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Who Were The Knights Templar? (Sunday History Read)
www.templarhistory.com ^ | undated | Stephen Dafoe and Alan Butler

Posted on 07/21/2002 10:01:31 AM PDT by Hacksaw

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To: topsail
My understanding is that there is a medieval statue in Rosslyn Castle in Scotland which has a standing Knight Templar with his hand on the shoulder of a kneeling [praying?] stone mason. I have no idea if this is symbolic of the passage of enlightenment from the Templars to stone masons [which at the time, of course, also included architects], but it is worthy of speculation.

You are probably aware that the oldest written record of masonry is one of the Ancient Constitutions which goes back to the 1300's, although there is a reference in it to masonic activity prior to the year 1000.

101 posted on 10/13/2003 1:42:28 PM PDT by curmudgeonII
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To: Redleg Duke
"Used to be a Shriner for 25 years,"

Cool. Why did you guys have to drive those tiny cars and motorcycles?
102 posted on 10/13/2003 1:44:05 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: Hacksaw
The betrayal of the Templars is referred to as the "cleaving of the elm" in 1307. It was with the plotting of the "Priory of Sion" that France wanted to rid themselves of the Templars. Many of the Knights escaped to England where they sided with Robert the Bruce in his battles. There are rumors of their headquarters being in Rosythe Scotland where a chapel is believed to contain their remains. THAT is were the Scottish Rite of the Freemasons takes it root.

There is also the building of several chruches and cathedrals that are attributed to the Templars and their mason roots.

Semper Fi

103 posted on 10/13/2003 1:47:01 PM PDT by Trident/Delta (Colt 1911 .45ACP .... The "original" point and click device.....)
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To: Trident/Delta
The "Priory of Sion" was apparently founded in 1956, and thus had nothing to do with the dissolution of the Knights Templar:

http://www.anzwers.org/free/posdebunking/

Theories that the Templars escaped to Scotland and sided with Robert the Bruce are more romance than fact.
104 posted on 10/13/2003 1:50:13 PM PDT by Bohemund
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To: Bohemund
Nice try, I did my masters thesis on the Priory and it has roots back to 1054. There is a great deal of published literature regarding the Priory and its colorful history. I can't help it if it is politicaly incorrect and flies in the face of reality.<p.Semper Fi
105 posted on 10/13/2003 1:57:14 PM PDT by Trident/Delta (Colt 1911 .45ACP .... The "original" point and click device.....)
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To: Bohemund
I just visited your source. This is not what could be considered realistic sourcing. Try doing a little REAL homework and not just using Google.

Semper Amused

106 posted on 10/13/2003 1:59:55 PM PDT by Trident/Delta (Colt 1911 .45ACP .... The "original" point and click device.....)
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To: Hacksaw
The Pope's of those days were highly political leaders.

Phillip Le Bel, King of France at the time, sent an army against the pope. He imprisoned him but was eventually forced to release him. That Pope conveniently died shortly thereafter. The next Pope, Clement, was virtually appointed by Phillip and his chief minister, de Nougerat. They ended up moving the Papacy to France for about 70 years. They set about destroying the Templars, as both a threat to their power grab and as a potential source of funds for their wars. The Templars snuck their treasures out of the country, along with their fleet, just before the axe fell.

I hold with the tales of the Templars taking their wealth and secrets to Scotland and aiding Robert the Bruce. There are also intriguing stories of some of the early bucaneers in the next couple of centuries having uncanny similarities in their traditions to the Templars.

There is an interesting and well documented parallel in eastern history. The Chinese emperor outlawed the Shao Lin (of Kung Fu fame) monks. They went underground and formed secret societies which later became the Triads (tong), who controlled much of the trade and organized crime in China and Chinese communities for the next several centuries, right up to today.

I've really enjoyed the well researched fiction of Katherine Kurtz on the history and fate of the Templars. She has written several stories herself as well as editing a couple of really good short story compliations. Though all are fiction, and some quite fanciful, they offer a great background for getting the feeling and for finding a starting place to research the real history.

107 posted on 10/13/2003 2:01:46 PM PDT by Phsstpok (often wrong, but never in doubt)
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To: Trident/Delta
I just visited your source. This is not what could be considered realistic sourcing. Try doing a little REAL homework and not just using Google.

Well, fine. At least I gave a source. What's yours?

108 posted on 10/13/2003 2:01:51 PM PDT by Bohemund
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To: Bohemund
I can play on google too!!

I will admit that I used the term Priory in an all inclusive mode. But, in all my research, the Prieure was the "slang" used to express the order.

PRIORY OF SION: THE FACTS, THE THEORIES, THE MYSTERY

Introduction

It has been seven years since I wrote my first article on the Priory of Sion/Rennes-les-Chateau mystery. At the time, I was heavily under the influence of the books Holy Blood, Holy Grail and Lionel Fanthorpe's work. Since then, there have been a number of books released, some better, some worse, than these original influences. I have revised some of my theories, challenged some of my own assumptions, learned some new things, and encountered a great deal of contrary data. Now, I am no longer sure that the hypothesis presented at the end of Holy Blood, Holy Grail is the best for explaining the data, nor am I sure that a Priory of Sion with the characteristics ascribed to it (an 800-year uninterrupted history, 9000 members internationally) really exists. I also am not sure that what is presented as "orthodox" with regard to the Sauniere saga can really be trusted. Still, although I have encountered the work of the debunkers, I am sure of two and only two things:

1. the Sauniere saga cannot be explained away simply by a mass-trafficking pyramid scheme and a bad taste in décor.

2. Something called the Order de Sion existed in the Middle Ages up until, at the latest, the 17th century; something called the Prieure du Sion existed from at least 1956 to 1984; whether these two things have any actual relationship to each other, I am still trying to figure out.

109 posted on 10/13/2003 2:05:15 PM PDT by Trident/Delta (Colt 1911 .45ACP .... The "original" point and click device.....)
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To: Allan
Bump
110 posted on 10/13/2003 2:05:17 PM PDT by Allan
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To: drjoe
"Read all about it in Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto [Name of the Rose] Eco. Fascinating!!"

yep. I'm currently reading it for the third time. A little obscure in places, but the detective work regarding the Knights Templar is worth the time it takes.

111 posted on 10/13/2003 2:06:56 PM PDT by redhead (Les Franšais sont des singes de capitulation qui mangent du fromage.)
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To: Bohemund
http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/poseur3.html
112 posted on 10/13/2003 2:10:19 PM PDT by Trident/Delta (Colt 1911 .45ACP .... The "original" point and click device.....)
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To: Trident/Delta
Okay, so your source (what's the URL, by the way?) admits that a "Priory of Sion" probably only existed from 1956 to 1984.

Now that you've admitted that the "Priory of Sion" probably only existed since 1956, what are your sources that something called the "Prieure" had anything to do with the Templars?
113 posted on 10/13/2003 2:11:42 PM PDT by Bohemund
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To: drjoe
Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto [Name of the Rose] Eco

Borodino, however you spell it, his latest, or one of his latest, is great fun. Just reading the intro, where Frederick speaks not only German, but in the old German black letter font, was so funny I had to buy the book.

114 posted on 10/13/2003 2:16:01 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: Bohemund
The many orders of Sion

In 1099, Augustinian canons regular establish the Order of Notre Dame de Sion headquartered in the Abbey of Mt. Sion.

An 1178 papal bull by Pope Alexander claims monasteries in Calabria, the Holy Land, Sicily, and elsewhere. Some of these monks appear to have established themselves in Orleans in 1152. This Order appears to have been absorbed into the Jesuits in either 1617 or 1619, but the main source for this remains, unfortunately, Gerard de Sede's 1988 "Les Impostures".

In 1393, Ferri de Vaudemont establishes a Confraternity of Our Lady of Sion in Nancy (the Lorraine, near Sion-Vaudemont). Its relationship to the earlier Order of Sion is unknown. If and when this order ceased to exist, I am unaware.

There appear to have been two Jacobite organizations in the 18th/19th century that used this name: the Realm of Sion, founded in the 1740s, whose leader at one point was the bishop of Rodez, and which claimed descent from a 16th century order dedicated to Thomas Beckett; and a second organization, The Sovereign Sacred Religious and Military Order of Knights Protectors of the Sacred Sepulchre of Our Lord Jesus Christ and of the Most Holy Temple of Zion, founded in New Zealand in 1848.

Only one Order of Notre Dame de Sion actually appears in the Catholic Encyclopedia, and it is the Congregation of Notre Dame de Sion, founded by Marie-Alphonse Ratisbonne in Paris in 1843. This organization has parochial schools in the United States and France. One of its main goals is to convert Jews to Catholicism.

In the mid-1800s, a Czech author, Prokop Chochosoulek, wrote a work, The Templars of Bohemia. It was a work of "historical fiction". However, he does mention a Priory of Sion being behind the creation of the Templars. His reference seems to indicate they still existed in his own time.

From 1807 to 1817, the Russian mystic and Martinist I.V. Lopukhin edited a Martinist journal called The Messenger of Sion, which dealt with a variety of Jewish and mystical themes.

Although never identifying itself as an order of "Sion", an organization formed by the priestly Brothers Baillard, Eugene Michel Vintras (otherwise known as "Elias the Artist", whose mentor was a Madam Bouche who lived near St. Sulpice and went by "Sister Salome"), and the Abbe Joseph Boullan known as the Church of Carmel tried to create a syncretistic Celtic-Christian pilgrimage center at Sion-Vaudemont in the 1850s. This was written about by Lorraine author Maurice Barres in La Colline Inspiree .

In 1956, an organization called the Priory of Sion registers with the Annemasse bureau of records. Its four officers are Andre Bonhomme, president; Jean Delaval, Vice-President; Pierre Plantard, Secretary-General; Armand Defago, Treasurer. Whether this organization continued to exist after the resignation of Grand Master Pierre Plantard in 1984, no one knows.

Currently headquartered on Saint James, Long Island, is the Grand Perceptory of the Chevaliers of Notre Dame de Sion - their home page is online at this link - it claims its foundation from Marcel Lefebvre and currently says it is under the leadership of Andre Barbeau as an "Exempt Sovereign Military Religious Order". Its mission, it proclaims, is to provide medical psychiatric care to the community [sic] and also to perform interfaith marriages. Its clerical staff, it says, includes the Rev. Paul Boucher and the Rev. Douglas Trees, as well as several Rabbis listed as "Interfaith". The site is vague but would appear to indicate the order was "revitalized" in the 1980s.

Semper Fi

115 posted on 10/13/2003 2:16:24 PM PDT by Trident/Delta (Colt 1911 .45ACP .... The "original" point and click device.....)
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To: Katya
My interest in the Knights Templar, the monastic life, and knighthood has always been more pragmatic social history....ie. Knighthood and service as a rung to the middle class. The monasteries created towns, schools and the need for trained knights guaranteed a boy of modest means the avenue for progress and property. This was entirely a western invention not based on any caste system. I wonder how much of the persecutions were a result of the fear by the papacy/aristocracy of this rise of the individual.

The knights of the holy orders, including the Templars and the Knights Hospitalier, were drawn from the ranks of nobility. Almost exclusively the younger sons of families with too many sons to divy up the family lands for. The only "middle class" members of the Templars (unless you consider these younger sons the "middle class," which is not unreasonable) were the sergeants and servants. This was also true of most of the knights who went on the crusades. They were sent off to carve out lands of their own. The Templars didn't do this as they were forbidden to own anything, turning all their worldly goods over the order. That's where the seed money came from for their wealth.

The social institutions you speak of may certainly have come to be, but they weren't part of the Templar orders history, so far as I know (1118-1312).

Now, what the Templars found in the ruins of Solomon's stables is another story entirely...

Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomini Tuo Da Gloriam

Not To Us O Lord Not To Us But To Your Name Give Glory

Psalm 115, v1 Hebrew Psalter Psalm 113, v13 Greek Psalter.

The Templar oath.

116 posted on 10/13/2003 2:17:47 PM PDT by Phsstpok (often wrong, but never in doubt)
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To: Bohemund
Okay, so your source (what's the URL, by the way?) admits that a "Priory of Sion" probably only existed from 1956 to 1984.

Now that you've admitted that the "Priory of Sion" probably only existed since 1956, what are your sources that something called the "Prieure" had anything to do with the Templars?

If you take the time to look into it you will find that the "Priory" that you allude to from 1956-1984 is based on their "registry" with the French government as a "organization". Your assumption that since they registered in 1956, that it indicates that it was founded then simply flies in the face of reality. If you look at #112 you will find the URL to an associates writings on the subject.

Your reference is some boob who bought internet space and is attempting to discredit a line of historic research. You may not like it. It may fly in the face of certain religious teachings, but, there is a quite an academic following in this research. My thesis (which was for my criminal justice degree by the way), focused on the use of modern investigative techniques in the pursuit of truth in mysteries such as the Priory of Sion. To that end I applie currently accepted investigative technique to the task. I will say that I don't believe in the underlying thesis of the "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" book, but, to deny the existance of a chronicaled organization is simply stupid. I have given you more time than I normally suffer to such endeavors, I will not respond to you again.

Semper Fi

117 posted on 10/13/2003 2:25:34 PM PDT by Trident/Delta (Colt 1911 .45ACP .... The "original" point and click device.....)
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To: Trident/Delta
Still no sourcing?

An 1178 papal bull by Pope Alexander claims monasteries in Calabria, the Holy Land, Sicily, and elsewhere. Some of these monks appear to have established themselves in Orleans in 1152. This Order appears to have been absorbed into the Jesuits in either 1617 or 1619, but the main source for this remains, unfortunately, Gerard de Sede's 1988 "Les Impostures".

So an unsourced article says an 1988 work states that some monks of an order that has the word "Sion" "appear" to have moved to Orleans in 1152, and that the order appears" to have been absorbed by the Society of Jesus in the 17th century.

In 1393, Ferri de Vaudemont establishes a Confraternity of Our Lady of Sion in Nancy (the Lorraine, near Sion-Vaudemont). Its relationship to the earlier Order of Sion is unknown. If and when this order ceased to exist, I am unaware.

Your unsourced article then mentions a cofraternity with the word "Sion" in it that was founded in 1393 but admmits no proof of connection to the "Order of Sion."

There appear to have been two Jacobite organizations in the 18th/19th century that used this name: the Realm of Sion, founded in the 1740s, whose leader at one point was the bishop of Rodez, and which claimed descent from a 16th century order dedicated to Thomas Beckett; and a second organization, The Sovereign Sacred Religious and Military Order of Knights Protectors of the Sacred Sepulchre of Our Lord Jesus Christ and of the Most Holy Temple of Zion, founded in New Zealand in 1848.

Again without sources, your article mentions two more organizations with the word "Sion" in their names, one in New Zealand.

Only one Order of Notre Dame de Sion actually appears in the Catholic Encyclopedia, and it is the Congregation of Notre Dame de Sion, founded by Marie-Alphonse Ratisbonne in Paris in 1843. This organization has parochial schools in the United States and France. One of its main goals is to convert Jews to Catholicism.

And another organization with the word "Sion" in it, with no relationship to the "Order of Sion."

In the mid-1800s, a Czech author, Prokop Chochosoulek, wrote a work, The Templars of Bohemia. It was a work of "historical fiction". However, he does mention a Priory of Sion being behind the creation of the Templars. His reference seems to indicate they still existed in his own time.

A 19th century novelist mentions something called the "Priory of Sion," related to the Templars. A few years later, Arthur Conan Doyle mentions a dectective named Sherlock Holmes, who therefore really existed.

From 1807 to 1817, the Russian mystic and Martinist I.V. Lopukhin edited a Martinist journal called The Messenger of Sion, which dealt with a variety of Jewish and mystical themes.

Another thing with "Sion" in its name.

Although never identifying itself as an order of "Sion", an organization formed by the priestly Brothers Baillard, Eugene Michel Vintras (otherwise known as "Elias the Artist", whose mentor was a Madam Bouche who lived near St. Sulpice and went by "Sister Salome"), and the Abbe Joseph Boullan known as the Church of Carmel tried to create a syncretistic Celtic-Christian pilgrimage center at Sion-Vaudemont in the 1850s. This was written about by Lorraine author Maurice Barres in La Colline Inspiree.

Well, the town has "Sion" in its name, so it must be related to the Templars. Sigh.

In 1956, an organization called the Priory of Sion registers with the Annemasse bureau of records. Its four officers are Andre Bonhomme, president; Jean Delaval, Vice-President; Pierre Plantard, Secretary-General; Armand Defago, Treasurer. Whether this organization continued to exist after the resignation of Grand Master Pierre Plantard in 1984, no one knows.

We've been over this...

Currently headquartered on Saint James, Long Island, is the Grand Perceptory of the Chevaliers of Notre Dame de Sion - their home page is online at this link - it claims its foundation from Marcel Lefebvre and currently says it is under the leadership of Andre Barbeau as an "Exempt Sovereign Military Religious Order". Its mission, it proclaims, is to provide medical psychiatric care to the community [sic] and also to perform interfaith marriages. Its clerical staff, it says, includes the Rev. Paul Boucher and the Rev. Douglas Trees, as well as several Rabbis listed as "Interfaith". The site is vague but would appear to indicate the order was "revitalized" in the 1980s.

And its relationship to the "Order of Sion," "Priory of Sion," Sion-Vaudemont or the Templpars? Other than the name?

Maybe "Sion" is just the way the French write "Zion," seat of King David, and that's why it reappears in religious history? Nah. It must be a huge conspiracy.

Come on. You wrote your master's thesis on this stuff, right? You can do better than this.

118 posted on 10/13/2003 2:43:02 PM PDT by Bohemund
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To: Bohemund
Idiot...Look at post #112. It was posted BEFORE you asked for a source. I guess you can't read either.

Semper Pissed

119 posted on 10/13/2003 2:49:11 PM PDT by Trident/Delta (Colt 1911 .45ACP .... The "original" point and click device.....)
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To: Trident/Delta
Come on. You wrote your master's thesis on this stuff, right? You can do better than this. Shame on Georgetown, they gave me my degree..

Semper Gone

120 posted on 10/13/2003 2:51:03 PM PDT by Trident/Delta (Colt 1911 .45ACP .... The "original" point and click device.....)
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To: lonlyjen
Thanks for resurrecting this thread (on 10-13 of all days).
I missed it’s first run.

Interesting stuff.

121 posted on 10/13/2003 2:53:50 PM PDT by Freebird Forever
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To: Redleg Duke
CoH this year.. WM of my blue lodge finally next year. It's gonna be a blast!
122 posted on 10/13/2003 2:54:19 PM PDT by a_Turk (But the game never ends when your whole world depends on the turn of a friendly card..)
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To: Bohemund
Oh yeah, I expect that you will find fault with Dr. Mizrachs work in this area, WON"T YOU???

Semper Gone

123 posted on 10/13/2003 2:54:20 PM PDT by Trident/Delta (Colt 1911 .45ACP .... The "original" point and click device.....)
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To: Trident/Delta
Idiot...Look at post #112. It was posted BEFORE you asked for a source. I guess you can't read either. Semper Pissed

Yeah, I missed 112. Sorry.

Oh yeah, I expect that you will find fault with Dr. Mizrachs work in this area, WON"T YOU??? Semper Gone

Why would I? Mizrach did a better job discrediting the whole Sion/Templar myth than I ever could have.

Anyway, I see I've touched a nerve. I'll leave you to your "studies."

124 posted on 10/13/2003 3:02:27 PM PDT by Bohemund
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To: Trident/Delta
Come on. You wrote your master's thesis on this stuff, right? You can do better than this.

Shame on Georgetown, they gave me my degree.

Since when does Georgetown offer a masters in Criminal Justice?

http://eis.georgetown.edu/web/home/learning_type.cfm?ID=60

Semper I Don't Care

125 posted on 10/13/2003 3:12:09 PM PDT by Bohemund
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To: drjoe
Read all about it in Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto [Name of the Rose] Eco. Fascinating!!

Also in "The Avignon Quintet" by Lawrence Durrell
even longer and more obscure than Foucault's Pendulum.

126 posted on 10/13/2003 5:03:40 PM PDT by Allan
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To: curmudgeonII
LOS is Ladies Oriental Shrine. Concordant body of the Shrine. My wife belonged when we lived out in Northern California.
127 posted on 10/14/2003 5:28:34 AM PDT by Redleg Duke (Stir the pot...don't let anything settle to the bottom where the lawyers can feed off of it!)
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To: Rebelbase
There are various units within each Shrine Temple. It is for fun and also to raise money to support the Shriners' Burn and Orthopedic Centers. Liberals hate them because they help the poor kids live normal lives, including those from other countries. A kid who grows up healthy is less likely to be a victim...and liberals need victims.
128 posted on 10/14/2003 5:30:26 AM PDT by Redleg Duke (Stir the pot...don't let anything settle to the bottom where the lawyers can feed off of it!)
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To: a_Turk
Good Luck. It is a lot of work and takes a lot of planning, but is it fun too!
129 posted on 10/14/2003 5:31:00 AM PDT by Redleg Duke (Stir the pot...don't let anything settle to the bottom where the lawyers can feed off of it!)
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To: Redleg Duke
I have to express my disapointment with the Shrine in recent years. Although they do excellent work with their childrten no-payment hospitals, I feel that they've really lowered their standards when they eliminated the Scottish or York Rite prerequisite.
130 posted on 10/14/2003 1:37:39 PM PDT by curmudgeonII
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To: curmudgeonII
I totally agree. It also hurts those bodies.
131 posted on 10/14/2003 6:29:23 PM PDT by Redleg Duke (Stir the pot...don't let anything settle to the bottom where the lawyers can feed off of it!)
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To: RightWhale
Any idea what the Baphomet is or was?

I think Baphomet was or is a demon. (Replying to this a year late!)

132 posted on 11/15/2004 1:56:14 PM PST by Hacksaw (You can judge a man by the members of his bump list.)
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bump for later


133 posted on 11/15/2004 1:58:51 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
I believe this was a Friday, and therefore is the direct link to the Friday 13 superstition.

It was.
As for the source of the superstition, it's as good as any reason I've heard.

134 posted on 11/15/2004 2:15:00 PM PST by dread78645 (Truth is always the right answer)
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To: another cricket

Very astute observation.


135 posted on 11/15/2004 2:19:32 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Trident/Delta

Are you on the POS mailing list with Steve Mizrach, TCP, Stella, Dante et al? I've been there since it started in 1998.I don't post much anymore, but read faithfully. My favorite study,I even found Godfrey d'Boullion in my genealogy....be whoop now a days though. {G}

Peace


136 posted on 11/15/2004 2:22:04 PM PST by hergus
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To: Bohemund; Trident/Delta

Have you ever conversed online with Steve? If not you don't know all his beliefs by any means. I've posted with Steve since before he became DR.Steve. Give it up, you're out of your league here.


137 posted on 11/15/2004 2:25:38 PM PST by hergus
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To: Hacksaw

Baphoment was said by some of to be a head they worshipped, possibly John the Baptist. Other thinkers even say it might have been a machine that was part of a much older knowledge that the Templars found in their searches under King Solomon's Temple. The real reason they went to the crusades, btw.


138 posted on 11/15/2004 2:29:25 PM PST by hergus
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To: lonlyjen

I think you need to read more valid sources or talk with real Masons


139 posted on 11/15/2004 2:31:09 PM PST by 5Madman2 (DemocRATS are Vermin)
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To: Redleg Duke

It's good to see a thread on Masonry that has not totally degenerated into a "Grand Conspiracy" or "they're all Satanist"

It's also good to see fellow Masons on FR


140 posted on 11/15/2004 2:37:36 PM PST by 5Madman2 (DemocRATS are Vermin)
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To: KayEyeDoubleDee
Isn't there some connection between the Templars and this?



Break the Code
141 posted on 11/15/2004 2:39:14 PM PST by mentor2k
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To: Hacksaw

Baphomet, bad speller here. Here are some theories:

- Noel Currer-Briggs, The Shroud and the Grail

It is possible that the head idol was intended to represent the severed head of John the Baptist, based on allegations that he was revered by the Order. The Templars took part in the sack of Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade in 1203-4. Robert de Clari described the opulence and numerous relics at the sacred chapel of the Boucoleon Palace, amongst them supposedly the head of John the Baptist.


- P. R. Koenig, Too Hot to Handle

Another possibility as to the identity of the Baphomet may lie with Nicodemus, who in the Gospel of John who brought spices for Christ's burial. He is also mentioned in the apocryphal Evangelium Nicodemi (4th C.) as a ruler of the Jews who testified in Christ's favor. The Interpolation in the First Continuation of Chrétien's Perceval (12??) tells of the flight of Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea to England and includes the following intriguing passage:

Another possibility for the origin of the Head relates to the imagery on the first Grand Master's shield, which consisted of three black heads on a gold field. After about two hundred years, it is plausible that this head imagery could have worked itself into the legend of the Baphomet. According to more than one account, the Head was the actual skull of Hugues de Payen, which was preserved as an object of veneration.


- Forrest Jackson, The Baphomet in History and Symbolism

We found indisputable evidence for the charge of secret ceremonies involving a head of some kind. Indeed the existence of such a head proved to be one of the dominant themes running through the Inquisition records. Among the confiscated goods of the Paris preceptory a reliquary in the shape of a woman's head was found. It was hinged on top, and contained what appeared to have been relics of a peculiar kind."


- Baigent, Leigh & Lincoln, The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail

Herodotus (4:26) speaks of the practice in the obscure Issedones of gilding a head and sacrificing to it. Cleomenes of Sparta is said to have preserved the head of Archonides in honey and consulted it before undertaking an important task. Several vases of the fourth century BC in Etruria depict scenes of persons interrogating oracular heads. And the severed head of the rustic Carians which continues to 'speak' is mentioned derisively by Aristotle."

http://www.crystalinks.com/baphomet.html



142 posted on 11/15/2004 2:44:35 PM PST by hergus
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To: Hacksaw
Freemasonry is not a Christian religion. Rather, the Masons espouse beliefs that are incompatible with the teachings of Christ and his apostles.

The Masons ask their members to keep to themselves all beliefs concerning Jesus Christ, the Bible and the authority of the Church. Masonry is all about occult and "Wizardry", which is expressively forbidden in the Judao-Christian Bible.

Masonry can really not be called a Secret Cult, because it is open to almost the entire public to join. It can best be called a Cult with Secrets. The rank and file never learn the "highest secrets". If they did--they may flee in a hurry when they realize "Lucifer, the Light-bearer!" is "directing the show". This reference is on page 321, of one of Freemasonry's greatest books entitled "Morals And Dogma" by Albert Pike.

From: http://www.bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htm

143 posted on 11/15/2004 3:10:27 PM PST by Verax
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To: Cowboy Bob

Bump for later reading


144 posted on 11/15/2004 3:11:15 PM PST by Cowboy Bob (Fraud is the lifeblood of the Democratic Party)
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To: Hacksaw
---In this sense they were the first of the Warrior Monks.---

Warrior Monks?

:)

145 posted on 11/15/2004 3:12:18 PM PST by smonk
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To: Hacksaw; RikaStrom

Grampa bump.


146 posted on 11/15/2004 3:16:03 PM PST by humblegunner (And who knows what else?)
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To: hergus

This is what I found:

There have been many strange idols throughout the ages but the idol of Baphomet seems to be among the most mysterious. All which seems to be known about this unknown figure it that it is sometimes called the goat idol of the Knights Templar and the deity of the sorcerers' Sabbat. Even the name Baphomet seems to be a composition of abbreviations: 'Temp. ohp. Ab.' which originates from Latin 'Templi omnium hominum pacis abhas,' meaning "the father of universal peace among men."

The many accounts concerning Baphomet describe the idol as a monstrous head, a demon in the form of a goat, a figure with a goat's head and a body combining the characteristics of a dog, bull, and ass. The body was thought to symbolize the burden of matter from which arose the repentance for sin. The human hands formed a sign of esotericism to impress mystery upon the initiates. First they represented the sanctity of labor; and by pointing two lunar crescents, the upper being white and the lower black, they also represented good and evil, mercy and justice. The lower part of the goat's body was veiled but expressed the mysteries the universial generation symbolized by the caduceus or the phallus. The goat's female breasts were the only symbols of maternity, toil, and redemption.

Most accounts of the idol Baphomet were from the confessions of the Knights Templar at their trials after the Inquisition. This is why the idol still remain a fascination and a puzzlement. Instead of definitely establishing the existence of the idol the variances in the Knights confessions did the opposite. Not only is there an uncertainty whether the idol existed but, also, whether there was just one or several idols. The uncertainty of the idol's existence arises because some of the heresy and devil-worship charges brought against the Templars were never proven, and Baphomet was thought to represent the devil. During the knights' confessions the idol seemed to change or was shown in different forms. It was described differently as having a frightful head with a long bird and sparking eyes; or a man's skull; or having three faces. Some said it was made of wood while others said it was metal.

Although some accounts give the idol a goat's body as previously mentioned and others are vague, others described the head in detail. It possessed horns and between the two horns was a torch which represented the intelligence of the triad. Still below the torch, on the forehead, is the sign of the microcosm, or the pentagram with one beam in ascendant symbolizing human intelligence. The situating of the pentagram below the torch was to signify that human intelligence is the image of the divine intellect.

Among the heresy charges brought against the Templars was that some had embrace Mahometanism even though they had sworn to fight against every pagan belief. The charge arose when a knight confessed that he was made to adore the idol by kissing its feet and uttering the word 'Xalla,' which was a word of the Saracens. This was seized upon for proving heresy against the Order, but it must be remembered that western Christians were constantly trying to attribute the idol to Mahomet as an expression of their desire to persecute the Knights.

The belief in Baphomet still exists among some occultists. They hold the idol of the Templars was really the god of the witches deriving from the nature god Pan. In the 19th. century the Austrian Orientalist Baron Joseph von Hammer-Purgstal discovered an inscription on a coffer in Burgandy which he claimed indicated the Baphomet came from the Greek words meaning "Baptism of Metis (Wisdom)." This seemed to exalt Metis or Baphomet as the true divinity.

In the 20th. century German occultists formed the secret order of the O.T.O. (Ordo Templi Orientis or Order of Templars in the East). They installed the English occultist Aleister Crowley to head their British section. Crowley took Baphomet as his magical name. A.G.H.

from http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/b/baphomet.html
(end of text)


147 posted on 11/15/2004 3:25:40 PM PST by Hacksaw (You can judge a man by the members of his bump list.)
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To: Hacksaw

BTTT


148 posted on 11/15/2004 3:26:26 PM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Bohemund

Tri/Delt is a notorious fantasist.

Ask him about his life as a spook if you want a good laff sometime.

(I'm surprised he's not underground again. LOL!)


149 posted on 11/15/2004 3:46:05 PM PST by dimkicker
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To: 5Madman2

It certainly is!


150 posted on 11/15/2004 6:28:00 PM PST by Redleg Duke (Pass Tort Reform Now! Make the bottom clean for the catfish!)
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