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Blockbuster Book "Goodbye! Good Men" Exposes Gay Subculture in Catholic Church Hierarchy
The 'Goodbye! Good Men' web site ^ | 4/11/02 | Antoninus

Posted on 04/11/2002 7:16:08 PM PDT by Antoninus

This book is going to rattle a few cages I'll reckon. As described on the web site:

"In this explosive new book, investigative reporter Michael S. Rose reveals how deliberate discrimination against traditional, or "orthodox," men has been effected by well placed ideologues who want to change the Catholic Church in America to suit their personal tastes and politics."

The following snippets are taken from the 'feedback' page of the Good Bye! Good Men web site. They are currently soliciting even more responses.


I couldn't believe what I experienced in seminary
Submitted by Daniel W. Krueger, Ph.D., 8 April 2002, 5:43 p.m.

I am an ex-seminiarian. St. John Vianney College Seminary, Miami, Florida. Diocese of Orlando, Florida. I could not believe what I experienced while in Seminary. I have told few people and far fewer believed me. My experiences were in the early 1990's while I was in my late 20's. My bishop told me that I was obviously confused about my vocation after I complained to the rector about the gay subculture and the unwanted advances. I was told to take the Summer to think about it. I spent the summer in total isolation from my diocese, unreturned phone calls, treated like a second-class citizen. The vocations director told me I had an unhealthy need for attention. Needless to say, I never returned. It was a very sad decision for me and for the small parish in Bushnell, Florida who somehow came up with the money to sponsor my pre-theology education so I would not be strapped with student loans. It was also devastating to the pastor.

I am excited to read this book. I hope that many people will see where our seminaries need help and thus be inspired to push for reform. Congratulations on the upcoming publication!

A crisis that is not peripheral
Submitted by Michael S., 7 April 2000, 6:28 a.m.

I am glad you put out such a book, and without reading it I know its sorrows and woes. I still hope to become a priest if they will let me. The current craze of finding a conservative haven is not easy; in fact I have been in two "conservative" orders recommended by EWTN, and they both have all the trimmings of insanity and untraditional understandings of the Church. While I have not read the book I can say the crisis is not peripheral but shoots directly to the top of the Church as part of the problem. The fostering of a neo-Modernism, under the guise of a New Springtime, has caused irreperable harm to many priests psyche, and the beauty of it is they claim this insanity under the title of "pastoral sensitivity." As a 25-year-old man stuck in a Church that perceives men like me as ossified integrists with a distorted, fossilized perception of the Church, the saddest part is that the Vatican knows our woes, but won't give us the necessary means to overcome these problems with practical solutions. Until the Vatican and those who lead the Church are inevitably held accountable and change, I fear we have blinded ourselves to the true cause which has plagued many good Catholics and will continue to do so in the future.

We need to demand changes
Submitted by T.C., 2 April 2000, 12:50 p.m.

I have talked to many good priests who told me they were lucky to make it through the seminary. They were not allowed to pray the Rosary, not allowed to kneel during the Consecration at Mass, not allowed to have adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. They were taught lies about the faith--not to believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, to masturbate, to experiment with their sexuality, and that homosexuality was OK. There were more homosexual instructors than there were heterosexual. Instructors who taught the truth about the Catholic faith were kicked out. Most of the seminarians who believed in the true teachings of the faith were kicked out or went through a living hell to make it through the seminary. Thank God for those good ones who did. Also thank God for the young men coming into the seminary now who are demanding to be taught the true faith. I really wish you would list every single seminary, rector and instructor who has been a part of this destruction of our Church. We all need to demand changes from our bishops. The seminary that I have been speaking of is St. John's Seminary in St. Paul/Minneapolis. The instructors haven't changed, but the good seminarians are out-numbering the bad ones and starting to demand change. I am still horrified about the lack of courage and integrity of our bishops.

Confused and floundering in seminary
Submitted by Mike W., 2 April 2002, 10:13 a.m.

Unfortunately the Church has a number of irresponsible gay men in positions of influence, which is one of the things that has led us to the present crisis. Gay priests have often been active in 'progressive' movements aimed generally at undermining the authority of orthodox Christianity. Maybe in part this is just their neurotic way of dealing with male authority figures; but also it is ideological and tactical: undermine the authority and you undermine the sanctions against gay sex. And, pace Garry Wills, who of course has his own agenda, it isn't merely fear of being tarred with the same brush that has inhibited superiors from disciplining deviant padres, but fear of being attacked and smeared: few things have made me, a mere nobody, more cautious about expressing an (orthodox) opinion than fear of being mugged by charges of conservatism, or worse --and evoking a more vicious response-- homophobia. Most of the time I think: it's just not worth it. The problem, further, lies in a Church adrift after Vatican II, which left most of the bishops, as well as the faithful, confused and floundering. Spirituality was replaced with pop psychology (there was a fad per week on offer when I was a seminarian in the 80's at a place where anti-clericalism was the norm), and discipline was replaced with 'tolerance.' Church progressives can be distinguished by a craven need for validation by the secular left, and their abandonment of orthodox sexual doctrine was inevitable. We now have the result.

And it goes on and on and on like this....

Is anyone else as furious as I am?

TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: catholicchurch; catholiclist; homosexuals; lavendermafia; molestation; pedophiles; priests; seminaries; vocationscrisis
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
There is a pro-gay activist teaching "psychology" at one of the Catholic colleges. When heterosexual students complained the guy was advocating pro-homosexual propaganda, the whole situation was whitewashed. The media have shown no interest in putting pressure on bishops or Catholic leaders to do anything about these kinds of situations. So who really is covering up what?
41 posted on 04/12/2002 1:35:51 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
This is so upsetting I hardly know what to do now, so I pray:.

St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle; be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

42 posted on 04/12/2002 3:54:21 PM PDT by father_elijah
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
The media have shown no interest in putting pressure on bishops or Catholic leaders to do anything about these kinds of situations. So who really is covering up what?

The tragic thing is that Pope John Paul II demanded over ten years ago in Ex Corde Ecclesiae(sp?) that the bishops bring the theological faculty in Catholic colleges under their control, and since that time the bishops have dragged their feet while waiting for the Pope to die.

43 posted on 04/12/2002 7:30:29 PM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: Aquinasfan
What is really ironic (in a sick way) is that this creep Shanley's involvement with NAMBLA has been in the public record since the 1970s. And the media just discovered that this month? Get real, libs. These types knew very well there was an aggressive gay movement in the Church (which the media and the libs supported). Some bishops may be at fault for covering up, but there's plenty of blame to point elsewhere as well.
44 posted on 04/12/2002 7:36:38 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: AdamWeisshaupt
(Correct me if I'm wrong but...) By US law the local bishop owns all diocesan property. If there is open schism, with US bishops separating themselves from Rome, Rome will have no recourse to keep the institutional structure, and the US gov't will support the rights of the local hierarchy to control Church property. Unless an individual bishop sides with Rome, most Catholics would be churchless if they want to stay Roman Catholic.

Thus the Pope has not used an iron fist with the US hierarchy, as they have threatened open schism if he does. A bishop lasts a lifetime. Schisms last centuries. But the loss of an eternal soul of a victimized child lasts for eternity.

47 posted on 04/12/2002 8:51:12 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Thus the Pope has not used an iron fist with the US hierarchy, as they have threatened open schism if he does.

Which is exactly why it is imperative that the laity make sure our bishops know that splitting from Rome is not an option.
48 posted on 04/13/2002 8:26:02 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: B Knotts
I am going to buy this book. It seems to me important that all Catholics read it.

I'm about two thirds done with it and things are even worse than I tought - - and I subscribe to "The Wanderer!" Still, I think it is important that all Catholics read this book, and then get to work making things better.

49 posted on 04/25/2002 8:56:16 PM PDT by Diago
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