Drop French, Says Heads And Teach Urdu Instead

The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 6-2-2002 | Macer Hall

[blam]

Drop French, say heads and teach Urdu instead

By Macer Hall, Education Correspondent
(Filed: 02/06/2002)

Head teachers will this week call for schools to teach African and Asian languages instead of French and German in a reform designed to reflect the "ethnic mix" of the British population.

At its annual conference in Torquay, the National Association of Head Teachers will discuss giving African languages, including Somali and Hausa, the same importance as the main European tongues. The head teachers also suggest that Albanian, Punjabi and Urdu be added to the curriculum.

They say that expanding the teaching of such languages will benefit all pupils, but in particular those from the ethnic minorities, and enable them to study for a wider range of language qualifications.

Last night Nick Seaton, the chairman of the Campaign for Real Education, a parents' pressure group, expressed fears that the change could be counterproductive.

"I would have thought that youngsters would be better off spending their time learning English, most importantly, and then other European languages," he said. "There is little enough time in the school day as it is. That time should be spent learning something useful."

The NAHT motion calls on the Government "to promote the status of Asian and African languages and to encourage their study as a qualification in addition to or instead of languages of European origin".

Tim Benson, the head teacher of Nelson Primary School in east London, who will propose the change, said: "In schools like mine many of the children are speaking and learning English as their second, third or even fourth language.

"The assessment system in this country just does not recognise those achievements. It would be very good for the child's self-esteem if they could be assessed in their own language."

The languages spoken by his school's 865 pupils include Punjabi, Urdu and the southern Nigerian tongue Urhobo. Recently, a number of Albanian-speaking children from Kosovo had also joined the school.

"If I had 100 pupils and 80 of them were speaking French, then my school would be heralded as a great success. Because my children are speaking Urhobo, Punjabi, or whatever it might be, that is not the case," he added.

Secondary schools are required to teach a foreign language until the age of 14, with most opting for French, German or Spanish. Individual schools, at both primary and secondary level, are free to offer other languages if they wish. Supporters of the proposed change say that in future pupils should be able to study African and Asian languages at GCSE, AS and A-level.

Last night the proposal was backed by education groups that advise the Government on education policy. Steven Fawkes, the president-elect of the Association for Language Learning, said: "There should be equality between the languages. We want to get away from just learning French at school. People who come to this country find that their foreign language skills are not valued."

Alwena Lamping, the co-ordinator of the Nuffield Languages Programme, said: "Businesses are short of people with eastern language skills but nobody seems to put the two together."

English is an additional tongue for 607,345 pupils, just under nine per cent of the country's schoolchildren, according to the latest figures from the Department for Education.

Some examination boards offer GCSE, AS and A-level exams in non-European languages, among them Arabic, Bengali, Gujarati, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Persian, Punjabi, Turkish and Urdu, but not African languages. About 10,000 students each year sit GCSE examinations in Punjabi, Urdu, Gujarati and Bengali.

An official for the Department for Education said that the head teachers' proposal would be "looked at" if it was formally submitted to the Government.

He added, however, that the idea might prove unpalatable for some staff: "At the same time as this, head teachers are calling for smaller workloads for teachers - but this idea would only increase their work."

[blam]

Europeans are determined to 'erase' themselves.

[Diogenesis]

Great idea. They should use Ebonic-urdu.

Then they be workin' on cuttin' those silly numbers.

[kitkat]

Blam, you said it and it only took you six words. I'll have to use a few more.

***People who come to this country find that their foreign language skills are not valued."***

Alwena Lamping, the co-ordinator of the Nuffield Languages Programme, said: "Businesses are short of people with eastern language skills but nobody seems to put the two together."

Do those two sentences seem to contradict each other?

I wish I could make a phone call to a business office and get someone who speaks MY language. English. Charming old language, whatever became of it?

[Celtjew Libertarian]

You should have to learn English first in any English-speaking nation. But, after that, I see no reason why any language, especially if it has its own literature, is better or worse than another. Heck, the way things are going these days, Russian and Urdu are likely to be more useful languages than French.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

Europeans are determined to 'erase' themselves

I wish the French, at least, would get on with it, already.

[bloggerjohn]

I'm all for dropping French.

They don't really like us, you know.

But I would suggest PHP or C++ instead of Urdu, as being more useful.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

But I would suggest PHP or C++ instead of Urdu, as being more useful.

Depends on if you want to be able to write the program or talk to the programmer. 8>)

[mamelukesabre]

If they wanted to teach one of the various forms of arabic, I might see their point. But teaching Urdu is just stupid.

[widgysoft]

Not when its a lovely socialist government!! </sarcasm>

[McGavin999]

Oh yes, it will really come in handy when you're trying to read those great classics written in the native language. You know, like.........hmmmm.........

[Eala]

Head teachers will this week call for schools to teach African and Asian languages instead of French and German in a reform designed to reflect the "ethnic mix" of the British population.

If they really wanted reflect the "ethnic mix" better, and absolve themselves for some of their imperial guilt into the bargain, they'd be calling for the schools to teach Ga\idhlig (Scottish Gaelic) instead of suppressing it. (Well, okay, the active suppression is largely over now that the language is at risk of disappearing, but...) But I guess the fact that Gaelic-speakers are white Europeans doesn't make them sufficiently politically correct.

Suas leis a' Gha\idhlig!

[jimtorr]

Strangely enough, Scottish Gaelic was offered at Foothill Junior College, in Los Altos Hills, CA, when I was taking Chinese Mandarin five years ago. There are lots of what I call scottish "groupies" in central CA. I'm one. I developed a taste for Scottish music and culture when I was there ten years ago after I discovered that my family (on both sides) originated in Scotland.

[blam]

Geez...I remember when they built that college.

[Arkinsaw]

Yeah, Albanian is going to be a really useful language to learn. Here are some good first phrases to learn.

"Sir, my I hitch a ride on your donkey cart?"
"Which way to the latrine hole?"
"How much for the plate of dirt?"
"I will trade this rock for a handful of grass."

[Myrddin]

The immigrants need to be taught English language and English culture so that can be productive members of that society. If they don't want that, they should see a travel agent and return to a place that features the language and culture they prefer. I applaud the French for trying to maintain their language and culture as well. Ditto for the Welsh. It is a colossal error to allow immigrants to arrive in your nation and attempt to overthrow the language and culture. The U.S. seems bent on that stupidity with the Mexican invasion in the southwest.

Teaching French and German as "foreign" languages has value to the English and the immigrants. Scientific papers and quality literature are written on those languages. Is Urdu or any of the African languages referenced in the article in common use in the scientific community, arts or literature? I suspect not. The only purpose for teaching those languages is to placate the foreign invasion and permit balkanization of the country.

[Myrddin]

I've been trying to learn Welsh for 10 years. I can read it and speak it to a limited degree. It is hard to make any serious progress when my only opportunities to interact with a Welsh speaker occur during a few days of vacation. That hasn't happened since April '99. At least the Welsh are trying to keep the language alive. They count over 500,000 speakers today. The Scots may very well lose the language if they don't make an effort. I think the Irish will be able to hold their own. They aren't as heavily infiltrated with speakers of other languages as those on the island co-habited by England, Wales and Scotland.

[altair]

the way things are going these days, Russian and Urdu are likely to be more useful languages than French.

I fail to see the importance of Urdu. Is Urdu spoken anywhere other than Pakistan? Russian is probably more useful than French and I would think Chinese also more important than French.

[bescobar]

Oh, I thought the post said drop kick France...never mind

[Celtjew Libertarian]

I suspect that India is going to be one of the next hotspots for business and a major ally of the U.S. this century. Assuming Urdu is the dialect of India to learn for this -- and I could be wrong with regard to that -- I'd say it's more useful language to learn than French.

[Snuffington]

Assuming Urdu is the dialect of India to learn for this -- and I could be wrong with regard to that -- I'd say it's more useful language to learn than French.

There are literally hundreds of languages in India. People from different parts of India generally cannot communicate with each other in a native Indian language, because they're unlikely to speak the same one. The only language used nationwide is English.

[twigs]

I can read it and speak it to a limited degree.

I envy you. A number of years ago, I was engaged to a Welsh immigrant who came first to the US and then to Canada. He is a journalist, so he uses the English language beautifully. But when he told me he still thought in Welsh, which amazed me, I asked him to speak it. Wow! What a BEAUTIFUL language!

[varon]

They should use Ebonic-urdu. (my emphasis)

ROFLMAO

[varon]

There are literally hundreds of languages in India……………..//………………..The only language used nationwide is English.

There are more people speaking English in India than in the USA ;-)

[Myrddin]

My cousins in Pontrhydygroes said the same thing. They can speak English, but they think in Welsh. That sometimes causes a pause in response. I was out in the garden with my friends in Cwmystwyth one afternoon. A very beautiful bird landed on a nearby tree. My friends recognized the bird and knew what to call it...in Welsh. They didn't have any idea of what it was called in English.

I listen to Welsh music performed in the dialect that is common in the mid-valleys. My favorite folk group is "Plethyn". The lead singer in that group in Linda Healy. She has a number of her own albums. You can buy the music directly from Sain in Wales via their website. The Plethyn cassette "Teulu'r Tir" is a nice collection and representative of the typical fine quality of singing in very close harmony. Plethyn literally translates as "entwined".

Before I post this, I'll point out that Welsh is phonetic and those names have more vowels than are apparent. The name "Cwmyswyth" is approximately "koom UHST' with" for an English speaker. Pontrhydygroes is approximately "pont RID' uh groys". Stress is on the penultimate syllable. The "r" is always rolled.

[Eala]

Strangely enough, Scottish Gaelic was offered at Foothill Junior College, in Los Altos Hills, CA

No! I'm an FJC "graduate" (though it was a long time ago...). I know there is an active Bay Area group -- we hear a lot about them here in the Seattle area (Slighe nan Gaidheal).

[Eala]

I've been trying to learn Welsh for 10 years. I can read it and speak it to a limited degree.

It is difficult without a "support system." The wife knows a very little Welsh, though her years in the Seattle Welsh Choir gave her native pronunciation. :-) You're right about Scots Gaelic though... it's fallen to about 80,000 native speakers and it's anyone's guess which way it will go from here.

[twigs]

Thank you VERY much for the information about Welsh, particularly that about phonetics. I am currently back in college to get certified to teach English (and History) and I have found myself really drawn to the folk tales of Great Britain--Anglo-Saxon, Irish and Welsh. I would LOVE to know the languages, but at this point, have limited myself to learning Old English. I just got a book yesterday on learning OE grammar.

Genealogy is my hobby and from what I can tell, almost all my lines lead back to either Anglo-Saxon England or possibly Celtish Cornwall. My husband's genealogy, from what we know, seems to be all German and English, yet he is dark enough that he was asked by a Morroccan if he was an Arab. When I mentioned this to our family doctor, he suggested that he looks like his Welsh patients, a group who recently immigrated to this country. I thought that was interesting.

[philosofy123]

Where are you Pat Buchanan? You are a profit!

[blam]

"Where are you Pat Buchanan? You are a profit!"

Profit=Prophet (bump)

[gilor]

Euro Self-Hate/Guilt????

[Myrddin]

My PAF geneology database goes back to 1420. About 4,000 people in the database. The Welsh geneology comes to a halt at 1777 around the village of Llanfihangel y Creuddyn. The Welsh maintained a patronymic family name structure until 1756 when the English forced the use of surnames. Many Welsh created surnames by making a genitive form of a forename. Robert->Roberts, John->Johns, Edward->Edwards. Some patronymic forms were anglicized. John ap Howell became John Powell. Rhys ab Owain became Rhys Bowen. The original patronymic forms were generally maintained in 3 generation format and associated with a specific house name. My great great grandfather's house in Ysbty Ystwyth was name "Tynewydd" which translates as "new house". The address used by my friends in Cwmystwyth is given by their house name "Afallon" rather than by a house number on a road. That is the norm in the back country of Wales.

Good luck in the pursuit of your studies. If I can be of assistance in finding resources around Wales for you, please feel free to ask.

[twigs]

Thank you once again! I always thought that Owain became Owen, which is a frequent name in my collateral line, as is Johns (I'm from VA). My husband's dark coloring comes from his mother, who was a Dine, a name so far associated with the English. I have set aside the genealogy for awhile so that I can finish school, but I look forward to going back to it. My dear husband points out that I have a very bland genealogy (all A/S) but he obviously has interesting genes from somewhere!

Do you live in Wales now? My former finance was from Cardiff and he was still continuing to have difficulties because the building housing his birth certificate burned down years ago.

[Myrddin]

I'm in Idaho right now. I paid the cost of moving my family from San Diego, CA to Chubbuck, ID in December 2000. That pretty much drained my resources for vacation time in Wales for a bit. My customer in San Diego closed the business yesterday, so my job right now is lining up more work to keep the bills paid.

The vacations I've taken to Wales and contacts made have greatly improved my ability to find the right information with minimal effort. My two oldest sons will be headed back to college in the fall, so they have eliminated any financial resources for a vacation this year too.

If you can't afford to make the trip to the National Library in Aberyswyth, there are many reputable geneologists who can perform specific research on your behalf at the library. My friends in Cwmystwyth arranged quite a nice surprise on one of our visits. They located the actual paper document that transferred parental custody of my great grandfather and his two sisters to their uncle in Llanfihangel y Creuddyn in 1851. That document became a lead that showed that most of the family had come from that village. I had been on a few "wild goose chases" in adjacent villages with no prior success. Many of the original documents are archived in Aberystwyth. The many chapels around the country have consolidated their individual records at the national archive.

[CaptRon]

ROTFLMAO! You're going to get me FIRED!

[jimtorr]

Well, actually I'm not in the bay area anymore. I moved to Maryland two years ago, in the liberal waste land between DC and Baltimore. Sometimes I think the only reason I moved was so that I could freep the creep on saturdays.

[Eala]

Well, actually I'm not in the bay area anymore. I moved to Maryland two years ago, in the liberal waste land between DC and Baltimore.

Ha. Now you're pretty close to the East Coast center of Scottish Gaelic -- An Comunn Gàidhealach America (ACGA, The Gaelic Society of America) is sort of centered in Virginia -- Herndon, Richmond...

Cheers.