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Follow-Up on the Milwaukee Cathedral Renovations (Must-See pictures!)
Seattle Catholic ^ | 2/28/02 | Maureen J. Fitzsimmons-Vanden Heuvel

Posted on 04/14/2002 4:59:18 AM PDT by Aquinasfan

First-hand impressions of Weakland's monstrosity

Since last May, I have been a part of a wonderful group of people who have opposed the interior "wreckovation" of our historic St. John the Evangelist Cathedral in the Milwaukee Archdiocese. I decided to view the changes for myself on Saturday, February 17, 2002....

View the damage for yourself.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: cathedral; catholiclist; milwaukee; modernart; weakland
I'm so shocked by the photos that I haven't even read the story.

Weakland obviously hates the Church. But he holds himself in high esteem, being pictured in a bronze sculpture with St. John the Evangelist (pictured)

Words fail me. It's time for a lot of these bishops to go.

1 posted on 04/14/2002 4:59:18 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: Catholic_list
Photos of Weakland's "wreckovation" of the Milwaukee Cathedral. You have to see it to believe it.
2 posted on 04/14/2002 5:01:59 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: Aquinasfan
I've seen these pictures before, and they're pretty disgusting. Were you aware that Weakland also had a portrait of himself placed in a roundel along the aisle?
3 posted on 04/14/2002 5:06:38 AM PDT by livius
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To: Aquinasfan
Articles on church renovation.
4 posted on 04/14/2002 5:10:48 AM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: LadyDoc
LINK

Sorry first link didn't work.

5 posted on 04/14/2002 5:11:53 AM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: Aquinasfan
When you have priest acting like a bill clinton this is what you end up with. Disgusting immorality
6 posted on 04/14/2002 5:14:03 AM PDT by chainsaw
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To: LadyDoc
Thanks for the link, I think. Just when I thought things couldn't get more depressing.

Well, I guess it's time to air this all out. The stench is unbearable.

7 posted on 04/14/2002 5:17:31 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: livius
Were you aware that Weakland also had a portrait of himself placed in a roundel along the aisle?

No. Why haven't I heard of these vanities before? Hmmm...

8 posted on 04/14/2002 5:19:06 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: livius
Were you aware that Weakland also had a portrait of himself placed in a roundel along the aisle?

That's good, now everyone can worship Weakland as Weakland does.

9 posted on 04/14/2002 5:22:11 AM PDT by pbear8
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To: Aquinasfan
Huberis on parade. It's so sad.
10 posted on 04/14/2002 5:24:27 AM PDT by ChadGore
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To: Aquinasfan
This is all new to me, and I have never heard of this Weakland character, so my automatic question (after following your link) is: Just who the hell does this twerp think he is?????????

I'm just a run-of-the-mill evangelical, so pardon my ignorance..........but where I come from, this (especially the statues of himself; his flaunting of his own image alongside saints, etc., even over Christ Himself) would be called "blasphemy".

11 posted on 04/14/2002 5:30:07 AM PDT by RightOnline
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To: Aquinasfan;catholic_list
Looks like another Vosko "masterpiece"! .

Vosko’s familiar trademarks include claiming that Vatican II changed the theology of the Mass; asserting that reverence for the tabernacle is an abuse that detracts from Christ’s presence in the assembly; appealing to the no-authoritative document Environment & Art in Catholic Worship; and the charade of a consultation process on "renovating" designed to make parishioners feel as if the ideas he puts forth are their own.

The charade begins when the decision is made to renovate or build a new church. A contract is then signed with Father Vosko, often at the recommendation of diocesan worship committee or bishop. A consultation fee of at least $15,000 is paid to Vosko out of parish funds. This initial fee is paid to Vosko for the work he does in the preliminary stage, in which he will lead the parish to the conclusion that it needs a new church which is suitable for the new liturgy of Vatican II (Although Vatican II created no new liturgy.)

During the second phase of the charade articles appear in the diocesan paper. This begins the conditioning process to brainwash parishioners into accepting major changes to the church. At this point in the process, the pastor’s goal (with the help of Vosko) is to bring division to his parish—those who are for the renovation and those who are against. The pastor then sets himself up as the great authority on liturgy and church architecture. Vosko will later help the pastor treat those who oppose the renovation as "liturgical retards" and spiritual midgits, ridiculing their "pre-Vatican II" form of worship.

The parish begins to hear that "change is difficult; change involves conversion; conversion is the Church’s business; the parish needs to be converted from exaggerated individualism and private devotion to focus on the assembly and community." The pastor aims to make parishioners feel guilty and, if they are resisting his ideological propaganda (being coached by Vosko), they are made to feel they are being "divisive", working against "unity in the parish" and against "creating a sense of community."

During the third phase the pastor searches for strong advocates in the parish who will support the pastor’s predetermined plan for the renovation or new church. These same parishioners will later be placed on the "re-vision" or "renew" committees in an effort to stack the deck against those who oppose the project. The pastor or associate pastor will then hold a series of meetings to give Vosko’s teaching on modernist church architecture, explaining why the Church requires moving the tabernacle out of the sanctuary into a side chapel, why chairs must be used instead of pews, why the church needs to be built in the round, why there will be no crucifix and why the cross—which will look like a "plus sign"—will only be brought in during the Mass, why there will be no traditional statues, why the existing statue of the Blessed Virgin should be kept in a closet and only "brought out on special occassions." Then he will attempt to marginalize the opposition as fringe dissidents. This phase is characterized by deliberate misinterpretation of Vatican II and an appeal to the authority of EACW.

In the next phase "revision committees" are set up. Vosko’s plan calls for a finance committee, fundraising committee, logistics and hospitality committee, data gathering committee, architect selection committee, publicity and communications committee, art and furnishings committee, music instruments committee, liturgy committee. Each of these then works with Vosko, the pastoral staff and parish council. The whole process is detailed in what Vosko calls "an advanced planning packet," which details the whole charade for those who will be helping—whether they know it or not— with the smoke and mirrors.

The committee structure –"more people doing less"— helps forge the impression that the whole project design process has been democratic and was a community effort. Each committee is charged with special tasks designed to promote the propaganda campaign. For instance, the "publicity and communications committee" is responsible for announcing the renovation process through a specially designed newsletter, publicizing the renovation effort through local media, placing bulletin and pulpit announcements each weekend, inserting the FDLC "educational inserts" into the weekly bulletin, placing posters "throughout the facility." The committee is also instructed to arrange media interviews with community leaders and consultant if possible.

The parish will then start to hear soundbite-like distortions of the truth, such as "the church will be restored in a way that reflects its original beauty."

During phase five, Vosko arrives on the scene for his "adult education" sessions. (He holds a PhD in "adult education"). His show begins with a "renewal program" designed to undermine the traditional faith of the average pew Catholic. Vosko presents three presentations, including a two part lecture with slides on the development of church art and architecture. Vosko presents parishioners with a wildly distorted conception of the history of the Christian tradition in architecture and sacred art. The purpose of these slide lectures is to ridicule traditionally arranged spaces and to challenge parishioners’ notions of what a church should look like—inside and out.

Parishioners are questioned by means of a survey as to how they feel about their faith, and the church itself. They are probed about what they think is wrong with the building. The adult education sessions conclude with an "architectural tour" of modernist churches which fulfill Vosko’s program, "in order to learn about what makes a sacred space."

Parishioners are then led to the conclusion that the parish is not celebrating the sacraments according to the "spirit of Vatican II" and that a new church is necessary to meet the needs of the new liturgy.

A "design workshop" entitled "God’s House is Our House Too!" is held at the parish. This is thesummit of the charade. The workshop is advertised as "a chance to share our ideas for our worship facility with each other. Parishioners are broken up into "small groups," a vote is taken and the results are usually kept secret. Only the pastor and Vosko know the results. A couple weeks later it is announced that the people chose the plan Vosko proposed.

From thereon a renovation committee hand-picked by the pastor is set up to see the project smoothly to its completion. The members of this committee are characterized by their loyalty to the pastor, rather than to their faith or their church. They are indoctrinated to act as apologists for the project and taught to quote from EACW, which they are told is "Church law." (it is not)

To learn more about "Fr. Vosko", go here:

Church Renovator Thrives on Manipulation Skills

Some of Fr.Vosko's handy work

How a Canadian church was saved from destruction

We have plenty of his "gems" right here in his Albany diocese.

12 posted on 04/14/2002 5:30:08 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Aquinasfan
I'm not a catholic, but what I see here is:
Destroy tradition.
Make abstract the center or our faith.
Abolish silence.
Abolish meditation.
Abolish prayer.

All of the above are accomplished in one way or another by the changes made in this cathedral.
Everything is designed to distract and prevent worship.
I'm afraid that you may have to find a quiet corner somewhere else and a sympathetic priest.

13 posted on 04/14/2002 5:33:58 AM PDT by Politically Correct
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To: NYer; Artist
During the third phase the pastor searches for strong advocates in the parish who will support the pastor’s predetermined plan for the renovation or new church. These same parishioners will later be placed on the "re-vision" or "renew" committees in an effort to stack the deck against those who oppose the project.

I had the feeling that this is how it works. Now I'm sure. I could wretch.

*********

BTW, since my teens I have hated with a passion those schlocky woodcut covers to the Missalettes. Where the hell do they come from? Never mind, I think I answered my own question.

14 posted on 04/14/2002 5:45:47 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: RightOnline
this (especially the statues of himself; his flaunting of his own image alongside saints, etc., even over Christ Himself) would be called "blasphemy"

Most Catholics would agree with you, except those who've lost their common sense through their alleged "education."

15 posted on 04/14/2002 5:48:28 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: NYer
People should check out the links you provided to Vosko's wreckovations.

Last summer I went to a "sideways church" in Stroudsburg, PA just like the one pictured in Schenectady .

Unbelievable. The disease is spreading.

16 posted on 04/14/2002 6:00:48 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: Aquinasfan
Even cancer can be stopped!

This is his personal web site, more specifically a link to his "projects". Just make certain you put down the coffee mug before clicking on the link. Plenty of before and after views of his "deconstructionist" edifices:

RICHARD VOSKO'S PROJECTS

The following are excerpts from his presentation in Ohio. This is another "must visit" link:

Church designer’s work praised, condemned, but never ignored

Caution, put ALL coffee mugs down before linking to that site!

During his lecture, which was accompanied by a slide presentation, he said that the church building and art and architecture are not the most important elements in the process of designing a worship space. Rather, he said, "It’s about finding out about who we are and where we’re going."

Father Vosko said that in designing worship space, art and architecture are mere helpmates that can aid as well as hinder the process. "Art and architecture are not containers for ritual objects or even people; they are not places where God dwells only, but metaphors that put us in touch with a particular story."

He said worship spaces should reflect the movement implicit in a spiritual journey or search for the sacred, the mingling of groups of people coming together, the memory or story they keep alive, and the way they imagine heaven or other spiritual realms.

They also should incorporate the notion of a threshold so that people entering the worship space experience the shedding of cares and a sense of passage and transformation.

PERSONAL NOTE

After looking at those pictures from St. John the Evangelist in Milwaukee, I'm sure many of the parishioners now "know who they are and know where they are going" ... and it's not back into that cathedral. I notice that you were able to save your Tabernacle and Baptismal font. He usually tosses the font and replaces it with a pool. For the Tabernacle, he reserves a special treatment ... he moves it out of the church or cathedral. (Note to our protestant friends, in the catholic church, we believe in transubstantiation, i.e. that the bread and wine are changed into the Body and Blood of Christ. Once the hosts have been blessed, they become the Living Christ. Traditionally, those that have been blessed are kept in a richly adorned Tabernacle, befitting the presence of Christ. Fr. Vosko, following along the views of Vatican II, believes the focus should shift to the action that takes place on the altar. The Tabernacle, in that sense, becomes a distraction and is moved somewhere else.)

If it's any consolation, Aquinasfan, we here in Albany are now in the initial phase of a 15 year renovation of our Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception. The project was presented to us as an historical landmark preservation. I can't wait to see what Fr. Vosko does to alienate the congregation in his "home town".

17 posted on 04/14/2002 6:58:46 AM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer;catholic_list
BTTT!
18 posted on 04/14/2002 4:08:08 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer
No more "sideways churches" please! This guy's got one joke and it's not funny.

He takes traditional churches and turns them into something out of a Stanley Kubrick movie or a Freemason temple.

19 posted on 04/14/2002 6:25:08 PM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: NYer
Yuck!

These Cathedrals go from hideously ugly, with cherub candelabra and strange statues of the Infant Jesus of Prague, to hideously ugly, with a corpus that looks like something out of "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" and a surrounding display that resembles the flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz.

I'm surprised that Weakland's "throne" isn't something he has to ascend using wires and hoisting devices.

20 posted on 04/14/2002 6:45:51 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Aquinasfan; livius; pbear8
Were you aware that Weakland also had a portrait of himself placed in a roundel along the aisle?

Would it be 1)Mortally sinful, 2)Venially sinful, or 3)a corporal act of mercy

to enter this church and use this roundel for paintball target practice?

21 posted on 04/14/2002 10:55:30 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Aquinasfan; american colleen; Antoninus; patent; Askel5
After viewing those pictures of the evil that Weakland has done to the Cathedral I feel nauseated

I pray to you, Lord Jesus Christ, drive out of your church all apostate clergy, sexual predators, and those with disordered minds and passions. Grant that while I yet live I may see this Cathedral restored to the beauty of holiness and the name of Weakland remembered no more. Amen.

22 posted on 04/14/2002 10:57:54 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: Aquinasfan; Dr. Brian Kopp; ventana
Weakland has done to this Cathedral what Calvin did to our once beautiful Cathedrals. This is heresy in motion. I don't think I'm overstating that.
23 posted on 04/14/2002 10:59:50 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Would it be 1)Mortally sinful, 2)Venially sinful, or 3)a corporal act of mercy to enter this church and use this roundel for paintball target practice?

I vote for 3.

I have to say that I entertained the notion myself. But I was thinking of something that would detach the alleged sculpture from its moorings...

24 posted on 04/15/2002 6:21:05 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: NYer
Let me post from one of your linked articles. This dude is a New Ager:

Church designer’s work praised, condemned, but never ignored

BY JUDY TARJANYI
BLADE SENIOR WRITER

Hailed by his admirers as a creative force and reviled by his critics as a "deconstructionist," the Rev. Richard Vosko labors in the idyllic minefield of religious architecture and design.

Although his work has been known to elicit swoons, traditionalists tend to regard his ideas as iconoclastic. For them, the mention of his name in association with a church renovation or construction project is synonymous with trouble, and many have mounted campaigns to protest his plans for churches in communities around the country.

At the same time, however, Father Vosko’s work has been singled out for national recognition. His renovations of St. James Cathedral in Seattle and the Cathedral of the Incarnation in Nashville have won awards, as has his design of Toledo’s Corpus Christi University Parish, where he spoke Tuesday night.

About 300 people turned out to see Father Vosko as part of the parish’s spring lecture series. After his presentation, he withstood several challenges and even was heckled as a "con man" by one listener, but his supporters rose to defend him by praising his work or simply asking him to elaborate on his approaches to church design.

Father Vosko, a priest based in the Diocese of Albany, N.Y., has been a religious building designer and consultant in the United States and Canada since 1970. Among his current projects are the new Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels in Los Angeles and the renovation of San Fernando Cathedral in San Antonio, Texas, the oldest Catholic cathedral in the United States. [Who's the bishop of San Antonio?!] In addition, he has worked in the Jewish community as a consultant on several synagogue projects.

He believes strongly that places of worship affect how people pray and is a strong advocate of seating arrangements that enhance participation in communal worship. In general, he favors seating arranged around a focal point, whether it is a Christian altar or Jewish bimah.

During his lecture, which was accompanied by a slide presentation, he said that the church building and art and architecture are not the most important elements in the process of designing a worship space. Rather, he said, "It’s about finding out about who we are and where we’re going."

Father Vosko said that in designing worship space, art and architecture are mere helpmates that can aid as well as hinder the process. "Art and architecture are not containers for ritual objects or even people; they are not places where God dwells only, but metaphors that put us in touch with a particular story."

He said worship spaces should reflect the movement implicit in a spiritual journey or search for the sacred, the mingling of groups of people coming together, the memory or story they keep alive, and the way they imagine heaven or other spiritual realms.

They also should incorporate the notion of a threshold so that people entering the worship space experience the shedding of cares and a sense of passage and transformation. He said Corpus Christi, a church built along busy stretch of Dorr Street across from a bustling university campus, does this by offering those who enter a sense of refreshment as they pass into the worship space, which features a baptismal pool flanked by images of modern-day saints.

With the Corpus Christi project, Father Vosko was charged with designing a completely new facility for a parish community that, accustomed to worshiping in rented campus facilities, was sympathetic to and appreciative of his artistic sensibilities.

There was no tabernacle to move, no cross to redesign, and no altar to relocate. What emerged was a cutting-edge contemporary design with moveable chairs arranged around a moveable altar, cross, and lectern set atop a labyrinth in the floor.

During his lecture, Father Vosko praised the design, saying that the circle as a place where people can mingle is a powerful symbol, as is the labyrinth. He also likes the church’s moveable wooden cross which he described as a "powerful totem that puts us in touch with that which can be."

Father Vosko defends his ideas about church design by attributing them to the Catholic Church’s teaching that lay people are to be active, conscious participants in worship. "This is not a show the clergy do for us; it’s something we do together," he said.

Churches and synagogues are not museums, but places for the ritual activity of communities, he said, adding that he questions to what extent a building for community worship should be set aside to honor the private prayers of individuals.

When he is asked to advise a parish on redesigning an existing worship space, he said, "Sometimes you have to strip away things ... that get in the way, things that are just habits." But he claims that in working with a parish, "I don’t insist on a lot" and that all final decisions are left to local committees and bishops.

Asked how inner-city parishes could get their European-style buildings to reflect the experience of the current inhabitants, many of whom are African-American or Asian, Father Vosko said he would recommend that such communities begin to fill their churches with stories and icons of their own. "You need professional help to do this in a way that is aesthetically satisfying," he said, but over time, new icons should be incorporated to reflect the group inhabiting the building.

In response to another question, Father Vosko said he thought the decline in Catholic belief in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, or communion, since the 1960s, could be traced to the way the concept is being taught rather than to a trend toward relocating church tabernacles, which house the reserved communion bread, from the main altar to ancillary chapels.[or out the door and onto the sidewalk]

Father Vosko’s apparent preference for a coat and tie over the Roman clerical collar was challenged by one questioner who addressed him as "Mr. Vosko" [bravo] and expressed his dislike for the priest’s taste in church art and architecture, which he said does not reflect Catholic traditions.

Although Father Vosko did not respond to the challenge, he later ended his presentation with a quotation from Pope Celestine I that he said he carries with him at all times: "We [the bishops and clergy] should be distinguished from the common people by our learning, not by our clothes, by our conduct, not by our dress, by cleanness of mind, not by the care we spend upon our person."


25 posted on 04/15/2002 6:38:25 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: Aquinasfan
Father Vosko is a menace -- he accomplishes what Calvin and the other Reformers couldn't.
26 posted on 04/15/2002 9:44:08 AM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
I realize I should have said "Mister Vosko"....
27 posted on 04/15/2002 9:44:34 AM PDT by history_matters
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To: Aquinasfan
Words fail me.

Me, too. Too awful for words.

28 posted on 04/15/2002 9:47:13 AM PDT by Orual
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To: Claud
Bonk!
29 posted on 04/15/2002 10:57:19 AM PDT by Antoninus
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To: NYer
Thanks for the link to "Mr." Vosko's projects. Interestingly, a parish that I attended in my youth, St. Patrick's in Brockton, Ma., was listed as "wreckovated". St. Patrick's was the most beautiful church - built around 1870 by the Irish immigrant population, St. Patrick's was almost basilica-like and still had the little metal "hat holding clips" on the back of the pews... I hadn't gone there in years and about 10 years ago went to attend a weekday morning Mass there as I was in the area. I was shocked by the changes... it was completely different, the beautiful altar was gone, all the intricate stone work ripped out - and, where was the tabernacle??? As in all the pictures I viewed of Vosko's work - you cannot find it. The central part of our faith is nowhere within easy viewing. That, IMHO, is the worst part of all of this.
30 posted on 04/15/2002 11:42:13 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: RightOnline
You need to know that most "progessive" Catholics are egomaniacs; their reforms represent an excess of clericalism. You may not know that there is a long tradition of anti-clericalism in th Catholic Church. If we want to put a priest on the pedestal, WE will decide to do it, and woe to the priest who goes too far.
31 posted on 04/15/2002 11:46:49 AM PDT by RobbyS
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To: Aquinasfan
Nice agenda. I willng to bet you haven't even been to Milwaukee or the cathedral.
32 posted on 04/15/2002 11:47:32 AM PDT by Anoy11_
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To: Aquinasfan
Nice agenda. I willng to bet you haven't even been to Milwaukee or the cathedral.
33 posted on 04/15/2002 11:48:55 AM PDT by Anoy11_
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To: american colleen
The reforms of the "progressives" are among the worst excesses of clericalism.
34 posted on 04/15/2002 11:49:04 AM PDT by RobbyS
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To: american colleen;aquinasfan
How interesting that you should mention the pews with the hat holders on the back. A fellow freeper recommended attenting a Tridentine mass (the traditional Latin mass) at a church not far from my home. My eyes were riveted to the hat holders on the back of the pews.

The UnaVoce web site (dedicated to ensuring that the Roman Mass codified by St. Pius V is maintained as one of the forms of eucharistic worship which are honored in universal liturgical life, and to restoring the use of Latin, Gregorian Chant, and sacred polyphony in Catholic liturgy)has a link to some beautiful churches. The introduction to one must surely resonate with you:

There are times when a Catholic might believe that the church has been utterly despoiled of beauty at the hands of the new reformers. One can visit many new, expensive buildings, and find that there is little real beauty both within and without, and the craftsmanship and style is not at all condusive to prayer and things of the Divine Order.

Enjoy your visit: CHURCHES

35 posted on 04/15/2002 12:33:53 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer
How interesting that you should mention the pews with the hat holders on the back. A fellow freeper recommended attenting a Tridentine mass (the traditional Latin mass) at a church not far from my home. My eyes were riveted to the hat holders on the back of the pews.

Bless me Father, for I am ignorant. All my life I have wondered about those weird little clips on the backs of pews in older churches. I thought perhaps they were used to hold one's offering envelope so that it could be picked up later (?) or not forgotten at the offertory (??).

Now, I finally know what they are for. I can now die fulfilled.

36 posted on 04/15/2002 12:42:04 PM PDT by Campion
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To: Aquinasfan
and their spacing rendered the kneelers useless.

Which, of course, was the purpose of the chairs because the Church is pushing for the abandonment of kneel(ers/ing).

I remember, and this was some years ago, my local parish priest telling us that we really shouldn't be kneeling (in respect for the eucharist), but should be standing instead (offering ourselves up to God). He is also the priest who, at the last mass I attended, stood in front of a small gathering on a weekday mass and informed us that; "You know you're not supposed to be here for the mass, don't you? You do know that?"

My late aunt was a devout Catholic all of her life. In her 60's, her local parish decided to get rid of the kneelers. For her, this was the last straw and she never attended Mass again. She had put up with everything else, but she just couldn't get past this one thing (just the straw that ... etc.)

I was also interested in the pic showing the private area for prayer. When our parish had a new church built, the Tabernacle was placed in a small room off of the church (oops, that's "worship center") with three kneelers. The door to this room is routinely closed, and I have seen some people in there kneeling on the cement floor because there is no room at the few kneelers available.

37 posted on 04/15/2002 12:54:49 PM PDT by LibertarianLiz
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To: LibertarianLiz
You know you're not supposed to be here for the mass, don't you? You do know that?"

I was also interested in the pic showing the private area for prayer. When our parish had a new church built, the Tabernacle was placed in a small room off of the church (oops, that's "worship center") with three kneelers. The door to this room is routinely closed, and I have seen some people in there kneeling on the cement floor because there is no room at the few kneelers available.

This stuff is a huge scandal.

38 posted on 04/15/2002 5:56:20 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Would it be 1)Mortally sinful, 2)Venially sinful, or 3)a corporal act of mercy to enter this church and use this roundel for paintball target practice?

I figured it out - - it would be an act of mercy to use this roundel for paintball target practice; it would be a sin to miss.

39 posted on 04/16/2002 1:59:09 PM PDT by pbear8
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To: Aquinasfan
Actually, I visited the Cathedral for the first time this week. Much to my surprise, I liked how the alter was laid out. The crucifix is in such a position that the eye cannot help but fall on it. I found that I was transfixed on it throughout the mass.
40 posted on 04/22/2002 6:34:42 AM PDT by GypsyBob
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