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Text of Pope's Address to U.S. Cardinals
MSNBC ^ | 23 April A.D. 2002 | Pope John Paul II

Posted on 04/23/2002 7:18:12 AM PDT by history_matters

Dear Brothers,

               1. Let me assure you first of all that I greatly appreciate the effort you are making to keep the Holy See, and me personally, informed regarding the complex and difficult situation which has arisen in your country in recent months. I am confident that your discussions here will bear much fruit for the good of the Catholic people of the United States. You have come to the house of the Successor of Peter, whose task it is to confirm his brother Bishops in faith and love, and to unite them around Christ in the service of God’s People. The door of this house is always open to you. All the more so when your communities are in distress.

               Like you, I too have been deeply grieved by the fact that priests and religious, whose vocation it is to help people live holy lives in the sight of God, have themselves caused such suffering and scandal to the young. Because of the great harm done by some priests and religious, the Church herself is viewed with distrust, and many are offended at the way in which the Church’s leaders are perceived to have acted in this matter. The abuse which has caused this crisis is by every standard wrong and rightly considered a crime by society; it is also an appalling sin in the eyes of God. To the victims and their families, wherever they may be, I express my profound sense of solidarity and concern.        

       2. It is true that a generalized lack of knowledge of the nature of the problem and also at times the advice of clinical experts led Bishops to make decisions which subsequent events showed to be wrong. You are now working to establish more reliable criteria to ensure that such mistakes are not repeated. At the same time, even while recognizing how indispensable these criteria are, we cannot forget the power of Christian conversion, that radical decision to turn away from sin and back to God, which reaches to the depths of a person’s soul and can work extraordinary change.

               Neither should we forget the immense spiritual, human and social good that the vast majority of priests and religious in the United States have done and are still doing. The Catholic Church in your country has always promoted human and Christian values with great vigor and generosity, in a way that has helped to consolidate all that is noble in the American people.        

       A great work of art may be blemished, but its beauty remains; and this is a truth which any intellectually honest critic will recognize. To the Catholic communities in the United States, to their Pastors and members, to the men and women religious, to teachers in Catholic universities and schools, to American missionaries in all parts of the world, go the wholehearted thanks of the entire Catholic Church and the personal thanks of the Bishop of Rome.

               3. The abuse of the young is a grave symptom of a crisis affecting not only the Church but society as a whole. It is a deep-seated crisis of sexual morality, even of human relationships, and its prime victims are the family and the young. In addressing the problem of abuse with clarity and determination, the Church will help society to understand and deal with the crisis in its midst.

               It must be absolutely clear to the Catholic faithful, and to the wider community, that Bishops and superiors are concerned, above all else, with the spiritual good of souls. People need to know that there is no place in the priesthood and religious life for those who would harm the young. They must know that Bishops and priests are totally committed to the fullness of Catholic truth on matters of sexual morality, a truth as essential to the renewal of the priesthood and the episcopate as it is to the renewal of marriage and family life.

               4. We must be confident that this time of trial will bring a purification of the entire Catholic community, a purification that is urgently needed if the Church is to preach more effectively the Gospel of Jesus Christ in all its liberating force. Now you must ensure that where sin increased, grace will all the more abound (cf. Rom 5:20). So much pain, so much sorrow must lead to a holier priesthood, a holier episcopate, and a holier Church.

               God alone is the source of holiness, and it is to him above all that we must turn for forgiveness, for healing and for the grace to meet this challenge with uncompromising courage and harmony of purpose. Like the Good Shepherd of last Sunday’s Gospel, Pastors must go among their priests and people as men who inspire deep trust and lead them to restful waters (cf. Ps 22:2).

               I beg the Lord to give the Bishops of the United States the strength to build their response to the present crisis upon the solid foundations of faith and upon genuine pastoral charity for the victims, as well as for the priests and the entire Catholic community in your country. And I ask Catholics to stay close to their priests and Bishops, and to support them with their prayers at this difficult time.        

       The peace of the Risen Christ be with you!


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cardinallaw; catholic; catholiccaucus; catholicchurch; johnpaulii; pope; uscardinals; vatican
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1 posted on 04/23/2002 7:18:12 AM PDT by history_matters
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To: Slyfox; Aunt Polgara; Codie; ELS; katnip;viadexter; pax_et_bonum; Romulus; GenXFreedomFighter...
p i n g
2 posted on 04/23/2002 7:18:49 AM PDT by history_matters
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: history_matters
Thanks for the ping. Good speech.
4 posted on 04/23/2002 7:31:07 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Judith Anne
I agree good statement, now the ball is in the Bishops' court.

The abuse which has caused this crisis is by every standard wrong and rightly considered a crime by society; it is also an appalling sin in the eyes of God. To the victims and their families, wherever they may be, I express my profound sense of solidarity and concern.

People need to know that there is no place in the priesthood and religious life for those who would harm the young.

We must refer all allegations to proper civil investigators for objective investigations.

6 posted on 04/23/2002 7:36:10 AM PDT by rbmillerjr
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To: Vesuvius
I will wait before I judge your words.

At this point, I agree that these are just words that the Pope has issued. In America, it's really easy to identify words written for political purposes. These are political words at this time.

Let's see if actions follow.

If SOMEONE isn't fired....some priest, some religious, then these are just words and nothing more.

If SOME BISHOP/CARDINAL is not removed from office or deprived of status, then these are just words. Remove Law's "cardinal" status and retain his bishopric. That will speak to me. Removing LAW completely will speak volumes to me.

7 posted on 04/23/2002 7:43:55 AM PDT by xzins
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To: Vesuvius
JPII you don't have a clue.

Yes, he does. He understands the big picture completely. Your continuing disrespect for the Holy Father is noted, WT Sherman4.

8 posted on 04/23/2002 7:49:12 AM PDT by history_matters
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To: xzins
Removing LAW completely will speak volumes to me.

I'm afraid there are many who think he'd make a good sacrifice play.

I'd rather see them go deeper ... instead of pulling in the FBI to supervise their Compliance Programs and Peer Group Collectives, they might try excising at the start the influence of the "clinical experts" who've normalized homosexuality at the gates of the seminary.

9 posted on 04/23/2002 8:08:01 AM PDT by Askel5
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To: history_matters
The abuse of the young is a grave symptom of a crisis affecting not only the Church but society as a whole.

Supreme Court Upholds "Virtual" Child Porn

10 posted on 04/23/2002 8:10:39 AM PDT by Askel5
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To: Vesuvius
JPII you don't have a clue.

At this point I agree with you
I will change my mind if heads roll but I am not expecting it

I am looking forward to see how Buckley, Buchanan, Bennet, etal handle this in their editorials

This ain't no different than the BS that occurred after WACO and Ruby Ridge. Nobody gets punished
11 posted on 04/23/2002 8:17:30 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: Vesuvius
He is simply mouthing the obvious platitudes that even a pathetic idiot can see. ... JPII you don't have a clue.

Even if you disagree with the actions the Pope has taken so far, why maintain such a disrespectful attitude towards him? The Holy Father is a much more intelligent man than you, and has done far more for the Church than you. Respectfully disagree with him, but don't make yourself look like more of a fool than you already have by your lack of civility.

12 posted on 04/23/2002 8:39:35 AM PDT by jrherreid
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To: jrherreid
your lack of civility

It's not merely a lack of civility, it's a gross lack of charity.

13 posted on 04/23/2002 8:47:32 AM PDT by Campion
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To: history_matters
Didn't see him mention homosexuals even once.
Are there any RC's out there who still do not think this is mainly a homosexual problem?
Could you imagine the harm it would do to the homosexiual movement if the holy father himself called it what it really is?
That is why he won't, and that is why I'm leaving the church.
Currupt and perverse, the evil one has his teeth firmly into the church.
14 posted on 04/23/2002 8:53:48 AM PDT by Psalm 73
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To: history_matters
The abuse of the young is a grave symptom of a crisis...

Exactly! The real sickness is deeper. He gets it all right.

15 posted on 04/23/2002 9:09:40 AM PDT by Romulus
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To: jrherreid
Respectfully disagree with him, but don't make yourself look like more of a fool than you already have by your lack of civility.

Can we unofficially adopt these intellectual rights as our standard on Free Republic? They work well whether disagreeing with the Holy Father or with other FReepers.

Shalom.

16 posted on 04/23/2002 9:13:30 AM PDT by ArGee
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To: Askel5
Compliance Programs and Peer Group Collectives,...

To "manage" the symptoms of the pathology with procedural solutions is to normalise it as a regrettable but necessary cost of doing business.

17 posted on 04/23/2002 9:16:58 AM PDT by Romulus
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To: Romulus
It's Corporate Governance, comrade, and it will be every bit as effective -- particularly if Outsourced -- as it's been in the "private sector".
18 posted on 04/23/2002 9:18:10 AM PDT by Askel5
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To: history_matters
"People need to know that there is no place in the priesthood and religious life for those who would harm the young. They must know that Bishops and priests are totally committed to the fullness of Catholic truth on matters of sexual morality, a truth as essential to the renewal of the priesthood and the episcopate as it is to the renewal of marriage and family life."
I love that part.
Thanks for posting it.
19 posted on 04/23/2002 9:29:02 AM PDT by heyheyhey
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To: Vesuvius
...these Cardinals are so corrupt...

You know it isn't true.
With this bigoted attitude nothing will EVER give you peace.
If you cannot trust anyone in this world, then trust the Holy Spirit and His guiding Wisdom for the Church.

20 posted on 04/23/2002 9:42:33 AM PDT by heyheyhey
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To: history_matters
It must be absolutely clear to the Catholic faithful, and to the wider community, that Bishops and superiors are concerned, above all else, with the spiritual good of souls.

They haven't. That's the top and bottom of it. Not only have they mishandled sexual abuse, but also doctrinal and liturgical abuse, which has affected proportionately more souls than the sexual scandal.

They've shrugegd their shoulders while a generation has been taught that the Mass is a meal, articial contraception is fine, penance is no longer necessary and Jesus didn't know he was God, to name just a few of the modernist heresies.

In all of this, it has been human respect that has been the overriding consideration and not fear of the Lord who called them, and whose Mystical Body the Church is. The mission of the Church is very simply, to signpost the road to salvation. A road which Jesus himself said is narrow.

The shepherds have let wolves into the fold and the sheep have been ravaged.

21 posted on 04/23/2002 9:58:24 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: Psalm 73
I am so sad to hear that you are planning on leaving the Church. I understand the impulse to run from this evil mess, but I beg you to pray the Rosary just once before making a final decision. The Church is so much more than this scandal, and the fat woman hasn't sung yet. God bless you.
22 posted on 04/23/2002 10:00:46 AM PDT by history_matters
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To: Vesuvius
No current freeper by that name.

No, but is stench is here.

23 posted on 04/23/2002 10:02:42 AM PDT by Petronski
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To: Petronski
Well, I didn't pull the trigger on him, but I'm glad somebody did. Pure, undisguised bigotry.
24 posted on 04/23/2002 10:18:54 AM PDT by Cicero
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To: history_matters
Let us pray that all the American bishops will take these words of the Pope to heart.
Ronald Reagan listened to Our Holy Father and the Berlin Wall fell as a result.
25 posted on 04/23/2002 10:40:06 AM PDT by Slyfox
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To: Askel5
I'm afraid there are many who think (Cardinal Law) would make a good sacrifice play.

Has it occured to anyone yet to look into the actions of the organizations like Dignity and such that have tried really hard to change the morality in the Church in a detrimental way? I can name a few bishops right now who have bent over backwards (yes!) to accomadate the every whim of the perverts in our midst. Where is Father Nuegent and his trusty, lusty nun sidekick?

26 posted on 04/23/2002 10:46:12 AM PDT by Slyfox
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To: history_matters
If Jesus Christ were sitting where the pope is the Cardinals, Bishops, Abbots and priests that were guilty of these sex crimes against children would be quaking in their slimy boots, no doubt. Jesus would be in a rage that would destroy all of these alleged men of God. Men of God who used God's holy name to rape and seduce the young. Men of God who then covered up the sex crimes and passed the perpetrators on to other parishes to continue molesting and raping kids.

I'm sure that Jesus would unleash lightening fire bolts that would turn these Godless Hypocrites to ashes instantly.

If John Paul II was the Man of God that many on this News Group say, than where is his total outrage at/toward all who are involved.

A Spiritual type of Ethnic Cleansing in the Catholic Church seems to be inorder here!?

27 posted on 04/23/2002 10:59:39 AM PDT by zbogwan2
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To: Vesuvius
I think he may whack on some of the Cardinals in private.

Remember, two weeks ago the statement from the "Vatican" was, "The Americans will deal with this themselves. The HF will not get involved."

But JP II summoned them.

I say give it a few more days.

The statement is benign, but it is also designed for public consumption.

In this day and age, everything has to be mealy-mouthed and PC, or the whole world condemns you, regardless of the message.

JP II is just reacting to a media-run world.

My hunch is that he will fire a few or more Bishops.

28 posted on 04/23/2002 11:03:37 AM PDT by caddie
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To: Slyfox
Oh ... it's so sad.

I've been transcribing tapes of and on of a group called "Faithful Catholics of NE Florida". They have some amazing folks come in ... all of whom tell the same story.

Regardless the paltry research effort needed to scratch the candy-coating surface to reveal the most revolutionary of intent, Dioceseses not only CONSISTENTLY let the wolf in the henhouse and appoint radicals to head up the Education office, the "Peace and Justice" office, the CHD pursestrings and committees on liturgy, they almost uniformly DENY the traditional the opportunity to speak and are careful to distance themselves from whatever actions are taken by publicly announcing they've no blessing from the Bishop.

It's the same tack only worse as used by the GOP who'll bend over backwards to listen to, curry the favor of and appoint those with agendas diametrically opposed to the so-called "personal convictions" for which we elected these bozos in the first place.

Just another reason -- besides the fact that the Church is not a democracy -- that I cringe when folks suggest that elections would be the answer.

29 posted on 04/23/2002 11:05:17 AM PDT by Askel5
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To: Psalm 73
Didn't see him mention homosexuals even once.

You need to learn to read Vaticaneese. It's right there in front of you.

They must know that Bishops and priests are totally committed to the fullness of Catholic truth on matters of sexual morality, a truth as essential to the renewal of the priesthood and the episcopate as it is to the renewal of marriage and family life.

"Totally committed to the fullness of Catholic truth on matters of sexual morality" doesn't say anything about homosexuality to you? The Pope identifies a priesthood committed to this as the key to renewal.

SD

30 posted on 04/23/2002 11:17:22 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Askel5
Dioceseses not only CONSISTENTLY let the wolf in the henhouse and appoint radicals to head up the Education office, the "Peace and Justice" office, the CHD pursestrings and committees on liturgy, they almost uniformly DENY the traditional the opportunity to speak and are careful to distance themselves from whatever actions are taken by publicly announcing they've no blessing from the Bishop.

A number of bishops have let their chancery offices be run by the liberals. They let Sister Femi-Nazi run the show. She makes decisions about priest placement, about liturgies, about sex ed, about the structure of new churches insuring that Our Lord gets a closet all His own miles away from the altar front and center. These bishops need to reclaim their manhood. Pronto.

31 posted on 04/23/2002 11:21:34 AM PDT by Slyfox
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To: Slyfox
We were talking in Catechism last night about how it could possibly be true (and it is true) that one of the men primarily responsible for English translations of the Norvus Ordo is a defrocked priest.

I don't know what poisoned them so. When you think about the way Maritain, even, took a shine to the likes of Saul Alinsky once upon a time (favorably reviewing his "Reveille for Radicals") it's possible to give a few the benefit of the doubt.

With all the strange fruit that's been festering for a generation now, I see no reason still to cut them ANY slack.

One thing I'd love to see the most is the axing at the root of the annual shake-down they call the Campaign for Human Development.

There's a gentleman who (for other reasons entirely) is interested in having me interview Archbishop Hannan at length. With any luck, I'll get the opportunity to find out what was his thinking behind the funding scheme he set up and why it was he and others felt the "United Way" model was appropriate for AmChurch.

32 posted on 04/23/2002 11:32:05 AM PDT by Askel5
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To: SoothingDave
"Totally committed to the fullness of Catholic truth on matters of sexual morality" doesn't say anything about homosexuality to you? The Pope identifies a priesthood committed to this as the key to renewal.

Excellent point. I understood it to mean the same thing.

God bless.

33 posted on 04/23/2002 11:43:19 AM PDT by Gophack
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To: Askel5
We were talking in Catechism last night about how it could possibly be true (and it is true) that one of the men primarily responsible for English translations of the Norvus Ordo is a defrocked priest.

The other men responsible for the Norvus Ordo were Protestant ministers. If you are familiar with Anne Catherine Emmerich, she was given to believe that even though "they" would try to destroy the Mass, they would be unable to destroy the essense of the Mass, essentially, the Eucharist. So, it is still valid, though it is not as beautiful and inspiring. One of the things JPII tried to do when he first became Pope was to return the old Latin Mass to us, which he did.

34 posted on 04/23/2002 11:47:00 AM PDT by Slyfox
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To: Petronski
He will be back. Some people can't take a hint.
35 posted on 04/23/2002 11:55:39 AM PDT by patent
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To: SoothingDave
"Totally committed to the fullness of Catholic truth on matters of sexual morality" doesn't say anything about homosexuality to you?

Then why does he not come right out and say it?
What is he afraid of? The powerfull Bishops and Cardinals who may be homosexual?
Boy, are we ever in trouble.
I don't want to be around the Catholic Church when God pours out His wrath upon it!!

36 posted on 04/23/2002 11:56:42 AM PDT by Psalm 73
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To: Psalm 73
"Totally committed to the fullness of Catholic truth on matters of sexual morality" doesn't say anything about homosexuality to you?

Then why does he not come right out and say it?

He did come right out and say it. Why can't you hear it?

By requiring the upholding of the "fullness of Catholic tuth on matters of sexual morality" he comes right out against not only homosexuality, but all manners of perversion. It is a stonger statement than the one you wish he had made.

SD

37 posted on 04/23/2002 12:04:51 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Psalm 73;history matters;all
Everyone! Attention! This is NOT a Catholic but one of the fundamentalists who likes to masquerade as a Catholic to give the impression that Catholics are leaving. MAJOR DISRUPTOR ALERT!
38 posted on 04/23/2002 12:10:02 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: SoothingDave
See post #38.
39 posted on 04/23/2002 12:10:52 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Psalm 73
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor

Or did your version of the Bible edit that one out too?

40 posted on 04/23/2002 12:13:49 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Askel5
One thing I'd love to see the most is the axing at the root of the annual shake-down they call the Campaign for Human Development.

A most important point, Askel5. AGREED.

There's a gentleman who (for other reasons entirely) is interested in having me interview Archbishop Hannan at length. With any luck, I'll get the opportunity to find out what was his thinking behind the funding scheme he set up and why it was he and others felt the "United Way" model was appropriate for AmChurch.

I wondered why Archbishop Hannan was never made a Cardinal ....

41 posted on 04/23/2002 12:16:27 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: Askel5
re: # 10 child porn/abuse

A valid point.

42 posted on 04/23/2002 12:20:56 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: goldenstategirl
This is NOT a Catholic but one of the fundamentalists who likes to masquerade as a Catholic to give the impression that Catholics are leaving

Thanks. The last comment made about not wanting to be around when "the wrath of God" is poured out upon the Catholic Church is a dead giveaway anyway.

SD

43 posted on 04/23/2002 12:22:50 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Campion
Whatever it is, it certainly is gross.
44 posted on 04/23/2002 12:25:04 PM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: Slyfox
"The other men responsible for the Norvus Ordo were Protestant ministers."

I think you unintentionally committed a gaffe here. There were Protestant ministers invited to observe Vatican Two. But, despite claims made by those wandering the fever swamps of schism, they were not responsible for the normative Mass. The normative Mass or the Mass of Paul VI is as Catholic as any Mass celebrated by priests prior to Vatican Two.

If Protestants really were responsible for our normative Mass, why don't any Protestant Churches celebrate the mass of Paul VI?

I think Catholics forget, or may have never even heard, that Protestants were invited to observe the Council of Trent. Not only that, they were invited to debate any topic, Doctrine etc they chose to debate. Just because a Protestant is invited to observe an Infallible Ecumenical Council doesn't mean it's results are suspect.

45 posted on 04/23/2002 12:39:14 PM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: Slyfox
If you are familiar with Anne Catherine Emmerich, she was given to believe that even though "they" would try to destroy the Mass, they would be unable to destroy the essense of the Mass, essentially, the Eucharist. So, it is still valid, though it is not as beautiful and inspiring

One of the guys handling our Catechism is a Latin teacher here in town. He took a '74 Sacramentary and -- from the small appendix entry at the very back of the book -- did a quickie translation of the Gloria, a portion of the Consecration.

No question but what the BEAUTY and REVERENCE and MAJESTY are gone. But he did point out several instances in these couple of paragraphs where indeed the Theology appears to have been changed as well:

Glory to God in the highest
and peace to his people on earth
Glory to God on high
and peace on earth to men of good will
He made mention of "good will to men" being some inheritance of a infamously poor KJV translation but I was struck by the implications of these two very different groups of men.
we worship you, we give you thanks
we praise you for your glory
We praise you, we bless you,
we adore you, we glorify you
we give you thanks on account of your great glory
The most glaring example he gave of the stripping away of the beauty and compressing flat the imagery and reverence and holiness. Speaking of "holy", by the way, he mentioned that "holy" had practically been purged from the translations whereas it appears throughout the old prayers.
Lord Jesus Christ, only Son of the Father
Lord God, Lamb of God
you take away the sin of the world;
have mercy on us;
you are seated at the right hand of the Father:
receive our prayer
Lord God, Heavenly King
God the almighty Father
Lord only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ
Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father
who take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us;
who take away the sins of the world, accept our plea.
Who sit at the right hand of the Father, have mercy on us.
The less patriarchal language the better.
The three petitions have been reduced to two. Granted, have mercy is the same but it's the ending with another "have mercy" which underscores our rightful relationship with God as subservient. Perhaps a minor point but given the God Within these days (particularly the imperious goddesses), I think it's a valid one.
When supper was ended he took the cup. In the same way, after supper,
taking this most-famous chalice
"This" underscoring absolutely the eternal present nature of the sacrifice in the Mass. And, beyond the nature of the Holy Grail, it seems hard to believe that a faithful Jew would use any old cup for the Passover meal when only a ritualized chalice would do.
Take this, all of you, and drink from it:
This is the cup of my blood,
the blood of the new and everlasting covenant
it will be shed for you and for all men
so that sins may be forgiven.
Do this in memory of me.
Take and drink from this, all of you:
for this is the chalice of my Blood
of the new and eternal covenant,
which will be poured out for you and for many
in remission of sins
Do this in my memory.
This, I found fascinating. No wonder the nuns who taught me in college didn't believe in Hell anymore. (I could go off at this point but I'll resist the urge.)
Remember, Lord, those who have died
and have gone before us marked with the sign of faith
Especially those for whom we now pray, N. and N.
Remember also, Lord, your servants
and handmaids, N. and N.
who precede us with the sign of faith,
and sleep in the sleep of peace.
Again, the proper distinction of place upon petitioning God and also -- the sleep of peace -- the loss of beauty.

46 posted on 04/23/2002 12:50:16 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Askel5
He made mention of "good will to men" being some inheritance of a infamously poor KJV translation but I was struck by the implications of these two very different groups of men.

"Men of good will" implies that we have something to do with it, thus nullifying a Calvinist approach.

The most glaring example he gave of the stripping away of the beauty and compressing flat the imagery and reverence and holiness. Speaking of "holy", by the way, he mentioned that "holy" had practically been purged from the translations whereas it appears throughout the old prayers.

Holy? Try finding the word "grace." Are you familiar with the Wanderer column "What does the prayer really say?"?

SD

47 posted on 04/23/2002 12:58:55 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
I'm not sure I've made note of the column ... though I'm guessing I must have read it at some point over the years (The Wanderer being a staple of my grandparents' pile of newspapers as well as offered at my parish.)

I will be sure to look for it.

Clearly, language is essential to the revolution ... just as are sex and particularly the same-sex relationship which is a direct rejection of Order and succumbing to the essentially dis-ordered.

As a Vatican II sort, I'm still blown away by how badly I was gypped.

48 posted on 04/23/2002 1:05:00 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Catholicguy
Protestant ministers were asked for their opinion and someone saw fit to include some of their ideas.
49 posted on 04/23/2002 1:16:46 PM PDT by Slyfox
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To: Askel5
I'm not sure I've made note of the column ... though I'm guessing I must have read it at some point over the years (The Wanderer being a staple of my grandparents' pile of newspapers as well as offered at my parish.) I will be sure to look for it.

The column is only a little over a year old. You can find it here

The priest/author goes through a prayer from the Sunday Mass (last year was the opening prayer, or collect; this year is the prayer over the gifts, or super oblata) and shows the Latin from the Misssal, gives a reasonable translation of his own, explaining why he chooses the words he does, then shows the pitiful ICEL translation. It is quite interesting.

As a Vatican II sort, I'm still blown away by how badly I was gypped.

Me, too. But the winds are changing. For Lent this year, my parish started chanting the Sanctus and Agnus Dei in Latin. This was the first use of them I had heard in 30 some years of my life.

SD

50 posted on 04/23/2002 1:17:14 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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