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Truth Under Fire [Libs Lie Again on Forest Fires]
Wall St. Journal ^ | July 11, 2002 | Editorial

Posted on 07/11/2002 1:28:56 AM PDT by The Raven

Edited on 04/22/2004 11:46:46 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Last month, environmental groups across the country hollered like banshees when politicians and local communities began taking them to task for the massive wildfires that are today gutting the West. The crescendo came when Arizona's Gov. Jane Dee Hull, watching half a million acres of her state go up in smoke, flatly blamed greenies for obstructing work to clean up national forests. She was talking about the never-ending stream of appeals and lawsuits they file to halt thinning, road building and firebreaks.


(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; US: Colorado; US: Idaho; US: Montana; US: Nevada; US: New Mexico; US: Oregon; US: Utah; US: Washington; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: agenda21; bahr; bahrsandy; biodiversity; biological; clubsierra; diversity; enviralists; envirolitigants; environment; gao; landgrab; litigantsenviro; ruralcleansing; sierra; sierraclub; society; usforestservice; wilderness; wildernesssociety
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The environmentalist were trying to save a tree here.....a spotted owl there.....and WHOOSH....

Another lesson unheeded by the control freak, statists.

1 posted on 07/11/2002 1:28:57 AM PDT by The Raven
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To: The Raven
BTTT Nice to see them get it once in awhile.
2 posted on 07/11/2002 2:45:15 AM PDT by brat
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To: The Raven
My new approach to enviro-whackos:I am a christian, God created the Earth, animals, the moon, and stars for the delight of mankind. The various envirowhacko groups deny God when saying animals have as much rights as man. All envirowackos are blasphemers.
3 posted on 07/11/2002 4:36:20 AM PDT by exnavy
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To: brat
>>Nice to see them get it once in awhile.

Nicer to see them admit it once in a while

4 posted on 07/11/2002 4:40:09 AM PDT by The Raven
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To: The Raven
The watermelons aren't trying to save anything. They are power hungry communists who want to consign humans to concentrated urban areas, kind of mega-scale concentration camps. Agenda 21, from our friends at the UN, clearly spells out a desire to declare 50% of the land area of the USA as wilderness and another substantial piece of the country as corridors with limited human use. This is not tin foil hat material. It is real and they are progressing nicely.
5 posted on 07/11/2002 4:52:03 AM PDT by Movemout
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To: farmfriend; SierraWasp; Angelique
Ping!
6 posted on 07/11/2002 4:54:19 AM PDT by Movemout
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To: Movemout
Indeed, you have hit the nail on the head. Bumper stickers in the Sierras say "Sierra Club Go Home!". That is because the Sierra Club's main office is not in the Sierras, but (big suprise), San Francisco.

The green in the greens is money green not forest green.
7 posted on 07/11/2002 5:56:57 AM PDT by American in Israel
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To: The Raven; Grampa Dave; BOBTHENAILER; madfly
Thanks for posting. It's a great article and shows the deceit by these groups. Added western states to topics. PING to others listed above. Please pass the word (lots of work to do today -- no time for me to ping others).

(BTW, if anyone has a Ping list already made up, please FReepmail it to me. As you know, the To: heading only allows for seven or eight names.)

8 posted on 07/11/2002 6:35:48 AM PDT by CedarDave
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To: Movemout
CORRECT! To the glee of the United Nations.
9 posted on 07/11/2002 7:31:55 AM PDT by B4Ranch
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To: The Raven; CedarDave; BOBTHENAILER; Ernest_at_the_Beach; farmfriend; madfly; countrydummy; ...
Raven, thanks for posting this WSJ article, and Cedar Dave thanks for the ping: Here is the real story with some data that some of you may not know about:

In a three-page letter sent this week to Congress, Barry Hill, the director of natural resources and the environment at the GAO, set the record straight. He delicately explained the methodology used to count up appeals and litigation. The details are dense, but the message was clear: The GAO didn't have the whole story.

His letter just happens to coincide with a new Forest Service report with the correct numbers. And guess what? It turns out nearly half (48%) of all the Service's plans for getting rid of hazardous fuels were appealed by outside groups. In the Northern Region, one of nine the Service administers, every single one of its projects for fiscal year 2001-02 -- 53 in total -- was appealed. Other regions saw anywhere from 67% to 79% of their plans put on hold through appeals.

But here's the real kicker: The Forest Service report also names those groups that launch the most appeals. Surprise, surprise, they include the Sierra Club, the Center for Biological Diversity, the Wilderness Society and others -- the very same folks who held up the (obviously) incorrect GAO report and claimed it was true. "These numbers are . . . a harsh reminder of just how relentlessly ideological some environmental litigants have become," said Rep. Scott McInnis (R., Colo.).

That comment just about sums it up. For years, radical environmentalists have twisted and fabricated facts in their desire to keep humans out of the forests. Most of the time, they get away with it. This time, they've been caught with their loincloths down. -----------------------------------------------------------

Now for a reality break re the GAO.

The director of the GAO is a liberal RINO appointed by the Bent One. The GAO director was a chief partner of Arthur Andersen before he became director of the GAO. He is more interested in investigating Enron then what his charter is. That is to protect us!

This Rino Creep is probably an enviral card carrying creep like most of the Clintoon appointments. Expect nothing of value from him re really inspecting what has been done.

The first report, the one that carried the lies of Club Sierra is typical of his left wingers carried over from the Bent One's term.

When one is a left wing Rino, was a senior partner of Arthur Andersen and appointed by the Clintoon, nothing is beyond his ability to lie, falsify data and try to cover the butts of the criminal enviral whackos.

10 posted on 07/11/2002 8:04:47 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: freefly; Carry_Okie; .30Carbine; 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; Ace2U; Alas; alphadog; amom; ...
ping
11 posted on 07/11/2002 8:15:05 AM PDT by madfly
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To: ME4W
ping
12 posted on 07/11/2002 8:15:54 AM PDT by madfly
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To: Grampa Dave; The Raven; sauropod; AuntB; folklore
Grandpa, thanks for the bump and all the other wonderful information! I wish that rural area newspapers would report this type of news for those that don't have computers and can really read the real stories and the truth when someone finally has the guts to tell it! Most rural folks never read the Washington Post or the WSJ.

Raven, thanks so much for the post.

13 posted on 07/11/2002 8:34:27 AM PDT by countrydummy
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To: Grampa Dave
Good post Dave.
14 posted on 07/11/2002 8:35:12 AM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: madfly
BTTT!!!!!
15 posted on 07/11/2002 8:45:09 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: CedarDave; Grampa Dave; raven
This time, they've been caught with their loincloths down.

Hope they didn't deposit anything in the forest, while their loincloths were down. Actually, I like that line, should be followed by: Playboy's burning hot next issue will feature "Women of the Sierra Club".

Lays bare far more than any forest fire will.

Thanks for a wonderful post and the pings.

16 posted on 07/11/2002 8:57:18 AM PDT by BOBTHENAILER
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To: Carry_Okie; ernest; seamole; Shermy; backhoe
Thanks are you working with Ernest, Seamole, Shermy, back hoe and some of the great FR indexers to categorize and index stuff like this.

I think that if these gentlemen and some of the other great Freeper indexers helped you, in a few months we could have an incredible data base re the enviral scumbags we know about and those hidden in the system. Then a good researcher like you can start to really connect the dots.

We probably have at least 100 Freepers who are monitoring local, regional and national news sources. The data that they find and post will make an incredible data base.

Cooler today in the Wine Country. I hope it is cooler where you are.
17 posted on 07/11/2002 9:01:40 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: exnavy
Yeah, the enviral nazis have omitted who has dominion over whom as noted in the Bible.

Good Stewardship does not mean making a tree, a spotted owl, a red legged frog, a pile of brush in a forest, or any creature or plant more important than Man!

Their Druid religion is anti humans and anti bible.
18 posted on 07/11/2002 9:06:01 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
....radical enviros have twisted and fabricated facts in their desire to keep humans out of the forests. .....
This time, they've been caught with their loincloths down....

If that isn't the most revolting biological scenario........tree-huggers with their fig leaves at half-staff, I mean.

19 posted on 07/11/2002 9:13:27 AM PDT by Liz
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To: *Enviralists
Index Bump
20 posted on 07/11/2002 9:22:47 AM PDT by Free the USA
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To: Liz
If that isn't the most revolting biological scenario........tree-huggers with their fig leaves at half-staff, I mean.

Do you mean this revolting biological scenario:

RABID ENVIRAL WORSHIPPERS OF GRAY DAVIS TRYING TO COOL DOWN CALIFORNIA!

21 posted on 07/11/2002 9:24:03 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: countrydummy
At least we have this capability re the data. Then it is up to people like you to get the word out.

Go buy a few WSJ's and make sure that reasonable people get copies. Then, you can add my comments re the RINO GAO director. Then ask that they make copies and give them to their friends. If you just convert one former I don't care person per week, that is a huge victory for our side.
22 posted on 07/11/2002 9:28:21 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: BOBTHENAILER
Isn't humor great in dealing with these totally humorless enviral whackos. A slap of reality with some humor drives them into a pyschotic depression. They have been the good guys since the Days of Jimmy Carter. It is time for Americans to see them as the clowns and real dangers clowns they are.
23 posted on 07/11/2002 9:31:15 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
Hello Dave... I do believe that the word is getting out and spreading, via the 'net and talk radio, and that more and more ordinary citizens are starting to see through the "Club Sierra" elites with their anti- ( what? business? jobs? development? growth? American? ) whatever agendas.

No one wants dirty air or poisoned water, or despoiled forests- but compromises make sense. Use, rather than abuse.

I am years removed from it, but when I was younger I was an avid hunter, fisherman, and general outdoorsman, and I love the woods and water. But I do think we are stewards of these things, which means using them prudently- not setting them so far aside that no one ever sets foot in the wild.

24 posted on 07/11/2002 9:35:10 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: Grampa Dave
Thanks for the support!
25 posted on 07/11/2002 9:39:37 AM PDT by exnavy
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To: backhoe
Your response is so excellent and full of common sense, I will just repost it!

I do believe that the word is getting out and spreading, via the 'net and talk radio, and that more and more ordinary citizens are starting to see through the "Club Sierra" elites with their anti- ( what? business? jobs? development? growth? American? ) whatever agendas.

No one wants dirty air or poisoned water, or despoiled forests- but compromises make sense. Use, rather than abuse.

I am years removed from it, but when I was younger I was an avid hunter, fisherman, and general outdoorsman, and I love the woods and water. But I do think we are stewards of these things, which means using them prudently- not setting them so far aside that no one ever sets foot in the wild.

Amen! Good stewardship does not mean that we have to create Druid Edens/Cathedrals all over America and keep people out of these new Druid Edens/Cathedrals. There are ways to use, utilize them, enjoy them and make them part of our lives not the total focus of our lives like with the enviral nazis from hell.

26 posted on 07/11/2002 9:41:38 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
Dunno Gramps, those two third row fourth from left, don't look to me like they're staging a (ahem) "protest."
27 posted on 07/11/2002 9:45:59 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz
You mean the ones with the glassy eyes?
28 posted on 07/11/2002 9:47:47 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: exnavy
exnavy Christian conservatives are easy to support by this exnavy Christian conservative.
29 posted on 07/11/2002 9:49:36 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: American in Israel
The green in the greens is money green not forest green.

Where do they get the money from? (I suspect some of it is taxpayer money, but don't know for sure.)

30 posted on 07/11/2002 9:57:51 AM PDT by CWRWinger
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To: CWRWinger; Grampa Dave
Dave, thanks... regarding this?

Where do they get the money from?

That's the real question- follow the money, you'll find the people behind this stuff.
If we still had real investigative reporters- instead of these hand-pointing bird-brains who hector the President at every news conference- they would look into the finances. I suspect a lot of chicanery, grants, kickbacks, and general double-dealing is supplying the green groups with lots of money.

31 posted on 07/11/2002 10:09:15 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: Grampa Dave
Interesting home page you've got there, Gramps. My fishing buddy is my nine year old son. I also have an 18 yr old daughter and a 15 year old daughter. I am a conservative for my children. A christian for myself, and a servent of God because He commands me to be obediant. Liberals make me sick, third party promoters are misinformed, misdirected, and miss the point most of the time! Thanks for serving, I was starting 2nd grade as you started boot camp! I served from Jan. '75 to Jan. '81, I saw the Iranian hostage crisis up close and personnal. One of the first in the all volunteer Navy.
32 posted on 07/11/2002 10:10:19 AM PDT by exnavy
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To: exnavy
Go Navy! I'm glad that I didn't serve under Jimmy Carter. I might be in some Navy Brig now, for what I might have said about him. Thanks for you being there. We still needed good people to uphold the traditions and pass on the skills.


33 posted on 07/11/2002 10:23:17 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: backhoe
We will never seen any real investigation of the envirals by the major fishwraps like the NYSlimes, DC Compost, LA Slimes, SF Gayrhonicle. They are in bed 24/7 with the enviral movement and in particuliar the NY Slimes.

It will be up to the business and non mainline media to investigate the realities of the Club Sierrians and their ilk.

I firmly believe that the good people on Free Republic will play a big role in identifying the truth of the Envirals, exposing it here on FR and then helping to get the word out!

The level of increased knowledge of the envirals on FR grows each day. We must have the patience to work each day on a one to one basis to inform our fellow freepers, family members, friends and people in our community what we discover here each day.
34 posted on 07/11/2002 10:30:35 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
Yup, them's the two. Looks like they're really enjoying the....uh....."protest."
35 posted on 07/11/2002 10:37:19 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Grampa Dave
I think you are right... BTW, this just in:

A Burning Desire, A Critique of the Sierra Club Public Lands Fire Management Policy (1999)

36 posted on 07/11/2002 10:39:03 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: Liz
They do look like they are having a good time at the protest/"Lay In!"
37 posted on 07/11/2002 10:46:16 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
They do look like they are having a good time at the protest/"Lay In!"

Protest? Hah. These nekkid chumps fool no one. They sure ain't hugging trees......as any fool can plainly see.

38 posted on 07/11/2002 11:37:47 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz
As usual we leave certain interpretations to Liz for her honest analysis of the situation/situations including tree hugging or other hugging!
39 posted on 07/11/2002 11:46:12 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: B4Ranch
CORRECT! To the glee of the United Nations

The chumps actually believe that we are going to roll over and let them send in the blue helmets to help us administrate the heritage rivers and the UN declared wilderness/biodiversity areas. But first they need us to turn in our firearms. I wonder why they think that? :)

40 posted on 07/11/2002 12:05:24 PM PDT by Movemout
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To: The Raven

Nicer to see them admit it once in a while

Not only is it in their eyes a sign of weakness to admit their own errors, it is to demonstrate a demarcation point wherein an observer can delineate that the person does in fact have honor and integrity to act honestly.

The importance of that is overwhelming. Once a person has shown that degree of maturity -- that degree of honesty and integrity -- it is expected that they will continue to demonstrate a similar high degree of that character trait.

Thus, it is not a one time event of showing weakness they most fear, rather, it is an ongoing condition of honest charter development that they fear the observer will hold them to.

You see, they know how often they intentionally deceive and to demonstrate the honest character of freely admitting one's own error would thwart their future deceptions. ...They would be called to the matt -- their feet held to the fire -- to again demonstrate mature character development to acknowledge/admit their error. For the alternative is far more destabilizing to their authority (which is really just their self-proclaimed authority). That would be for them to defend their argument, to defend an argument that is indefensible. So they avoid at all cost demonstrating a mature character trait that the vast majority of adults take for granted in themselves.

Also, a person over time can admit to only so many errors before they become discredited. Admitting errors and position oneself  as "everyone makes errors" only goes as far as people make a few errors, not several errors in their field of expertise. So that can't take that route either.

In effect, they chose to pigeon hole themselves into continued irrationality that leads to deceptions and dishonesty. All in effort to support their "authority" status. Which again is merely their self-proclaimed authority status.

Bottom line, they have sullen self-esteem and envy others that have earned their self-esteem based on rational, honest and mature charter development. Those positive charter traits are the properties of the value creator -- the workers of the world that create the goods and services that increase the well-being, health and prosperity of self, others and society. They hold real and valid power. They create the sustenance for enhancing human life. They are the envy of self-proclaimed authorities.

The above identifications are wider in scope than to include just bogus environmentalist. It encompasses all self-proclaimed authorities and especially politicians and bureaucrats with their supporting/complicit media and academia "authorities".

Thank you. I needed a "sounding board" to collect my thoughts in forming a somewhat complex psychological structure to deliver a coherent message deconstructing an unfortunate and unnecessary everyday occurrence -- self-proclaimed authorities harming or destroying honest value creators and their work.

41 posted on 07/11/2002 12:31:14 PM PDT by Zon
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To: Movemout
Well, they will have US troops wearing those Blue Helmets so 99% of America will accept it. Nothing will be said about the truth on TV, so it must be okay, huh Mommy?
42 posted on 07/11/2002 2:28:27 PM PDT by B4Ranch
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To: B4Ranch
Well, they will have US troops wearing those Blue Helmets so 99% of America will accept it.

I hope you're wrong. If you're right we are in deep kimchee.

43 posted on 07/11/2002 2:34:52 PM PDT by Movemout
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To: BOBTHENAILER
Actually, I like that line, should be followed by: Playboy's burning hot next issue will feature "Women of the Sierra Club".

Think I'll skip that Playboy issue. I don't like my women with hair on their legs and under their arms!

44 posted on 07/11/2002 2:39:12 PM PDT by CedarDave
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To: Movemout
When I start to think of all the Americans that work under the UN control now without realizing it, I get frustrated. Actually pissed off. The ignorance that abounds in America regarding the United Nations today is a common as dog fleas.

Our entire National Park Dept. works under UN guidlines. Agenda 21 is a UN guidline. Bio-diversity is a UN guided program. Any program with the name Heritage in it is UN guided. Our US Forestry Service is working under UN guidlines. Our INS is following UN guidlines. The Army Corp of Engineers has been following their guidlines for so long I can't stand it. EPA, ESA are both agencies strictly following UN rules.

Just look at the different Agencies or Departments in your own local community and I'll bet 3/4 of the employees are working under UN guidlines and DON'T EVEN KNOW IT!

If they were all required to wear a UN patch, I'll bet it would be 250,000 people.

45 posted on 07/11/2002 2:52:28 PM PDT by B4Ranch
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To: madfly
bump
46 posted on 07/11/2002 8:57:44 PM PDT by mafree
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To: CWRWinger
==Where do they get the money from?

The most obvious is donations. Save the whales, save the trees, save the water, save the three toed toadies... It is a billion dollar industry. The not so under the table blackmail, aka "jackson outrage for sale" is far too present. Many cases of "do this for us (give us this land, make this park, pass this law) and we will drop the protest" is in evidence. Look into how land wealthy the Sierra Club is.

If they were held accountable for the damages they cause directly with lawsuits they do not carry through, clear harassment cases, they would be bankrupt in no time and would have to find a different way.

I personally have no problem with a suit they carry through to the end, it is all the launch and leave suits that are using the court delay time to obstruct instead of debate the issues. To use the stays as a targeted destruction of an environmental report is not the intention or meaning of the right to sue, and is in fact a clear indication of the hypocrisy of the left in its own distain of the environmental reports forced on business at their hands.

Accountability is what they demand of others, and avoid at all costs on themselves.
47 posted on 07/11/2002 9:37:59 PM PDT by American in Israel
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To: The Raven
Bump
48 posted on 07/12/2002 12:26:28 AM PDT by Kay Soze
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To: American in Israel
Look into how land wealthy the Sierra Club is.

I went to their website. They claim to have 700,000 members and donations are not tax deductible. I still suspect there may be government study grants somewhere in the largess.

49 posted on 07/12/2002 3:55:04 AM PDT by CWRWinger
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To: The Raven
Bump!
50 posted on 07/14/2002 6:56:18 PM PDT by AuntB
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