Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Waco Massacre at Mount Carmel
Constitution Society ^ | n/a | n/a

Posted on 04/19/2002 7:09:54 AM PDT by NMC EXP

On February 28, 1993, a team of agents of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) launched an assault on the premises of a religious community called Mount Carmel, outside Waco, Texas, occupied by a sect called the Branch Davidians, led by a man named Vernon Howell, who had assumed the name David Koresh. Ostensibly to serve a search and arrest warrant, the raid resulted in a shootout in which four ATF agents and six Davidians were killed. This was followed by a takeover of the operation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Hostage Rescue Team and a 51-day standoff, which ended in an assault on the premises on April 19, 1993, and a fire in which 76 of the occupants died, including many women and children.

The circumstances of the assault brought intense criticism of the way government agents handled the situation. This criticism was further intensified by the way many of the surviving Davidians were prosecuted in a trial held in San Antonio, Texas, during March, 1994. This trial has been characterized as a monument to prosecutorial and judicial abuse, and it, as much as the assault on Mount Carmel itself, caused persons to call for the muster everywhere of militias to restore compliance with the Constitution and to the modern militia movement.

A report was prepared by the Treasury Department, of which the ATF is a part, which contained a part, Appendix G, which revealed more than perhaps the government intended about the thinking of government agents in this incident. There were also congressional hearings held which most observers found unsatisfactory. There are persistent calls for criminal prosecution of the agents responsible which have been ignored.

What follows are links to sites and documents which provide more details on this tragedy and the government which perpetrated it. The issues raised remain unresolved, and have been joined by criticisms of many other incidents of corruption and abuse by government agencies and private interests allied with them.

1. Waco: A New Revelation — Latest on the assault on Mount Carmel, with new footage indicating the burnout of the Davidians was intentional.
2. Waco: The Rules of Engagement. This is a film composed of footage taken of the events at Mount Carmel, including infrared footage taken from government surveillance aircraft, and subsequent investigations. Nominated for Academy Award and winner of an Emmy for best documentary. It is available from Somford Entertainment, 8778 Sunset Blvd. 2nd Flr, Los Angeles, CA 90069, 310/289-3900, 289-3909 fax. See their site at, or email, for details on showings and ways you can get the film shown in your area. See the following reviews and comments:
a) Review of the film by the San Francisco Chronicle.
b) Comments on the above review by Jon Roland.
3. Davidian Massacre — From the Committee for Waco Justice, Box 65518, Washington, DC 20035, 202/635-3739. Headed by Carol Moore. This is the main legal fund for the civil case of the surviving Davidians against the U.S. government. Includes text of Moore's book by the same name.
4. No More Wacos — Book promoted by Independence Institute.
5. Chris Walker Waco Page — Extensive collection of links and documents.
6. Waco Museum — Archive of photos and documents on the massacre, plus some conspiracy theories, from Carol Valentine.
7. LaRosa Reports, by Benedict D. LaRosa. Includes "The Real Reason Behind Gun Control" — A discussion of Appendix G to the Treasury Department Report and what it reveals. Originally published in the SA News, an alternative newspaper in San Antonio, Texas, Jan 27-Feb 10, 1994.
8. Treasury Department Report on Waco, Appendix G — Disturbingly candid revelation of the government's view.
9. The Branch Davidian Trial, by Egon Richard Tausch, an attorney and part of the defense team.
10. Shade's Landing Waco Page — Another collection of documentation and articles.
11. The Waco Affidavit — Transcript of the affidavit used by the BATF in order to obtain a search warrant of the Branch Davidian center in Waco, TX.
12. Jury Instructions — Instructions to jurors in the Davidian Trial, with commentary. Good example of how the cause of justice can be subverted by a judge.
13. Sentencing Memorandum — Judge Smith reverses his own earlier ruling that the defendants could not be convicted of enhancements to offenses to which they had been acquitted. Outstanding example of judicial sophistry and misconduct. At one point he candidly stated that a ruling "does not have to be logical".
14. Waco Documentary is a Hoax?
a) Charge by Carol Valentine
b) Response from Ian Goddard
15. Did the Federal Government start the Waco fire?
16. Roland Research — Analysis of FLIR imagery.

TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: atf; branchdavidians; fbi; waco
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-25 next last
Today is the anniversary of the massacre at Waco. Please go to to access the links shown here.
1 posted on 04/19/2002 7:09:54 AM PDT by NMC EXP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

Waco is always overshawdowed by OKC bombing and pretty much forgotten by the media. But this is one of the greatest slaughters of Americans on American soil by the American Govt. since the Indian massacures. If Waco didn't happen, OKC would have never happened! God rest their souls as well as the OKC bombing victims!
2 posted on 04/19/2002 7:39:55 AM PDT by Bommer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

3 posted on 04/19/2002 7:42:38 AM PDT by Centurion2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bommer
Thanks for the reply.



4 posted on 04/19/2002 7:55:41 AM PDT by NMC EXP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

Lots of old threads here: TOPIC : WACO

''Investigation into the Activities of Federal Law Enforcement Agencies Toward the Branch Davidians''
House Report No. 104-749, August 2, 1996.

...H. Presidential Involvement in the Events at Waco, TX:
The involvement of the White House occurred in several ways. According to White House Chief of Staff Mack McLarty, two parallel lines of communication existed_one from Acting Assistant Attorney General Stuart Gerson to McLarty, and the other from Gerson to White House Counsel Bernard Nussbaum.
Senior advisor Bruce Lindsey [Bruce who?] also kept informed on developments in Waco.(598)
...No White House officials objected to the plan to end the standoff at an April 13, 1993 meeting between White House and Justice Department officials, including Hubbell, Nussbaum, Lindsey [Lindsey? Bruce Lindsey?] and Deputy White House Counsel Vince Foster ..
\598\ Justice Department Report at 242."

5 posted on 04/19/2002 8:17:28 AM PDT by mrsmith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

But hey with Bush in office, they're our JBTs now.

I saw Rules of Engagement, and it was chilling. Especially repellant was the callousness of the donut ninjas.

6 posted on 04/19/2002 8:29:53 AM PDT by Tauzero
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

"Don't call Randy Weaver paranoid. His worst fears about the government have already come true." Jonathan Karl
Take a moment to picture this...

7 posted on 04/19/2002 8:32:13 AM PDT by luvzhottea
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: luvzhottea
Optics expert rebuts Waco standoff report
8 posted on 04/19/2002 9:03:44 AM PDT by Tymesup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

9 posted on 04/19/2002 9:06:48 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Oh, I know! Let's have yet another multi-million dollar investigation that comes to the same conclusions that the original investigation reached! Maybe eventually the thick-skulled Waco/OKC Junkies will accept the fact that the government closed ranks a long time ago. Nothing new will ever surface.
10 posted on 04/19/2002 9:11:57 AM PDT by Destructor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Our government -- defenders of our liberty.

What a joke.

11 posted on 04/19/2002 9:14:50 AM PDT by Rule of Law
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

"At Waco, was there really an urgency to get those people out of the compound at that particular time? Was the press going to make it look heroic for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms? At Ruby Ridge, there was one guy in a cabin at the top of the mountain. Was it necessary for federal agents to go up there and shoot a 14-year-old in the back and shoot a woman with a child in her arms? What kind of mentality does that?"
-- Clint Eastwood in Parade Magazine, January 12, 1997
12 posted on 04/19/2002 9:15:00 AM PDT by luvzhottea
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Destructor
Do you advocate the "Oh well, BOHICA" response/reaction?



13 posted on 04/19/2002 10:09:38 AM PDT by NMC EXP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: luvzhottea
Clint Eastwood in Parade Magazine, January 12, 1997

Good thing Clint has his own production company. He'd never work in hollyweird otherwise.



14 posted on 04/19/2002 10:11:42 AM PDT by NMC EXP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: NMC EXP;all

Ghosts of Waco haunt the ruins


-David T. Hardy: An Interview With American Gun Owners' Best Friend ( & Waco )--

FBI, Delta Force, ATF, All fire Shots into Mt. Carmal killing children

GOVERNMENT TERRORISM - From Ruby Ridge To Waco And Beyond

Waco: A New Revelation, Reviewed by Gavin Phillips [Free ...
... Waco: A New Revelation, Reviewed by Gavin Phillips News/Current Events Opinion
Keywords: WACO,MCNULTY, DOCUMENTARY Source: Waco: A New Revelation Published ...
Description: Raises questions about a documentary film and suggests violation of human rights in the Waco incident.
Category: Regional > North America > ... > Politics > Issues > Human Rights and Liberties - 46k - Cached - Similar pages

Topic: Waco ... WACO: The Rules of Engagement - "No
Doubt the Original Raid Was Publicity Stunt". ...

Downside Legacy Research: WACO - Carlos Ghigliotti Death ( ...
... Downside Legacy Research: WACO - Carlos Ghigliotti Death (Thread 2) Crime/Corruption
Extended News News Source: Various FR Posters Published: 5/3/00 Author ... - 101k - Cached - Similar pages

Cuban-Americans walk out of Florida House during Janet Reno ...
... To: Oldeconomybuyer. Anyone who stayed as Jake Reno, the Waco barbequer of children
and facist director who ordered the kidnapping of Elain at gun point, should ... - 58k - Cached - Similar pages

Murder, Inc. [Free Republic]
... from TPDL 2000-May-1, from the Washington Post 2000-Apr-29 p.B3,
by Cindy Loose: Waco Siege Investigator Found Dead In His Home. ... - 101k - Cached - Similar pages

Important Information for FReepers, Lurkers and Sheeple [Free ...
- TRAGEDY - OKLAHOMA CITY (168+19 TOTAL). DEATHS ... - 101k - Cached - Similar pages

VINCE FOSTER - Timeline of Events [Free Republic]
... I have long believed that the truth will establish a link bewteen Foster's murder
and either the murdres at Waco or the secret trips to Switzerland, or both. ... - 101k - Cached - Similar pages

A link to a whole lot of Elian! Links:

Elian! Elian! Elian! Elian! Elian! Elian! Elian! and yes, even more, Elian!

15 posted on 04/19/2002 10:17:34 AM PDT by backhoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

"Do you advocate the "Oh well, BOHICA" response/reaction?"



Okay. If you have all the answers maybe you could answer these questions: Where does it end? How many "investigations" have there been to date? Do you even know? What were the end results of those "investigations?" Who took the fall for the people that were supposed to be in charge? Did we learn anything new from any of the previous "investigations?" How many more millions of dollars do we have to spend to satisby all of the people that are obsessed with Waco/OKC?

Some of us view the "BOHICA response/reaction," as being forced to pay for a never ending series of "investigations" that produce no new results! It is over! Learn to live with it.

16 posted on 04/19/2002 10:39:57 AM PDT by Destructor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Destructor
It is over!

It's not over until justice is done.

Learn to live with it.

That is a phrase that flat grinds my guts. It represents a willingness to join the race to the bottom, it translates into "when all else fails, lower your standards". It says be a happy part of the lowest common denominator.

No thanks.



17 posted on 04/19/2002 11:16:27 AM PDT by NMC EXP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

You don't understand. With regards to Waco/OKC- Justice will never be done! In the post Clinton era "Justice" means "Just Us Liberals/Socialists!" O.J. Simpson bought all the "Justice" he needed to be aquitted of murder. All of the Bureaucrats in the BATF and FBI that presided over the massacre at Waco got promoted!! In Philadelphia, "Justice" is held hostage by Blacks that threaten "Rodney King style riots," if they don't get what they want. If you're looking for Justice, then you're about 60 years too late!

IMHO it makes no sense to waste more of our precious resources in a blind pursuit of something that we will never have- Justice! The Past is just that past! Let's concentrate on the Future, and trying to prevent such outrages from ever occurring again!

18 posted on 04/19/2002 1:28:14 PM PDT by Destructor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Destructor
Correction: Cincinnati not Philadelphia.
19 posted on 04/19/2002 1:46:14 PM PDT by Destructor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Destructor
I do not advocate more investigations of the govt by the govt. I posted this because we must not forget.

A lot of media blather today about OKC and Columbine. Waco has been relegated to the memory hole.



20 posted on 04/19/2002 4:56:26 PM PDT by NMC EXP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-25 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794 is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson