Posted on 04/21/2002 8:06:46 PM PDT by A. Pole
Clintoon destroyed Milosevic’s chances of defeating the muslims that invaded his country. Pray to God that GWB does not do the same to Sharon!
Are you as ignorant as you seem? The Croats never paid? Excuse me! What happened at Bleiburg? Did you hear of the Death Marches? Did you hear Milovan Djilas say that in order for Yugoslavia to live, Croatia must die?
He wasn't meant to be taken literally, Tropoljac. And to tell you the truth, this is the first time I've heard the motto. Anyway, he meant "Nazi Croatia". I am sure he had nothing against the post-WWII Croatian government(s). However, I am sure that you have heard of the "Weak Serbia - Strong Yugoslavia" policy. Can you get it into your head that the Communists were destroying the sense of NATIONALITY in order to create a fake one (the Yugoslav)? Why were the Macedonians given the state (25,000 square kilometres of the Serbian territory chopped off at the drop of a hat) and, yes, the "language"? Why weren't the Slovenes targeted? Why were the Muslims treated like royalty and were, in fact, GIVEN the status of a NATIONALITY based on their RELIGION (which must be the only such example in the history of the universe)? Why were the Montenegrins proclaimed a separate nationality from the Serbian? Why was Serbia cut into three pieces and not any other republic? Do you really think the Commies have done more harm to you than they did to us?
What happened at Bleiburg? Who paid the price? A few thousand Croat Nazi stormtroopers and their "flowers" from SS Handzhar? Am I supposed to feel sorry? Are you NUTS???Why did the Brits turn them over to Tito? Do you think Winston would've been any gentler? Would he sh_t!
There is a great difference between shooting down a few thousands of Nazi collaborators/active soldiery who are trying to flee the country and you are on their asses, and a cold-blooded, premeditated, calculated murder of 700,000 civilians, Tropoljac. The latter is my point -- why was nobody ever held responsible for that?
They didn't teach that in your communist schools, did they?
No, they did not. But then again, they did not teach us about the 500+ U.S. airmen who had been rescued by the Chetniks, either. Nor did they teach us that it was, in fact, the Chetniks who had liberated a quarter of Serbia by 1943 and not the Partisans.
Who? Ustashe?
No, The Beatles! Who else???
Name one Ustasha who was allowed to put a red star on. It was policy with the Partisans to allow Serbian Chetniks to switch sides (which they did en masse in my county), but the death penalty was reserved for Ustashe and Montengrin Greens.
The small fish were allowed. The Chetniks were either all killed or had fled to the only country who'd recognized their bravery - the USA. Those who switched sides were ordinary tossers not worth killing. They were not killed, but were terrorized for the rest of their lives by the the OZNA, then the UDBA and then the SDB.
So, the Partisans now had a "policy", eh? Come on, Tropoljac! The only policy they had was to eliminate EVERYONE who posed ANY threat. They didn't give much sh_t as to the nationality of their victims.
The Montenegrin Greens (note to our non-Yugoslav readers: we're not talkin' environmental do-gooders) were not an issue - ever. The Montenegrin Chetniks took care of them at the very beginning.
Learn a little history, I know that you're a smart guy.
History has always been my favourite subject. Just because I am good re. the period from the X-to-XIV-century Rascia/Serbia, it doesn't mean that I don't know anything about WWI/WWII. Always willing to learn...
Do you mean the communist genocide against the Croats?
No, I mean the Croatian genocide against the Serbs and the Jews. How many Croats did the Commies kill? Factor that by 10 and you'll still be short of the number of dead Serbs.
That's right, we wanted no part of Yugo, we were forced into it. We don't like commies and communism.
Again - why did you wait for 2 1/2 decades to go by? Why didn't you opt out in 1945/6? The 50s? The 60s? 1972-1991?
And in WWII, you didn't like the Serbs or Zhidovs, either. Correct me if I am wrong.
I wish you did, but you weren't done exploiting the wealth of Croatia and Slovenia.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! What "wealth", dude??? What natural wealth do either of those two republics possess? Croatia was living off its tourism and Slovenia was assembling freezers, stoves and micro-wave ovens that SERBIA had sent the raw materials for. They were making freaking furniture out of the lumber that Serbia and Bosnia sent them and were packing the already-processed Serbian sugar into 1g bags for the use onboard JAT airplanes! Vojvodina/Serbia was feeding Yugoslavia from Bitola to Maribor. Serbia possessed the sh*t needed for every industry the SFRY ever had - from oil and gas to gold, zinc, silver and copper to maze, corn, edible oil, sugar, and soya beans to weaponry, tanks, aircraft, trains and cars.
You got BILLIONS for your fancy hotels on the Adriatic and you worked 3 months a year and then it was back to spanking the monkey till next June.
Evidence please?
(…) Most such killers were astute enough to know better than to surrender to the British. Indeed, many of these people made their way to safety by devious routes and through hazardous stratagems. Although Tito and his aides actually carried out this "Operation Slaughterhouse," the British military authorities bear a moral responsibility.
"Between May 3, 1945, when the Department of State agreed to the proposal of Prime Minister Churchill that after deposition of arms Croatians be accepted as prisoners of war, and May 31, 1945, there is no trace of any American reaction to the events. As we have seen, on May 15, 1945, SACMED gave the order to General Patrick Scott in Bleiburg to force Croatians to surrender to Yugoslav Communist forces.
The British were obligated by the Geneva Convention and by the laws of war to accept the Croatian surrender and to give the retreating Croat Army and civilian population sanctuary to protect them from Partisan vengeance.
(source: http://www.croatia.net/bleiburg)
Interesting. I thought the Geneva Convention went into force on October 21, 1950 – full five and a half years after Bleiburg. Also, isn't it cute how these same Croats -- who DID NOTHING (and had probably even participated in the genocide) as their country murdered 700,000 people -- expected to be given "sanctuary"?
you have no concept of what the Holocaust was
Sandnes responded:
During the Second World War the largest and quickest massacre of innocent civilians was done by the US at Hiroshima (and also arguably the largest medical experiment).
1. This was not genocide. We saved millions of Japanese lives by forcing them to surrender. Had we invaded, there would be millions of casualties. Take a look at the casualties from the Ryukus campaign and extrapolate.
2. Actually the Japanese are the ones who performed medical experiments by modifiying and dropping biological agents and carriers on Chinese civilians. They did this for 10 years killing millions of Chinese civiilians.
Even the Germans couldn't top that!
They wanted too.
At any rate, comparing a military operation to the Holocaust only shows your moral relativism.
FYI, I am quite aware of the circumstances of the Jewish Holocaust.
And the death of the Roma?
At any rate, if you were, you would note be comparing the death of fewer than 1000 people to the Holocaust. If Isreal wanted to wipe out the Palestinians, it could. Heck, the Israeli's could have leveled Jenin from the air. Instead they went hunting terrorists.
Don't be such a pompous and predictable ass!
The Pot is calling the Kettle black.
1. This was not genocide. We saved millions of Japanese lives by forcing them to surrender.
SANDNES responded
So the flash massacre of 100, 000 civillians was necessary was it? I am glad you can convince yourself that holocausting is a necessary part of warfare. I am sure the Japanese people will be glad to hear that Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved a lot of their lives. It is the first time I have heard that excuse. I would take a trip over to Hiroshima and explain it to them, although I fear ,you would be strung up on a lampost before you had steadied yourself on your soap box.
1. It isn't our fault that the Japanese military wanted to fight to the end and were willing to see teh death of millions of their own subjects in teh hope of wearing down the Americans. Tojo cared more about his empire than hjis people.
2. The Atomic bombings did not save the lives of the people who died. It was also horrible on the survivng denizens of those cities. However, the bombings saved millions of other Japanese.
3. This is not a novel theory. Utnil the Commies took over History departments, it was the standard reasoning.
Both cities were left undamaged ready to accept the bombs, one fusion and one fission. When the Hiroshima bomb was dropped, other instruments were dropped with it ( A japanese observer saw 5 'bombs' come out of the Enola Gay). Anybody seen the scientific results??
1. We did not drop a Fusion bomb on either city. Hydrogen Bombs did not exist for another 4 years. We dropped one Plutonium and one Uranium bomb.
3. We were planning to use our Third deployable bomb on Tokyo, a city we have leveled from convetional and Firebombings. (People forget that more people in Tokyo died in a single fire bombing than died in either nuclear attack.)
2. Actually the Japanese are the ones who performed medical experiments by modifiying and dropping biological agents and carriers on Chinese civilians. They did this for 10 years killing millions of Chinese civiilians.
Are you sure you are not getting mixed up with that more recent event in Vietnam.--They were fighting some...ism then weren't they and millions were killed.
No, look up the Japanese Medical unit at Harbin. They performed Mendelle like experiments on a wide scale. They also made bombs carried Plague-infected fleas and other biological wepaons used by the Japanese against civilians in the war.
Sounds like you want too. Maybe it would be better to have levelled Jenin as you say then:
'We saved millions of ' Palestinian ' lives by forcing them to surrender. '
Don't be such a pompous, bigoted and predictable ass!
I may be arrogant, but you are detached from reality and fact.
Look at the Forbes magazine and you'll find that George Bush can't afford to do the same to Sharon!
Theres a missed point here, Serbia along with Greece, Bulgaria and Albaina gained Macedonian territories in the 1912 Treaty of Bucharest, which was divided by Western Powers. They only returned some of the occupied land to Macedonia. Serbia still holds Macedonian territory up to Nis.
Theres a missed point here, Serbia along with Greece, Bulgaria and Albaina gained Macedonian territories in the 1912 Treaty of Bucharest, which was divided by Western Powers. They only returned some of the occupied land to Macedonia. Serbia still holds Macedonian territory up to Nis.
Albania hadn't not even existed prior to 12/1912. The decision to create the country of Albania was made at the London Conference, held in December 1912. Albania was created at the insistence of Italy and Austria-Hungary (for their own end, needless to say).
Albania wasn't even involved in the Balkan Wars. Therefore, Albanian delegates couldn't have possibly been present in Bucharest (the conference, BTW, was held in August 1913, not in 1912).
Moreover, it was not Macedonia that had been divided, but the Ottoman land which they themselves had occupied (i.e. had stolen from the various Balkan empires), beginning in the XIV century. Before the Ottomans arrived to the present day (Slavic) Macedonia, that land was part of Serbia [see map link below]. What's more, Skopje (the capital of present-day Macedonia) was the capital of the Serbian Empire of Czar Dushan the Forceful (ruled 1330-1355); photo: Coat of Arms of Skopje, showing the Serbian double-headed eagle, c. 1350.
[map: Historic boundaries of Serbia; As you can see, Macedonia was part of Serbia before the Turks reached the Serbian Empire (1355). By the time of the Battle of Kosovo (1389), Macedonia had already been taken from Serbia by the Ottomans. It remained under Turkish occupation until the First Balkan War (1912)].
Macedonia had no sovereignty -- i.e. wasn't a state -- the entire 2nd millennium. Thus, your theory of Macedonia owning the swath of land "up to Nish" is laughable at best. In 1946, the Communists stole Macedonia from Serbia and created the "Socialist Republic of Macedonia". Macedonia had had no sovereignty to speak of until 1992.
Thank you for your attention.
Real objective source!
Did the US have scientific and medical ships at Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the war? Yes!
Does this prove some conspracy to conduct experiments?
Only in the minds of those who presume this conspiracy. It is circular reasoning.
We had ships there to look at the damage, survey the effects, and treat the victims.
One does not drop an experimental weapon on enemy territory to find its effects. The fact is that the US scientists exposed themselves to radiation because know-one understood what was going on.
We had ships and units surveying the damage to find this out. This isn't nefarious. Instead, it laid the groundwork for these cities to be rebuilt
Because I'm feeling good today I'll give you some info on who the Macedonians are:
http://www.makedonika.org/processpaid.aspcontentid=ti.2001.pdf
And also a bit about their history:
http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/index1.html
Here you'll find all the answers you need to solve youre confused mind.
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