is done. The new "Redskins" stadium is one place we could have made a stand if we were serious about the mascot issue. Another cultural rip-off being foisted on our people is the National Museum of American Indian going up in D.C..

I once warned about about it in a letter carried by Indian Country Today in the early nineties, but a small voice is easily drowned out when millions of dollars are being spent and the voice of the Great WhiteFather anoints Indian leaders.

For a decade or more the Smithsonian fundraising machine has gone merrily along, draining much needed funds away from theIndian community and diverting Americas attention away from the economic, cultural and legal devastation going on across our homelands. Our leaders are grinning and shuffling into line to endorse another whitemans dream, and our artists and writers can't seem to wait for a grant, the ultimate pat on the head fromthe hand of power.

Am I the only Indian who doesn't trust the graverobbing Smithsonian or who questions the basic premise of the use of this unique space on the National Mall?

The only good thing I can see coming from this place is it probably will have an Indian-artist designed front entrance, properly blessed by a medicine man, that we can use to protest the various acts of genocide as they are carried out and we ourselves become artifacts. Just what we Indians need, a museum to celebrate our "disappearance" (albeit with a nod to our survivance) beforewe're quite dead! All is normal in Indian Country.

Once upon a time there were two open spaces for museums on the National Mall. African Americans coveted a space as did Hispanic, Jewish and Native Americans. Many interest groups, from Veterans to the D.A.R., also wanted the rare spaces. Congress in its wisdom awarded one site to a very politically powerful (and deserving) Jewish applicant and another to the very politically powerful Smithsonian Institution, their 'keeper of the loot.'

Then the "fool the Indian" process began and it proved to be very easy. Just put an Indian face on it(out of the vast Smithsonian collection) and it magically becomes an "Indian" project. With a shamans wave, shape changes and crypt-worms become our friends, close enough to be Indian-endorsed as keepers of our precious past and tellers of our history.

Is it merely my imagination that over the generations of conquest and looting, enumerating and studying, digging and classifying, collecting and recording, the Smithsonain might have learned and be USING our own sacred secrets to blind our leaders to the real plan? What else explains the lack of a desenting voice as our leaders and artists shamble all in a line?

Indians stand REDLY in the way of the American dream. For centuriesAmericans have dreamed we are "vanishing" and have tried hard to make it true. The Smithsonian was created to enclose us in their white past and to chronicle our demise, what medicine has made them our friends? Where has Coyote been lately?

Contrast the two new museums and you can see how they are used to support a conquerors, cleansed view of history: For the Jewish museum no thought at all was given to using it to show the world ancient Jewish culture and artifacts. They could have displayed scenes of ancient Jewish life -- hunting, tanning hides and pastoral living. Like an Indian museum. It would have been beautiful and easy for people to enjoy. It wasn't done that way for one reason...The Jewish people were in charge and they decided for themselves what aspect of their history to show the world. They decided with one voice to use the rare space as a shield to protect their people against a repeat of the Nazi holocaust.

Jewish politicians fundedand protected Jewish intellectuals, artists, historians, Rabbis andsurvivors as they crafted a way to commemorate their dead and to use their past to protect their future. They refused to allow the dreams of others to distort the truth of their horror, and now their museum is a powerful testament to a Jewish dream, not a gentile revision of reality.

Our space, and the worlds window to our Nations, was turned over to the Smithsonian Institution to enshrine the lie of 'manifest destiny' and the historical inevitability of the American Holocaust. Americas museums have always been a prime purveyor of the big lies of American history, now the largest and worst is given an army of non-Indian historians, anthros, romance writers and a couple of Indian scouts, to define us to the world.

THEY decided with one voice NOT to use our rare and precious space as a shield of truth against the American Holocaust, or to prevent the conclusion of its evil purpose against my people. We still die, our sacred sites still are paved over, our dead dug up, our children stolen andmis-educated. Missionaries search the jungle for the last of us. It hurts me to think about the many atrocities we may have been able to prevent had we Indian traditionalists, (for whom the American Holocaust still burns freshly) been able to tell atrue history of our own people. I envy my Jewish relatives for serving their people so well. Our Indian leaders haveseen fit to sell our history so the Whiteman can bend it to fit the myth they use to avoid histories judgement... Better for tourism in Washington D.C. too.

The Indian artifacts to be displayed in Washington and New York would be much better displayed by the people they were stolen from (or bought, same thing) upon their own reservations and homelands. If Americans want to know about my Tribe, the Ponca, they should learn from us, here at our home, they mightinvigorate our economy and begin to see us as Poncas and not"Indians." By coming here they might realize that after 500 years,vanishing is no longer an option.

The dispersal of the Smithsonian collections back to the Tribeswould benefit our children the most. They would realize the artistry and beauty of their peoples history and the value of their Nations. They would come to understand that the years since white contact have been only a short, ugly wart on the beautiful history of our people. It would give them faith that one day we will pass back into beauty. Artifacts in Washington DC are dead, cut-off relics in nothingness. At home they are freed from limbo and recharged with life and need. Even Artifacts need to be Ponca or Navajo orMakah.

Americans sensibilities will have been spared at the costof continuingdepredations against Indian people. Americans will go to theHolocaustMuseum and be told the horrible truths of what Hitler and theNazi's did tothe Jews. They will cry for the victims and mourn with thesurvivors, inthe end they too will be determined to protect the Jewishpeople from arepeat of the Holocaust. All thinking people support this.They will alsobe comforted (and exempted) to know that America defeatedthe Nazi, stoppedthe killing and helped Jews return to theirhomeland.

Next, Americans can walk over to the museum of 'Indian' history.They willbe amazed and pleased at the beauty of our past. Scenes of tipis,tanninghides and pastoral living will hide the blood coveringevery-square-inch ofAmerica. Our blood. They will go home marveling at ourancient art andbeauty and a little sad we had to pass into history becauseour buffalosuddenly "vanished." They may even feel a twinge of guilt atthe part theirancestors played in our demise. But they will go awaywithout seeing orknowing the "time of horror" each and every Tribe wentthrough upon contactwith the European. They will go home without realizinghow much of theslaughter was an officially inspired, government planned,racist policy ofgenocide. They will not realize the depth of the crimecommitted so theywill not understand the crimes being committed today orthe need forreparations to heal the devastation. They will not understandthat therewere entire Societies for whom the "final solution" worked.

Entire Tribes, as whole and complete as the the Jewish Tribes, werecompletely erased frommother earth. Their language will never be heard,their poetry, music,science and art is lost to the world, because they meta people whobelieved in their own, god given, superiority and theinferiority of allelse. (The base cause of all genocide). They will gohome without feelingthe need to help Indian Nations secure their ownhomelands or becomingdetermined there never be another American Holocaust.Worst of all, theywill go home not knowing that our people still sufferongoing policies ofgenocide and attacks on our existance. Missionaries andGovernments stillwork and plan to erase us from the face of our MotherEarth. IndianCountry, from the Artic to Anartica, is still awash in theblood of ourPeople.

Should American Indians be suspicious about theplacement and content ofthese two Museums? Jew and "Indian?" Did it takesome C.I.A. psy-war expertto figure out how best to cover-up the murder ofover 200 million people?Will this museum, with a mere nod to the 500 yearholocaust, stand as thepermanent enshrinement of the American lie and thefinal resting place ofIndian history? I believe there should be aholocaust museum on AmericasNational Mall in Americas Capitol city. Butnot one of the Europeandisaster. It must be a Bright Red Museum of theAmerican Holocaust! It mustcall the roll of entire Nations of beautifulpeople who succumbed to to thegenocidal onslaught.

Carter Camp is a member of the Ponca Nation and an activemember of theAmerican Indian Movement.

[jimkress]

The Indian wars are over. You lost. Get over it.

Try making a better life for your people rather than just sitting around and whining about the 'good old days before the white devils came.'

[spqrzilla9]

Did it takesome C.I.A. psy-war expertto figure out how best to cover-up the murder ofover 200 million people?Ah, another gross exaggeration.

[robomatik]

"Am I the only indian who doesn't trust the graverobbing Smithsonian..."

Judging by the indian museums I've seen, I guess only indians are permitted to be graverobbers of their indian ancestors.

"Next, Americans can walk over to the museum of 'Indian' history.They willbe amazed and pleased at the beauty of our past..."

Scalping, skinning, impaling, etc.? (These were tactics used by warring tribes long before evil whitey showed up by the way) I wonder if the butchery on the side of the indian will also be included? Besides, living day to day in mudhuts is beauty?

Theres some old indian saying that goes something like, "noone can own the earth." If that is true, a) how is it that we purchased Manhattan with trinquets, and b) how is it exactly that "evil whitey" STOLE North America from the indian? If you cant own something, I dont think that you can steal it.

My old calculus professor (in Colorado) used to tell me a story:

A group of indians came upon great flowing river. The indians, having come from an area where food was sparce, decided to attempt crossing the river. By the time the tribe crossed the river on foot, over half of them were dead- swept away by the great river.

Months later a group of white men ("evil whities") came to the banks of the same river. Studying the river, and calculating the risks to be great, the white men decided to build a bridge across it. They did, everyone survived- and subsequent travellers could also use their bridge.

Professor: "The indians were passive relative to their surroundings. The white men used what surrounded them to conquer their obstacles...

I am a BUILDER!" /prof. quote> (In this analogy indians=indiginous peoples of the world, and evil whities=advanced societies).

[eddie willers]

the people they were stolen from (or bought, same thing)

That tells you all you need know about this idiot's thinking power.

[SoDak]

HUGE exaggeration.

[onedoug]

If the American aborigine had had the same means, methods and cultural drive as the occidental,
he could have conquered them.

But he didn't, and doesn't.

Maybe it's finally time to leave the reservation.

[muawiyah]

As the childhood diseases of the Old World traveled across the continents they sometimes killed 95% to 98% of the people.

It took over 3 centuries to repopulate the area up to anywhere near the numbers that had been here.

One of humankind's most devastating plagues destroyed the Indian nations and cultures - not genocide!

In fact, just about the only folks to survive it had an European ancestor or two from the first contacts. They still suffer a very high infant mortality rate. Reference the Apostolic Charismatic Church of the First Born. They have their Indian roots although most people who come in contact with them believe them to be white. Still, the peyote use after main church services is one give away. Another is their practice of serial polygamy. There are others.

Those still identifying themselves as Indians, particularly those on the reservations, know about the infant mortality rate first hand, as well, and will tell you about it. I don't know if they do the same things as COTFB, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[driftless]

Now just imagine the situation. At the time of the Pilgrims there were maybe five million Indians living in what would be the future U.S. Five million for 3.6 million square miles. That means the land was thinly populated with many areas almost totally uninhabited. Now what would you do if you were a group of people coming into a sparsely inhabited almost completely undeveloped wilderness? Would you say things were too crowded and turn back? But what did the original inhabitants (Indians) do when they settled the land thousands of years before? Do you think that they ran into some other groups of people and decided to go back to Asia? Hardly. They did what other people have done since humans began roaming the earth. They found space for themselves or drove other people off theirs. Indian victimologists like this person want to believe like many other humans that their society was totally pure and innocent of sin. No society of humans is perfect but very imperfect. That means they had killer societies like the Aztecs and others that practiced warfare and took other Indian lands like the Sioux.

But when the Europeans came the Indians faced an enemy with a superior culture and numbers. The result was inevitable. It was the same result my Slovenian ancestors experienced two thousand years ago when the Romans invaded their land. My ancestors inferior culture was swallowed up by the superior Roman one. That is the way of the world. Could the settling of this country have been done better? Obviously yes. But what do Indians like this writer wish for...a return to their hunter-gatherer past? It would just as ridiculous for my ancestors to junk their present modern life and go back to the mountains herding sheep for a living. All peoples must adjust to modern society or perish. Indians like David Yeagley have adjusted to reality. The writer of this article has not.

[sarasmom]

Truth lives somewhere in between the article and the responces so far.

I am of mixed ancestry.To look at me,my native heritage is blended,untill I tell someone I am Blackfoot.I have the same face of my mother, but brown hair and eyes and white skin.Without the black hair and the darker skin of my mother,I dont endure the slurs my mother has endured her entire life.My daughter is blond.

Many of the lost tribes warred with each other prior to European influence. But it is also true many of the lost tribes were subject to ugly genocide by the "civilised" new people in the America's.

It is also true that the governments of the Americas continue to marginalise the "native" people.I have the blood of both and I refuse to be torn by the "pride" of either culture.It is possible to live with the truth of history, accepting the horrors and the beauty of both cultures.

My least favorite holiday is Thanksgiving.For obvious reasons,I prefer to keep a low profile on this day.

Re-writing history is an incredibly ignorant passtime modern people are enjoying.It makes people feel better and relieves them of the cultural guilt some may wish to impose on them and/or the tiny voices of racial superiorty felt in some degree by everyone, no matter their ancestry. It is a human thing.

Ignoring present reality is equally ignorant.Why should anyone carry the burden of guilt for the sins of their ancestors?We would all be better served to keep the truth of the past,refuse the guilt for actions not our own,and respect the cultures that have made us what we are.

I rarely here of Europeans describing themselves as Saxons or Normans.Life goes forward.Never smoothly, but always forward.All civilizations either adjust, or fail.

[sarasmom]

Smallpox infected blankets intentually distributed with the sure knowledge of inflicting lethal disease is not the same as a new and deadly flu accidentally spread.That was biological warfare.Historical fact. Ugly, but true anyway.The ugly parts of history should not be forgotten or future generations will be doomed to repeat them.

[sneakypete]

"If the Blacks get money, I want some too!"

You got it. As a Indian myself,it shames me to see these parasitic cretins get all the press. You ain't seen PC untill you have seen Indian PC. Some of these people make claims that would make Jesse Jackson blush.

[sneakypete]

Scalping, skinning, impaling, etc.? (These were tactics used by warring tribes long before evil whitey showed up by the way)

Let's not forget kidnapping and slavery,along with rape. Nothing the whites and other races didn't do too,but the point is the Indians also were doing their share of it.

Besides, living day to day in mudhuts is beauty?

What Indians lived in mud huts?

[muawiyah]

I can find documented support for a single British officer with serious mental problems having done that.

Frankly, smallpox really wasn't needed to do the job. Chickenpox, measles, mumps,... the ordinary diseases were deadly to the American Indians.

Then, think of the guys handing out the blankets? Wouldn't they get smallpox as well? Most folks who had been vaccinated still didn't mess with smallpox. There were sub-varieties of it that didn't necessarily succumb to the anti-bodies produced in response to innoculation.

Most of the big die-offs were done with by the winter of 1648. Over the next two centuries small groups of isolated individuals would catch up to the plague. Some of this was observed by Lewis and Clark.

[robomatik]

Pueblo and Anasazi ("enemies of the ancient ones") to name two.

p.s. I am part blackfoot. I just do not like pc history.

[sarasmom]

Chicken-pox was and remains to this day, an antibody producing virtual vaccination against smallpox. A single British officer was not the culprit.The Brits were long gone in the mid-late 1800s.Revisionist history is not history.Seek deeper.

My grandfather grew up on an Oklahoma Cherokee Reservation. His father was an Indian Agent.In the 60s and 70s, the facts of history were still readily available, and taught in US schools.Now, the truth is as obscured as the Jewish hollocaust deniers wish their version could be accepted.

I could wish the tribal/reservation Indians had as powerfull an ethnic presense to force the truth to remain obvious.But the "indians" are mostly dead now.I will not play a research game with you to prove the truth.You appear not to be a serious history expert. You may claim whatever you wish.Repetition does not make it fact.

[sneakypete]

Pueblo and Anasazi ("enemies of the ancient ones") to name two.

I wouldn't call adobe a "mud hut",any more than I would call a brick house a "mud hut". I don't think I have ever heard of the Anasazi.

[spqrzilla9]

There were some such incidents. They were relatively few and together with other massacres accounted for some thousands of native americans within the boundaries of the present United States. Far more natives died in abusive slave labor conditions in central and south america and the Caribbean. Even when you add in the far more numerous unintentional epidemic deaths, these did not add up to 200 million.

It is virtually impossible that there were 200 million inhabitants of the Americas in 1492.

[sarasmom]

I did not claim a number of dead people.But it is a bit of a stretch for you to refute the authors article since he claimed 200 mil period. Not in the single year of 1492.I have not confirmed an actual count, but would surmise his estimate is closer to reality than your denial of history.

"Few and far between incidences" as you state is a patently false premise.

.Is this entire thread a reaction to re-reported news of Canadian catholic church re-education schools ,and the current suits involving child sexual abuse?If so, I would like to point out these "re-education" camps operated into the 1960s.If not, feel free to post your "feelings", but dont expect me to respect your opinion as factually based or reasoned.

[spqrzilla9]

I'm not denying "history", I'm denying the bizarre exaggerations you've made.

And unlike you, and the author, I'm not pulling numbers out of my behind. If there were 50 million inhabitants in the Americas before Columbus ( see Ubelaker DISEASE AND DEMOGRAPHY IN THE AMERICAS, 1992), then killing them all four times over would be quite a feat. Instead, its obviously a fantasy.

For a discussion of the lower and upper bounds, see R.J. Rummel's book Death by Government, chapter 3.

[cibco]

"Smallpox infected blankets intentually distributed with the sure knowledge of inflicting lethal disease is not the same as a new and deadly flu accidentally spread."

The cause of smallpox was not discovered until almost 200 years after this happened. No one could have known this at the time(unless they had a time machine)...

[Deb]

There were no "smallpox infected blankets"!! That was a friggin' MOVIE FROM THE 40s!!! Gad, I'm sick to death of that story.

Think about, if you're capable...how does someone ANYONE go about infecting blankets with smallpox, without spreading it to his own community/family and getting the disease himself???

It's not possible. Because it never happened and is not a "fact", it's from a movie. I know you folks who love to claim Indian blood delight in it, but Geez...give that one up, please. It's just too stupid.

[tpaine]

"There were no "smallpox infected blankets"!! That was a friggin' MOVIE FROM THE 40s!!! Gad, I'm sick to death of that story."

Yep, -- we now have the offical hollywood version of gollywood history, staight from an old wives tail.

[Deb]

Please put on clean underpants when you enter a new thread

~~~~WHEW!!~~~~

And let us know when drooling becomes an Olympic event. We'll all root for ya, Stinky.

[Askel5]

Well I just hit the lucky sevens on latest posts ... "Posted by Deb to tpaine" ... does it get any better?

[Senator Pardek]

Well, you provide a link for a recent post addressed to Arthur Wildfire! March to B.C. Specht, and I'll be impressed. BTW - check your inbox for info on one of those two.

[RobbyS]

Many white hunters lived with the indians and preferred the life-style to living as a frontier farmer. Even materially, the frontier farmer did not live any better than the indian. Western settlement, however, destroyed the material base of the Indian lifestyle. Where they stayed in place they were reduced to a mangy existence, totally dispised and degraded.

[Senator Pardek]

And never use small caps while flagging me again.

[general_re]

"small caps"?

[MARTIAL MONK]

The smallpox story derives from letters from General Amherst who speculated on the possibility. There is no conclusive evidense that his plan was acted on other than the fact that there was an outbreak of smallpox among the Indians shortly thereafter. There was smallpox among the whites at Fort Pitt so I believe that the Indians may have contracted it by normal interaction.

It is well documented that the U.S. dispatched the Dragoons on expeditions to inoculate Plains Indians against smallpox in the 1840s. A great debate raged from the time of independence over treatment of the Indians. It is virtually impossible for the peace faction not to have known of any genocidal policies. Had such policies existed they would have raised hell.

It was well within the capabilities of the United States government to exterminate the Indians. If this was their policy they put a democrat in charge. From the time of the Constitutional Convention to 1890 (the period of the non-colonial "Indian Wars") Rummell estimates in "Death By Government" that 3000 Indians were killed by Government troops. More died at the hands of settlers and still more died from maltreatment but combat deaths averaged 30 per year. That is hardly genocide.

[tpaine]

Yep. -- A typical old gollywood tail. - Hung up on bodily functions. -- Still juvenile after all these years, deb?

[tpaine]

Please, don't burst Debbies big false balloons. -- She wants & needs to believe hollywoods versions of our history.

Its the only one she knows.

[Deb]

More tribes were wiped out by other tribes and Mexicans than any disease or action by the military. Early history books document it, but more recent accounts never mention this.

And you're right, the government could have eliminated all the tribes from the face of the Earth if that had been their aim. But then how could Armenians like Cher, pretend to be Indians?

Regardless of any memo discussing the possiblitiy of "infected blankets", it's not possible to accomplish. It couldn't have been done then and it couldn't be done now...except in the movies. If I concentrate long enough (and don't spring a leak) I'll come up with the name of the movie where the bad guy dies wrapped in the smallpox-infected blanket he meant for the Indians. That story sure has legs almost as long as the one about the Iroquois laws being the model for our Constitution. That one really gets me goin'.

[Deb]

Did your teeth fall out recently, Stinky? The usual lacerating remarks are only registering gum marks.

(((((DEPENDS ON AISLE 5!!!)))))

[tpaine]

Good grief gertie, -- dirty drawers, drooling, depends, false teeth, & false hollywood history. -- You have an obsession, I'd say.

[texlok]

Re-writing history is an incredibly ignorant passtime modern people are enjoying.It makes people feel better and relieves them of the cultural guilt some may wish to impose on them and/or the tiny voices of racial superiorty felt in some degree by everyone, no matter their ancestry. It is a human thing.

I'm part Cherokee myself. I love to hear people say "it was war (albeit one many Indians didn't want), etc.". Lets me know they have a tiny bit of humanity in them, and they feel ashamed at what all transpired. They want to believe that all Indian tribes were savage/brutal/etc. but deep down, they know a lot of tribes *tried* to live in peace with "the white man", and were screwed out of their homes, and in the case of the Cherokees and many others, forced to relocate to Oklahoma from the southeast. Nothing like chaining up women and children and forcing them to march through the winter. The white man really showed those Indians how superior they were!

But I digress. I consider myself an American foremost, and like slavery, I know nothing can be done to make up for it, so no use in beating a dead horse. Many in this country are really hoping the Indians go away so they can forget about that part of history. They are easily identifiable by their "tough s***" and "it was war" and "you lost" comments. They tend to be rednecks or have family trees that don't branch much and need to feel racially superior, or, as of lately, be liberal. Liberals don't like the Indians, they have a much larger beef with the government than the blacks/homosexuals/etc. The Indians would draw attention away from their causes, so they'd prefer they were swept under the rug as well.

[texlok]

Smallpox infected blankets intentually distributed with the sure knowledge of inflicting lethal disease is not the same as a new and deadly flu accidentally spread.That was biological warfare.Historical fact. Ugly, but true anyway.The ugly parts of history should not be forgotten or future generations will be doomed to repeat them.

You mean like history is repeating itself in the mideast right now?

History does repeat itself, constantly. It's too late for groups like the Indians, but the Jews aren't going to let it happen again. I admire that a lot.

Even short-term history repeats itself, we probably will be fighting Iraq before the year is over (and hopefully cleaning that mess up once and for all).

[tpaine]

c.1475 -- Iroquois Constitution --

Shares an elaborate dissertation on this document and other aboriginal regulations up to 1992, including wartime participation and land claims.

http://www.nelson.com/nelson/school/discovery/cantext/accounts/1000rafn.htm

Dear Debbie: -- Read it, -- and weep for your ignorance.

[muawiyah]

Admiration of the Iriquoi Confederation's political insights starts with Ben Franklin. Are you saying you don't like the man who tried to be everyone's Founding Father?

[muawiyah]

The Cherokee started out over near Cahokia (Illinois) - leastwise that's where they were when DeSoto came through. The next time they were encountered by Europeans they had horses and were living in Tennessee. They moved on East to the Carolinas.

Behind them the Mound Builder culture and all their towns had been destroyed - presumably by disease brought North from Mexico at the same time as the horses!

The relocation from the Carolinas to Oklahoma did not involve chaining people up and marching them in winter through the snow.

And the whole business of relocation was not objected to by everyone. Earlier on Thomas Jefferson had made plans to relocate all the Eastern Indians to Indiana. Some actually went there - think the words "Seymour" and "Brown County". John Methoxin (sp?), a Brotherton, or Mohican, or Oneida (however you wish to look at him) was a great proponent of relocation. It was his considered opinion that the Indian could not live in close proximity to the European because the European people seemed to cause Indians to die. The Germ Theory of disease was not developed at the time, but Methoxin, Jefferson and other leading intellectuals of the time worked out separation as a possible solution. Jefferson had also been convinced that Indians should be compensated for their land and other properties in any relocation - and this began to be done the same way it had under the British colonial authorities.

Not all the Indians moved to the Western lands, and not all the relocations were difficult. Try some of the works by Carl Buhley. I'm sorry to say, however, that most of the Methoxin related materials are not well cataloged. At some point in time I will see if I can't discover where they all are and prepare a bibliography for general use. He was a great man who worked to prevent the final biological destruction of the American Indian.

[texlok]

The relocation from the Carolinas to Oklahoma did not involve chaining people up and marching them in winter through the snow.

Your right, forgive me.

I assumed that the months november/december/january/february were winter months.

I assumed that the over 13,000 Cherokees that were imprisoned in military stockades (several of which are still standing today, and have historical markers discussing exactly what they were used for) were imprisoned for their own good, not because they didn't want to leave where they had built their homes and plantations.

I assumed the 5000 Cherokees that died either in stockades or along the trail, died out of sheer joy.

I assumed that it was called The Trail of Tears because it was bad, but obviously those tears were tears of happiness at leaving anything they couldn't carry on their backs, leaving the homes and plantations they built, and being forced to march through the winter and being imprisoned if they so much as questioned the military commanders.

And the whole business of relocation was not objected to by everyone.

That doesn't make it okay

Not all the Indians moved to the Western lands, and not all the relocations were difficult.

That doesn't make it okay.

You know, as I mentioned before, there were forts/stockades built expressly for removing the Cherokees. You know what they were called? Cherokee Removal Forts.

Please don't try and revise history, even subtly, or try and justify what was done. It's bad enough when liberals do it, whether it's the Civil War or what the founding fathers really meant. I hate to see it on FR.

[muawiyah]

There were over 21,000 people in Oklahoma and other places who were denied listing on the Dawes Rolls because they were not considered to be sufficiently Cherokee.

Many of them had been sent West because they were initially considered Cherokee in the East.

Then there were the African-American slaves! That begins a whole 'nuther discussion. Our folks freed their slaves in New York before they went West so the former slaves got to stay in New York. They did not take Jackson's invitation to move to Wisconsin so they ended up in Indiana. Most of them wouldn't have been eligible for the Dawes Rolls either, or any of the other rolls because of the blood quantum requirements, or the absence of documentation, or any other number of problems.

The situation involving mixed-race people and slaves has been written almost completely out of the history of the removals to Western lands.

Did you ever wonder why that is?

[texlok]

The situation involving mixed-race people and slaves has been written almost completely out of the history of the removals to Western lands.

Did you ever wonder why that is?

Embarassment? Perhaps trying to stem any accusations of hypocrisy(sp) when the US lectures other nations about the treatment of their citizens.

I don't think it should have an impact on the US of today though. Everybody involved is long dead and gone. This country has come an incredibly far war since the 1830s.

But I don't think we should forget either. Much like the Jews erected their monuments and museums to the holocaust, so to should we do so for the relocations/wars, and slavery. But it makes liberals very uncomfortable.

[sarasmom]

http://www.hopkins-biodefense.org/pages/news/risk.html First documented attemps to do so were by the Brits as recorded in documents from 1754 on. Scattered references since that time have been documented.Oral histories from several tribes have been passed down.

The scabs from the pustules remain viable as a contagion for a good while.As a means of transmission, crude but the jury is still out on the level of effectiveness.

I have no idea what movie you are speaking of.

So sorry you are sick of the past.People with your mentality are the reason the Jews think it imperative the Holocaust is documented repeatedly in museums and in all media forms.So it can never be reduced to a rumor in the ongoing revision of history.

[Deb]

Regardless of whether or not you know the movie...the infected blankets never happened. But thanks for desperately injecting the Jews/Holocaust into this totally unrelated discussion. You automatically lose.

Beware: Victimology can be habit-forming.