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Cardinal's words on gay priests surprise scholars
The Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | Fri, May. 03, 2002 | JIM REMSEN

Posted on 05/03/2002 6:38:30 PM PDT by history_matters

Cardinal Anthony M. Bevilacqua's sweeping rejection of gay men becoming priests diverges from mainstream thinking by U.S. Catholic theologians and policymakers, a range of church scholars said in interviews this week.

But his remarks echoed a little-known Vatican decree issued four decades ago that may come into play as church leaders labor toward a national response to the sex-abuse scandal in the church.

Upon his return last week from the cardinals' summit conference in Rome, Cardinal Bevilacqua weighed in on the debate about gays in the priesthood - a hot issue in the scandal - with a categorical pronouncement.

No "homosexually oriented" men, not even chaste ones, are "suitable candidates" for the priesthood, he told a news conference, because heterosexual celibates "are giving up" the good of family and children, while gay celibates give up what the church considers "a moral evil."

With his remarks, and the hard line taken against homosexuals at the archdiocese's St. Charles Borromeo Seminary in Wynnewood, Cardinal Bevilacqua has put himself in the front rank of church conservatives who staunchly oppose the ordination of gays.

The cardinal's views reflect an antipathy toward homosexuality that is found in the Catholic catechism, but his statements about banning even celibate gay priests surprised most of the 14 Catholic theologians and other experts contacted for comment. Two of the 14 voiced support.

Most said the dominant view among theologians, bishops, seminary officials and other policymakers is that the decisive factor should not be a candidate's sexual orientation but whether he is "acting out" sexually.

"He's the first one I've heard make this particular argument" distinguishing between gay and straight celibacies, said the Rev. John Baldovin, professor of historical and liturgical theology at Weston Jesuit School of Theology in Cambridge, Mass.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered" and "contrary to the natural law," while urging tolerance toward gays and saying they are "called to chastity."

But to say homosexual orientation alone disqualifies a person for diocesan priesthood takes church teaching into an area where doctrine is unsettled, several of the theologians said.

Church leaders "weren't willing to admit for the longest time that they had gay people in the priesthood," said Father Baldovin, so "nobody was trying to construct the difference between straight celibacy and gay celibacy."

Cardinal Bevilacqua is a canon lawyer, not a degreed theologian, but he has the last word on this matter in the archdiocese, as any reigning bishop has over a diocese. Unless rules bearing papal authority are imposed - which has not occurred regarding gays in diocesan seminaries - a bishop can interpret scripture and doctrine as he sees fit.

Cardinal Bevilacqua will have no further comment on his statements, archdiocese spokeswoman Catherine Rossi said.

The Rev. Joseph A. Komonchak, a theologian at the Catholic University of America in Washington and a consultant to the U.S. Catholic Bishops Conference's committee on doctrine, was among the theologians who questioned the cardinal's views.

A gay person "can't give up his orientation," Father Komonchak said. "... That particular application of theology I've never heard before. If it's anywhere in church teaching, I've never seen it."

A Catholic University colleague, theology professor John Grabowski, said he had seen the cardinal's position "argued by a few others, but I must say it's not a common position... . It's an isolated view."

Grabowski said the argument "doesn't work. The church does teach that homosexuality is an objective disorder, but every person has disordered inclinations. That's the human condition. I don't know how you can bar a person from ordination because of that."

The opposite view was voiced by the Rev. Ray Ryland, who teaches theology at Franciscan University in Steubenville, Ohio.

"I have not come across this distinction [on gay celibacy] that the cardinal makes, but I think he's quite right in saying it," Father Ryland said. "As a prudential judgment, I agree that persons of that orientation should not be admitted to the priesthood because of the very grave temptations they face" in seminary and parish life.

The Vatican has taken a similar stance. In 1961, Pope John XXIII issued a decree concerning people entering convents, monasteries and other religious orders. The directive, which remains valid, instructs that "those affected by the perverse inclination to homosexuality or pederasty [man-boy love] should be excluded from religious vows and ordination."

Scholars said the decree, developed by the Sacred Congregation for Religious, does not apply to diocesan seminarians. According to Catholic News Service, Vatican officials are considering updating and reissuing the document as part of their internal discussion about whether to impose standards for selection and training of priests.

The matter of gays in the priesthood has emerged as a thorny aspect of the abuse scandal. Some Catholic conservatives, noting that many of the reported molestations have involved priests and older boys, have renewed their complaints about the relatively high number of gay priests.

Gay priests and rights activists have said the cardinal and other conservatives are scapegoating gay priests. Homosexuals, they argue, are no more likely to be pedophiles than anyone else, and no more likely to break their promise of priestly celibacy than heterosexuals.

In his news conference last Friday, Cardinal Bevilacqua said without elaborating that he believed gay priests were at a "much higher" risk of becoming sexually active. "When a heterosexual celibate chooses to become a celibate in the priesthood," the cardinal said, "he's taking on a good - that is, his own desire to become a priest - and he's giving up a very good thing, and that is, a family and children that could follow. That would not be true of a homosexually oriented candidate. He may be choosing the good, but... he's giving up what the church considers an aberration, a moral evil."

The Rev. Donald Cozzens, a onetime Cleveland seminary rector and the author of The Changing Face of the Priesthood: A Reflection on the Priest's Crisis of Soul, said the cardinal's priesthood theology harked back to the tradition of asceticism. But the church, he said, primarily teaches that a person chooses priestly celibacy "because it feels like the path God has ordained for me for spiritual maturity, not as an ascetical practice like giving something up for Lent... . His framing of the issue is creative. It is fairly new to my ears."

The Rev. Richard McBrien, a theology professor at the University of Notre Dame and a former president of the Catholic Theological Society of America, said Cardinal Bevilacqua's outlook seemed to be based on "a fundamentalistic interpretation of Scripture" that "no one with any serious scholarly credentials in the field of biblical studies" shared.

The cardinal's point of view is "rather fundamentalist," said the Rev. Don Clifford of St. Joseph's University, a longtime professor of dogmatic theology.

Further, the 72-year-old priest said, "many people who had the most positive influence on me, on reflection, were very likely gay... . They presumably were living chaste lives and had tremendous influence on their ministries."

The debate about gays is part of a "long-term discussion" within the church, Father Clifford said, and "I always bet on the Holy Spirit to see how it comes out."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: cardinalbevilacqua; catholicchurch; catholiclist; celibacy; homosexuality; priesthood
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I read this on Cardinal Bevilacqua and thought you all should see the gay-sharks circling him and painting him as some misbegotten loon. The truth is that Cardinal Bevilacqua is the only Cardinal in America who understands this issue of homosexuality and its incompatibility with the priesthood. The Cardinal is also the only one who seems to understand what is at stake. Aside from Father Ray Ryland, the others quoted in this story especially McBrien can barely be considered Catholic because their teaching is contrary to the Magisterium, the Catechism, and the direction of the Pope.
1 posted on 05/03/2002 6:38:30 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: *Catholic_list
Cardinal Bevilacqua assailed by pro-homosexualist theologians.
2 posted on 05/03/2002 6:39:15 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
Gay priests and rights activists have said the cardinal and other conservatives are scapegoating gay priests. Homosexuals, they argue, are no more likely to be pedophiles than anyone else, and no more likely to break their promise of priestly celibacy than heterosexuals.

Easy enough to verify isn't it? Just count up the number of pedophiles among the clergy who went after boys and compare it to the number who went after girls. When is some newspaper going to print that very basic and obvious statistic?

3 posted on 05/03/2002 6:48:54 PM PDT by PMCarey
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To: history_matters
I wonder about the percentage of gay priests in the United States right now---and what percentage of those priests are truly chaste.
4 posted on 05/03/2002 6:49:20 PM PDT by 07055
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To: ThomasMore; Campion; Clemenza; OxfordMovement; nickcarraway; jrherreid; Coleus; Palladin...
For the sake of Cardinal Bevilacqua ping...
5 posted on 05/03/2002 6:56:34 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: PMCarey
Just think about the insanity of ordaining SODOMITES to the priesthood. 'nuff said.
6 posted on 05/03/2002 6:57:57 PM PDT by Thundergod
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To: history_matters
Cardinal Bevilacqua and h_m *bump*!

Thanks for a great article, it is good to see you back on the job (I can't find anything without you here pinging everybody!) and it is good to know who "the good guys" are.

7 posted on 05/03/2002 6:59:34 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: history_matters
Cardinal Anthony M. Bevilacqua's sweeping rejection of gay men becoming priests diverges from mainstream thinking by U.S. Catholic theologians and policymakers, a range of church scholars said in interviews this week.

------------------

It's unfortunate his views represent a divergence form the mainstream. If he were made pope there might be a chance for return of sanity in the Catholic Church.

8 posted on 05/03/2002 7:00:20 PM PDT by RLK
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To: american colleen
God bless you, lass. I'm deeply grateful to you.
9 posted on 05/03/2002 7:02:50 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
It's about time someone brings this into the "light". Haleluia!

I am political activists who has fought hard against the radical homosexual agenda and I have been saying for some time that the church's pedophilia problem is only the tip of the iceberg. I was priviledged to read personal e-mail between two gay priests in a "gay priest chat room called Sabastian's Angels" (it has since been closed down) the priests themselves estimated that 50% of priests were gay. Then another priest in the chat room bragged that the number is "closer to 75% if you go to the vatican". Those are not my words, but from an actual conversation in that chat room.

Character does count. You can't be profane on Saturday Night and Holy on Sunday (unless of course, your name is Klinton).

10 posted on 05/03/2002 7:04:39 PM PDT by arepublicifyoucankeepit
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To: patent
"When a heterosexual celibate chooses to become a celibate in the priesthood," the cardinal said, "he's taking on a good - that is, his own desire to become a priest - and he's giving up a very good thing, and that is, a family and children that could follow. That would not be true of a homosexually oriented candidate. He may be choosing the good, but... he's giving up what the church considers an aberration, a moral evil."

This is a very rational explanation - which I had not considered until today. I am almost compelled to agree.

11 posted on 05/03/2002 7:05:23 PM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: history_matters
Hey! This post is still in news/activism... hmmm
12 posted on 05/03/2002 7:05:31 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: afraidfortherepublic; Diva; Stingray51; Romulus; patent
Supporting Cardinal Bevilacqua ping....
13 posted on 05/03/2002 7:06:41 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
Rev. Ray Ryland, who teaches theology at Franciscan University in Steubenville, Ohio. "I have not come across this distinction [on gay celibacy] that the cardinal makes, but I think he's quite right in saying it," Father Ryland said. "As a prudential judgment, I agree that persons of that orientation should not be admitted to the priesthood because of the very grave temptations they face" in seminary and parish life. He gets it. The assumption that there is no difference between a "gay" celibate and a "stright" celibate has just been shown to us all too clearly. The problem is that many of the people beating up on the Church refuse to see the link, just as they won't see that AIDs is mainly a homosexual disease in any country with quality medical care.
14 posted on 05/03/2002 7:06:54 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS
I agree that persons of that orientation should not be admitted to the priesthood because ...

Because it's not an orientation. IT'S A DISORIENTATION!
15 posted on 05/03/2002 7:10:05 PM PDT by Thundergod
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To: history_matters
Fr. Ryland is a friend of mine. I worked with him for a couple of years when he was in San Diego. He said my mother's funeral Mass.

He a very bright man . . . and has a backbone of steel.

BTW, he's a convert. He was an Episocpalian minister and became a Catholic priest when he converted. He's married and was the first to enter the seminary in the US (although the second to be ordained) when the Vatican OK'd married converts becoming priests. He's a solid advocate of celibacy and has a very good tape of a talk he gave about it. You can search the Web to find it.

He told me a story about a time when he attended the installation of an Episcopal bishop. One of his sons was with him and was constantly asking "What are they doing now?" A patient man, Fr. Ray would lean over and tell the boy what was going on. At one point the new bishop was surrounded by the other bishops. The boy asked his usual question, "What are they doing now?" Fr. Ray thought for a second and then told the boy, "They're removing his backbone!"

You now know why he never made bishop.

16 posted on 05/03/2002 7:10:30 PM PDT by choirboy
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To: Notwithstanding
"When a heterosexual celibate chooses to become a celibate in the priesthood," the cardinal said, "he's taking on a good - that is, his own desire to become a priest - and he's giving up a very good thing, and that is, a family and children that could follow. That would not be true of a homosexually oriented candidate. He may be choosing the good, but... he's giving up what the church considers an aberration, a moral evil."

Self-evidently true. Only those who think that marriage and children as evils would disagree.

17 posted on 05/03/2002 7:10:43 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: history_matters
Perhaps the church hierarchy should take a lesson from the Boy Scouts of America.

Wes Pruden, Editor in Chief of the Washington Times had a great column on this today. Unfortunately, it's not yet posted on their web site.

18 posted on 05/03/2002 7:10:52 PM PDT by jackbill
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To: choirboy
he's a convert. He was an Episocpalian minister I think we should raid the Episcopal and Lutheran Chuches for men like Ryland and R.J. Neuhaus. Set up a fund and pay them a bonus to jump to our "club" I meant that as a joke, but on second thought, a darn good idea.! (patting self on back).
19 posted on 05/03/2002 7:15:14 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: history_matters
Upon his return last week from the cardinals' summit conference in Rome, Cardinal Bevilacqua weighed in on the debate about gays in the priesthood - ,,, No "homosexually oriented" men, not even chaste ones, are "suitable candidates" for the priesthood, he told a news conference, because heterosexual celibates "are giving up" the good of family and children, while gay celibates give up what the church considers "a moral evil."

Seems Cardinal Bevilacqua speaks from first hand experience. Perhaps they should start at the top and work their way down. Candidate #1 to step down should be:

ROGER CARDINAL MAHONY

20 posted on 05/03/2002 7:15:26 PM PDT by NYer
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To: history_matters
Cardinal Anthony M. Bevilacqua's sweeping rejection of gay men becoming priests diverges from mainstream thinking by U.S. Catholic theologians and policymakers, a range of church scholars said in interviews this week.
The cardinal's views reflect an antipathy toward homosexuality that is found in the Catholic catechism, but his statements about banning even celibate gay priests surprised most of the 14 Catholic theologians and other experts contacted for comment. Two of the 14 voiced support.

...diverges from mainstream thinking by U.S. Catholic theologians and policymakers.

The Roman Catholic Church is self-destructing faster than I would ever have imagined.

If the past year was not enough to order a wake-up call for Church leadership, then the Church is doomed.

21 posted on 05/03/2002 7:20:14 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: RobbyS
I think we should raid the Episcopal and Lutheran Chuches for men like Ryland and R.J. Neuhaus. Set up a fund and pay them a bonus to jump to our "club" I meant that as a joke, but on second thought, a darn good idea.! (patting self on back).

Hey! I'm with you on that one. (patting you on back!)

22 posted on 05/03/2002 7:20:39 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: Notwithstanding
"When a heterosexual celibate chooses to become a celibate in the priesthood," the cardinal said, "he's taking on a good - that is, his own desire to become a priest - and he's giving up a very good thing, and that is, a family and children that could follow. That would not be true of a homosexually oriented candidate. He may be choosing the good, but... he's giving up what the church considers an aberration, a moral evil."

On the contrary, I thought giving up an evil for a good...was a good thing.Just read that statement again:

He may be choosing the good, but...he's giving up what the church considers an aberration, a moral evil.

Strange that a Catholic cardinal would condemn someone who gives up something bad for something good. So what is the celibate homosexual to do? Go out and kill himself?

Bevilacqua's strange theology is contradicted by Cardinal Francis George of Chicago, who said "how will we know who is homosexual and who is not, if they are celibate?"

Fr. Donald Cozzens is close to the truth when he says there are 30-50% of priests who are homosexual. Only, you won't know, because they are celibates.

Bevilacqua's position may be adopted in his diocese, but it won't be part of the statement coming out of Dallas in June.

23 posted on 05/03/2002 7:21:55 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: RobbyS
The problem is that many of the people beating up on the Church refuse to see the link, just as they won't see that AIDs is mainly a homosexual disease in any country with quality medical care.

Barbra! Streisand types. (whatever that means...)

Seriously, this country is all messed up. Everyone is afraid to be called some kind of "phobe" and the Catholic Church went politically correct in the 1970s. They forgot their mission and now they are cowed by the thought of drag queens picketing churches and throwing condoms at newly ordained priests and their "reputation"... well, looks like they reaped what they sowed.

You know, I remember when the homosexuals threw condoms at the newly ordained priests at the Holy Cross Cathedral in Boston a few years ago - Cardinal Law's Cathedral. It was sickening, gross and HARDLY REPORTED! But, eventually it would be reported and people would start to understand the agenda at work.

24 posted on 05/03/2002 7:23:22 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: history_matters
It's payback time. The perverts in the major media have tried to blow up and distort this scandal in order to weaken the Church and get it out of the way of their sexual agendas. But in the long run the effect of this scandal is likely to be the opposite of what they hoped and planned. Instead of women priests, married priests, and anything goes on the sexual front, the Church will tighten up and enforce its traditional morality, which the liberal dissenters have been putting into question for the past thirty years.
25 posted on 05/03/2002 7:24:03 PM PDT by Cicero
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: RobbyS
The assumption that there is no difference between a "gay" celibate and a "stright" celibate has just been shown to us all too clearly.

What's IS the difference, Robby, if they are both celibate? How do you know who is gay and who is straight in the priesthood, if they are both celibate? One likes striking floral arrangements and the other doesn't?

27 posted on 05/03/2002 7:26:04 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: american colleen
In another place having to do with talking aboiut welching--sorry if I offen your ancestors--on the Geoghsn settlement, I faciosuly suggested that Law should sell the cathedral to some real estate developer, apply some of the money to thesettlement, and use the rest to buy a very large tent to take on the road. More of course for organ and choir robes.
28 posted on 05/03/2002 7:28:56 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: Lancey Howard
Just an observation, but it appears on the surface of things that a chaste homosexual is an oxymoron.
29 posted on 05/03/2002 7:31:52 PM PDT by WVNan
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To: PMCarey
I think all lay Catholics should demand those statistics as well as the degree of offense committed.

I personally know a priest who went to jail for offenses alleged by some teen age girls,went to jail for ten years,who is now being considered for more severe action in Rome.

In the "olden days", the original charges,if we lay prople would have confessed them, would have gotten all of us a couple af decades of the rosary for petting with clothes in tact.Because of some draconion action taken by our legislators over another matter,he faced a possible life sentence. He was young and was convinced by the prosecuting attornies to plea bargain. He did,we would have received a penance of 2 Hail Mary's for "copping a feel".

Meanwhile we have had pederasts and active homosexual priests (that means they put their penises in someones rectum),sashaying around. Several of the pederasts did get jail sentences but the majority of active homosexual priests just stand up Sunday after Sunday telling us that we must be hospitable and non-judgemental,blah,blah.

By the way does anyone know how Cardinal Mahoney is doing?

30 posted on 05/03/2002 7:32:38 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: history_matters
Excellent article.

At one point I believed it to be the natural choice for a gay man who was serious about his Catholicism to become a priest - he could both serve the Church, and not commit acts that go against the Bible's teachings.

For obvious reasons, I no longer feel that way (Disclaimer - I'm not Catholic).

31 posted on 05/03/2002 7:34:19 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: sinkspur
How do you know who is gay and who is straight in the priesthood, if they are both celibate? Well, one thing is sure, your won't find t out by giving them psychological tests or running them by a shrink. With their presuppositions, the shrinks are more likely to weed out the straight guys. The big thing is the "IF" Maybe we tempt them with pretty women and the guys who behave normally we keep? :-).
32 posted on 05/03/2002 7:36:53 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: history_matters
I read this on Cardinal Bevilacqua and thought you all should see the gay-sharks circling him and painting him as some misbegotten loon

Cheers, from a resident Loon fresh from the shelling on on the War Weary Prostitutes thread.

I thank God I've been so blessed as to be surrounded by family, friends, associates, teachers and religious who belied "disordered desires" as the quintessential human condition!

33 posted on 05/03/2002 7:37:53 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Senator Pardek
(Disclaimer - I'm not Catholic).

Tell it to the Holy Spirit who left his seal on you.

34 posted on 05/03/2002 7:38:48 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Notwithstanding
Here's what the Catholic Catechism has to say about homosexuals:

2359Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Can someone here tell me how that differs from the calling that STRAIGHT people are asked to embrace?

I'm not defending active homosexuals. But, I know many priests, and I suspect some of them are homosexual. But, I will never know for sure because they are celibate, and love the Lord with all their hearts.

I will lay considerable coin on the table that Bevilacqua will never repeat his bizarre comparison between "good" heterosexuals and "evil" homosexuals. Orientation, in and of itself, is not determinative of anything.

35 posted on 05/03/2002 7:43:38 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: arepublicifyoucankeepit
re: Character does count.

Sure does. Although, to take a birds eye view... what's equally (actually more) important is what type of character. And what is morally right and wrong? Is there truth and what is it?

We've got to come back to the word of God (the entire Bible) and it clearly states in both the old and new Testament that God hates the act of homosexuality. He loves all people... but hates sin. And it's our sin that gets in the way.... everyone of us (Rom 3).

Sounds like the problem has been that folks aren't using God's word to determine what the church's view should be. If they would, there wouldn't even be a discussion (about such a black and white matter).

Do people think that just because Jesus didn't teach on it that it makes that behaviour ok? Or do they think that the Holy Spirit who spoke through Paul was not the one and the same God who revealed himself through Jesus?

The problem with the religious liberals is that they want to pick and choose what parts of the religion they like. It's still that same rebellious nature in the heart of a man that defies God and tries to do it 'MY WAY' like Sinatra used to sing.

If we deviate from the Word of God, then all bets are off. Things quickly degrade into moral relativism. And we all know where that leads. The way that a man thinks is right... leads to death.

36 posted on 05/03/2002 7:45:18 PM PDT by blue jeans
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To: sinkspur
What do you have against celibacy for the priesthood?
37 posted on 05/03/2002 7:46:01 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: history_matters
Yaaayyy!!!!! Another h_m bump! So glad you're here:)
38 posted on 05/03/2002 7:47:13 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: sinkspur
Fr. Donald Cozzens is close to the truth when he says there are 30-50% of priests who are homosexual. Only, you won't know, because they are celibates. But how you do you know they are celibate? My dad once asked a priest who was a friend of his how he handled the lack of sex. He laughed and said, "I take a lot of cold showers and raid the refrigerator a lot! This is why I like to bowl, to keep my weight down."
39 posted on 05/03/2002 7:47:48 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: history_matters
The debate about gays is part of a "long-term discussion" within the church, Father Clifford said, and "I always bet on the Holy Spirit to see how it comes out."

What the hell kind of a statement is that ?
either it is or it isn't. What is this waiting to see how it comes out . The Holy Spirit is keeping it a mystery
I can't believe they make statements like this.
40 posted on 05/03/2002 7:48:31 PM PDT by uncbob
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To: RobbyS
The big thing is the "IF" Maybe we tempt them with pretty women and the guys who behave normally we keep? :-).

Your facetious example proves my point. Bevilacqua will not be able to determine who is gay and who is straight.

Should a straight man, who admits a debauched life but who says he has reformed, be accepted into a seminary over a man who is effeminate but who has never been sexually active?

41 posted on 05/03/2002 7:48:50 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Askel5
Tell it to the Holy Spirit who left his seal on you.

Hey Holy Spirit, she's your responsibility - not mine!


42 posted on 05/03/2002 7:51:14 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: RobbyS
But how you do you know they are celibate?

The same way I know a heterosexual celibate priest is celibate.

They tell the truth, they live the truth, and Christ lives in them.

That, by the way, is the way I can tell you don't cheat on your wife.

43 posted on 05/03/2002 7:53:16 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Senator Pardek
I can't believe you have that!! (I wished I'd saved the others!)
44 posted on 05/03/2002 7:54:11 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: sinkspur
Should a straight man, who admits a debauched life but who says he has reformed, be accepted into a seminary over a man who is effeminate but who has never been sexually active?

How about rejecting both?
45 posted on 05/03/2002 7:54:36 PM PDT by irishjuggler
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To: Fred Mertz
What do you have against celibacy for the priesthood?

Wrong thread, Fred.

46 posted on 05/03/2002 7:54:41 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Senator Pardek
"Do I look fat?"

(I think I prefer Loon ... )

47 posted on 05/03/2002 7:54:54 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: RLK
If he were made pope

None for me, thanks. Nothing against Cardinal Bevilacqua, whom I admire, but all the same -- if there's one good result of the present scandal it's that it puts paid to any idea of an American pope for the time being.

48 posted on 05/03/2002 7:56:26 PM PDT by Romulus
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To: sinkspur
Should a straight man, who admits a debauched life but who says he has reformed, be accepted into a seminary

Yes. That's how we got Father Corapi.

49 posted on 05/03/2002 7:58:01 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: history_matters
McBrien of Notre Dame is an Ivy Tower pinhead blowhard. The issue is obvious to ordinary people. Although I see no reason why a sexually disordered man needs to tell anyone if he truly remains celibate. What's wrong with that?
50 posted on 05/03/2002 7:59:36 PM PDT by metacognative
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