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BBC: Pope orders talks on US sex scandals
BBC.com/Americas ^ | 15/04/02

Posted on 04/15/2002 12:11:55 PM PDT by history_matters

Pope orders talks on US sex scandals

Pope John Paul II

The Pope has spoken out against "evil" abusers

Pope John Paul II has summoned leaders of the Roman Catholic church in the United States to the Vatican to discuss recent disclosures of sex scandals, which have rocked the church.

The Vatican says the meeting with American cardinals will probably take place next week.

demo

Demonstrators have been calling for Archbishop Law to go

The Archbishops of New York and Boston - traditionally the two most important posts in the Catholic church in the US - have been under pressure to resign because of their alleged role in covering up cases of abuse involving priests.

The Archbishop of Milwaukee has also been accused of suppressing information about cases of alleged abuse.

The Catholic Church has also faced similar allegations in a number of other countries.

The Pope last month made his first public denunciation of guilty priests.

Time for action

Boston Archbishop Cardinal Bernard Law, 70, has been at the epicentre of a scandal in which he is accused of knowing that a few priests in his archdiocese were serial child molesters, but he did not discipline them - he simply moved them from parish to parish where they preyed on new victims.

The affair is similar to problems in St Louis, Florida, California, Philadelphia and Detroit.

Our correspondent says it has severely undermined the credibility of the church and clearly the Vatican now believes it has to take action.

Cardinal Law did not turn up to mass at his cathedral on Sunday because there were protesters outside the cathedral and he thought they would disrupt the service.

Heavy criticism

Across the whole country, 3,000 priests face allegations of child abuse.

law

Archbishop Bernard Law: Under pressure

Cardinal Law has been heavily criticised since former priest John Geoghan was convicted of child molesting.

He has acknowledged that he transferred Geoghan to another parish despite knowing of sexual misconduct allegations against the now-defrocked Boston priest.

Geoghan is believed to have abused more than 100 people over a 20-year period.

The scandals are also a huge financial burden for the church. They have settled out of court in many instances and the cost of that has been more than $1bn.

There is talk that some archdioceses will be bankrupted by the scandals.

Commentators suspect that the Pope will have to get rid of a layer of the Catholic hierarchy, starting with Cardinal Law.



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cardinallaw; catholic; catholicbashing; catholiccaucus; catholicchurch; catholiclist; popejohnpaulii; scandal; sexcrimes
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This is one of the few reports drawing attention to the scandals about to erupt in Milwaukee because of Archbishop Rembert Weakland's abuse of power and his penchant for protecting homosexual clergy even if they are predators.
1 posted on 04/15/2002 12:11:55 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: Catholic_list; Catholic_bashing; Dr. Brian Kopp; patent; Askel5; notwithstanding; Aquinasfan...
ping
Lord Jesus Christ, thou Good Physician, heal thy Church, we beseech thee.

2 posted on 04/15/2002 12:16:01 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
Typical liberal press ... even in England. The Pope has been speaking out against sexual sins of Priests for the past decade.

Aside from that, I think that this is a good move for the Church. It shows that His Holiness is serious about solving these problems and that he will be involved in decisions about how the Church is going to deal with this serious problem.

God bless.

Lord Jesus Christ, thou Good Physician, heal thy Church, we beseech thee.

3 posted on 04/15/2002 12:19:48 PM PDT by Gophack
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To: All
This is not to address wrongs; rather it is a damage control session. Although I'm not fan of the non-Scripturally based Catholic Church, on the whole I've always had a good opinion of JPII. If he brushes this under the rug, (i.e., Cardinal Law is not demoted nor removed from his ofc), then these cheeseball "priests" and their "protectors" got away with everything. They molested young children, under the cover of Christianity, and where not only NOT disciplined but aided and abetted by this church to get away with it. SHAME!!!
4 posted on 04/15/2002 12:23:35 PM PDT by Malcolm
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To: Gophack
The Pope has been speaking out against sexual sins of Priests for the past decade.

The press relish the opportunity to paint the Pope in as bad a light as possible for whatever reason. I am praying for God to make good use of this papal summoning, and for the Church in America to be delivered from certain prelates and homosexual predator/priests.as a result.

Mary, Queen of All Saints, pray for us.

5 posted on 04/15/2002 12:25:35 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: Malcolm
Dear Malcom, join us Catholic FReepers in prayer for justice for the victims, and prayer for the Pope to clean house. Every prayer counts.
6 posted on 04/15/2002 12:27:38 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: Malcolm
It says these priests face allegations. You have them tried and convicted. I'm a Protestant, but, can clearly see an attack by the left in these over inflated numbers.
7 posted on 04/15/2002 12:27:46 PM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: history_matters
The ONLY solution to this problem is for the Pope to announce that Rome is going to begin asserting its authority over the Catholic Church in America. Catholics who publicly support abortion, homosexual behavior, capital punishment, etc. will be ex-communicated (I realize many Conservatives favor the death penalty - however, we cannot be hypocrites here - "cafeteria Catholicism" is one of the problems). Harkin will go, Kennedy will go, lots of them will be ousted. Next, he must purge the seminaries of the homosexuals who have infested them since the 60's. He MUST insist that Catholic colleges and universities espouse Catholic doctrine and abide by it - that means, for example, no more showing of the Vagina Chronicles on Catholic campuses. Period. It's time to clean house!!!
8 posted on 04/15/2002 12:29:03 PM PDT by PLK
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To: Malcolm
I disagree with your post on several points. First, the Pope has repeatedly and emphatically spoken out against sexual sins of priests. Second, I do not believe that this is a "damage control" session ... this is a serious matter and is being dealt with severely by the Vatican. I commend the decision of the Pope to bring the Cardinals to the Vatican and deal head-on with these crimes.

Finally, the Catholic Church is Scripturally based. Our faith is entirely grounded in Scripture, and Scripture is an important part of every Mass. If you have a problem with a specific Catholic doctrine or belief that you believe is not scripturally based, I would happy answer your question if I at all can.

God bless.

9 posted on 04/15/2002 12:31:07 PM PDT by Gophack
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To: Malcolm
non-Scripturally based Catholic Church... Jesus and his disciples and my Church came BEFORE the scriptures - please check your ignorant biases at the FR door.
10 posted on 04/15/2002 12:31:18 PM PDT by epluribus_2
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To: PLK
Have you seen Father Elijah's Action Plan that he posted for Catholic FReepers. He posted it a while ago, and matters have gotten worse since. But it is an excellent guide for what we should do> Father Elijah's Action Plan for Catholic FReepers and other Catholics
11 posted on 04/15/2002 12:32:50 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
Adding to my special intentions.
12 posted on 04/15/2002 12:34:06 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: PLK
I agree wholeheartedly with your post, but I want to clarify your comments on the death penalty.

The Catholic Church has never opposed the death penalty. According to EWTNs Q&A board which I found has a good summary of the Church's position, it says:

The Church's teaching has not changed, nor has the Pope said that it has. The Catechism and the Pope state that the state has the right to exact the death penalty. Nations have the right to just war and individuals have the right to self-defense. Does that means that any and all uses of force to defend oneself against a criminal, or a criminal nation, are justified? No, and most people understand that.

Here's the link because it's good stuff, but I don't want to reprint it all here on this thread. In summary, there must be no other option to protect the public good for capital punishment to be just. Capital Punishment

God bless.

13 posted on 04/15/2002 12:35:02 PM PDT by Gophack
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To: history_matters
The Pope should address the abortions on nuns that the priests have arranged in Africa while he's at it...
14 posted on 04/15/2002 12:36:14 PM PDT by codebreaker
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To: Lady In Blue; dansangel; EODGUY; Angelique; ventana; roachie; constitutiongirl; goldenstategirl...
p i n g
15 posted on 04/15/2002 12:36:15 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: codebreaker
He needs to clean house of all the sexual fiends in the priesthood and the episcopate all around the world.
16 posted on 04/15/2002 12:37:53 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: Mike Fieschko; tiki; Clemenza; victim soul
p i n g
17 posted on 04/15/2002 12:40:29 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
I think we'll see some resignations after next week.

At least I HOPE.

18 posted on 04/15/2002 12:41:35 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: history_matters
You got it...

Abortions on Nuns in Africa-Provided for by Priests

19 posted on 04/15/2002 12:41:41 PM PDT by codebreaker
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: history_matters
May your continual pity, O Lord, cleanse and defend Your Church;
and, because without you she cannot endure in safety,
may she ever be governed by Your bounty.

Through our Lord Jesus Christ, Your Son,
Who lives and reigns with You in the unity of the Holy Spirit,
God, world without end.
Amen.

+

O glorious St. Michael,
guardian and defender of the Church of Jesus Christ,
come to the assistance of this Church,
against which the powers of hell are unchained,
guard with especial care her august Head,
and obtain that for him and for us the hour of triumph may speedily arrive.

O glorious Archangel St. Michael,
watch over us during life, defend us against the assaults of the demon,
assist us especially at the hour of death;
obtain for us a favorable judgment, and the happiness
of beholding God face to face for endless ages.
Amen.

+
 
 


21 posted on 04/15/2002 1:13:09 PM PDT by B-Chan
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To: history_matters
bump
22 posted on 04/15/2002 1:13:53 PM PDT by ELS
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To: history_matters
If we've learned anything from the past 40 years, I hope we've learned that faithful, orthodox Catholics must be heard from at this time, lest like Vatican II this latest initiative for reform be hijacked by innovators and subversives. We need to make our voices heard at the parochial, diocesan, and national levels, and in Rome.
23 posted on 04/15/2002 1:23:52 PM PDT by Romulus
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: Romulus
If we've learned anything from the past 40 years, I hope we've learned that faithful, orthodox Catholics must be heard from at this time, lest like Vatican II this latest initiative for reform be hijacked by innovators and subversives. We need to make our voices heard at the parochial, diocesan, and national levels, and in Rome.

YES! We need to write letters, respectful, identify ourselves as Catholic, praise God, and ask that the Vatican lead the initiative to clean house.

25 posted on 04/15/2002 1:28:55 PM PDT by Gophack
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To: Lemonhead
I guarentee you that the Latin Mass is the answer to every problem the Church has now.

Say what? I think not. The problem is that priests aren't assenting to Church teaching on sexuality.

26 posted on 04/15/2002 1:34:14 PM PDT by jrherreid
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To: goldenstategirl
I think we'll see some resignations after next week. At least I HOPE. You hit on the nail! We have renewed HOPE by this Papal call up. We need to really kick up the prayer power for this though.
27 posted on 04/15/2002 1:37:17 PM PDT by Domestic Church
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: Gophack
Where do we write the letters? Ecclesia Dei?
29 posted on 04/15/2002 1:41:13 PM PDT by Domestic Church
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To: Gophack
The Pope has been speaking out against sexual sins of Priests for the past decade.

Can you find any specific references JP II has made to this scandal over the last decade?

Somebody said yesterday that he has been taking the American Church to task since 1983, but I don't remember him saying anything before last month.

One of the lone voices in the wilderness in the '80s was Andrew Greeley, who said on a Donahue show back then that priestly pederasty would become the "biggest scandal in Church history."

30 posted on 04/15/2002 1:49:02 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
Question for Catholic freepers: When the Cardinals meet (this would refer more to, say, the meeting that will announce the next pope rather than this one) what language do they speak in? Latin? English? Italian?
31 posted on 04/15/2002 1:51:42 PM PDT by AmishDude
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To: Lemonhead
I hope our Holy Father tells the Archbishops to reinstate the Tridentine Latin Mass at every parish in the USA and world.

I guarentee you that the Latin Mass is the answer to every problem the Church has now.

With all due respect, there is no basis in fact to support your contention.

Many of the priests (like Geoghan and Porter) were ordained or were in seminary BEFORE Vatican II.

This is a recruiting problem, not a liturgical problem.

32 posted on 04/15/2002 1:53:55 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
Somebody said yesterday that he has been taking the American Church to task since 1983, but I don't remember him saying anything before last month.

I believe is was 1993 and he was in America or the Americas when he condemned sexual sins in the priesthood. I can't remember where I read it, but it was here on FR. Someone posted an article from the time the Pope spoke up in reply to that he "just broke his silence" on this scandal.

Tonight I'll do a little research and see if I can find it. Maybe someone else has it handy.

33 posted on 04/15/2002 1:57:17 PM PDT by Gophack
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To: AmishDude
Every Cardinal is provided a translator so that he can understand in his native language.

At a conclave, there are ceremonial proceedings in Latin that take place; other pronouncements would probably be made in Italian.

Even these old Cardinals wouldn't do very well in conversational Latin.

34 posted on 04/15/2002 1:57:48 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: history_matters
If the US bishops act true to form, they will listen politely while the Holy Father speaks, nod their heads, then go away and do whatever it was they intended to do in the first place.

Which is probably very little.

35 posted on 04/15/2002 2:02:00 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: Lemonhead
I guarentee you that the Latin Mass is the answer to every problem the [Catholic] Church has now

There is no hope for these people. Only a member of a cult would say something as ridiculous as the above and actually mean it.....

36 posted on 04/15/2002 2:09:14 PM PDT by Malcolm
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To: history_matters
I'd like to see him get the American hierarchy in the same room, open the session with a prayer and then bring in the Swiss Guards to haul them off to retirement in a monastery. If he's going to fire a cardinal, all the better to do it in Rome and keep the guy locked up there so he can't go on Larry King Live the next day.
37 posted on 04/15/2002 2:10:50 PM PDT by Stingray51
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To: Sola Sola
I understand that you have major problems with some tenets of the Catholic Church, and I hope to use this opportunity to explain a little about the foundations of the Church and why we believe that the Church is the true Church as established by Jesus Christ in the gospels.

First, you assert that the authority the Catholic Church has, it gave to itself. I would argue that Jesus Christ gave the apostles the authority to teach the word of God:

Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age." (Mt 28:18-20)

"Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me." (Mt 10:40)

Do we agree that Jesus gave his disciples, the Apostles, the command to go out and spread the word of God, to "teach" the commandments? To share the "good news"? I think we do.

Catholics believe that Jesus made his Church on earth and put Peter, his apostle, as the head of the Church.

"And so I say to you, you are 'Rock', and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Mt 16:18-19)

"If he refuses to listen to them (two or three witnesses), tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector." (Mt 18:17)

Jesus distinctly gives Peter the command to tend to his flock, the people:

When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs." He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep." He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." (Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep." (Jn 21:15-17)

Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the holy Spirit has appointed you overseers (episcopous), in which you tend the church of God that he acquired with his own blood. (Acts 20:28)

After St. Peter, the first Pope, there is a clear line of succession. Not all Pope's were good men; indeed, some Pope's led very sinful lives. But the church itself is holy: Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But it's important to note that not one iota of doctine has been changed: the bad Pope's had no role in saying that Christianity meant anything other than what it meant since the time of Christ.

I hope that you read why I wrote with an open heart, and think about it. I'm not trying to convert you, but to show you that the Catholic Church IS scripturally based, and that we hold fast TO scripture as the inspired word of God. That everything we do, and all our prayers, are directed to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the Holy Trinity that all Christians -- Catholic and non-Catholic -- believe in.

God bless.

38 posted on 04/15/2002 2:29:39 PM PDT by Gophack
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To: history_matters
Bump
39 posted on 04/15/2002 2:42:35 PM PDT by jokar
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To: marshmallow
Which brings up an interesting next point. What will be done then? Will this be taken to the next level? Will Rome threaten to defrock or excommunicate them? Will the liberal American bishops schism and start an "American Catholic Church"? I'm interested to hear what other Catholics think might happen.
40 posted on 04/15/2002 2:49:36 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Gophack
Not to be contrary, but I do not believe that the Catholic Church is the exclusive Church. Never will.
41 posted on 04/15/2002 2:57:03 PM PDT by Malcolm
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To: sinkspur
I figured as much, but I wasn't sure if they were required to learn it or some other "common" language in order to communicate with each other.
42 posted on 04/15/2002 3:00:24 PM PDT by AmishDude
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To: Gophack
You wrote:

I understand that you have major problems with some tenets of the Catholic Church...

And indeed your comment seems kind of foolish, now that you have had MINE removed. (#28)

My point was, simply, that it is the very PREMISE of the Roman Church that has invited the scandal which has now befallen it.

The responsibility is now YOURS for preventing other victims from seeing that.

An awesome responsibility, I would say.

Care to discuss it OPENLY?
43 posted on 04/15/2002 3:35:52 PM PDT by Sola Sola
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To: goldenstategirl
I just heard on foxnews cable that the authorities might be going to charge Cardinal Law...maybe he will now stay in Rome.
44 posted on 04/15/2002 4:54:29 PM PDT by Domestic Church
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To: marshmallow
If the US bishops act true to form, they will listen politely while the Holy Father speaks, nod their heads, then go away and do whatever it was they intended to do in the first place.

Sigh...that is my fear.

It reminds me of the difference I noticed in how my teenage daughters reacted (as opposed to how I reacted to my parents) when told something they didn't want to hear. My daughters would listen to me patiently, and politely agree with everything I said, "Yes, m'am" and "no, m'am" they would say. Then they would proceed to ignore the directive and do whatever they wanted. They were smart, they knew I couldn't watch them 100% of the time. I, on the other hand, got whacked up side the head a number of times for "smart-mouthing" and arguing with my parents.

45 posted on 04/15/2002 5:02:26 PM PDT by Nubbin
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To: history_matters
Thanks for the ping.
46 posted on 04/15/2002 5:41:52 PM PDT by Lady In Blue
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To: Domestic Church
Oh my. This could create some new and interesting possibilities. Will he pack his bags for a one-way trip and find a new job in the Vatican? I hope that if charges are brought he will be sent back to the US. It will create more problems if he is not.
47 posted on 04/15/2002 5:46:24 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: goldenstategirl
The Pope could imprison Law and others at the Vatican. I know others say that is an impossibility, but I somehow think it is more likely than his going to jail in America.
48 posted on 04/15/2002 5:51:28 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
That's an interesting thought. If he does, I hope he makes it very clear that's what he's doing so that detractors cannot accuse him of providing sanctuary for possible criminals.
49 posted on 04/15/2002 6:11:00 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: history_matters
I have a gut feeling that the charges are a spin job...just turning the heat up a notch but then again, maybe not.
50 posted on 04/15/2002 6:12:47 PM PDT by Domestic Church
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