Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Blockbuster Book "Goodbye! Good Men" Exposes Gay Subculture in Catholic Church Hierarchy
The 'Goodbye! Good Men' web site ^ | 4/11/02 | Antoninus

Posted on 04/11/2002 7:16:08 PM PDT by Antoninus

This book is going to rattle a few cages I'll reckon. As described on the web site:

"In this explosive new book, investigative reporter Michael S. Rose reveals how deliberate discrimination against traditional, or "orthodox," men has been effected by well placed ideologues who want to change the Catholic Church in America to suit their personal tastes and politics."

The following snippets are taken from the 'feedback' page of the Good Bye! Good Men web site. They are currently soliciting even more responses.

-----------------------------------

I couldn't believe what I experienced in seminary
Submitted by Daniel W. Krueger, Ph.D., 8 April 2002, 5:43 p.m.


I am an ex-seminiarian. St. John Vianney College Seminary, Miami, Florida. Diocese of Orlando, Florida. I could not believe what I experienced while in Seminary. I have told few people and far fewer believed me. My experiences were in the early 1990's while I was in my late 20's. My bishop told me that I was obviously confused about my vocation after I complained to the rector about the gay subculture and the unwanted advances. I was told to take the Summer to think about it. I spent the summer in total isolation from my diocese, unreturned phone calls, treated like a second-class citizen. The vocations director told me I had an unhealthy need for attention. Needless to say, I never returned. It was a very sad decision for me and for the small parish in Bushnell, Florida who somehow came up with the money to sponsor my pre-theology education so I would not be strapped with student loans. It was also devastating to the pastor.

I am excited to read this book. I hope that many people will see where our seminaries need help and thus be inspired to push for reform. Congratulations on the upcoming publication!

A crisis that is not peripheral
Submitted by Michael S., 7 April 2000, 6:28 a.m.


I am glad you put out such a book, and without reading it I know its sorrows and woes. I still hope to become a priest if they will let me. The current craze of finding a conservative haven is not easy; in fact I have been in two "conservative" orders recommended by EWTN, and they both have all the trimmings of insanity and untraditional understandings of the Church. While I have not read the book I can say the crisis is not peripheral but shoots directly to the top of the Church as part of the problem. The fostering of a neo-Modernism, under the guise of a New Springtime, has caused irreperable harm to many priests psyche, and the beauty of it is they claim this insanity under the title of "pastoral sensitivity." As a 25-year-old man stuck in a Church that perceives men like me as ossified integrists with a distorted, fossilized perception of the Church, the saddest part is that the Vatican knows our woes, but won't give us the necessary means to overcome these problems with practical solutions. Until the Vatican and those who lead the Church are inevitably held accountable and change, I fear we have blinded ourselves to the true cause which has plagued many good Catholics and will continue to do so in the future.

We need to demand changes
Submitted by T.C., 2 April 2000, 12:50 p.m.


I have talked to many good priests who told me they were lucky to make it through the seminary. They were not allowed to pray the Rosary, not allowed to kneel during the Consecration at Mass, not allowed to have adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. They were taught lies about the faith--not to believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, to masturbate, to experiment with their sexuality, and that homosexuality was OK. There were more homosexual instructors than there were heterosexual. Instructors who taught the truth about the Catholic faith were kicked out. Most of the seminarians who believed in the true teachings of the faith were kicked out or went through a living hell to make it through the seminary. Thank God for those good ones who did. Also thank God for the young men coming into the seminary now who are demanding to be taught the true faith. I really wish you would list every single seminary, rector and instructor who has been a part of this destruction of our Church. We all need to demand changes from our bishops. The seminary that I have been speaking of is St. John's Seminary in St. Paul/Minneapolis. The instructors haven't changed, but the good seminarians are out-numbering the bad ones and starting to demand change. I am still horrified about the lack of courage and integrity of our bishops.

Confused and floundering in seminary
Submitted by Mike W., 2 April 2002, 10:13 a.m.


Unfortunately the Church has a number of irresponsible gay men in positions of influence, which is one of the things that has led us to the present crisis. Gay priests have often been active in 'progressive' movements aimed generally at undermining the authority of orthodox Christianity. Maybe in part this is just their neurotic way of dealing with male authority figures; but also it is ideological and tactical: undermine the authority and you undermine the sanctions against gay sex. And, pace Garry Wills, who of course has his own agenda, it isn't merely fear of being tarred with the same brush that has inhibited superiors from disciplining deviant padres, but fear of being attacked and smeared: few things have made me, a mere nobody, more cautious about expressing an (orthodox) opinion than fear of being mugged by charges of conservatism, or worse --and evoking a more vicious response-- homophobia. Most of the time I think: it's just not worth it. The problem, further, lies in a Church adrift after Vatican II, which left most of the bishops, as well as the faithful, confused and floundering. Spirituality was replaced with pop psychology (there was a fad per week on offer when I was a seminarian in the 80's at a place where anti-clericalism was the norm), and discipline was replaced with 'tolerance.' Church progressives can be distinguished by a craven need for validation by the secular left, and their abandonment of orthodox sexual doctrine was inevitable. We now have the result.

And it goes on and on and on like this....

Is anyone else as furious as I am?


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: catholicchurch; catholiclist; homosexuals; lavendermafia; molestation; pedophiles; priests; seminaries; vocationscrisis
That clucking sound you hear is the chickens coming home to roost...
1 posted on 04/11/2002 7:16:08 PM PDT by Antoninus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Claud
You need to see this if you haven't already...
2 posted on 04/11/2002 7:16:50 PM PDT by Antoninus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus
Apparently even gays can be bigots. It is the dark side of all of our natures, and must be resisted by folks of conscience.
3 posted on 04/11/2002 7:18:23 PM PDT by Torie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Patent; father_elijah; notwithstanding; Dr. Brian Kopp; wideawake; slyfox; Askel5; Romulus...
Read about this in The Wanderer today. I'm sure you all are aware of the book, but did you know about the web site?
4 posted on 04/11/2002 7:20:14 PM PDT by Antoninus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus
Now we know what the liberals mean by the fruits of Vatican II!
5 posted on 04/11/2002 7:24:55 PM PDT by Loyalist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus
The current craze of finding a conservative haven is not easy; in fact I have been in two "conservative" orders recommended by EWTN, and they both have all the trimmings of insanity and untraditional understandings of the Church.

This guy sounds very immature, to me, if even Mother Angelica's recommendations are too "liberal" for him.

I've always thought the Church would be better off if it didn't ordain anybody under 30.

Jesus didn't begin his public ministry until he was 30. Maybe that's the model we ought to follow.

6 posted on 04/11/2002 7:29:56 PM PDT by sinkspur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: sinkspur
This guy sounds very immature, to me, if even Mother Angelica's recommendations are too "liberal" for him.

If I were a liberal, I'd say you're "blaming the victim..."
8 posted on 04/11/2002 7:34:16 PM PDT by Antoninus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus
Here's another beauty from the feedback page. Seminary really did wonders for this poor kid. Text in brackets is mine.

Did seminary make me lose my faith?
Submitted by Joe C., 28 March 2002, 6:07 p.m.

I haven't read the book yet, except for the excerpts. I just have some thoughts about the premise. I am a former heterosexual seminarian. [One wonders what this ambiguous statement means...] I first contacted the vocation recruiter in July, 1989. I entered formation in January, 1990. I was in formation until September, 1995. I hung in there six years trying to keep my mouth shut in that environment.

I was in a religious order that was supposed to be vowed to poverty. Initially, it was the upper middle-class lifestyle that bothered me most about my experience. Within a couple years, I slowly became aware that I was surrounded by gays. Eventually, in a formation house of 39 residents, 22 had "come out" to me, and I was pretty certain that at least 4 more were gay. There were some older men who seemed to be good priests by traditional standards. But they were in their seventies, and I was in my twenties.

At the theological union I attended (Washington Theological Union), men flirted with each other daily, and prayed that Pope John Paul II would have a happy death, "...and soon," they would add with a smirk. In the classroom, I was listening to professors, some of whom I still don't know what they believed.

I entered seminary fairly conservative. Like many Catholics prior to 1994, I was open to women's ordination, but willing to support the Pope. I had hoped that I would learn the theology for his side in the seminary. I was even open to the possibility of married priests, but thought that I might have a genuine calling to celibacy regardless of whether priests married or not. I was healthy according to the psych tests. I liked sports, voted moderately Republican or pro-life conservative Democrat, and had a taste for apologetic theology.

By the end of formation, I was on the verge of atheism, and had to drag myself to Mass each week until I recovered some sort of faith. I was furious with the Church. My faith has become very different -- even to this day.

By the day I left, I had become convinced that celibacy for the clergy was a big lie forced on the Church by repressed homosexuals who were finally coming out of the closet in the 20th century. I know there were a few straight men in there, but I felt pity for them. I even began wondering whether Jesus, in his humanity, was gay. As true God and true man, he had to have a human sexual orientation didn't he? I still wonder this.

I am now a thouroughly liberal-progressive Catholic angry at Pope John Paul II over Ordinatio Sacerdotalis....[Clearly, this poor kid had his spirit broken. There's a big millstone waiting in Heaven for someone...]
9 posted on 04/11/2002 7:45:15 PM PDT by Antoninus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
Actually, I thought it an impressive example of critical self-distance.
10 posted on 04/11/2002 7:47:32 PM PDT by Romulus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus; sinkspur
Another very immature screed. I think Sinkspur has a point. It may be necessary in this very demanding profession to have been considerably annealed by the experinces of life. That gives you a certain moral courage to cut your own path, and resist deflective pressures.
11 posted on 04/11/2002 7:52:07 PM PDT by Torie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Torie
Another very immature screed. I think Sinkspur has a point.

Immature? Immature? Perhaps that gent needed some more psychological counseling like this fellow?

Unfortunately, it's all true!
Submitted by: Joseph Martinka, 19 March 2002, 9:17 a.m.


"Unfortunately, these allegations both inside today's seminaries and within the walls of today's churches are all too true. As shocking as much of this seems to those on the outside, those of us who have been "on the inside" know all too well what really goes on in the seminaries of the USA. I attended one year of seminary at Saint Andrew's Seminary in New Jersey. Although I was studying for a local religious order, I was sent to the diocesan seminary where I was to achieve my education and live among the students there and then on weekends be reunited with the "community" on weekends. What I heard and saw and experienced behind the walls of the seminary was more than I ever expected to see in a lifetime.

All of what has been said of clergy supporting the viewing of indecent movies, to the sanctioning and outright acceptance and banner waving for homosexuals and lesbians in places of power in the Church--all of these things were talked about in the seminary both among the students and also by the rector himself, who is now a bishop. I think what was more surprising to me, is that the more people I told of the things that I has experienced, the more I got the idea that these things were acceptable and normal for young men, many including myself who were just out of high school at the time, and that if we were in any way "scandalized" by these actions, that we were the ones with the psychological issues and that we were to be sent to the psych office for evaluation, and if we did not "pass the test" put forth to us, then we were "politely asked to leave."

My first and third (of three) psychological exams were given by lay associates. I am guessing that the "priest shortage" has caused them to fall back on lay people to give the exams. On two of the three occasions, I was told point blank that my results stated that I was "a tad too heavy on the Conservative side," and that the recommendation from the diocese was to "wait two years, live my life, find myself, and re-apply." It was at this point that I looked at the option of possibly joining a religious order. However, they too had the idea that there was something wrong with me, because they too felt the need to send me to a psychologist for testing and when the same results came back, it was their "plan" to "mold me into a different person."

All of the stories, all of the accusations of todays changing clergy, the "reforms in the Church, the cases going to court now, they are all caused by the same dysfunction in the Church today. We no longer want holy priests, we no longer want good priests, we want "Play-dough priests." These priests can be molded into the likeness of society. The Church no longer dictates what is best for society, now the tables have turned and "society knows best". I am no theologian, but I do know this, the "priest shortage" is the biggest ploy to hit the Church since the story of Pope Joan. And like Pope Joan this priest shortage does not exist, nor has it ever existed. It is a fool's game to try and turn the Church into a circus run by those in power who have their own secrets to hide. When Vatican II "opened the windows to let a breath of fresh air into the Church," it choked up a lot of people in power and now they are being forced to come clean, the stories are coming out and the truth is setting us free. Now maybe we will see that the changes that really need to be made are as close to us as a Council of Trent part II or a Jerusalem III. These priests that come out of toady's seminaries are not shepherds, they are wolves led to deceive rather than to bless, they will cause the sheep to be lost rather than found.

We need to vacuum out the seminaries and return the Faith and the morals, the sanity and the sanctity back into the seminaries so that in the four years that a man will be trained in the seminary, those four years will be in return a lifetime of holy service to Holy Mother Church."

The activities these young men describe are positively Stalin-esque. And yet you call THEM immature? You must be joking.
12 posted on 04/11/2002 7:57:41 PM PDT by Antoninus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: Antoninus
These priests that come out of toady's seminaries...

Felix culpa.

14 posted on 04/11/2002 8:05:25 PM PDT by Romulus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Lemonhead
Send Law a note. I suspect he is a very lonely man, and would appreciate hearing from you pending his final exit.
15 posted on 04/11/2002 8:07:50 PM PDT by Torie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
You may find this chapter from the book of particular interest:

CHAPTER 11
A Self-Fulfilling Prophecy
How a death-wish for the male, celibate priesthood created an artificial priest shortage

Read an excerpt.
16 posted on 04/11/2002 8:14:37 PM PDT by Antoninus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus
The next thing you know, these same b*st*rds will be claiming that Jesus was gay. After all He spent all His adult life with a bunch of men. There were no female apostles. And most importantly, Jesus never married.
17 posted on 04/11/2002 8:15:30 PM PDT by reg45
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: reg45
The next thing you know, these same b*st*rds will be claiming that Jesus was gay.

Uh, see post 9 towards the end in bold-face. Also, they made such a claim in the play 'Corpus Christi'. There is nothing new under the sun and the scum have already slandered Our Lord in ways the faithful would never imagine.
18 posted on 04/11/2002 8:19:21 PM PDT by Antoninus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Antoninus
In this explosive new book, investigative reporter Michael S. Rose reveals how deliberate discrimination against traditional, or "orthodox," men has been effected by well placed ideologues who want to change the Catholic Church in America to suit their personal tastes and politics

HMMMM sounds like a N.A.M.B.L.A. plot ?

20 posted on 04/11/2002 8:23:35 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
"I've always thought the Church would be better off if it didn't ordain anybody under 30...Jesus didn't begin his ministry until he was 30."

Oh, I think the issue of age regarding the Church's criteria for ordaining priests is the least of it's problems at the moment. Getting anyone to believe pedophilia/homosexuality isn't running rampant from top to bottom is.

21 posted on 04/11/2002 8:38:53 PM PDT by F16Fighter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus
Thanks for posting this. I have heard similar first-hand accounts from decent, fine, young Catholic men. God Bless.
22 posted on 04/11/2002 8:44:27 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus;patent;lent;longshanks;Freee-dame;maica
bttt
23 posted on 04/11/2002 8:46:23 PM PDT by Travis McGee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Romulus
Actually, I thought it an impressive example of critical self-distance.

Twenty-five year olds don't know a thing about "critical self-distance."

I'm not sure I do.

Some young people just like to gripe.

24 posted on 04/11/2002 9:17:43 PM PDT by sinkspur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: F16Fighter
Oh, I think the issue of age regarding the Church's criteria for ordaining priests is the least of it's problems at the moment. Getting anyone to believe pedophilia/homosexuality isn't running rampant from top to bottom is.

Maybe. But I still think that asking a 24 year old to take a lifelong vow of celibacy is unrealistic.

25 posted on 04/11/2002 9:23:31 PM PDT by sinkspur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
Twenty-five year olds don't know a thing about "critical self-distance."

I suppose that's why the U.S. armed services train twenty-something ensigns/2d lts. to fly $30 million dollar aircraft loaded with bombs and missiles. By the time they hit 30, they've completed several carrier-based deployments.

26 posted on 04/11/2002 9:52:56 PM PDT by Gee Wally
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Gee Wally
Your comment strikes me as apples and oranges. One profession is conducive to testosterone, and one isn't.
27 posted on 04/11/2002 9:59:19 PM PDT by Torie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
Maybe. But I still think that asking a 24 year old to take a lifelong vow of celibacy is unrealistic.

No more unrealistic than a lifelong vow of monogamy.

28 posted on 04/11/2002 10:14:32 PM PDT by Dumb_Ox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
For those who can't handle the realism of the vows, they really don't have to take them, now do they? Nobody is forcing them to take the vows. It's purely volitional. If the force, is a selfish arrogant desire to hold power in a religious organization, then they shouldn't be taking the vows in the first place. Worse, it seems a large number of people who didn't take the vows to heart, made the vows, and then failed to keep them. They further then created a false church which condoned quietly the violation of vows without censure. Now the institution has become corrupted by this lackluster acceptance of corruption.

There is no temptation too great than which can be resisted. This includes lust. This definitely includes homosexuality. Yes, even pedophilia, murder and cannibalism and every form of abomination which man might be tempted to commit. They may all be resisted through Christ.

29 posted on 04/11/2002 10:18:38 PM PDT by Cvengr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
Twenty-five year olds don't know a thing about "critical self-distance."

So what? What does that have to do with a hierarchy that not only winks at homosexual abuse, it probably even participated in it?

I want to know why the hierarchy of the Catholic Church aids and abets the abuse of their flock and I want those responsible, be they directly responsible, or accessories before or after the fact to go to jail.

This book sounds like it will help me answer that question.

30 posted on 04/11/2002 10:25:50 PM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
Oh,I am so excited,I found someone who agrees with you about celibacy.It's Art Bell,he may start dealing with Martians next or the shadow people or maybe the alien abductions. His radio program is just chock full of fascinating,state of the art information and his opinions on things like celibacy might be very valuable for you to buttress your arguments for married priests.Tune him in,he goes for four hours and we are only starting the second hour.
31 posted on 04/11/2002 11:02:32 PM PDT by saradippity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: Antoninus
Thank you for this post. There is no greater work on this earth than purifying Christ's church. We must not rest until the last desecrater is removed.

I pray that the Lord will aid us against evil, and bring us to victory.

33 posted on 04/12/2002 12:54:44 AM PDT by Iris7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Iris7
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio,
contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Imperet illi Deus, supplices deprecamur:
tuque, Princeps militiae coelestis, Satanam aliosque
spiritus malignos, qui ad perditionem animarum
pervagantur in mundo, divina virtute, in infernum
detrude. Amen.


[Translation: St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle; be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world for the ruin of souls. Amen.
34 posted on 04/12/2002 5:59:53 AM PDT by Antoninus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus; *Catholic_list; patent; notwithstanding; JMJ333; Aunt Polgara; AgThorn...
From Anti-Catholic 'Experts' Fuel Church's Scandals

Homosexual Agenda

Shocking as it is, this is not an isolated case. Rose reports that another clinical psychologist, Dr. David J. Brown, screens candidates for the Diocese of Altoona-Johnstown in Pennsylvania. Dr. Brown, he reveals, "has gone out of his way to make the case that homosexuality is perfectly normal.

"Testifying before a public school board in State College, he argued on spiritual grounds for legitimizing homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle in the public schools there. Brown told the school board that he was 'appalled' that the school district had excluded known homosexual speakers from Penn State University from making presentations to teachers at in-service day workshops."

We've been trying to get Brown kicked out here for years. A close friend here interviwed for Brown's position before Brown was hired. When questioned about his opinions on homosexuality, he replied giving the orthodox Church position. The priest interviewing him, the director of Vocations here, stood up and shouted "WHAT?!? You can't say that!"

My friend was not hired. Brown was. And we know good men Brown prevented from entering seminary for our diocese because of their orthodoxy.

Altoona-Johnstown Diocese Homosexual Scandal:

Part I - Link Between Homosexual Promotion & Penn State Catholic Community

Part II - Video shows Diocese paid psychologist advocating the homosexual lifestyle

And the lies here continue. Comments in BOLD are from a friend here who collaborated with Michael Rose regarding Brown for his book:

[ Thursday, April 11, 2002 ]
Priests, experts respond to national controversy

By Meghan Sedlak
For The [State College PA Campus Paper] Collegian

As several priests have nationally admitted to molesting young children and teenagers within their parishes, local citizens are responding to the incidents. In the past two months, the archdiocese of Boston has provided the names of more than 45 priests accused of molesting children, and dozens more nationwide and around the world are also being brought up on similar accusations. The Rev. Stephen Honeygosky, director of the Penn State Catholic Community, said that allowing priests to marry would not be a cure-all to the situation at hand.

"(This situation) has nothing to do with celibacy and homosexuality," he said. Some people believe it does have something to do with pedophilia, which is defined as the sexual attraction of adults to prepubescent children.

This situation has EVERTHING TO DO WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. How can Honeygosky make such a comment, which is unconscionable given that we're talking about boys being molested here, not girls. There is a direct correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia as documented by the National Association of Research and Therapy of Homosexuality. Michael Rose's new book Goodbye! Good Men, which documents how generations of vocations were turned away from the priesthood is proof positive that a "gay" subculture exists in the Catholic Church that must be rooted out. Honeygosky's obfuscation on this issue contributes to the problem rather than solving it.- Gary L. Morella

"Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder recognized by the mental health community," said Gowen Roper, Penn State assistant director of The Psychological Clinic and assistant professor of psychology. "There is a diagnosis that can be found in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, which has listed behaviors, thoughts and feelings. There are treatments, but the success rate of these treatments is variable." As more and more victims speak out, some churches are being forced to make amends for priests. Some parishes have begun to sell off property and other assets to pay for lawsuits that have resulted. Honeygosky said there are several steps parishes can take to limit further problems among clergy.

We're not talking about a "three strikes and you out mentality" which does not belong in the consideration of those who are supposed to be acting as an "altar Christus", "in persona Christi" (another Christ, in the person of Christ), which is what the Catholic priesthood is. You do not allow people guilty of child abuse anywhere near children. You do not take that chance for the very good reasons that we're seeing reported daily.The Church is not in the business of rehabilitating those suffering from severe developmental disorders, but rather of saving souls. The former is best left to what ever reputable psychiatrists and psychologists remain; the latter is the business of the Catholic priesthood. - Gary L. Morella

"We should be very careful in the screening of people that come into the seminary, and monitor their maturation spiritually and academically and sexually. We also need to teach them not to be afraid to talk about things."

Honeygosky's last statement betrays his true feelings. The Church had better be afraid of such things because being inclined to homosexual acts is not a red badge of courage for the Catholic priesthood. In this context, Honeygosky's statement above is contradictory. How can you claim to be careful in your screening process if you feel that there is not problem at all with those who are inclined to what the Church officially refers to as "an intrinsic moral evil, the inclination itself being objectively disordered?"

Somebody BETTER BE AFRAID ABOUT SUCH THINGS! The consequences are scandalous as we all now know. - Gary L. Morella

Honeygosky believes much of these problems can be attributed to the lack of communication within the Catholic Church, and the repression of problems. Newman Catholic Student Association Treasurer Steven Kiernan, in response to last week's comments by the Pope said, "Here on campus we have four priests who do an excellent job of performing their ministry with honesty and integrity."

The problems are directly attributable to the unchecked dissent from Church teaching that has been allowed to fester since Vatican II. The lack of communication that Honeygosky should be referring to is that of the direct intentional ignorance of Church Teaching in documents from Rome that are dead-on-arrival before the ink is dry. The dissenters have done their work well. In fact, THE problem is nowhere better evidenced than with Honeygosky's comments in the Penn State student paper. - Gary L. Morella

Representatives from Good Shepherd Catholic Church and Our Lady of Victory Church, both in State College, and St. John Evangelist Catholic Church, in Bellefonte, all declined comment.

The Associated Press contributed to this article.

35 posted on 04/12/2002 8:14:48 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sneakypete
Shocking as it is, this is not an isolated case. Rose reports that another clinical psychologist, Dr. David J. Brown, screens candidates for the Diocese of Altoona-Johnstown in Pennsylvania. Dr. Brown, he reveals, "has gone out of his way to make the case that homosexuality is perfectly normal.

A key reason for the homosexual agenda's being taught in schools from the get-go. It's ESSENTIAL that sufficient experimentation take place so that kids are accustomed to bisexuality, if not turned to homosexuality, and consider it just another means of scratching an itch.

Just like surrogate mothers, artificial insemination, artificial wombs, cloning and such are just another means of purchasing the Perfect Child to accessorize your lifestyle if you feel entitled to exericise your "right" to have child.

36 posted on 04/12/2002 9:24:22 AM PDT by Askel5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Truly disgusting. This has got to end! The outrage of the faithful must make the very foundations of St. Peter's shake! Liberal 'innovation' within the Church has been an unmittigated DISASTER on all fronts!
37 posted on 04/12/2002 10:20:22 AM PDT by Antoninus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Askel5
It's ESSENTIAL that sufficient experimentation take place so that kids are accustomed to bisexuality, if not turned to homosexuality, and consider it just another means of scratching an itch.

Which is exactly why it is equally essential that the sons of Lucifer be opposed on every occasion.
38 posted on 04/12/2002 10:22:03 AM PDT by Antoninus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus
Is anyone else as furious as I am?

You bet. A couple of years ago a friend of mine entered the (traditionalist) seminary of the Priestly Society of St. Peter in Nebraska under Bishop Bruskewitz. I asked him if he had considered nearby St. John's Seminary in Brighton, MA under Cardinal Law.

He shook his head and mentioned something about a "gay problem." Since I wasn't sure what he was talking about, I let it drop. The picture for me is becoming clearer.

39 posted on 04/12/2002 12:19:24 PM PDT by Aquinasfan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus
I am going to buy this book. It seems to me important that all Catholics read it.
40 posted on 04/12/2002 12:40:10 PM PDT by B Knotts
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Brian Kopp
There is a pro-gay activist teaching "psychology" at one of the Catholic colleges. When heterosexual students complained the guy was advocating pro-homosexual propaganda, the whole situation was whitewashed. The media have shown no interest in putting pressure on bishops or Catholic leaders to do anything about these kinds of situations. So who really is covering up what?
41 posted on 04/12/2002 1:35:51 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Brian Kopp
This is so upsetting I hardly know what to do now, so I pray:.

St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle; be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

42 posted on 04/12/2002 3:54:21 PM PDT by father_elijah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
The media have shown no interest in putting pressure on bishops or Catholic leaders to do anything about these kinds of situations. So who really is covering up what?

The tragic thing is that Pope John Paul II demanded over ten years ago in Ex Corde Ecclesiae(sp?) that the bishops bring the theological faculty in Catholic colleges under their control, and since that time the bishops have dragged their feet while waiting for the Pope to die.

43 posted on 04/12/2002 7:30:29 PM PDT by Aquinasfan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
What is really ironic (in a sick way) is that this creep Shanley's involvement with NAMBLA has been in the public record since the 1970s. And the media just discovered that this month? Get real, libs. These types knew very well there was an aggressive gay movement in the Church (which the media and the libs supported). Some bishops may be at fault for covering up, but there's plenty of blame to point elsewhere as well.
44 posted on 04/12/2002 7:36:38 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: AdamWeisshaupt
(Correct me if I'm wrong but...) By US law the local bishop owns all diocesan property. If there is open schism, with US bishops separating themselves from Rome, Rome will have no recourse to keep the institutional structure, and the US gov't will support the rights of the local hierarchy to control Church property. Unless an individual bishop sides with Rome, most Catholics would be churchless if they want to stay Roman Catholic.

Thus the Pope has not used an iron fist with the US hierarchy, as they have threatened open schism if he does. A bishop lasts a lifetime. Schisms last centuries. But the loss of an eternal soul of a victimized child lasts for eternity.

47 posted on 04/12/2002 8:51:12 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Thus the Pope has not used an iron fist with the US hierarchy, as they have threatened open schism if he does.

Which is exactly why it is imperative that the laity make sure our bishops know that splitting from Rome is not an option.
48 posted on 04/13/2002 8:26:02 PM PDT by Antoninus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: B Knotts
I am going to buy this book. It seems to me important that all Catholics read it.

I'm about two thirds done with it and things are even worse than I tought - - and I subscribe to "The Wanderer!" Still, I think it is important that all Catholics read this book, and then get to work making things better.

49 posted on 04/25/2002 8:56:16 PM PDT by Diago
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson