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Thousands in the Line of Fire in SW Oregon
KGW TV/AP ^ | 31 July 2002 | Jeff Barnard

Posted on 07/31/2002 8:14:18 AM PDT by Grampa Dave

Thousands in the Line of Fire in SW Oregon 07/31/2002

By JEFF BARNARD, Associated Press Writer

Officials say there is just one main route out of the fire zone in southern Oregon's Illinois Valley -- U-S 199 South -- along with three back roads. Josephine County sheriff's deputies say signs pointing out evacuation routes will go up today.

The Florence Fire has burned about 145-thousand acres and the Sour Biscuit fire stands at about 35-thousand acres. They two fires remain about three to four miles apart, but together they form a 30-mile long front of fire threatening the communities of O'Brien, Cave Junction, Selma and Kerby.

Smoke from the Florence wildfire burning near Selma, Ore., raises into the sky over Grants Pass. (AP Photo)

Seventeen thousand residents of the area have been put on 30-minute evacuation notice.

Bulldozers have cut a last-ditch line of defense for the Illinois Valley, but officials have told residents it may not hold, and they should be ready to leave if they hear an evacuation notice on the radio.

"I need to be honest with you and say there is a chance the fire will be in the Illinois Valley," said Greg Gilpin of the Oregon Department of Forestry, evacuation coordinator on the fire.

"We are looking at the fire at this time as uncontrollable."

Cliff Loncosky, left, and his wife, Rebecca, pack belongings into a pick-up as they assist his father prepare for a possible evacuation from his home along Highway 199, near Cave Junction. (AP Photo)

About 200 people sat in the stifling heat of the Illinois Valley High School gym to hear the bad news, but many shared Heon's view.

One who didn't was Maggie Connery, whose husband is one of 1,200 firefighters on the Florence Fire. Holding her 2 1/2-year-old son, Connery said she was taking her children to nearby Grants Pass to stay with family.

Maps posted outside the gym showed they are still four miles from running into each other but together form a 30-mile long front of fire threatening the communities of O'Brien, Cave Junction, Selma and Kerby.

Incident commander Mike Lohrey of the U.S. Forest Service said bulldozers have dug fire lines connecting a network of Siskiyou National Forest roads to create a last-line of defense between the eastern front of the fire and the communities along U.S. Highway 199.

Faye Withers, right, comforts Ashley and Isaac Withers as Amanda Withers, sitting, and Isaiah Williams, held by his mother, Sharon, left, listen to fire officers during a town meeting at the high school in Cave Junction. (AP Photo)

Waiting for the right conditions, firefighters were to begin burning out brush and timber in the three-mile-wide space between the bulldozer line and the fire.

The burning operation was expected to take the next three days if all goes well. "We're waiting for those conditions when you feel a light wind on the back of your neck so the flames are sucked into the fire," Lohrey said.

Meanwhile bulldozers began building a similar line on the north end of the fire to protect the community of Agness, a hub of whitewater rafting on the Rogue River.

Some residents expressed frustration that the fires were not stopped two weeks ago after the original lightning strikes. But Gilpin explained that firefighting resources around the nation are stretched to the limit.

A helicopter drops water unto a burning wildfire on the Siskyou Forest north of Selma, Ore., near the California border. (AP Photo)

Meanwhile 110 structural firefighters continued going house to house plotting their locations by Global Positioning System and assessing whether the homes can be defended if the fire hits.

"If we can improve the defense ability with minor modification we will do that," said Tim Birr, spokesman for the Oregon Fire Marshal's Office.

"We will do a little weed-whacking but we will not take down a tree in your yard," he said.

One primary escape route, U.S. Highway 199 south to the coast, remained closed by another fire in California; however, U.S. Highway 199 north to Grants Pass and three different back roads remained open, said Josephine County sheriff's Lt. Lee Harman.

Signs pointing out evacuation routes will go up Wednesday, he said.

Weather forecaster Jim Harrison said there was no rain in sight but northwest winds should continue for the next couple of days which would tend to push the fire toward the bulldozer line.

Three homes have already been lost to the Florence Fire.

Chevron gas station owner Jeff Stiles said quite a few people left the valley Monday, but those who remain seem calm. "This is a survivalist area," he said. "There are a lot of people who want to make a last stand at their own property. The people who stayed are a tough breed."

The crossroads animal hospital sold out of pet carriers and nearly ran out of sedatives for dogs and cats, said Sue Fiske.

The Josephine County Sheriff's Posse has been helping people round up livestock to transport to safer ground, and veterinarians and kennels in Grants Pass 30 miles away, are offering refuge for pets.

"It's amazing how many people can't find their leashes and collars for their pets and are coming in for new ones," said Fiske. "You really know what people are made of when you get hit by something like this. I think a lot of people are really compassionate."

One of the animals evacuated was a 40-year-old horse named Tye, which was ridden by John Wayne in the movie "Rooster Cogburn," said Gary Brummett, owner of the Deer Creek Ranch outside of Selma.

At the local senior center, Floyd Watkins shot pool with Rusty Fox and said quite a few older residents have left the area because of problems breathing the smoke, but most have stayed, hoping for the best.

Wildfires at a Glance

Major wildfires were burning on more than 350,000 acres in Oregon on Tuesday.

About 12,115 firefighters are working in the state. The Northwest Interagency Communication Center is tracking at least 14 major fires in Oregon. Top priorities for fire officials were the Florence fire, the Timbered Rock fire, the Cache Mountain fire and the Sour Biscuit fire.

LUCKY FIRE

Started: 7/29/02, 10 p.m. six miles south of Detroit.

Size:60 acres

Containment: 10 percent

Evacuations: None.

Damages: None yet. In heavy timber.

On scene: 120 firefighters.

Cause: Lightning

SKUNK FIRE:

Started: 7/24/2002, Klamath County, north of Sprague River.

Size: 2,544 acres

Evacuations: Moccasin Hill and Klamath Forest Estates subdivision orders have been lifted as of July 29, 2002.

Damage: one outbuilding destroyed.

Containment: 80 percent containment.

On scene: 441 firefighters.

Cause: Lightning strikes.

CACHE MOUNTAIN:

Started: 7/24/02, 15 miles northwest of Sisters, Oregon

Size: 3,700 acres.

Containment: 85 percent.

Evacuations: About 1300 homes evacuated. Evacuation order remains in place. Highway 20 reopened.

Damage: Two homes destroyed.

On scene: 459 firefighters.

Cause: Lightning.

SHELDON RIDGE:

Started: 7/24/02, 3 miles southwest of The Dalles.

Size: 12,761 acres

Containment: 80 percent

Evacuations: Voluntary evacuation cancelled.

Damage: Eight outbuildings destroyed, one home damaged.

On scene: 660 total personnel.

Cause: Lightning.

WINTER-TOOLBOX FIRES

Started: in Lake County 07/12/02 and merged 7/20/02.

Size: 86,794 (Toolbox) 35,525 (Winter)

Containment: 65 percent (Toolbox); 90 percent (Winter)

Evacuations: Voluntary evacuations of 85 homes.

Damage: None reported.

On scene: 2479 (both fires combined)

Cause: Lightning.

MALHEUR-FLAGTAIL COMPLEX

Started: 8-25 miles from Prairie City, 07/12/02.

Size: 24,200 acres.

Containment: 30 percent.

Evacuations: No mandatory evacuation, but 52 residences and 13 commercial properties and 196 outbuildings are threatened. A historic home, Austin House, is 4 miles from the fire.

Damage: None.

On scene: 1,752 firefighters

Cause: Lightning

TILLER COMPLEX

Started: Outside Tiller, east of Canyonville off Interstate 5, 07/12/02.

Size: 18,655 acres.

Containment: 25 percent

Evacuations: South Umpqua Road closed at milepost 6. Fifteen residence threatened. Tribal ceremonial grounds and critical cultural resources are threatened.

Damage: No listed damage.

On scene: 1,359 firefighters

Cause: Lightning.

NORTH UMPQUA COMPLEX

Started: 25 miles east of Glide, 07/12/02.

Size: 1,749 acres.

Containment: 80 percent.

Evacuations: 20 residences threatened, one business and 10 outbuildings. Historical resources, cultural sites threatened.

Damage: None.

On Scene: 610 firefighters.

Cause: Lightning.

MONUMENT FIRE

Started: 9 miles southwest of Unity, 07/12/02

Size: 24,435 acres

Containment: 80 percent.

Evacuations: None at this time.

Damage:None.

On Scene: 1,233 firefighters, military battalion from Topeka, Kansas in place.

Cause: Lightning.

747/MURRAY COMPLEX

Started: Northeast of Paulina in Black Canyon Wilderness, 07/13/22.

Size: 17,266 acres

Containment: 80 percent.

Evacuations: No evacuations; Four homes and eight outbuildings threatened.

Damage: Road closures.

On scene: 653 firefighters.

Cause: Lightning.

FLORENCE FIRE

Started: 26 miles west of Grant Pass, 07/13/02.

Size: 145,000 acres.

Containment: 5 percent.

Evacuations: The entire Illinois Valley on notice to evacuate.

Damage: 3 residences and 8 outbuildings.

On scene: 988 firefighters.

Cause: Lightning.

SOUR BISCUIT FIRE

Started: 17 miles southwest of Cave Junction

Size: 35,000 acres. (source: Florence fire camp)

Containment: zero percent containment

Evacuations: None yet.

Damage: no

On scene:373

Cause: lightning

TIMBERED ROCK FIRE

Started: Unknown. 20 miles north of Medford.

Size: 13,450 acres

Containment: 20 percent

Evacuations: Elk Creek Road is closed except to fire vehicles. Evacuation area for all addresses along Elk Creek Road, 143 homes, is still in effect. No homes were immediately threatened by yesterday's fire activity and no homes have been lost. July 30.

Damage: None

On Scene: 988 firefighters

Cause: lightning

Source: The Northwest Interagency Coordination Center


TOPICS: Breaking News
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From this report it does not appear that the two fires have merged.

It is really hard to get a fix on this situation.

We would appreciate the feedback from those living in the Grants Pass/Medford or Brookings/Coastal area.

1 posted on 07/31/2002 8:14:18 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: AuntB; wanderin; EBUCK; forester; marsh2; tubebender; blackie; dixiechick2000; bybybill; ...
FYI!

Would you locals please keep your ears on your radios and let us know if these fires merger or don't.
2 posted on 07/31/2002 8:17:57 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: WaterDragon; farmfriend; madfly; brityank; backhoe; *Enviralists
Here is the latest on the SW Oregon fire. News is really hard to get.

However, the latest news shows no merging of the fire.

Please use your ping lists.
3 posted on 07/31/2002 8:20:38 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
I've not heard anything about a merger. I actually watched the broadcast news lastnight and they are all over this (after they get all their commercials done that is) and they only hinted at the possibility.

This is getting so bad! And it's only just started. We just cleared our deductible, 10.2 million, and out complete policy runs around 50 million total. Estimate are that we'll double that bt the time we're through. We're so hosed. I'm thinking of taking a leave from work to go help the fight....

EBUCK

4 posted on 07/31/2002 8:23:14 AM PDT by EBUCK
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To: All
Scary update from Oregon live this morning:

Crews try to cut legs out from under monster blaze

07/31/02, ALEX PULASKI and BETH QUINN


CAVE JUNCTION -- As two Southern Oregon fires marched toward each other Tuesday and a third threatened to join them, firefighting crews and heavy-equipment operators struggled to seal off populated areas from their advance.

Fire officials put all 17,000 residents in the Illinois Valley on a 30-minute evacuation notice Tuesday night, meaning every household should be packed and ready to leave if the wind shifts and sends the fire into to the valley.

"Our intent is to stop this fire, but you need to understand that there is a chance this will not work," Greg Gilpin, incident commander for the Oregon Department of Forestry, told about 500 people at a community meeting in Cave Junction on Tuesday night. "Every citizen in the Illinois Valley needs to think about leaving the valley."

Terry Haines, emergency services director for the Rogue Valley chapter of the American Red Cross, said the potential disaster was more frightening than anything he'd seen.

"When you're talking about losing an entire valley, 17,000 homes, when the southern escape route is closed and there's only one way out of here, when you're looking at a 30-foot wall of fire that no one's been able to stop, you're talking about divine intervention here," Haines said.

Although U.S. 199 has been closed by a fire in Northern California, state officials there have agreed to open it if an evacuation is ordered in Oregon, according to the Josephine County sheriff's office.

Sheriff's deputies drove four routes leading out of the valley Monday and uncovered a potentially serious glitch in the evacuation plan.

Deputies found road crews ready to narrow traffic to one lane on U.S. 199 between Selma and Grants Pass, the main highway leading north. Another crew was putting tar and gravel on the road from Upper Deer Creek to Williamson, which would have slowed traffic to a crawl. Both projects have been put on hold until the fire emergency is over.

Ringed by 5,000-foot mountains and thousands of square miles of timbered national forest and threaded with rivers and creeks, the Illinois Valley is an inland island with only four exits.

"I wanted my own people to confirm that those were open," said Lt. Lee Harmon of the Josephine County sheriff's department, whose job is to oversee the traffic flowing out.

The Florence fire doubled in size to 141,650 acres overnight; Sour Biscuit increased by 9,000 acres to 33,287 acres. To the south, near Gasquet in Northern California, the Shelly Creek fire had spread to several hundred acres.

Gilpin said the Florence fire is headed north and was about six miles from Agness. He said it could reach the tiny historic community on the Rogue River within 24 hours.

Mike Lohrey, who will officially take over command of the fire this morning, said crews are working to seal off communities from potential fire advances with bulldozer cuts and back burns.

"A lot of smoke in the air (will be) the smoke we're going to be making," Lohrey said.

Although crews have established what they think is a secure anchor point northwest of Selma, officials warned that if the fire took off it could begin spot fires two miles ahead of its plume, jumping fire lines and forcing evacuations.

"If it looks like it will threaten particular zones we will evacuate them and not the whole valley," said Jim Wolf, an Oregon Department of Forestry fire prevention planner. Glenn Joki, incident commander on the Florence fire, and others said they had rarely seen the sort of "advanced extreme" fire behavior exhibited during the weekend.

But an inversion layer, fairly mild winds and temperatures in the mid-90s have caused the fire to settle down a bit, at least temporarily, Joki said.

Besides the fire lines and burns being conducted on the fires' eastern flank, Anderson said, California crews were cutting line to the south, the primary direction the fires have moved.

Pat Velasco, fire behavior analyst on the Florence blaze, cautioned crews in a morning written briefing about the flames' unpredictability. "Yesterday was a 'forgiving' day, don't get complacent," he wrote. "The fire monster will soon revive; you will again see Dangerous Aggressive Burning conditions."

Also Tuesday morning, Lt. Brian Anderson's crew at the Josephine County emergency operations center at the courthouse in Grants Pass was staffing the phones on behalf of the Illinois Valley's livestock.

"The phone calls are coming in -- it's almost like a Jerry Lewis telethon down here," Anderson said. "We're getting a lot of phone calls about moving horses and llamas and pigs and chickens. We're trying to marry that information with people offering to help. I think actually we're up over 120 people who've volunteered to take in people and animals."

Gary Brummett, owner of the Deer Creek Ranch, said one of the animals evacuated Tuesday was Tye, a 40-year-old horse ridden by John Wayne in the 1975 movie "Rooster Cogburn," which was made in the Rogue Valley.

On Sunday, the Oregon Department of Forestry and the Josephine County Fire Defense Board mapped out 10 evacuation zones.

Since then, most homes near Selma have been visited twice. First, by deputies or volunteers who went door to door with an evacuation notice. Later, crews of city firefighters, who came from throughout Southern Oregon, went door to door to determine which homes could be defended. At driveway entrances along U.S. 199, firefighters tied yellow, green or red ribbons to signal their evaluation of whether the house could be defended.

Evacuations are voluntary -- not even the county sheriff can order residents to leave their homes.

If an evacuation is called, residents will be notified by door-to-door contact, by trucks equipped with loudspeakers and by local radio stations.

The South Middle School shelter in Grants Pass will hold 250 evacuees, and three more shelters in the city are prepared to open at a moment's notice should a large-scale evacuation be ordered. Each will offer cots, blankets and three meals a day to those forced by fire to leave their homes.

Forty-eight people spent Monday night at the shelter, and 78 others have stopped by to register with shelter officials in case distant family and friends call in to find out if their loved ones are safe. Bryan Denson and Erin Hoover Barnett of The Oregonian contributed to this report.



5 posted on 07/31/2002 8:27:30 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: EBUCK; Archie Bunker on steroids; AuntB; wanderin; forester; marsh2; tubebender; blackie; ...
It sounds like they have plenty of people, and they have a lot of equipment there.

Also, it sounds like now they are being allowed to fight this fire with any tools from cats to back fires at this time.

I have this terrible feeling that the elite Eco Fascists prevented any real heavy duty work until this thing started to spiral out of control a couple of days ago.

If the elite Eco Fascists, their poster boy governor and their pink laced panty wearers in the Floristry Service prevented the real Forestry Fire fighters from fighting this fire, they need to be arrested and jailed for massive eco terrorism.
6 posted on 07/31/2002 8:34:53 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: All
Last nights NOAA Fire/Smoke image map:


7 posted on 07/31/2002 8:39:58 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: All
This is new re the fire threatening Agness which is upriver on the Rogue from Gold Beach.

Is there another fire or did the Florence Fire just rip along the Illinois river canyon where no logging and no fire maintence has been done for about a decade?

Meanwhile bulldozers began building a similar line on the north end of the fire to protect the community of Agness, a hub of whitewater rafting on the Rogue River.

The Eco Fascists need to lose their dangerous positions of power and be treated as potential Pyscho Killers. Just lock them up for being Criminally insane and dangersous to the rest of the Oregon population.

8 posted on 07/31/2002 8:45:10 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: All

9 posted on 07/31/2002 8:50:12 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
What is an WFU fire? (lost green complex)

EBUCK

10 posted on 07/31/2002 8:52:23 AM PDT by EBUCK
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To: EBUCK
I don't know what a WFU is. So far with all of the fires since May, not a single WFU incident has been reported.
11 posted on 07/31/2002 8:55:04 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
It's the Florence fire. http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/siskiyou/biscuitcomplex.html has a map showing the Florence and Biscuit fires. Rough country there in the Kalmiopsis wilderness.
12 posted on 07/31/2002 8:58:58 AM PDT by Granof8
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To: Grampa Dave; EBUCK
I missed the news here in Eureka so far and I will be taking my grandson (slave for the summer) to Costco soon. I

They had saved the Patricks Creek Lodge as of last nite. Did they save the Lodge at the Oregon Caves?

Is the road you mentioned yesterday the dirt road out of Obrien to Happy Camp?
13 posted on 07/31/2002 8:59:04 AM PDT by tubebender
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To: tubebender
They were still "saving" the caves area last I heard.

EBUCK

14 posted on 07/31/2002 9:00:31 AM PDT by EBUCK
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To: Grampa Dave
Grandpa Dave, How many members of the evil Sierra Club are there fighting the fires they helped get started? No, don't tell me! There are none? How can that be? They are tree huggers, so why are they not helping protect the trees? Have you noticed that the major news media have stopped reporting the fires? How curious!

Grandpa Paulus

15 posted on 07/31/2002 9:00:58 AM PDT by Paulus Invictus
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To: Grampa Dave
Thanks, Grampa Dave, for the update. Oregon is so near and dear to our family's heart. Our youngest grandchild was born in Eugene. We spent so much time in Florence. We're praying.
16 posted on 07/31/2002 9:06:11 AM PDT by FryingPan101
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To: Free the USA; Libertarianize the GOP; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Stand Watch Listen; freefly; expose; ...
ping
17 posted on 07/31/2002 9:11:44 AM PDT by madfly
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To: Granof8
Thanks for this link. This is their map and it was done on the 30th of July.

Looks like the ONRC Eco Fascists with their no logging, no roads and no brush removal agendas have resulted in the burning of a large part of the Kalmiopsis wilderness. May God and the Good people of Oregon dam them for this crime!

Why wasn't this fire named the Kalmiopsis Wilderness Fire instead of the miss leading Florence Fire. It has nothing to do with Florence, Oregon (at least at this time).

The pink panty wearing and ONRC card carrying Florist Workers in the Forestry Service probably didn't want the word out that the Kalmiopsis Wilderness was burning up.

Thanks again, and where do you live?

18 posted on 07/31/2002 9:12:47 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
Update on Oregon fires just on FOX.

17,000 ready to evacuate.

Fires have not merged yet.

Bosworth said environmentalists since the 60s have paralyzed forest management.

duh
19 posted on 07/31/2002 9:13:37 AM PDT by madfly
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To: madfly
BTTT!!!!!!
20 posted on 07/31/2002 9:14:19 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: tubebender
The same road.

Do they have a Costco in Eureka now?
21 posted on 07/31/2002 9:14:27 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
Dave...go to www.times-standard.com and click on the local news...click on the DelNorte County fire story.

OK, I'm admitting I'm a Digital Dumbie.:-o)
22 posted on 07/31/2002 9:15:04 AM PDT by tubebender
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To: Grampa Dave
As of Tuesday, July 30, Agness residents were on 30 minute standby for evacuation. There should be another update coming from the Sheriff, Forest Service and Emergency Services in a couple of hours. We drove from Eureka on Sunday, through ash fall from just N of Crescent City to S of Brookings.
23 posted on 07/31/2002 9:27:27 AM PDT by Granof8
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To: madfly
Bump!
24 posted on 07/31/2002 9:30:37 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: tubebender
Here is the story from the Eureka Standard. If you spot something just give me reply or free mail, and I will try to post it.

Article Last Updated:
Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 7:11:07 AM MST


Giant fire tearing up Del Norte County
By John Driscoll The Times-Standard


A huge wildfire that started in Oregon and burned into California this weekend has put residents in Gasquet and Hiouchi on evacuation alert and showered the Crescent City area with ash.

Nearly 16,000 acres have burned in California, and the blaze on the Oregon side of the border threatens power lines that serve 14,800 in Del Norte County. The Sour Biscuit fire had burned from the Major Moores area to within 4.5 miles of Gasquet on Tuesday, and progress toward containment of the fire was not known.

"If it weren't for the smoke, we could see it," said Judson Brohmer, owner of the Gasquet Market on U.S. Highway 199, which has been shut down by another smaller fire -- the Shelly Creek Fire -- only a few miles to the northwest.

The lightning-started fire burning in the Smith River National Recreation Area is part of a larger complex that totals 25,200 acres in California and Oregon and could join the 71,000-acre Florence Fire that has kept the entire Illinois Valley in southwestern Oregon on evacuation alert. That fire was sparked by lightning two weeks ago.

Rumors abound, as the fire initially handled by the U.S. Forest Service's Region 6 in Oregon was split into two fires with different authorities. The flow of information was such that news articles from various sources in the past two days didn't include information about the fire on the California side of the border, despite the acreage burned. The Forest Service's Region 5 is now handling the California portion of the blaze.

Jim Dodge, whose home is on the south side of the Smith River and is not immediately in danger, said that until Tuesday it was difficult to get reliable information. He also said that residents in the area have been calm and helpful.

"That's one of the great joys of living in a rural community to me," Dodge said.

The California Department of Forestry, the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs, the National Park Service, U.S. Bureau of Land Management and the Simpson Timber Co. are assisting the Forest Service and local fire crews on the fire.

Contrary to the rumors, Pacific Power and Light said that power outages are not imminent, but if firefighters requested the lines be shut down, they would be. The blaze threatens the lines on the Oregon side of the border, where the two lines are split. Only one is in danger so far, and power could be rerouted through the other line if the first is shut down.

The 200-acre Shelly Creek Fire, which started on Sunday, is only 3 miles from the Sour Biscuit Fire. The Shelly Creek Fire burned over Highway 199 Monday. It also forced the evacuation of Patrick Creek Lodge, Patrick Creek Campground, several residences and the Bar-O Boys Ranch for troubled youth.

The fire is only 30 percent contained, but the Forest Service hopes to have that fire contained by Saturday.

"That's just a hope as much as it is a prediction," said Matt Stephens, working in the fire information office in Gasquet, on Tuesday. Investigators have not determined how that fire was started.

Stephens said that local fire companies are working on protecting structures in the area while Forest Service firefighters are working in the backcountry fighting the blaze.

Del Norte County Supervisor Chuck Blackburn was disturbed at what he said was poor communication on the part of the Forest Service. Blackburn said he believes the fire was neglected when it crossed into California this weekend.

"I'm not a happy camper, and neither are the rest of us, with the lack of communication," Blackburn said. "We've had zilch up until a day ago."

Even the name of the Sour Biscuit Fire has proven slippery. It has been the Bisquit Fire, the Sourdough Fire and the Sourdough Biscuit Fire, even among official sources.

Shifting winds and difficult terrain have kept firefighters guessing, but winds are expected to die down some throughout the week. Ridge-top winds of 10 to 20 mph should die to 5 to 10 mph today. But nothing is certain.

"Even the direction of the wind is a little bit up in the air right now," said National Weather Service meteorologist Sten Tjaden.

There is a possibility that thunderstorms could move to the north this weekend, raising the possibility of lightning strikes in the area, which could spark fresh fires.

The Sour Biscuit Fire has burned much of the 28,000-acre North Fork Smith River Botanical Area, a place prized for its unique vegetation. Forest Service botanist Lisa Hoover said most of the rare plants in the area are associated with rocky soils or wetlands, and may not have been severely affected by the fire.

"I think the jury's still out," Hoover said.

Survey crews have not been able to get into the area to assess the potential damage, or benefit, of the fire. But Hoover suspects it probably burned in a mosaic.







25 posted on 07/31/2002 9:31:41 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave; tubebender; EBUCK; Archie Bunker on steroids
This is from the article that Tubebender cited:

Del Norte County Supervisor Chuck Blackburn was disturbed at what he said was poor communication on the part of the Forest Service. Blackburn said he believes the fire was neglected when it crossed into California this weekend.

"I'm not a happy camper, and neither are the rest of us, with the lack of communication," Blackburn said. "We've had zilch up until a day ago."

Again I raise the legitimate question of, "Were the Enviral contaminated Pink Panty Wearing Floristry Service maggots of the Forest Service was playing the enviral game of let it burn and not saying anything."

They did this in the fire that was a result of their agenda in 1999 about 100 miles south of this area. The result was a fire that burnt out of control from August 1999 until the fall rains put it out.

It appears that the Enviral contaminated Pink Panty Wearing Floristry Service maggots of the Forest Service put a cone of silence around all of these fires on the Oregon side and California side. Did they delay real fire fighting actions like using bull dozing and back fires as per the enviral agenda in fires?

26 posted on 07/31/2002 9:42:33 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
And how many homes could have been built and jobs created with the timber that is now going up in flames?
27 posted on 07/31/2002 9:49:52 AM PDT by connectthedots
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To: Granof8
Are you staying in Agness now?
28 posted on 07/31/2002 9:50:07 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: connectthedots
You posted, "And how many homes could have been built and jobs created with the timber that is now going up in flames?"


With your question, you have stumbled on to a real hidden agenda of the Elite Enviral Fascists. These uncontrolled fires beside being a great rural cleansing tool, prevents the use of any of those trees to built homes or create jobs.

Then only the lumber growing companies who contribute to these Green Nazis will really benefit when their tree farms don't burn up due to good forest management.
29 posted on 07/31/2002 9:54:14 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Paulus Invictus; EBUCK; WaterDragon; cake_crumb; BOBTHENAILER
I would like to see these 17,000 innocent victims drive to Ashland and drag Andy Kerr from his office buildings, then load him on a smoke jumping plane.

When they are over the flames, push him out with a parachute, an empty canteen and a hoe dag. If he survives, then arrest him for massive eco terrorism against the people of the Illinois River.

Then they should hunt up every present and past officer of the various ONRC elitist enviral organizations and all past and present board members of the ONRC. Grab the enviral poster boy governor of Oregon and treat all of them to a one way ride in smoke jumper planes. They get the same basic equipment, a parachute, an empty canteen and a hoe dag. Then use cattle prods to force them out and into perimeter of the fire. Then they can join up with their head Druid Pope, Andy Kerr to fight fires.

Then the group should round up every tree hugger and proud tree sitter in Oregon and do the same with them. Let them go hug a tree as it gets ready to blow up in a fire or fight the fires to see what their depraved tree religion has brought to the people of Oregon. Besure to include every damn enviralist professor, lawyer and judge in this group.

Then if any of them survive, they work on chain gangs to repay the losses due their agenda. They live in used REI tents in the burnt out areas, forage for food and beg for clothing. Have them guarded by unemployed loggers and those burnt out. The guards would have 12 gauge riot guns loaded with rock salt to use whenever they felt like it.

Brand a big GE on their foreheads so that if they escape, the people of Oregon will know that they are the Green Enviralist scumbags who burnt up Oregon in 2001/2002 via their agendas.
30 posted on 07/31/2002 10:07:23 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: All; Carry_Okie; Paulus Invictus; EBUCK; WaterDragon; cake_crumb; BOBTHENAILER; tubebender; ...
Here is a link to a current thread that explains what will happen after these fires are over.

The Eco Fascists and their lawyers will descend on the courts to ban any salvage logging of these dead trees. Their lawyers will get most of any funding to clear out these dead trees, (trees that are dead due to their florist service agendas in the forestry service).(link)

31 posted on 07/31/2002 10:18:47 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: madfly; All
I will add this to the next mass email ( and update of DUBOB 9 ) I send out...

If any of you reading this would like to receive these mass emails
( samples of what they are can be found near the end of
DUBOB 9-- even *more* tales from the Dark Underbelly of the Beast..... )
you need only send me your email addy via FReepmail, and I will add it to the group.

You can be removed later by request, naturally- I usually send a couple a day. Consult the time stamps on my updates at DUBOB 9 to gain an idea of how frequently they are transmitted.

32 posted on 07/31/2002 10:19:36 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: Grampa Dave; .45MAN; 4ConservativeJustices; 80sReaganite; Accountable One; agrandis; AJ504; ...
Calling Georgia members- here's a chance to turn this foolishness around.

There is no way on Earth the Eco side can come out looking good on the fire issue. Nothing better exposes their fradulent, human-hostile ideas than these wildfires, which are the direct result of their having been given far too much influence over national policy and the management of the people's land.

If you don't have a ping list, at least flag a couple of other members you know.

Send emails, write letters, call local talk radio- help get the word out across America.

33 posted on 07/31/2002 10:29:10 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: All
Fires burning on more than 423,000 acres across Oregon

The Associated Press
7/31/02 1:06 PM


Major wildfires were burning on more than 423,000 acres in Oregon on Tuesday. About 13,123 firefighters are working in the state. The Northwest Interagency Communication Center is tracking at least 15 major fires in Oregon. Top priorities for fire officials were the Florence fire, the Timbered Rock fire, the Cache Mountain fire, the Sheldon Ridge fire and the Sour Biscuit fire. So far, it has cost about $47 million to fight fires in Oregon this season.

That is 660 square miles that are either on fire or have burnt in Oregon. Imagine an area 33 miles by 20 miles that is either burning or has been burnt.



This is prime example of how the Green Eco Fascists can destroy a state, its economy and place thousands of people in harm's way.

These Green Eco Fascists need to be removed from power and treated as Insane Criminals intent on destroying those who live around them.
34 posted on 07/31/2002 10:30:18 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: backhoe
Thanks backhoe.

A lot of conservatives think that this will only happen out west.

Wrong, this will happen where ever the Greens have power to set up their agendas. Oregon and California are burning today, other states will be next if not this year, in future years.
35 posted on 07/31/2002 10:34:35 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Paulus Invictus; WaterDragon; cake_crumb; BOBTHENAILER; Grampa Dave
We could do that or we could ALL BUY STICKERS!!!!

Click on Picure

EBUCK

36 posted on 07/31/2002 10:37:23 AM PDT by EBUCK
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To: All; EBUCK; cake_crumb; sauropod; madfly; brityank; farmfriend; AAABEST; countrydummy; backhoe
This from this week's Brainstorm.com

Eco-Kamikazes Wanted






"Are you terminally ill with a wasting disease? Do you have AIDS, ALS, brain cancer, or syphilis? Don't go out with a whimper; go out with a bang! Undertake an eco-kamikaze mission.

"Yes, terminally ill Earth defenders can perform the ultimate act of Ecodefense while cheating the Grim Reaper of all the wasting and suffering that precedes these hideous, industrial age deaths.

"Seek martyrdom at Glen Canyon Dam. Blow up yourself and that monstrosity. Free the wild Colorado!"

If the invitation above, from the Earth First! Journal (September 22, 1989) is a bit more "freedom" than you'd like to experience, then maybe you'll be interested in the Green Anarchy Tour, a really big show coming to Portland and other points west.

Stop Eco-Violence, the west coast grassroots advocacy group that fights against environmental terrorism and eco-terror threats like the one above, warns that environmental activists, animal rights activists, and anarchists and terrorists of all stripes are coming to Portland and to Ashland, Oregon for this organized event. The tour hits Portland July 15 and Ashland July 17.

The mission of Stop Eco-Violence runs exactly contrary to the stated aims of the individuals and groups who will be meeting in Portland and Ashland as part of the Green Anarchy Tour. The tour runs through July and August in many western cities from Seattle to Houston. Hang on to your hats Portlanders. Here's a look at what to expect straight from the Tour's website:

"The Green Anarchy Tour is an attempt to bridge the gap between the punk movement, the revolutionary anarchist movement, the ecological movement, and the prisoners of war that have been incarcerated for their involvement in the struggles listed above.

"The majority of the content encompassed (sic) on this tour is from Eugene, an outpost of civilization in one of the most wild bioregions in "north america." Eugene experienced the spirit of wild chaos during a couple years of insurrection. In the aftermath, several comrades were imprisoned, several collectives endured, and what remains today is one of the most sophisticated propaganda mills in history.

"The tragedy of this historic propaganda mill is the geographic limit of it's (sic) reach. While many attempts have been made to present the critique and analysis developed in Eugene, they have not peaked outside of this locale. The Green Anarchy Tour will be an attempt to take the tools we have refined, the tools of resistance, to a new scale.

"Through the media of slides, videos, spoken word, and music, we will share our perspective to comrades across turtle island in what may very well be one of the last state-permitted summers of 'above ground organizing.' We understand that time is running out, for us and for the earth, and thus we will take our words, ideas, music, and spirit on the snakes of concrete, the civilized transportation infrastructure to various movements in america."

But for the more serious eco-terrorist who eschews fun and good times, the first invitation from Earth First! Journal is still open:
"To those feeling suicidal: this may be an answer to your dreams. If you are determined to end it all, don't slink off to some garage and intensify acid rain and the greenhouse effect by CO poisoning. Don't jump off a bridge--blow up the bridge! Who says you can't take it with you?"

Unfortunately, and as we have been reminded in recent weeks, not all terrorism threats come from outside the country.

For more information about Stop Eco-Violence visit their website: www.stopecoviolence.com
37 posted on 07/31/2002 10:42:16 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: All; backhoe; madfly; farmfriend; Shermy; Ernest_at_the_Beach; AAABEST; sauropod; countrydummy; ...

Link to Stop Eco Violence: (Stop Eco Violence)


38 posted on 07/31/2002 10:53:49 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
Yah, they look all tough with their little jonny-jihad ski masks on. Let's se them attempt to strong arm some of the folks in my area. Armed to the teeth and usually pretty well sauced up. Jackasses are in for their last surprise, and soon.

EBUCK

39 posted on 07/31/2002 10:58:54 AM PDT by EBUCK
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To: Grampa Dave
Let's link it:

-stopecoviolence.com--

I really believe that most normal Americans would be repulsed by this extremism if they were made aware of it.

40 posted on 07/31/2002 11:00:10 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: backhoe
Unfortunately, a very large percentage of Oregonians in Portland, Eugene, Ashland, Salem and the University cities worship these eco terrorists. Their governor has kept any real police work from putting those living in Eugene and Portland and burning from there into jail.

If a survey was held in these cities right now with the present fire damage and potential damage, the Green Mushheads would out number those against the Green Agendas.

However, being the guy who never gives up the battle with these eco terrorist thugs, here is that link again: (Stop Eco Violence)

41 posted on 07/31/2002 11:13:42 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: All
Timber Sale Ends in Two Arrests
07/31/2002

Associated Press


There was pepper spray and two arrests yesterday but a Stayton logging company was the apparent high bidder for the rights to log about 160 acres on the Mount Hood National Forest.


Pro-forest activists told the Thomas Creek Lumber and Log Company they will fight any attempt to log the Solo timber sale.


The Cascadia Forest Alliance says it has already put anti-logging activists in a tree-sit platform in a 400-year-old Douglas fir in the Solo site.


Yesterday's protest began when activists gathered in Sandy where the auction was held.


When Thomas Creek President Brent Walker went to his car, police say protesters blocked his path.


Someone threw a bottle that hit one officer while a protester aimed a can of pepper spray at police.


Clackamas County deputies then sprayed the crowd with pepper spray. Two protesters were cited for disorderly conduct.



Time to clear the Oregon/USA of these violent eco terrorists~~!

With all of the fires in Oregon now due to these Green Scumbags, they still would prefer a tree to burn than be logged and used.

There is no room in a productive society for these criminally insane whackos to be wandering around committing acts of violence.

Their arrogance while Oregon is burning shows the complete break with reality and zero compassion for their fellow Oregonians. Round them up! Lock them up and throw away the keys. Or put them to work to pay for their cost to society by working on chain gangs. Let unemployed loggers and those burnt out get paid to watch them with riot guns loaded with rock salt and permission to "Salt Away" whenever!

42 posted on 07/31/2002 11:29:13 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: EBUCK; Grampa Dave
What is a WFU fire?

a WFU is a Wildland Use Fire, and appears to be a natural "good" fire... from www.fs.fed.us


43 posted on 07/31/2002 11:32:00 AM PDT by glock rocks
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To: glock rocks
Thanks Glock Rocks!

EBUCK

44 posted on 07/31/2002 11:41:49 AM PDT by EBUCK
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To: glock rocks
Thanks!

How about posting on these threads what's happening Redford, USA, the former State of Utah re Redford fires.
45 posted on 07/31/2002 11:49:11 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: backhoe
It's amazing that these eco-whaco's would let humans die before letting someone burn the underbrush.
46 posted on 07/31/2002 11:51:09 AM PDT by HELLRAISER II
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To: Granof8; tubebender; marsh2; forester; All
Here is the latest fire map from the Siskiyou Forestry Service, Gold Beach, Oregon.

Tubebender it looks like the Florist Service part of the Forestry Service has not been telling us the size of the Biscuit Fire in California!


47 posted on 07/31/2002 11:55:12 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
"From this report it does not appear that the two fires have merged."

Well, no, it doesn't appear that way, after all...yet. I don't like those containment numbers for the Florence, Sour Biscuit and Timber Rock fires. Doesn't look real good right now.

Still praying. Apparently not hard enough.

48 posted on 07/31/2002 11:55:21 AM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: Grampa Dave
right now, the last three major wildfires in utah are in the 90% controlled stage, due to the efforts
of the heroes manning the lines and flying the drops, and the grace of the Lord above.

utah is a tinderbox, and only our current lack of lightning (and stupid people burning love letters) is keeping us from oregons fate.

the severe drought continues... stay tuned.

49 posted on 07/31/2002 11:57:25 AM PDT by glock rocks
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To: Grampa Dave
I bet our boys are kicking up some dust in that isthmus. If these two combine we'll just have to let them burn out on their own I'd imagine.

EBUCK

50 posted on 07/31/2002 12:04:28 PM PDT by EBUCK
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