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They Died for a Just and Honorable Cause. (Did They, Really?)
DreamScape ^ | 6/22/02 | Mom_Grandmother

Posted on 06/22/2002 1:28:14 PM PDT by Mom_Grandmother

The Mexicans,They Died for a Just and Honorable Cause.

(Did They, Really?)

I Seem to recall Americans saying the same thing about our men at the Alamo! But today I hear more talk about how damn brave the Mexicans are and how they are going to take this state and that state back. From everything I have been able to gather, we're going to let them have what the hell they want and the hell with the Alamo and it's Hero's. We have finally become the "Roll Over and Play Dead Nation" I don't feel like fighting if it does not involve me.

Those men stood their ground for what they believed was theirs and this great nations, they were tortured when captured, murdered, stripped and burned, and all we can do is sit by and watch their death become a "Cause for Nothing".

Maybe the Americans thought so then and there are still some of us today that think so, but to to watch and listen to the sorry state of affairs happening to our Southwest today, you'd never know that these brave men were once our "Hero's", we seem to have forgotten about them.

The Battle of the Alamo As Seen by the Mexicans

******************************************

The Traditional Version

Provisions were scanty, ammunition was scarce, and help was nowhere in sight when 185 Texans, barricaded inside an old mission, fought a 4,000-man Mexican army. During the 12 days of siege prior to the final battle, the gallant Americans reinforced the walls, dug trenches, and mounted their 18 cannon while being harassed around the clock by Mexican rifle and artillery fire and scouting parties.

"I feel confident that the determined valor and desperate courage heretofore evinced by my men will not fail them in the last struggle; and although they may be sacrificed to the vengeance of a Gothic enemy, the victory will cost so dear that it will be worse for him than defeat. God and Texas! Victory or death!" So ended the final plea for assistance from the Alamo’s commander, Col. William Travis.

After rejecting the Mexican demand for unconditional surrender, Travis assembled his men (including the legendary Jim Bowie and Davy Crockett) and offered them the choice of fighting to certain death or leaving the fort. All chose to stay except one man, who managed to escape through the tightening Mexican encirclement. No other defender would remain alive.

On March 6, 1836, the Mexican army, commanded by Gen. Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, attacked the fort from three sides. Twice the Texans repulsed them with bullets and cannon, but sheer numbers finally permitted the Mexicans to gain the walls and pour into the fort. The Texans, out of ammunition, used their rifle butts for clubs as they fought hand to hand. Those who survived the assault on the walls retreated slowly, desperately fighting from room to room in the barracks.

Although certain Mexican officers requested clemency for the last surviving Americans, Santa Anna ordered them massacred. Mexican soldiers tossed the Texans’ bodies on their bayonets as if they were bales of hay. As a final insult, the Mexicans stripped and burned the corpses.

Although outnumbered 20 to 1, the Alamo defenders indeed made Mexico pay a heavy price. At least 1,500 Mexicans were killed or wounded, and Santa Anna’s advance into Texas was delayed for two weeks, which gave Texas enough time to gather the army that defeated Mexico two months later. Thirteen months after the Alamo fell, Texas declared its independence from Mexico’s repressive, dictatorial rule, which not only had denied Texas such rights as statehood, trial by jury, public education, and religious freedom but also had proscribed slavery.

The Other Side

Mexico generously opened Texan lands to American settlers who, corrupted by their greed for land and the precious metals it contained, ignored the 1824 Mexican constitution which they had sworn to obey and took advantage of Mexico’s internal problems to revolt. The Texans demanded legalization of their despicable practice of slavery, formed unauthorized governing bodies that collected taxes but did not return any of this revenue to the state, continually demanded more and more land, and insisted on rights granted only to sovereign nations.

This bold infringement on the honor and property of Mexico could not be permitted. "The colonists established in Texas," declared a circular distributed by the minister of relations, "have recently given the most unequivocal evidence of the extremity to which perfidy, ingratitude, and the restless spirit that animates them can go, since -- forgetting what they owe to the supreme government of the nation which so generously admitted them to its bosom, gave them fertile lands to cultivate, and allowed them all the means to live in comfort and abundance -- they have risen against that same government, taking arms against it... [while] concealing their criminal purpose of dismembering the territory of the Republic."

General Santa Anna, who had taken control of the government three years earlier, declared that he would "strike in defense of the independence, honor, and rights of my nation." Fired with patriotism, he formed an army and gave this order: "The foreigners who are making war on the Mexican nation in violation of every rule of law are entitled to no consideration whatever, and in consequence no quarter is to be given them."

The enemy took refuge in the Alamo when they saw the Mexican army approaching. After a 12-day siege, four columns of soldiers and reserves quietly positioned themselves on four sides of the fort in the predawn darkness. They were thrust into battle by the ancient Spanish bugle call that signaled "fire and death."

The revolutionaries’ barrage of cannon and rifle fire stopped the initial charge and killed valiant officers and soldiers who had won the honor of being among the first to attack. When a second attempt was likewise repulsed, Santa Anna ordered in the reserves. Soon the army surged over the north wall, where wooden planking allowed a foothold, and overran the defenders.

As the Texans retreated to the barracks behind sandbag barriers and trenches. Mexican soldiers followed. Fierce fighting ensued, but the Americans fell quickly, especially when their cannon were turned against them. The wrath of the army abated only after all the foreigners were killed. The number of Mexicans lost in the battle was appalling, but they died for a just and honorable cause.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; Mexico; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; US: Colorado; US: New Mexico; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: alamo; america; davycrockett; godsgravesglyphs; mexico; sanantonio; secession; texas
Several professors at the University of New Mexico and a prominent local Hispanic activist were contacted for comment on UNM Professor Charles Truxillo's (a guest on Hannity & Colmbs just yesterday) concept for a new Hispanic nation called the Republic of the North. The professors were asked in particular about Truxillo's contention that U.S. states retain the right to secede. Truxillo said the states had that right under the Articles of Confederation of 1777, in which each state retained its own "sovereignty, freedom and independence." He said the Articles of Confederation were not superseded in that regard by the U.S. Constitution of 1787 and added that, although the North's victory settled the question of secession militarily, it was never resolved by court ruling.

"The bottom line: What's possible is what people want to be possible. If five states wanted to secede and the rest of the country wanted to let them go, it could happen." ( Daniel Feller, professor of history)

But Charles could very well be right. It could happen. There are any number of political scenarios that could make it happen. But it would take Mexican-Americans getting organized enough to do it. "I've studied lots of civilizations. The United States is just like any other empire. It's not going to live forever. Eventually it will break down because of stresses." (Juan Jose Peña, Hispanic activist and vice chairman of the Hispanic Roundtable)

The Republic of the North -- he predicts its creation as "an inevitability" -- would include all of the present U.S. states of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, plus southern Colorado." (Charles Truxillo, a professor of Chicano studies at the University of New Mexico,)

1 posted on 06/22/2002 1:28:14 PM PDT by Mom_Grandmother
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To: Mom_Grandmother
La Raza is pushing Aztlan and the GOP is aiding and abetting them by trading principle for Hispanic votes.
2 posted on 06/22/2002 1:34:30 PM PDT by Commander8
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To: Mom_Grandmother
"The bottom line: What's possible is what people want to be possible. If five states wanted to secede and the rest of the country wanted to let them go, it could happen."

and there's the rub,ain't gonna happen.

3 posted on 06/22/2002 1:35:16 PM PDT by mdittmar
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To: Mom_Grandmother
I had distant relatives fighting along side Sam Houston in the Texas War for Independence from Mexico.

I still have relatives in Texas and I don't think they'd take kindly to Mexicans, Latinos, Hispanics or whatever trying to take over.

4 posted on 06/22/2002 1:39:33 PM PDT by Militiaman7
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Mom_Grandmother
How far do they want to go back?

All of this land belonged to various Indian tribes before Mexico took it. And they never really controlled it.

And of course, the Spanish took it from the Mayans, the Inca's, the Olmecs, etc.

Tell you what, I'll consider giving this land back to the Indians who originally had it, if all people of Spanish descent get out of Mexico, Central American, and South America, and give it back to the indigenous tribes.

6 posted on 06/22/2002 1:43:33 PM PDT by chaosagent
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To: Mom_Grandmother
The Republic of the North -- he predicts its creation as "an inevitability" -- would include all of the present U.S. states of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, plus southern Colorado."

They'd better be ready for a fight. And they have already gotten a taste of what 184 Texans can do.

We'll just see how "inevitable" the "unification of Aztlan" will be. I, for one, will not stand idly by while backward racists ("La Raza" = "The Race") try to steal U.S. territory. They'll get no better than the Confederacy did, and probably much worse for good measure.

Imal

7 posted on 06/22/2002 1:43:35 PM PDT by Imal
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To: Mom_Grandmother
1. The Alamo defenders were orignally seeking to have Mexican constitution of 1824 restored after Dictator Santa Anna made up his own laws. The Mexican Government of the era lost a lot of supporters after the slaughter of the protestors in the Alamo and Golidad.

2. States right of sucession was considered pretty much moot by April 1865. Texas may have made a valid point for disassociation as it was part of the agreement when the COUNTRY of Texas joined the COUNTRY of the United States of American.

3. Any Mexican country carved out of US territory would probably end up being very much like the Mexican country run by Mexicans currently. Power would be held by a few rich families and 20-40 percent of the popualtion would have to go North to the next country to find employment. Imposition of the Mexican legal system, such as it is, on people used to the USA's legal system would have to be forced by an iron fist.

4. The best deal would be for the northern states of Mexico to form a confederation, hold a very brief 'The Mouse that Roared' system military action agaisnt the US, and wait for US aid to pour in.

8 posted on 06/22/2002 1:46:03 PM PDT by pikachu
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To: All
"Some seven men had survived the general carnage and... they were brought before Santa Anna. Among them... was the naturalist Davy Crockett... Santa Anna... ordered his execution... Though tortured before they were killed, these unfortunates died without complaining and without humiliating themselves before their torturers."
9 posted on 06/22/2002 1:47:05 PM PDT by Mom_Grandmother
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To: Commander8
And as the last election proved, the brilliant political pundits advising GWB, have done a poor trade, as the votes have not materialized. And never will.
10 posted on 06/22/2002 1:49:12 PM PDT by Paul Ross
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To: Mom_Grandmother
Always remember that the folks who lead these campaigns are following the Bareback Jackson shakedown model. They know it will never happen but figure there is noteriety in advocating the cause (sells books) and maybe someone will pay them to go across the street and rant in front of a competitors business.

The Mexicans were dumb to encourage Yankees to settle in the barren lands of Texas. The Mexicans assumed we'd be just like the mestizos (Mexican Indian, quasi-slaves) and be obedient in all things and that we could be handled. Sort of like the Indians in New England when the Pilgrims landed.

It is that same difference in culture that will ensure the Aztlan will never happen. The only hint of civilization that Mexico has today, comes from the outside, Spain, France and the US. Beyond a few Aztec place names and Indian racial traits, nothing remains of the native culture.

11 posted on 06/22/2002 1:50:17 PM PDT by Tacis
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To: Mom_Grandmother
There is no state of Southern Colorado. So much for Truxillo.
12 posted on 06/22/2002 1:50:49 PM PDT by Paul Ross
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To: Commander8
"The United States is just like any other empire. It's not going to live forever. Eventually it will break down because of stresses." (Juan Jose Peña, Hispanic activist and vice chairman of the Hispanic Roundtable)"

Over my dead body!

13 posted on 06/22/2002 1:52:49 PM PDT by PoppingSmoke
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To: pikachu
Bump. Keep the history going, the Mexico-Revisionists are just spiral-eyed whack jobs.
14 posted on 06/22/2002 1:53:02 PM PDT by Paul Ross
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To: Paul Ross
"There is no state of Southern Colorado. So much for Truxillo."

I watched the little Prick on Hannity & Colmbs last night, he's still a small turd floating around with even smaller turds.

15 posted on 06/22/2002 1:56:03 PM PDT by Mom_Grandmother
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To: chaosagent
re: "And of course, the Spanish took it from the Mayans, the Inca's, the Olmecs, etc."

You took the words out of my mouth. While reading that alternative "history" of the Alamo, it seemed to me that the surviving Mayas and Aztecs probably have an alternative history of the Spanish takeover of Mexico. If these clowns keep this up, it might be interesting if someone went to Mexico to seek out that alternative view ;).
16 posted on 06/22/2002 2:22:23 PM PDT by MamaSwami
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To: Mom_Grandmother
would include all of the present U.S. states of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, plus southern Colorado.

Well... could we maybe let them have California? Maybe not.

As for Texas...


Click to read the history of the Gonzales Flag

17 posted on 06/22/2002 2:56:04 PM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Mom_Grandmother
Mexico didn't even gain its independence of Spain till 1821, so their total period of control of Texas was 15 years. As others have pointed out, it was marginal even during this period, with the vast majority of the state unoccupied.

Hardly seems like this ephemeral occupancy has a better claim to legitimacy than over 150 years of Anglo-American control.

18 posted on 06/22/2002 3:00:03 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: mdittmar
Sorry folks, it is already happening. If President Bush does not close the borders and round them up, Texas will become such a cesspool, we will be happy to give it back.

I have seen what is happening to communities here. I have seen people in small towns, people living in fear and their property devalued because someone put in a trailer park for these illegals. Employment in small towns is a very precious and scarce commodity and when the balance of the economy is tipped for these people to come in and take over as the primary employees of a industry (I am speaking agribusiness), then others loose their jobs at the banks, schools, grocery stores, and government offices such as welfare, etc., because they are not hispanic.

But for all the bravado, I will not hold my breath for anyone to fight this. If we were going to fight it, we would be boycotting the industries that bring them here. President Bush and other politicians would be so concerned about 'our' votes, they would be sending these people home and getting them out of our communities and our lives. But we are doing nothing and that is exactly what we will continue to do until the government man comes ---

19 posted on 06/22/2002 3:24:20 PM PDT by nanny
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To: Mom_Grandmother
Remember mudbone's version?

"A hunnerd white boys kicked two thousan Mexicans in the ass at the Alamo. That's what kinda army they had."
20 posted on 06/23/2002 1:46:54 AM PDT by Twodees
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To: Mom_Grandmother; shuckmaster; Twodees; billbears; TomServo; sheltonmac; goodieD; the_right_way
I expect every "neo-Confederate" on FR to rally to the cause of "Aztlan" or "Republica de la Norte," and fight for "freedom" from the repressive, Yankee-dominated USA.
21 posted on 06/23/2002 7:54:45 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: the_right_way
So he's your hero, right?
22 posted on 06/23/2002 7:55:42 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: Illbay
As I have said from day one, if the citizens of a state vote for their representatives within the state's respective legislature, and if the majority of the elected legislature votes for secession from the union believing it to be a just cause and within the consent of the governed that they were elected for this exact purpose, then yes I agree that state should be allowed to leave the union just as Jefferson was ready to allow Massachusetts to leave the union peacefully and freely.

Unfortunately Illbay, the repressive and overreaching government first instituted by that worthless tyrant abe and carried on by men like Wilson, Roosevelt, and Johnson has allowed the federal government to become such an integral part of the states' in house matters that I feel it would be almost impossible to separate the two.

Hamilton and Clay would be proud. We've become a nation of one, instead of nation of separate and sovereign states, so dependent upon the general government that we look to them for everything. The only thing missing is the monarch Hamilton himself desired to have

23 posted on 06/23/2002 8:42:02 AM PDT by billbears
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To: Illbay
I expect every "neo-Confederate" on FR to rally to the cause of "Aztlan" or "Republica de la Norte," and fight for "freedom" from the repressive, Yankee-dominated USA.

Ha!

24 posted on 06/23/2002 9:01:36 AM PDT by Roscoe
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

Comment #26 Removed by Moderator


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Note: this topic is from 6/22/2002. Thanks Mom_Grandmother.

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27 posted on 06/13/2011 7:38:40 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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