Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Skyline Drive Lesbian Murders (1996)(Condit-Levy)
6-17-02 | crystalk

Posted on 06/17/2002 11:16:35 AM PDT by crystalk

We have seen in the "Condit-style" and in the "Arkancide"-style murders a tendency for the official cover stories to try to blame the killings on a place. The ten killings mentioned in the Chandra websites as possibly Condit-related, all have been tagged in official media to some specific spot and some alleged series of murders going on in that place-- with the other members of the alleged series tending to vanish upon examination.

In the case of the 1996 double murder on the Skyline Drive near Luray, Virginia, I am at a loss to say whether it more resembles Condit, or Arkancide a la Caity Mahoney, a DC intern and alleged lesbian lover of Hillary Rodham Clinton. What it does have in common is the same lack of firmness in anything the public has ever been told, the same feeling that even the most critical and vital clues or information may be retracted at any moment.

Here is the bare bones story of the Williams-Winans killings, alleged lesbian lovers aged 24 and 26 respectively, currently officially said to have been killed on the night after Monday, May 27, 1996, and with bodies discovered only as dark fell on Saturday, June 1, 1996. I have read about 20 published stories on this case, and persons seeking citations are invited to use a search engine.

Around midday on Sunday, May 19, 1996, the two young women arrived in the Shenandoah National Park and took out a back-country camping permit for five nights. They planned to leave the park on Friday, May 24, before the Memorial Day crowd would be there. Friends in an eastern city (Baltimore, as I recall) were expecting them for the 3-day weekend (May 25-27).

Their permit stated an area in which they planned to camp, but rangers later could not recall seeing their car at all in this period, esp not where it logically would be for access to the stated destination. Rangers do routinely find the campsites of, and check the permits of, at least 80% of the campers in the long, narrow park, where even the furthest back campsites are less than 5 miles from the Skyline Drive. Yet it appears no one saw the young ladies and their golden retriever Taj, anywhere, not on the trails, nor in the camping zones, nowhere.

Suddenly, on the Friday May 24, the day they planned to leave, they appeared on a well-touristed mountain climb in the park, not too bedraggled or worse for wear. They seemed cheerful and outgoing, chatting and joking with fellow climbers, taking a whole roll of film, having bystanders photograph them together, and the like. Despite having been [supposedly] in the back country with only what they could carry in, including tent, stove, sleeping bags, food for themselves and the dog, and the like...there is no evidence they bought more provisions on this day, nor that they showered at the established campsites or elsewhere. They did see a ranger and extend their camping permit for three days.

It later developed that their friends who were expecting them for the weekend were stood up, no call. On Monday, May 27, the last day of the weekend, the father of Ms Winans called in some desperation to the Park offices, insisted on declaring the girls missing and having a report made, despite being told of the time extension and that they were only expected to leave the park that same day. Word went out to all the offices and facilities in the Park to be on the lookout for the girls, their car, their dog, etc. But no one took it very seriously, for the Park felt their intended stay was only then coming to an end.

Late Wed (29) or early Thu (30), however, their car was found seemingly intact and fine, at a parking area indicating their possible camping in another back country area. No one had seen them, not even to pass on trail and say hi, no ranger had seen their camp in the daily back country patrol/visits. Just like the earlier 5 days, and now this was getting to be another 6 days!

Once the car was found [another incredible: rangers felt it impossible it can have been there the whole time, with Park visitors and employees asked to look for it.], the panic and search began in earnest. The likely camping areas based on car location were scoured on Thurs and Fri (30/31 May), with no result.

On the Saturday June 1, visitors to the Park including the most casual tourists and senior citizens coming up to eat at the Skyline Lodge, etc. were questioned and beseeched concerning any possible sighting of the women and their dog, their tent etc.

At 8:30 pm on the Sat., searchers returning in despair to the Skyline Lodge found the girls' tent in a hidden obscure cove only a few hundred yards from the Lodge itself, in a spot completely unlikely based on the car's location, and also just a few hundred yards from the Skyline Drive itself and maintained large, tourist trails.

Backcountry campers had been advised, even forbidden, to come and camp in close to busy areas like this...and worst of all, since the main reason anyone WOULD do so...might be to come in and use the facilities, eat, buy supplies, etc.--NO ONE HAD SEEN THE GIRLS IN OR AT THE LODGE, shopping, eating, showering, buying supplies, nothing. Their dog had appeared at the Lodge only on Saturday morning, with the dead girls supposedly in their tent 200 yards away for the past 5 days. (!!)

The girls had both been killed by slitting of throat, nothing had been taken, money, camera, and credit cards intact. No rape, no assault, no signs of a struggle! Park officials continued the search till Monday evening the 3rd without announcing the finding of the bodies, supposedly in hopes the perp might return to the scene of the crime. Based upon the condition of the bodies, and the girls dressed for sleep, etc. it was officially declared they were murdered while sleeping late on the night after Monday, May 27. There were no signs of a struggle, and no signs of any secondary disturbance of the crime scene by animals or people.

Initial theories that the girls might have been hurt or in distress, and tried to hike in and might not have realized how near to civilization they were, fall on the fact that the camp was very well made, tent well pitched, hours taken, good order everywhere, not in haste nor emergency. Elaborate care had been taken to put the tent in a terribly hidden, concealed spot-- not to make it or themselves findable near obvious, large, maintained trails immediately at hand.

They would have noticed lights and sounds from the Lodge, and certainly after first night there would have realized how close to the Lodge, and how far from the car, they were! But no one ever saw them at the Lodge.

For nearly six years this case remained a mystery. But in April of this year, 2002, a man already in prison in Va., Darrell David Rice of Columbia, Md., was charged with these murders, based upon his [Guandique-style unexplainable] "assault" upon a female Canadian cyclist in July of 1997, 14 months after the W/W killings.

Trouble is, the State's case is very weak: they cannot show he was in the Park, nor even in Virginia, when the crimes were committed.

He is 34 now, would have been 28 when the deeds were done.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption
KEYWORDS: arkancide; condidit; condit; luray; murders; skyline
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-66 next last
You see where I am headed. Where is the evidence the two young women EVER CAMPED IN THE PARK AT ALL. Isn't it more likely this was an elaborate cover, while they were in fact somewhere else such as in Luray less than 10 miles away, or in DC some 85 miles away?

Where is the evidence they could ever have carried all this equipment, food, etc. They were not marvels of strength or physical stamina.

If the girls had been dead 200 yards from the paved road for 5 days, with countless tourists and hikers passing in the immediate area, why did not their dog appear to the people, or at the Lodge, until SATURDAY June 1?

Looks like a Conditcide or Arkancide to me!

1 posted on 06/17/2002 11:16:35 AM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: aristeides; Thinkin Gal; Plummz; Sarah W; muawiyah; mrustow; dennisw
crystalk ping
2 posted on 06/17/2002 11:18:50 AM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
I forget where the victims lived. Was it in the D.C. area? Would they have had occasion to meet any of the prominent lesbians in the Clinton administration?
3 posted on 06/17/2002 11:33:58 AM PDT by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
If they were going to visit friends in Baltimore, there's a good chance they would have known Caity Mahoney (one of the founders of the Lesbian Avengers in Baltimore) or friends of hers.
4 posted on 06/17/2002 11:36:03 AM PDT by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
There is no "Skyline Lodge" in the SNP.
5 posted on 06/17/2002 11:48:28 AM PDT by CapandBall
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CapandBall
Your post is just the kind I hate. Picky, picky. SkyLAND Lodge, but it is on the SkyLINE Drive, much more famous name and word, I will just betcha that 90% of Virginians call it the SkyLINE Lodge. For you, SkyLAND, SkyLAND....

For a recent story redacting the crime after discussing the suspect in Va prison...try

http:www.readthehook.com/stories/2002/04/18/explosivewords.html

6 posted on 06/17/2002 12:40:46 PM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: all
To the picky: Yes, I also forgot the two slashes after the http:// in the foregoing.

This story, newer than my info when I wrote the above, also notes that their tent was actually in site of a horse trail and a fire road as well as being some 200 yrds from SkyLAND Lodge.

Could it have stood there for a week without having a ranger approach and ask for their permit, or having some curious dog sniff the corpses and whine?

I say no. I say the bodies were brought there and we were set up with another pretty picture.

7 posted on 06/17/2002 12:46:05 PM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
This partial transcript from "America's Most Wanted" differs quite a bit from your description of Williams/Winan and their time in the park:
[Host, John Walsh] On May 18, the experienced backpackers decided to go exploring. They set off from Vermont and headed south to central Virginia to the Shenandoah National Park. Julie and Lollie arrived at the northern park entrance on May 19th, and got a camping permit for two nights. They stopped at Pinnacles' Overlook on Skyline Drive. Lollie's dog, Taj, went along on the trip. The FBI and Park Rangers retraced Julie and Lollie's trip and put together a timeline, using snapshots the women took themselves. May 20th, Julie and Lollie hiked down White Oak Canyon Trail to experience the spectacular waterfalls. Despite two days of rain, they got an extension on their camping permit at Thornton Gap on May 22nd.

[Ranger Barbara Stewart] They had registered to go backcountry camping from, I believe, the 22nd to the 27th of May. When I got a chance to talk to them about, you know, about other things, just in the few minutes, I liked them, and, I didn't know their names then, but they were nice folks.

[Host, John Walsh] On May 23rd, Julie and Lollie hiked to Pollocks Knob on the Appalachian Trail. They took this photo below Crescent Rock Overlook.

[FBI, Bill Falls] Friday, on the 24th, is the last day that we actually have pictures of them.

[Host, John Walsh] Julie and Lollie hiked up Hawksbill Mountain, the highest point in the park, and took a break with Taj at Bird's Nest Two. Tired from the trek, the women hitched a ride from Hawksbill, stopping near Skyland to find a campsite for the night.

[Ranger Clayton Jordan] One of our Park Rangers drove them to a parking lot located at the top of this trail and that is the last confirmed siting of Julianne Williams and Lollie Winans alive.

8 posted on 06/17/2002 12:48:10 PM PDT by drjimmy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: drjimmy
Right, I admit skipping over details of what they did May 19-24, for presumably that was less important to their deaths and the probable cover-up on that.

The fact is that the official story says they camped virtually on top of the busiest spot in the SNP no later than Monday afternoon 5/27, and that no curious ranger or dog approached that tent until searchers did so on Sat nite 6/1.

If you would contend they really DID camp until May 24, it would have no impact on my thesis that they did NOT, at the location where found for that last week when the official stories have them lying there dead, with their dog who knows where, but giving no alarm.

In other words, the minute they come off the mtn on 5/24 your story segues into mine. For eight days we are together. They were never seen alive again after the 24th, and it seems utterly impossible they can have been where found for more than a matter of hours without being spotted, in part for violation of park rules.

9 posted on 06/17/2002 12:56:18 PM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
To bad Dr. Scarpetta could not help?
10 posted on 06/17/2002 1:26:15 PM PDT by oldironsides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
You weren't just "skipping over details of what they did May 19-24," you explicitly claim they must never have camped in the park at all, and somehow make the leap that it is "more likely" they went to Luray or DC. Thank you for posting the link to the recent news article. It gives even more credence to the likelihood that Darrell David Rice murdered the women. The only similarity between this case and the Chandra Levy murder is that a guy named Darrell may have been involved!
11 posted on 06/17/2002 1:41:22 PM PDT by drjimmy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: drjimmy
You are just shooting at targets of opportunity. I stated openly that I was giving just the bare bones of the story. Some glitzy show like AMW hardly is a hard source, or one likely to give anything controversial.

Nothing you have presented can explain where the girls were for 8 days from May 24 to June 1, nor why their plans changed, nor satisfy the obvious panic of Mr. Winans.

Nor does it give any evidence whatever that they were camped in the park at all on or after the night of May 24, much less at the site in busy public use--in which their bodies were found on the night of Saturday, June 1.

12 posted on 06/17/2002 1:49:49 PM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: drjimmy; all
Further, your story does nothing to establish that they actually CAMPED. Why did rangers never come upon their tent in the early evening as they try to do, to check permits and make sure all is well?

Your post from AMW differs from my original post only in saying that they obtained permits first for two days, then five more...where mine (from memory) says they obtained them first for five days...then three more.

BOTH STORIES STATE ONLY THAT PERMITS WERE OBTAINED. Neither story says that any ranger ever actually saw their tent pitched, or where they were or had been camping.

Nothing was seen of that nature until 8:30 pm on Sat. June 1, and by then their bodies indicated they had been dead (officially) for nearly 6 days, though other stories I have read say that med examiners can really only say they had been dead somewhere between 5 and 7, or 8, days....

13 posted on 06/17/2002 1:57:02 PM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
I live 10 miles from Skyland, every Virginian I know calls it Skyland. It is the highest lodge in the park.

Where is the evidence they could ever have carried all this equipment, food, etc. They were not marvels of strength or physical stamina

It is not tough to carry gear & 10 days of food, especially when you are only going a few miles, we use a device called a "backpack".

14 posted on 06/17/2002 2:18:37 PM PDT by CapandBall
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
In the SNP the restriction for backcountry camping are strict. Specifically, unless in a designated area, you must camp at least 50 yards from any trail or water, and 100 yards from any road, and not be visible from the trail or road. Park police go out looking for people camping and breaking these rules, and handing out $$$ tickets for violations.

You must stealth camp or you will be ticketed.

15 posted on 06/17/2002 2:26:49 PM PDT by CapandBall
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
Your post is just the kind I hate. Picky, picky.

You post a pretentious "invitation" for "persons" to use a search engine and then have a hissy fit when people post information they find.

You are a consistently nasty poster who should learn some rudimentary rules of civility.

16 posted on 06/17/2002 2:33:55 PM PDT by M. Thatcher
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
You post incorrect "facts" in your story and then draw the conclusion that because of a lack of evidence to the contrary, they must have met up with Gary Condit or his minions in Luray or DC. Talk about "shooting at targets of opportunity"!
17 posted on 06/17/2002 2:34:54 PM PDT by drjimmy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: CapandBall
You are more Making than Disproving my point, for the official story would have it that their tent in violation of these rules, was right on top of the Skyland Lodge...and never found, never ticketed, even with dead bodies in it, for all of those days...

What is the chance of that? Why so many posts which pick at oversights or lapses of memory on the part of this poor old human being, but which do not invalidate my thesis...

... and none that would (if valid) actually prove they (1) ever camped; (2) were still camping after 5/24; (3) were lying dead for 5 or 6 days very near the Skyland Lodge, and (says the hook article) within sight of a dirt road and a horse trail?

The fact is, their friends strongly expected them the evening of 5/24 in Baltimore; the father of one was completely panicked by the morning of 5/27; and yet the official story is they were camped practically in the yard of the Skyland Lodge, but never made a phone call, never bought a meal or supplies, never appeared in public even on the trails or roads anywhere near there, for a week or so. Gimme a break.

18 posted on 06/17/2002 2:38:21 PM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: drjimmy
You seem to think that if I say Skyline instead of Skyland, it somehow invalidates my theory. I have never contended that Condit killed Winans and Williams; I have only said this murder looks a lot more similar to the Levy/ Mahoney/ Chiang/ Arkancide kind of political killing we have seen so much of...than to the pretty picture we have been given on the surface.

If I am wrong, I have once again entertained you for an evening by giving you somebody to shoot at.

I warned you that this was the bare-bones outline of the crime, that I was writing from memory, and that more detail is very available on search engines if anyone wants it. Those stories, BTW, however, tend to differ from each other as much as mine does from any one of them, so be forewarned!

20 posted on 06/17/2002 2:47:24 PM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
You are more Making than Disproving my point

I dont see how. The story was big news in this area when it happened. I am very involved with the hiking community and the Park and I have never heard anyone say they were camped "practically in the yard of the Skyland". They were 1/2 mile off the Applachian trail and secluded. As a matter of etiquette, hikers dont violate another campers space, so even if someone on a less traveled sidetrail or fire road saw a tent thru the brush they wouldnt approach.

21 posted on 06/17/2002 4:17:52 PM PDT by CapandBall
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: M. Thatcher
crystalk is not a nasty poster.
22 posted on 06/17/2002 9:44:13 PM PDT by dalebert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: CapandBall
this still does not make the case against the man charged with the murders any stronger. the case is still weak. this case could be linked to the coffee shop murder of another woman.
23 posted on 06/17/2002 9:49:58 PM PDT by dalebert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
I didn't point out your error in the name of the lodge. I was pointing out more substantive errors that go to the heart of your silly theory. You say there isn't evidence they EVER CAMPED IN THE PARK (you put this in capital letters), when there are numerous photos of them at various points on trails, that require hiking to get to, between May 19 and May 24. You say they extended their camping permit on May 24, when it was actually May 22. You say the father called park police on May 27, when it wasn't until May 30. You say their campsite was 200 yards from Skyland Lodge (practically in the yard, as you call it) , when it was 880 yards (a half-mile). You claim they were not "marvels of strength or physical stamina," when they were experienced backcountry hikers. And because of that, they knew how to make camp so as not to be seen by others.

As for the guy accused of the crime, you say there is no evidence he was in the park, or even in the state of Virginia, when the crimes were committed. Well, he was certainly in the park when the search for the missing women was taking place. As he says in his own words, "We went hiking like right in the middle of the search party." And you point out that the woman he was tried and convicted of assaulting (for some odd reason you put the word "assault" in quotation marks) was Canadian, as if the attack on her took place in Canada. It took place right in Shenandoah National Park, near Skyline Drive.

You seem to fall back on faulty memory as if that makes your misstatements of fact unimportant. Yet you use all this to make the claim that "this murder looks a lot more similar to the Levy/ Mahoney/ Chiang/ Arkancide kind of political killing we have seen so much of." Other than the fact that Williams and Winans were lesbians and so was Caitlin Mahoney, there is nothing, nada, zilch that makes these murders "similar." You might as well claim that the dog that killed the lesbian in California was secretly owned and trained by Gary Condit.
24 posted on 06/18/2002 6:51:41 AM PDT by drjimmy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
I have never heard of these murders before so I read your post with intrest. After reading your post twice I still could not understand what you were trying to connect. I read it again this morning, I still don't get it. Did condit or clinton have these girls rubbed out for political reasons? If not who are you accusing? Hillary? Where the girls only trying to appear as if they were camping while they went someplace else & did something? I love a good murder mystery but I need some help here if I am going to think it is anything more than a random killing.
25 posted on 06/18/2002 7:11:09 AM PDT by Ditter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dalebert
crystalk is not a nasty poster.

Actually, he is -- to all who dare disagree with him.

26 posted on 06/18/2002 7:16:54 AM PDT by M. Thatcher
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: M. Thatcher
Crystalk once refered to herself as a mother, in a post to me. She is usually nice but can be touchy (I can be too), I expect I have angered her by being rather dumb & questioning her. Right Crystalk?
27 posted on 06/18/2002 7:28:36 AM PDT by Ditter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Ditter
In part, I am calling attention to the fact that these resemble a whole list of political and possibly political killings from 1996 through Chandra Levy, which have in common their utter unsolvability and inexplicability by ordinary LE thinking and methods...the extreme caginess of media from the day one, the withdrawal, retraction, and changing of key facts and clues released to the public...

the long (6 yrs) period with no solution of the crime...

As in the Mahoney matter, this one too has a patsy being set up by the government, and I think Chandra has several patsies being looked at right now to decide which one to try to sell us.

Also in common: the crime is a real baffler, a real obsessor, if one looks at it. That also these all have in common.

Occams razor might suggest the women never camped at all, or did so only briefly for a day or two. Never seen, even en route to or from, their campsite. Car never seen. Motiveless double murder.

I have no idea just WHAT part of the secret govt wanted these dead, and maybe they WERE friends of Caity Mahoney as alleged by another poster.

But I think it bears some out-of-the-box thinking, since the in-the-boxers can never solve it.

And I do not like another patsy being charged with horrible crime he did not do. That is what they are about to spring on us in Chandra too IMHO.

28 posted on 06/18/2002 9:34:52 AM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
It kind of reminds me of Vince Foster too. It looks like Arkancide. And yes, I do believe it is connected to Caity Mahoney. Look at the unconsitutional way the FBI broke down a man completely to get a false coerced confession to her murder.

Treatment of Rice by Virginia is shameful, and that includes the 11-year sentence for the original crime against the Canadian woman. Two years would have been typical. Why eleven?

29 posted on 06/18/2002 9:41:15 AM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
What are the motives in these several cases-Caity,the lesbians and Chandra?
30 posted on 06/18/2002 9:44:39 AM PDT by John W
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: all
Girls never seen, perp never seen, involvement of Luray suggests a Condit connection, any relation to Mahoney suggests a Hillary/Arkancide connection.

We are being asked to swallow several impossibilities, and then think that Rice was in the park over the Mem. day weekend.

A full week later, June 1-2, he went up to the park riding along with a married couple who were friends of his. This was the day they were really tearing the place apart to find the bodies.

At 8 pm 6/1 they did find them, but that fact was not released until the evening of June 3. Rice and his friends were together the whole time they were up there, and in any event the bodies were several days old, the crime was not committed while he was up there, his visit came 5 days after they were killed, and at that point he had no criminal record.

The event with the Canadian woman came 14 months later, and incidentally the week after Caity Mahoney was killed.

His similarity to Guandique, who suddenly and inexplicably with no previous history, "assaulted" a woman or two in Rock Creek Park the week after Chandra was killed, screams out at me.

31 posted on 06/18/2002 9:51:38 AM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
I'd like to see you respond point-by-point to drjimmy's post 24. Until then, you're blowin' smoke.
32 posted on 06/18/2002 9:54:26 AM PDT by DemoSmear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
Former lovers who had become politically inconvenient and embarrassing?
33 posted on 06/18/2002 9:55:23 AM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: all
If they were attacked in the park, why did their dog not bark and alert them to the midnight approach of their killer? Why no struggle, they just each laid their asleep motionless while the throat of the other was being slashed, and the dog, an alert and noisy creature, did nothing?

I just do not buy it.

I am well aware that my own failings and weaknesses will be used to try to discredit the case I make, and I can only wish someone more flawless would have presented these questions, but just consider that the stones are now crying out. Look at the case, not at me, for crying out loud.

34 posted on 06/18/2002 10:00:59 AM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DemoSmear
I have studied that post (#24) carefully, and it makes no real points, except what had already been responded to about the camping permits. I stand on my story, the AMW story is probably mistaken, in part because its two-and-five reaches to the 26th, not the 27th as that story admits was their paid-to date, so my five-and-three adds to the required eight. Furthermore my 5-and-3 is taken from several published stories and I am standing by it.

Their friends say their plan was to come down from the Park on the 24th, which agrees with my five; and Mr Winans had also expected them to leave the park on that day, both are agreeing with my statement that five days was the original planned term.

The rest of his post is just a personal attack upon me.

35 posted on 06/18/2002 10:18:01 AM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: DemoSmear
What a screen name!

I also stand on the accuracy of my story based on several other published reports, though I am aware that still others do disagree and give some support to what is in post 24.

It is IMO particularly important to note that Mr Winans definitely did report this case missing oon th 27th, and the 880 yards is the distance from the paved, main road Skyline Drive to the body finding spot, not the distance to the Lodge which is much closer, say 220 yards.

36 posted on 06/18/2002 10:23:46 AM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
I guess what I am missing here is why you think these murders have a political link. What is the connection? I Have read that only a small # of murders all over the country are EVER solved. Were these women working in the gov? It happened within a couple of hours of DC but lots of people in the area are not in gov. Its an Arkancide because its strange & unsolved?
37 posted on 06/18/2002 11:57:03 AM PDT by Ditter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
If they were attacked in the park, why did their dog not bark and alert them to the midnight approach of their killer?
Has it been established it happened at midnight? Was their dog a poodle or rottwiller?

Why no struggle, they just each laid their asleep motionless while the throat of the other was being slashed, and the dog, an alert and noisy creature, did nothing?
They were bound and gagged.

38 posted on 06/18/2002 2:13:43 PM PDT by CapandBall
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: CapandBall
1. The story says it was a golden retriever.

2. Are you seriously suggesting the girls were bound and gagged? That would be virtually impossible to accomplish within the confines of a pup tent. (How could the perp bind and gag A without B interfering?) And the dog too? And right on top of the Lodge and the busiest area in the Park?

I had not seen that, but if it were true, it would virtually establish my theory, namely that the crime occurred elsewhere and the bodies were brought here. It would also demolish the idea of a lone perp slipping up on a backcountry campers-tent in the middle of the night!

You would have solved the case, and in just the way I would have expected!

[PS To hostile posters: At my age I no longer care what you call me, just so you call me crystalk!]

39 posted on 06/18/2002 3:55:00 PM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: aristeides; dalebert; Plummz; Sarah W
poster asserts these victims were bound and gagged. I do not recall that being stated in any of the 15-odd articles I have read over the past 2 years. Wd eliminate single-kook midnight-stalker-in-park theory.
40 posted on 06/18/2002 3:57:08 PM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ditter; kattracks;unknown freeper;brigette;the great satan;nautinurse;ET(end tyranny)...
whassup here? lesbians bound and gagged at Luray?
41 posted on 06/18/2002 4:08:16 PM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
Well you don't look that hard. They were bound and gagged, and while I don't think it is public knowlege, they were tied with the same plastic ties Darrel had in his pickup the day he was arrested.
42 posted on 06/18/2002 4:34:58 PM PDT by SarahW
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: SarahW
Those ties are everywhere. The fact they were bound and gagged changes the whole nature of the picture. Makes it unlikely a single perp slipped up in the dark, and was able to do all this in a tiny pup tent, with a dog watching his every move, and the other girl doing nothing to stop him?

Gimme a break.

43 posted on 06/18/2002 4:37:56 PM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: SarahW
OMG, with this campsite virtually AT the Lodge, and the dog there, this binding and gagging of two persons withIN a tiny tent, by one man slinking up on them in the middle of the night...the mind does just boggle.

That tends to prove my theory that the girls were brought here, already bound gagged throats cut--and dead.

Think about it, he would have had to crawl in there with them, what a tangle of arms and legs in the pitch dark. Yet he unfailingly managed to find just which parts of each to bind, gag, and cut throats, all with no appearance of a struggle, nothing to look disorderly, they were just lying neat as a pin each on her own separate sleeping bag and air matteress.

Gimme a break.

44 posted on 06/18/2002 5:23:48 PM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
:shaking head:
45 posted on 06/18/2002 6:02:18 PM PDT by SarahW
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
If their throats were cut in the tent, there would be lots of blood there. They could have been surprized while apart (nature breaks) & bound & gagged & put in the tent & then murdered there. Where was the blood?

Where did they work/live?
46 posted on 06/18/2002 6:25:49 PM PDT by Ditter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
I will take that break with you.Bloody cut throats will attract critters.
47 posted on 06/18/2002 6:50:20 PM PDT by dalebert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: crystalk
(How could the perp bind and gag A without B interfering?) And the dog too?

He said, "I'll get you and your little dog too!"

Give it a rest man, Daryl confessed to doing it while in jail. Is that not good enough for you?

48 posted on 06/18/2002 7:03:41 PM PDT by DemoSmear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: DemoSmear
Do you have a source for his having confessed?

If the amount of duress applied was anything like what was used on Covington and then, Cooper, in the Mahoney case, you could get any FReeper on the board to confess to the crime, me included. Whether they had ever been in Virginia, or not.

49 posted on 06/18/2002 7:44:21 PM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Ditter
I myself am not a great authority in the case, just a skeptic about patsy-type solutions.

IIRC those facts you request are very much included in several of the standard published stories of the case easily retrieved from search engines.

They had graduated at Smith, had been living in Vermont, were from Minnesota (Williams) and Maine (Winans) IIRC, and were in process of trying to move down to DC or Balto IIRC, but do try the search engines.

IIRC there was said to be but little blood in the tent.

50 posted on 06/18/2002 7:49:36 PM PDT by crystalk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-66 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson