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Environmentalists focus of fire prevention inquiry
The Arizona Republic Washington Bureau ^ | June 26, 2002 | Billy House

Posted on 06/26/2002 10:07:37 AM PDT by dittomom

Edited on 05/07/2004 5:20:58 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

WASHINGTON - As fires continue to ravage parts of eastern Arizona, Colorado and California, the U.S. Forest Service is conducting an internal study into how much environmentalists may be to blame.

Environmentalists said Tuesday that there's a recent government report addressing the issue and that it shows they aren't to blame for the wildfire crisis.


(Excerpt) Read more at azcentral.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; US: Colorado; US: Idaho; US: New Mexico
KEYWORDS: enviralists; sierraclub; usforestservice; wildfires
Meanwhile, Arizona, Colorado, California, Utah, still burn...
1 posted on 06/26/2002 10:07:37 AM PDT by dittomom
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To: Grampa Dave; Carry_Okie; sauropod; countrydummy; madfly; farmfriend
ping!
2 posted on 06/26/2002 10:11:31 AM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: dittomom
In many respects the USFS under Dombeck was complicit with the environmentalists when they rolled over and settled the suits and then paid the environmentalists' legal costs. I have read estimates that 40% of the USFS budget is for legal costs.
3 posted on 06/26/2002 10:13:44 AM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: Black Agnes; dittomom
ditto mom thanks for the article.

Where is our favorite Arizona Senator, McAinal? He sure is quite while parts of his state burn down. Of course he gets a lot of enviral votes and probably money since he is really just a Rat posing as a Rino.

Agnes, thanks for the ping!
4 posted on 06/26/2002 10:15:22 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: RooRoobird14
ping!
5 posted on 06/26/2002 10:17:06 AM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: dittomom
The ash of all the lost homes and dreams should be placed at the feet of the Sierra Club. The "Earth First" nutjobs need to pay for this disaster.
6 posted on 06/26/2002 10:19:16 AM PDT by CecilRhodesGhost
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To: dittomom
What do you have against NM? We're burning, just not as badly as the others.
7 posted on 06/26/2002 10:26:54 AM PDT by CedarDave
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To: dittomom
Environmentalists are one of the reasons this fire is at the zenith it is now. Their fight to protect natural habitat over the years have made fule conditions far beyond what mother nature would have ever allowed. You need to burn the old and thin what exists. It has always occured naturally until we decided that the earth needed to be run by our rules.
8 posted on 06/26/2002 10:27:49 AM PDT by westnews
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To: BOBTHENAILER; Carry_Okie
Bob, this is the latest.

Get to know Carry Okie. He is our expert re history of the enviralists, what they have done like with the forests, and what to do with them.
9 posted on 06/26/2002 10:29:54 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: CedarDave
Oops! Sorry, my bad. AND you're getting choked by all our smoke. Hope you can forgive me, neighbor!
10 posted on 06/26/2002 10:33:51 AM PDT by dittomom
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To: dittomom
Checkout this thread and links from last night:

Burned Out

In my response, I wrote:

The Sierra Club is fighting back with a release saying that logging is the problem not the solution (logging targets big trees, leaving small ones to burn), and saying they support clearing of brush. What they don't say is that after a fire, they take the FS to court to prevent salvage logging, which leaves dead trees to stand, be attacked by insects, fall and to become fuel for the next fire. That has been the history in NM after Los Alamos and southern NM fires in 2000 and 2001. To them any logging for any purpose is bad because roads will have be built to recover the wood, the FS may actually recover some of their costs, and jobs for the local community will be temporarily restored. Regarding the spotted owl and other wildlife they claim they are concerned about, their aren't any after a fire of this intensity.

11 posted on 06/26/2002 10:34:13 AM PDT by CedarDave
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To: Grampa Dave; Carry_Okie; *Enviralists; dittomom; CedarDave
"analysis paralysis"

Well now, maybe Secretary Norton just gave us a rallying cry...
12 posted on 06/26/2002 10:34:29 AM PDT by HiJinx
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To: CedarDave
In order to protect its telescopes at Mount Graham (which are funded by a consortium of universities), the University of Arizona wants to clear about 80 acres of trees and scrub around the site. The sensible action, which would clear less than 1/10 of a square mile is opposed by environmentalists and their lawyers who have threatened to sue. They are the same group of environmental fanatics who held up the positioning of telescopes for more than a year because of the presence of the endangered Mt. Graham squirrel. The very wily varmint has managed to survive quite well, telescopes and all.
13 posted on 06/26/2002 10:34:53 AM PDT by gaspar
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To: Grampa Dave
McPain is busy putting out CFR fires in Washington...

Here's an article from Arizona's other Senator...

KYL:Environmental activists place forests at risk

14 posted on 06/26/2002 10:38:08 AM PDT by dittomom
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To: dittomom
"They're hoping they can point their finger at us and other environmentalists," Cosgrove said.

That's not what I'd like to point at you ya fargin' ignorant fascist nutball looney arsehole.

FMCDH (now 9 miles away from the Missionary Ridge & Valley FIRES!)

15 posted on 06/26/2002 10:41:30 AM PDT by nothingnew
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To: dittomom; CedarDave; Grampa Dave; Carry_Okie
Meanwhile, Arizona, Colorado, California, Utah, New Mexico still burn...

2,500,000 pristine acres and counting. Whose state is next? When will the Sierra Club, et al, be truly held accountable?

This is an issue which can explode in the face of the Dem/enviro mafia.

Thanks for the ping, gramps. Carrry, gramps says I need to get to know you. Hi, how are you? Can I freepmail you for enviro info?

16 posted on 06/26/2002 10:43:09 AM PDT by BOBTHENAILER
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To: BOBTHENAILER; Brad's Gramma; Angelique
Latest Update from www.azcentral.com...

For the first time since the first of the two fires that merged began last Tuesday, a portion of the fire was deemed "contained." That number stands at 5 percent Wednesday morning. About 405,000 acres have burned.

"We're on the scoreboard," said fire spokesman Jim Paxon. "We haven't been there for eight days. We're making some progress."

The containment was in the area of Clay Springs, Linden and Pinedale, among the communities hardest hit by the fire.


17 posted on 06/26/2002 10:47:16 AM PDT by dittomom
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To: dittomom
Oh the soundbites a public hearing could produce......
18 posted on 06/26/2002 10:49:01 AM PDT by TomB
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To: dittomom
We're used to being the "missing" state. :)
19 posted on 06/26/2002 10:49:31 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: BOBTHENAILER
Yep. You can also check out my website and email me from there.
20 posted on 06/26/2002 10:53:42 AM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: TomB
Oh the soundbites a public hearing could produce......

You're not kidding. Check out this letter to the editor in today's Arizona Republic...

Where are the Sierra Club and all their tree-hugging friends who preach about keeping our forests cluttered with debris, so when we have a fire there will be plenty of fuel?

Why aren't they here, fighting this fire that is destroying our beautiful state?

I would strongly suggest anyone who has stickers from the Sierra Club or other such group on their vehicles remove them, because I don't think they are going to be well received in Arizona or Colorado or any state in the West (other than maybe California) for a very long time, if ever. -Charles E. Leitner
Fort Thomas


21 posted on 06/26/2002 10:55:34 AM PDT by dittomom
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To: HiJinx
Sounds like Secretary Norton is about to go collect some scalps from Club Sierrians who hate people and set up tinder box scenarios.

Maybe she should take GW's chain saw with her. It makes the scalping jobs a little faster. I volunteer to go keep the saw filled with gasoline and change the chains when they get dull.

Enviral whackos have zero problem in killing us to advance their agendas. That is the reality not their warm and fuzzy PR/PC Image.
22 posted on 06/26/2002 10:59:43 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: dittomom
McAinal is your typical elite rat posing as a rino. He can't be bothered with going to Arizonia to kick the Forest Service and Sierra Club around to help get these fires out.

He is screwing around with his legacy, FCR. That legacy will bite him just like the Bent One's legacy in the middle east and of course his 9/11 legacy to America.
23 posted on 06/26/2002 11:02:44 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: dittomom
Also Tuesday, Norton, Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman and Labor Secretary Elaine Chao announced creation of a fire apprentice training program.

Is this new Fire Apprentice Training Program one that inducts environmentalists to don firesuits and put out forest fires? Or does it identify the houses and apartments of environmental lobby contributors and mandates that a billion unlit matchheads be put inside of the home?

The new program is to provide a pool of firefighters and fire managers to meet future demands.

Darn.

24 posted on 06/26/2002 11:07:51 AM PDT by Frohickey
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To: dittomom
Good timing. I was just now ranting about the tree huggers and bunny huggers.
25 posted on 06/26/2002 11:13:33 AM PDT by Redcloak
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To: Grampa Dave
You mean this chain saw?

Useful for many tasks!!

26 posted on 06/26/2002 11:16:03 AM PDT by CedarDave
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To: westnews
. Their fight to protect natural habitat over the years have made fule conditions far beyond what mother nature would have ever allowed.

Maybe someone should show the Environmentalist this picture of the Montana Fire in 2000


27 posted on 06/26/2002 11:20:06 AM PDT by Mo1
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To: nothingnew
Is she a neighbor of yours?


Kristin Dumas tries to calm her horse so she can load it on a trailer to be evacuated as a new wildfire roars in the distance Tuesday, June 25, 2002. The fire started a couple miles west of the Missionary Ridge fire north of Durango, Colo. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel)

28 posted on 06/26/2002 11:27:27 AM PDT by CedarDave
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To: Carry_Okie; Grampa Dave
I have read estimates that 40% of the USFS budget is for legal costs.

I have too. When liberals want something, they don't argue and debate. They make demands.

What do you think about adopting their tactics? Freep the Sierra Club and demand they agree to a one year moratorium on lawsuits against the USFS. Make the point that our taxes must be used for the next year to prevent forest fires. Tell the media about the demand and insist that the USFS be allowed to do their job and not spend its time in court.

One year is reasonable. The public will buy that. The USFS should welcome the encouragement and everyone likes to see lawyers out of work.

29 posted on 06/26/2002 11:27:42 AM PDT by LarryLied
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To: LarryLied
You are asking a rational question that demands a long answer for which I don't have time right now. Here's a shortie:
  1. Get Bush to rescind Clinton EO-12986. That ends the protection of both agencies and NGOs from civil liability through their membership in the IUCN.
  2. The States should decare a fuel emergency along the lines of New Mexico's SB-1. Legislation stating that the fuel is due to negligence makes the Feds liable because the fires are not an Act of God.
  3. The homewoners would then be able to sue both the RICOnuts and the Feds and assess punative damages for their obvious cocollusion and possible fraud representing profit interests.
Would I ever like to see Ashcroft appoint a few US Attorneys with the stones to go after these thugs.
30 posted on 06/26/2002 11:46:38 AM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: CedarDave
Is she a neighbor of yours?

I know where she is (or was)...I met Kristinn at "The Cowboy Easter Service" at which a fine friend (who has set this service up for 10 years) and I played guitars and sang at the service....all and all a fine service for us wayward cowboys...a good time was had by all.

FMCDH

31 posted on 06/26/2002 12:06:27 PM PDT by nothingnew
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To: dittomom
bttt
32 posted on 06/26/2002 12:12:48 PM PDT by swheats
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To: dittomom
And, how many deaths have been caused by the Sierra Club?
33 posted on 06/26/2002 12:40:19 PM PDT by joyce11111
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To: HiJinx
Well now, maybe Secretary Norton just gave us a rallying cry...

A big round of applause for that Colorado gal, Sec. Norton! I predict we're all going to be hearing alot more from her. She's not going to sit back and watch her state burn and not have any input.

34 posted on 06/26/2002 12:53:21 PM PDT by moondoggie
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To: joyce11111; BOBTHENAILER; CedarDave
Joyce, do you still have the references re the three young fire fighters killed last year in Washington due to one of these tinder box situations. Then the final fatal insult, the helicopter couldn't scoop up water from a nearby creek because of some Sacred Druid trout/salmon.

So those 3 young fire fighters were murdered by the agendas/actions of enviralists, and their card carrying forestry people who enable the fire to snuff out the lives of these 3 young people.

Smoke jumpers are now jumping in to fight fires that should have been fought by groundies. The roads were closed, so the groundies could not get there with their equipment, so the past 5 years, smoke jumpers are being dropped into areas that 10 years, you could have driven to fight the fires.
35 posted on 06/26/2002 12:59:03 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: LarryLied; Carry_Okie
Carry has the full data on this. The Club Sierras and other Druid religions posing as enviralist organizations get a large part of their yearly operating income from these law suits where they sue the federal government.

Then the Clowns in the 9th Circus Court of Clowns, posing as judges, fine the feds big time and we have to pay as large sums go to Club Sierra and other Druid religions posing as good people for nature. Then they go after small farm and land owners to sue to get more money.

Like all socialist/communist rat organizations, they will never give back any funding or stop it for a year or so, until you take a legal ball bat to their heads and knee caps.

Many of the smaller enviral Nazi charities in Oregon are hurting for donations. Their survial depends on the yearly flow of fed monies to them like for ponied up studies on lynxes that weren't there. If they had to give up the fed money for a year, they would be like illegal aliens suddenly not having any welfare.
36 posted on 06/26/2002 1:11:05 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: HarryDunne
ping
37 posted on 06/26/2002 1:39:56 PM PDT by Democratic_Machiavelli
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To: Grampa Dave; Carry_Okie
I was thinking more of a call for a moratorium on lawsuits as a PR stunt to enlighten those who are not paying attention. Don't expect the environmental crazies to agree but it makes them look unreasonable to those who don't have a clue about how fanatic they are. Then they have a more difficult time when the political and legal action needed to shut them down is going on.

Liberals always attack in depth and on all fronts. We should too.

38 posted on 06/26/2002 2:08:59 PM PDT by LarryLied
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To: LarryLied
Since their funding depends on those lawsuits, they will never declare a moratorium on the law suits.
39 posted on 06/26/2002 2:16:10 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: CedarDave
BUMP and a comment: Looking at the picture I posted, notice the second guy from the right. Thumbs Up!!

Unlike X-42, W no doubt knows how to use one of these things! (Remember brush clearing on the Crawford ranch last year)

40 posted on 06/26/2002 2:19:18 PM PDT by CedarDave
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To: Grampa Dave
they will never declare a moratorium on the law suits.

I know. But demanding they stop for just one year exposes them to those in the public who don't know they live off lawsuits and don't know how fanatic they are.

Demanding they stop puts them on the defensive. Let them explain why for one year they can't stay out of court. Let them explain why they don't use elections to get their policies enacted.

They lose that debate even if they win.

The left does this to us all the time.

Besides, it gives freepers something to do. The bickering dies down when freepers are busy freeping, calling and emailing.

41 posted on 06/26/2002 2:26:48 PM PDT by LarryLied
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To: LarryLied
Go ahead, but I won't go down that track. I know too many of them and how their entire elite life style depends on that money coming in monthly, quarterly and yearly from these lawsuits.
42 posted on 06/26/2002 2:29:27 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
Here is my website

http://groups.msn.com/WildLand firefighters
43 posted on 06/26/2002 3:03:42 PM PDT by joyce11111
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To: Grampa Dave; snopercod; sasquatch
I have a new feature on the website. I have put up the Endnotes for reference purposes. You can find your way around pretty fast with a simple Ctrl+F.

Here is the reference to EO-12986. I know it opens a new window, but I haven't figured out how to put it into its parent frame with the navigation buttons to the site and still have it go to the applicable link (bad marketing that).

44 posted on 06/26/2002 11:19:36 PM PDT by Carry_Okie
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