Skip to comments.Blockbuster Book "Goodbye! Good Men" Exposes Gay Subculture in Catholic Church Hierarchy
Posted on 04/11/2002 7:16:08 PM PDT by Antoninus
This book is going to rattle a few cages I'll reckon. As described on the web site:
"In this explosive new book, investigative reporter Michael S. Rose reveals how deliberate discrimination against traditional, or "orthodox," men has been effected by well placed ideologues who want to change the Catholic Church in America to suit their personal tastes and politics."
The following snippets are taken from the 'feedback' page of the Good Bye! Good Men web site. They are currently soliciting even more responses.
I couldn't believe what I experienced in seminary
Submitted by Daniel W. Krueger, Ph.D., 8 April 2002, 5:43 p.m.
I am an ex-seminiarian. St. John Vianney College Seminary, Miami, Florida. Diocese of Orlando, Florida. I could not believe what I experienced while in Seminary. I have told few people and far fewer believed me. My experiences were in the early 1990's while I was in my late 20's. My bishop told me that I was obviously confused about my vocation after I complained to the rector about the gay subculture and the unwanted advances. I was told to take the Summer to think about it. I spent the summer in total isolation from my diocese, unreturned phone calls, treated like a second-class citizen. The vocations director told me I had an unhealthy need for attention. Needless to say, I never returned. It was a very sad decision for me and for the small parish in Bushnell, Florida who somehow came up with the money to sponsor my pre-theology education so I would not be strapped with student loans. It was also devastating to the pastor.
I am excited to read this book. I hope that many people will see where our seminaries need help and thus be inspired to push for reform. Congratulations on the upcoming publication!
A crisis that is not peripheral
Submitted by Michael S., 7 April 2000, 6:28 a.m.
I am glad you put out such a book, and without reading it I know its sorrows and woes. I still hope to become a priest if they will let me. The current craze of finding a conservative haven is not easy; in fact I have been in two "conservative" orders recommended by EWTN, and they both have all the trimmings of insanity and untraditional understandings of the Church. While I have not read the book I can say the crisis is not peripheral but shoots directly to the top of the Church as part of the problem. The fostering of a neo-Modernism, under the guise of a New Springtime, has caused irreperable harm to many priests psyche, and the beauty of it is they claim this insanity under the title of "pastoral sensitivity." As a 25-year-old man stuck in a Church that perceives men like me as ossified integrists with a distorted, fossilized perception of the Church, the saddest part is that the Vatican knows our woes, but won't give us the necessary means to overcome these problems with practical solutions. Until the Vatican and those who lead the Church are inevitably held accountable and change, I fear we have blinded ourselves to the true cause which has plagued many good Catholics and will continue to do so in the future.
We need to demand changes
Submitted by T.C., 2 April 2000, 12:50 p.m.
I have talked to many good priests who told me they were lucky to make it through the seminary. They were not allowed to pray the Rosary, not allowed to kneel during the Consecration at Mass, not allowed to have adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. They were taught lies about the faith--not to believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, to masturbate, to experiment with their sexuality, and that homosexuality was OK. There were more homosexual instructors than there were heterosexual. Instructors who taught the truth about the Catholic faith were kicked out. Most of the seminarians who believed in the true teachings of the faith were kicked out or went through a living hell to make it through the seminary. Thank God for those good ones who did. Also thank God for the young men coming into the seminary now who are demanding to be taught the true faith. I really wish you would list every single seminary, rector and instructor who has been a part of this destruction of our Church. We all need to demand changes from our bishops. The seminary that I have been speaking of is St. John's Seminary in St. Paul/Minneapolis. The instructors haven't changed, but the good seminarians are out-numbering the bad ones and starting to demand change. I am still horrified about the lack of courage and integrity of our bishops.
Confused and floundering in seminary
Submitted by Mike W., 2 April 2002, 10:13 a.m.
Unfortunately the Church has a number of irresponsible gay men in positions of influence, which is one of the things that has led us to the present crisis. Gay priests have often been active in 'progressive' movements aimed generally at undermining the authority of orthodox Christianity. Maybe in part this is just their neurotic way of dealing with male authority figures; but also it is ideological and tactical: undermine the authority and you undermine the sanctions against gay sex. And, pace Garry Wills, who of course has his own agenda, it isn't merely fear of being tarred with the same brush that has inhibited superiors from disciplining deviant padres, but fear of being attacked and smeared: few things have made me, a mere nobody, more cautious about expressing an (orthodox) opinion than fear of being mugged by charges of conservatism, or worse --and evoking a more vicious response-- homophobia. Most of the time I think: it's just not worth it. The problem, further, lies in a Church adrift after Vatican II, which left most of the bishops, as well as the faithful, confused and floundering. Spirituality was replaced with pop psychology (there was a fad per week on offer when I was a seminarian in the 80's at a place where anti-clericalism was the norm), and discipline was replaced with 'tolerance.' Church progressives can be distinguished by a craven need for validation by the secular left, and their abandonment of orthodox sexual doctrine was inevitable. We now have the result.
And it goes on and on and on like this....
Is anyone else as furious as I am?
Oh, I think the issue of age regarding the Church's criteria for ordaining priests is the least of it's problems at the moment. Getting anyone to believe pedophilia/homosexuality isn't running rampant from top to bottom is.
Twenty-five year olds don't know a thing about "critical self-distance."
I'm not sure I do.
Some young people just like to gripe.
Maybe. But I still think that asking a 24 year old to take a lifelong vow of celibacy is unrealistic.
I suppose that's why the U.S. armed services train twenty-something ensigns/2d lts. to fly $30 million dollar aircraft loaded with bombs and missiles. By the time they hit 30, they've completed several carrier-based deployments.
No more unrealistic than a lifelong vow of monogamy.
There is no temptation too great than which can be resisted. This includes lust. This definitely includes homosexuality. Yes, even pedophilia, murder and cannibalism and every form of abomination which man might be tempted to commit. They may all be resisted through Christ.
So what? What does that have to do with a hierarchy that not only winks at homosexual abuse, it probably even participated in it?
I want to know why the hierarchy of the Catholic Church aids and abets the abuse of their flock and I want those responsible, be they directly responsible, or accessories before or after the fact to go to jail.
This book sounds like it will help me answer that question.
I pray that the Lord will aid us against evil, and bring us to victory.
Shocking as it is, this is not an isolated case. Rose reports that another clinical psychologist, Dr. David J. Brown, screens candidates for the Diocese of Altoona-Johnstown in Pennsylvania. Dr. Brown, he reveals, "has gone out of his way to make the case that homosexuality is perfectly normal.
"Testifying before a public school board in State College, he argued on spiritual grounds for legitimizing homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle in the public schools there. Brown told the school board that he was 'appalled' that the school district had excluded known homosexual speakers from Penn State University from making presentations to teachers at in-service day workshops."
We've been trying to get Brown kicked out here for years. A close friend here interviwed for Brown's position before Brown was hired. When questioned about his opinions on homosexuality, he replied giving the orthodox Church position. The priest interviewing him, the director of Vocations here, stood up and shouted "WHAT?!? You can't say that!"
My friend was not hired. Brown was. And we know good men Brown prevented from entering seminary for our diocese because of their orthodoxy.
Altoona-Johnstown Diocese Homosexual Scandal:
And the lies here continue. Comments in BOLD are from a friend here who collaborated with Michael Rose regarding Brown for his book:
[ Thursday, April 11, 2002 ]
Priests, experts respond to national controversy
By Meghan Sedlak
For The [State College PA Campus Paper] Collegian
As several priests have nationally admitted to molesting young children and teenagers within their parishes, local citizens are responding to the incidents. In the past two months, the archdiocese of Boston has provided the names of more than 45 priests accused of molesting children, and dozens more nationwide and around the world are also being brought up on similar accusations. The Rev. Stephen Honeygosky, director of the Penn State Catholic Community, said that allowing priests to marry would not be a cure-all to the situation at hand.
"(This situation) has nothing to do with celibacy and homosexuality," he said. Some people believe it does have something to do with pedophilia, which is defined as the sexual attraction of adults to prepubescent children.
This situation has EVERTHING TO DO WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. How can Honeygosky make such a comment, which is unconscionable given that we're talking about boys being molested here, not girls. There is a direct correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia as documented by the National Association of Research and Therapy of Homosexuality. Michael Rose's new book Goodbye! Good Men, which documents how generations of vocations were turned away from the priesthood is proof positive that a "gay" subculture exists in the Catholic Church that must be rooted out. Honeygosky's obfuscation on this issue contributes to the problem rather than solving it.- Gary L. Morella
"Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder recognized by the mental health community," said Gowen Roper, Penn State assistant director of The Psychological Clinic and assistant professor of psychology. "There is a diagnosis that can be found in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, which has listed behaviors, thoughts and feelings. There are treatments, but the success rate of these treatments is variable." As more and more victims speak out, some churches are being forced to make amends for priests. Some parishes have begun to sell off property and other assets to pay for lawsuits that have resulted. Honeygosky said there are several steps parishes can take to limit further problems among clergy.
We're not talking about a "three strikes and you out mentality" which does not belong in the consideration of those who are supposed to be acting as an "altar Christus", "in persona Christi" (another Christ, in the person of Christ), which is what the Catholic priesthood is. You do not allow people guilty of child abuse anywhere near children. You do not take that chance for the very good reasons that we're seeing reported daily.The Church is not in the business of rehabilitating those suffering from severe developmental disorders, but rather of saving souls. The former is best left to what ever reputable psychiatrists and psychologists remain; the latter is the business of the Catholic priesthood. - Gary L. Morella
"We should be very careful in the screening of people that come into the seminary, and monitor their maturation spiritually and academically and sexually. We also need to teach them not to be afraid to talk about things."
Honeygosky's last statement betrays his true feelings. The Church had better be afraid of such things because being inclined to homosexual acts is not a red badge of courage for the Catholic priesthood. In this context, Honeygosky's statement above is contradictory. How can you claim to be careful in your screening process if you feel that there is not problem at all with those who are inclined to what the Church officially refers to as "an intrinsic moral evil, the inclination itself being objectively disordered?"
Somebody BETTER BE AFRAID ABOUT SUCH THINGS! The consequences are scandalous as we all now know. - Gary L. Morella
Honeygosky believes much of these problems can be attributed to the lack of communication within the Catholic Church, and the repression of problems. Newman Catholic Student Association Treasurer Steven Kiernan, in response to last week's comments by the Pope said, "Here on campus we have four priests who do an excellent job of performing their ministry with honesty and integrity."
The problems are directly attributable to the unchecked dissent from Church teaching that has been allowed to fester since Vatican II. The lack of communication that Honeygosky should be referring to is that of the direct intentional ignorance of Church Teaching in documents from Rome that are dead-on-arrival before the ink is dry. The dissenters have done their work well. In fact, THE problem is nowhere better evidenced than with Honeygosky's comments in the Penn State student paper. - Gary L. Morella
Representatives from Good Shepherd Catholic Church and Our Lady of Victory Church, both in State College, and St. John Evangelist Catholic Church, in Bellefonte, all declined comment.
The Associated Press contributed to this article.
A key reason for the homosexual agenda's being taught in schools from the get-go. It's ESSENTIAL that sufficient experimentation take place so that kids are accustomed to bisexuality, if not turned to homosexuality, and consider it just another means of scratching an itch.
Just like surrogate mothers, artificial insemination, artificial wombs, cloning and such are just another means of purchasing the Perfect Child to accessorize your lifestyle if you feel entitled to exericise your "right" to have child.
You bet. A couple of years ago a friend of mine entered the (traditionalist) seminary of the Priestly Society of St. Peter in Nebraska under Bishop Bruskewitz. I asked him if he had considered nearby St. John's Seminary in Brighton, MA under Cardinal Law.
He shook his head and mentioned something about a "gay problem." Since I wasn't sure what he was talking about, I let it drop. The picture for me is becoming clearer.