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As pope becomes more frail, talk of resignation no longer taboo
Catholic News Service ^ | 2 June A.D. 2002 | John Thavis

Posted on 06/02/2002 1:18:09 PM PDT by Siobhan

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- When Pope John Paul II was healthy, talk of papal resignation was taboo.

Now, as the 82-year-old pontiff struggles with his physical frailty, even top aides like Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the doctrinal congregation, are discussing the possibility that the pope may one day choose to step down.

Cardinal Ratzinger's comments in mid-May and those of other church leaders have given rise to a rash of resignation scenarios. The most-discussed theory hinges on the pope's planned visit to Poland in August.

Some people think the pope has in mind a one-way trip to his homeland. Under this scenario, he would announce his resignation in his former diocese of Krakow and retire to a Polish monastery to pray. In August, the number of voting members of the College of Cardinals coincidentally falls to 120 -- the upper limit set by conclave rules.

There's not much on the announced papal calendar after August, with the exception of a possible trip to Croatia in September. Vatican officials, aware of the resignation talk, recently emphasized that the Croatia trip was indeed in preparation.

Others believe the pope, who suffers from a debilitating neurological disease believed to be Parkinson's, has accepted the idea of eventual resignation but has not set a date. He will keep going until he cannot go any further, they say.

Because Parkinson's normally leads to physical incapacity, some sources have said it is likely the pope has prepared a resignation letter in case that happens. Pope Paul VI wrote a similar letter, according to a recent book by his secretary, Archbishop Pasquale Macchi.

The purpose of such a letter would be to avoid administrative paralysis of the church if a pontiff were debilitated -- perhaps suddenly -- and could not express his decision to resign.

But this kind of letter also would raise ambiguities, because any resignation by the pope must be his own decision. He cannot be "resigned" by others.

"Who is going to say to him: 'Holy Father, you are now incapacitated?' That's the problem," said Msgr. Charles Burns, a church historian who spent more than 25 years as an official of the Vatican Archives.

Church law explicitly allows for a pope to resign, but says the decision must be made freely and "duly manifested." Experts say this means in writing or with witnesses; ideally, it would be communicated to the College of Cardinals -- although no one needs to formally accept a pope's resignation for it to be valid.

Most Vatican officials agree that Pope John Paul has made his physical suffering an integral part of his papal ministry, giving his pontificate an added poignancy and a different kind of impact in recent years.

"The pope is operating under limitations that are visible to all. But he notes the big show of affection wherever he goes, and this encourages him," Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said during a May trip to Bulgaria, where the pope moved and spoke with great difficulty during his public events.

But although many agree on the pope's courage in the face of physical trials, people at the Vatican and throughout the church appear divided on the resignation issue.

Cardinal Ratzinger said the pope has an "iron will" and is still able to manage church affairs. But "if he were to see that he absolutely could not (continue), then he certainly would resign," he said.

Honduran Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga of Tegucigalpa also said he was sure the pope would have the courage to resign if he believed that, for the good of the church, a healthier man were needed in the papacy.

Because the remarks by both cardinals were reported the same day, it came across in the media almost as a lobbying campaign. But like many things at the Vatican, it was less planned than it appeared; the cardinals were simply asked the question by reporters in separate interviews.

Others have voiced the opposite view.

"The pope is not some kind of manager who, when he grows weak or sick, is set aside because he can't manage the interests of the company," said Krysztof Zanussi, an award-winning Polish film director who currently is making a documentary on the pope.

The last and perhaps the only pope who voluntarily resigned was St. Celestine V, who abdicated in 1294 after only four months in office. His "great refusal" earned him a place in the vestibule of Dante's "Inferno," but history has viewed him as a truly holy man who rejected the political machinations of the medieval papacy.

In more recent times, Msgr. Burns said, there was evidence to suggest that Pope Pius XII had left instructions that if the Nazis arrested him during World War II, the College of Cardinals was to consider him resigned and elect a new pope. The idea was that, if the Nazis marched him off to Berlin, it would be as Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli and not as Pope Pius XII.

Health questions are trickier, but have been overcome by previous pontiffs. Pope Clement XII became totally blind in the second year of his pontificate, in 1732, and in later years conducted audiences and ran the church's affairs from his bed.

"They had to put his hand on the documents, and then he scrawled his signature," Msgr. Burns said.

Church historians have sometimes marveled that modern popes have escaped the kind of serious mental deterioration often endured by the elderly.

"We've been spared that. We've been spared an awful lot," said Msgr. Burns. He and several other Vatican officials emphasized that Pope John Paul's problems are physical, not mental.

"He seems to be sharp as a tack. Maybe the day will come when he gives a big sigh and says, 'I just can't do it any longer.' But at the moment he's still determined to continue," he said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: abdication; catholicchurch; catholiclist; johnpaulii; poland; retirement; vatican
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MALACHI MARTIN ALERT: Sorry, folks, but this reads like a chapter from a Malachi Martin novel. I have no doubt that there are plenty of devious men in the Vatican and among the Cardinals -- like the Honduran prelate in this article -- who would love nothing better than to sequester this Pope in Poland, shut him up in a monastery, and elect a Pope of their liking.
1 posted on 06/02/2002 1:18:09 PM PDT by Siobhan
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To: Antoninus; sandyeggo; frogandtoad; saradippity; maryz; Jeff Chandler; ken5050; Slyfox; rose...
Bump

Please freepermail me if you would like off of my bump/ping list.

2 posted on 06/02/2002 1:19:03 PM PDT by Siobhan
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To: Siobhan; *Catholic_list
Indexing....
3 posted on 06/02/2002 1:21:03 PM PDT by Siobhan
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To: Siobhan
How many old frail Popes have been "hurried" into the afterlife? I'll bet there have been several.

(Not suggesting or encouraging that here, of course.)

4 posted on 06/02/2002 1:27:52 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Siobhan
MALACHI MARTIN ALERT: Sorry, folks, but this reads like a chapter from a Malachi Martin novel. I have no doubt that there are plenty of devious men in the Vatican and among the Cardinals -- like the Honduran prelate in this article -- who would love nothing better than to sequester this Pope in Poland, shut him up in a monastery, and elect a Pope of their liking.

Wasn't Martin a little nutty?

Ratzinger hardly sounds like someone who would welcome JPII's resignation, unless, of course, JPII can't function.

If he can't function, someone else will be running the show anyway.

5 posted on 06/02/2002 1:28:26 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Siobhan
Bump for a great new pope and a great new beginning for your church! Soon.
6 posted on 06/02/2002 1:35:18 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Dog Gone
John Paul I
7 posted on 06/02/2002 1:37:32 PM PDT by Coleus
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To: Siobhan
My grandmother died of Parkinsons (or at least it started out as Parkinsons). It is a slow, degenerative killer which takes its afflicted apart one day at a time, eventually leaving them as a vegetable. At JPII's age and health, I think it would be ludicrous for anyone to expect him to hold out until the bitter end. That would serve no purpose either for himself or for the Church. I'd say the time has come for him to pass on the torch.
8 posted on 06/02/2002 1:50:14 PM PDT by cold_vicious_logic
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To: cold_vicious_logic
Sadly, I agree. I believe that someday -- probably sooner rather than later -- JP2 will be recognized as a saint, and he's done a wonderful job leading the church into the 21st century, but I'm sure that no one realizes more than him that the church requires active leadership, not a bedfast figurehead. John Paul has served for nearly a quarter-century and has earned tranquility in his final days. There's no shame in that.
9 posted on 06/02/2002 1:59:45 PM PDT by Black Cat
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To: Siobhan
Pope Pius XII had left instructions that if the Nazis arrested him during World War II,

Doesn't sound like he was a Nazi collaborator to me.

Seriously though, I pray for our current Pope and that our next Pope can follow through with John Paul's determination, strenth and doctrines.
10 posted on 06/02/2002 2:30:42 PM PDT by AdA$tra
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To: Coleus
John Paul I

Must some of us wear tin-foil on Catholic threads as well?

11 posted on 06/02/2002 2:34:20 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: MarMema
for a great new pope and a great new beginning for your church! Soon.

Often, the worst judges of Popes are those that are alive during their Papacy, but I think he will be remembered as "The Great." I have been one of his freq. critics because he doesn't excommuncate these Bishops but I am willling to admit that perhaps, just perhaps, he knows a bit more than do I....

It is not like he doesn't know what is going on, so, one has to asume he knows that excommunicating a bevy of Bishops would not improve the situation. While it certainly would make ME feel better if he did defrock a bunch of Bishops , I am positive the Pope knows what is best for the Faith worldwide

12 posted on 06/02/2002 2:37:18 PM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: Siobhan
John Paul II was elected in October 1978. If he is still pope in October 2003, he can celebrate his jubilee. I don't know if that is a consideration with him.

Only 2 popes in the past millennium have made it past the 25-year mark: Piux IX (1846-1878) and Leo XIII (1878-1903), the latter with just a few months to spare. Two other popes fell just short: Pius VI (24 years, 6 months and 14 days) and Pius VII (23 years, 5 months and 16 days). John Paul II is now at 23 years and 7 months.

13 posted on 06/02/2002 2:42:35 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Verginius Rufus
he can celebrate his jubilee.

He's in no condition to celebrate.

14 posted on 06/02/2002 2:57:32 PM PDT by Lessismore
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To: sinkspur
When one considers the current state of the Church, especially in the US, I think Martin is looking more and more like a prophet.
15 posted on 06/02/2002 3:23:49 PM PDT by Niagara
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To: Siobhan
It's very unlikely he will resign. Just as it wouldn't do the U.S. much harm if congress took a vacation for a few years and forgot to pass any new laws, it wouldn't do the Church any harm if the Pope were to fall ill for a few years and didn't write any encyclicals. This Pope has written more great encyclicals than any ten other popes. I quiet period in the Church wouldn't do any harm, and if God doesn't want that, He can take the Pope to himself any time He decides.

Dante called the action of a medieval pope who resigned and was replaced by a wicked successor, "il gran refuto," and he gave him a place in hell in the Divine Comedy for resigning. No, I think this pope will patiently accept whatever God sends him.

16 posted on 06/02/2002 4:07:46 PM PDT by Cicero
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To: Siobhan
This is nonsense. Popes don't resign!
17 posted on 06/02/2002 4:16:27 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: sinkspur
"some of us" also don't think there's anything wrong with the Masons either!
18 posted on 06/02/2002 4:26:54 PM PDT by Lady In Blue
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To: Salvation
Bump! Exactly!
19 posted on 06/02/2002 4:27:56 PM PDT by Lady In Blue
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To: Catholicguy
Bump to your post.And as an aside, as a traditional Catholic,I believe that the last person on earth,we should criticize is the Vicar of Christ.I remember hearing an old Italian saying which goes something like this: "If you try to eat the Pope,you will get indigestion." I think that's pretty close to it.
20 posted on 06/02/2002 4:33:12 PM PDT by Lady In Blue
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To: sinkspur
"some of us" also don't think there's anything wrong with the Masons either!

18 posted on 6/2/02 4:26 PM Pacific by Lady In Blue


I meant that to be sarcastic,of course!

21 posted on 06/02/2002 4:34:08 PM PDT by Lady In Blue
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To: Cicero
Dante called the action of a medieval pope who resigned and was replaced by a wicked successor, "il gran refuto," and he gave him a place in hell in the Divine Comedy for resigning.

Yea, but the Church canonized that Pope, Celestine V.

Shows what Dante knew.

22 posted on 06/02/2002 4:34:36 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Cicero
If Parkinson's takes its normal course, JPII will become incapacitated at some point.

Who will be "running" the Church?

23 posted on 06/02/2002 4:36:45 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: cold_vicious_logic
I worked in nursing homes for many, many years, and took care of so many Parkinsons patients during their final months and years....

You are so correct about this being a slow, degenerative disease, that leaves its victim, at the very end, in a terribly debilitated state...often unable to move, unable to speak, virtually unable to do anything at all and having to have their every need attended to....many also develop dementia....most are completely bedridden at the end...

But its also true, that Parkinsons can follow different paths at different rates for different individuals...Its obvious that the Pope is ill, and that much of what he does in the course of his duties, is painful for him...yet, bless his heart, he endures...

I am not Catholic, but do admire the Pope...I only pray, that he will be true to himself and to God, and do what he thinks is in the best interest of his flock...

Yet, its difficult to know if there are behind the scenes actions taken by those who surround the Pope, whether to try to keep him as Pope, past the point where he is able to function on his own, to those who would try to rid the Church of him, in hopes of securing a Pope more to their own ideals...

I do know, that should the Pope continue to decline, both physically and mentally, there is a real problem involved here, and I have no answers for the dilemma...

I just continue to pray for the Pope, and for his well being...

24 posted on 06/02/2002 4:41:57 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: Salvation
This is nonsense. Popes don't resign!

Why not? Can the church expect to be well-served by some senile old man who probably belongs in a nursing home? I consider the current reign an absymal failure as it is due to the indecision and inaction regarding the horrific and massive sex scandal caused by homosexual predators masquerading as priests and other clergy in order to defile and destroy the lives of innocent children.

Time to get a younger Pope elected who will have the energy to clean the church out from top to bottom and restore the Catholic Church to its former glory once again.

But hey, it ain't my church so if others who belong to it want to see it continue on its path to ruin, so be it. It's a shame though.

25 posted on 06/02/2002 4:42:30 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: Coleus
Exactly.
26 posted on 06/02/2002 5:07:34 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Dog Gone

27 posted on 06/02/2002 5:14:53 PM PDT by rmvh
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To: Catholicguy
My hope is for one who is less ecumenically-minded, personally.
28 posted on 06/02/2002 5:19:37 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Dog Gone
DG, what you say is true. My Italian Catholic grandparents lived in southern Italy for over half of their lives. They used to say it was common knowledge that when the higher ups wanted to get rid of somebody, they just put a little something in their drink. Of course, Italians are so used to corruption in their government and the like, they say this matter of factly with a little shrug of their shoulders like "What can you do?"

For a very compelling read, check out 'In God's Name, The Murder of Pope John Paul I' by David A. Yallop. The author is not Catholic but was contacted by people inside the Vatican and supplied with documents and information that is difficult if not impossible to get otherwise. The book is detailed and well written. Yallop is not a big fan of the Catholic Church but he for the most part is able to remain objective. The Vatican has never refuted the specifics of the book but simply issued general condemnations. Players in that book were also shielded in the Vatican, which is one reason I fear Cardinal Law will disappear there at some point and not return to America.

So little is known about JP I, but from all accounts he was a simple, humble, honest and holy man. If this story is true, then he was a martyr for the Faith. I often wonder if they exhumed his body if it would be found incorrupt.

29 posted on 06/02/2002 5:27:09 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Siobhan
VIVA PAPA!

Thank you Lord for such a fine Pope.

30 posted on 06/02/2002 6:04:12 PM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: sinkspur
art bell thought malachi was VERY credible, so he must've.....uh..uh.. on second thought...never mind.
31 posted on 06/02/2002 6:04:16 PM PDT by troublesome creek
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To: troublesome creek
Back in the 70's (or early 80's) Malachi Martin was the religious correspondent for National Review magazine.
32 posted on 06/02/2002 6:18:39 PM PDT by bigeggo
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To: Siobhan
Most people would be lucly to ever be as sharp as John Paul II is now. During the course of his life, he has escaped death an amazing number of times. The people who are counting him out are sorely mistaken. He may outlive many of the people currently rushing him.
33 posted on 06/02/2002 6:20:48 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: MarMema
You should be ashamed of yourself for your unChristian thoughts.
34 posted on 06/02/2002 6:22:05 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: Cap'n Crunch
"VIVA PAPA!"

Long live potatos??

35 posted on 06/02/2002 6:34:29 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: humblegunner
ah, no.
36 posted on 06/02/2002 6:39:59 PM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: nickcarraway
The Holy Father needs prayers not speculation on his retirement. I have a very visceral reaction to anyone trying to usher John Paul II out the door. In due time he will be known as John Paul the Great and perhaps St. John Paul the Great. Even in his frail state, he has more going for him than almost any Cardinal because he has been anointed by God to be the Vicar of Christ.
37 posted on 06/02/2002 6:53:27 PM PDT by Siobhan
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To: Siobhan
Even in his frail state, he has more going for him than almost any Cardinal because he has been anointed by God to be the Vicar of Christ.

Indeed. I truly believe with all my heart that the finger of God chose our beloved Pope. He has been a wonder, and I pray for him every day. I believe that he will continue to carry his burden courageously until God brings him home to rest.

I can only hope and pray that the College of Cardinals will allow the will of God to move them when it comes time to select our next Pope.

38 posted on 06/02/2002 6:57:33 PM PDT by Malacoda
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To: Coleus
JP I was bumped off by the Notre Dame fan club. During his brief reign they lost two games in a row - at home. It had never happened before. He had to go! Once JP II was elected, Notre Dame went on to win the national football championship under the late Dan Devine.

If the Knights of Columbus off me, you will know why. I told.

39 posted on 06/02/2002 7:18:42 PM PDT by Chemnitz
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To: Siobhan
You couldn't be more correct about the Pope needing our prayers. I believe a lot of the speculation comes from outsided the Church Why I have even heard it on the news.
40 posted on 06/02/2002 9:03:12 PM PDT by Angelique
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To: sinkspur
From what natural cause did he die? Where is the autopsy?
41 posted on 06/02/2002 9:31:55 PM PDT by Coleus
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To: SamAdams76
Mother Nature says it is time to get called back to the head office.
42 posted on 06/02/2002 9:39:24 PM PDT by Illwind
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To: Coleus
From what natural cause did he die? Where is the autopsy?

The Vatican doesn't release autopsy results, on any pope.

Men in their sixties do die of heart attacks.

And everything is not a conspiracy.

43 posted on 06/02/2002 9:40:17 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
I think the Holy Father is in terrible pain. I think those around him love him. The very fact that he has taken the number of cardinals up to 120 means that he knows he doesn't have long and wants to make sure there are as many conservative cardinals as possible when it comes time to elect a new pope.

I'm not catholic, but I have a tremendous amount of affection for this pope, I pray that God grants him relief and comfort.

44 posted on 06/02/2002 9:41:14 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: Siobhan
In 1996, JPII wrote an apostolic constitution on the selection of the next Pope, Universi Dominici Gregis
45 posted on 06/02/2002 11:37:27 PM PDT by Slyfox
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To: Siobhan
Thanks for posting this. It gives me a chance to ask: If the Holy Father doesn't have long to live, what's the rush to get someone else in his place? Can't his enemies wait for a sick old man to die in peace? What purpose would be served by his resignation? He is pope for life, after all...
46 posted on 06/02/2002 11:47:52 PM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: goldenstategirl
'In God's Name, The Murder of Pope John Paul I' by David A. Yallop.

I read the book and I think it makes an excellent charcoal starter. The Abbe de Nantes (Catholic Counter Reformation in the 20th Century)also thinks he was murdered. So, from the non-Catholic left to the extreme, insane, schismatic right, common ground can be found and comrades can embrace and unity of thought can be acheived - as long as the common enemy is the Papacy.

BTW, I know longer have the book but I recall MANY factual errors in the book

47 posted on 06/03/2002 4:54:26 AM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: Slyfox; Judith Anne
Thanks for the link to that Apostolic Constitution, Slyfox. I was especially struck by the Pope's words as follows:

1. During the vacancy of the Apostolic See, the College of Cardinals has no power or jurisdiction in matters which pertain to the Supreme Pontiff during his lifetime or in the exercise of his office, such matters are to be reserved completely and exclusively to the future Pope. I therefore declare null and void any act of power or jurisdiction pertaining to the Roman Pontiff during his lifetime or in the exercise of his office which the College of Cardinals might see fit to exercise, beyond the limits expressly permitted in this Constitution.

48 posted on 06/03/2002 8:15:31 AM PDT by Siobhan
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To: Siobhan
Yeah, that kind of impressed me also.
49 posted on 06/03/2002 9:05:17 AM PDT by Slyfox
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To: Slyfox
How are things in Dallas/McKinney?
50 posted on 06/03/2002 9:08:11 AM PDT by Siobhan
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