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Congress Targets Tax Havens (Republicans Betray Their Principles - again)
Washington Post ^ | July 30, 2002 | Juliet Eilperin and Jonathan Weisman

Posted on 07/31/2002 7:38:31 PM PDT by Action-America

Edited on 07/31/2002 7:47:36 PM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]

With major corporate responsibility legislation passed, elected officials are turning to a new target -- business tax evaders -- in a scramble to convince voters they are cracking down on corporate wrongdoing.

Senate hearings today will touch on the topic, but House members got a head start last week. First, they overwhelmingly approved a corporate responsibility bill drafted largely by Senate Democrats. Then, while debating a less-noticed provision in the president's homeland security proposal, 110 Republican members defied their party's leaders to confront another brand of questionable corporate behavior: companies locating overseas to escape U.S. taxes.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: axixofevil; capitalflight; expatriate; expatriation; haven; republicans; tax; taxreform
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1 posted on 07/31/2002 7:38:31 PM PDT by Action-America
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: Action-America
So tax evasion is a principle?
3 posted on 07/31/2002 7:45:23 PM PDT by Huck
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To: Action-America
I believe in the freedom of companies to locate offshore to escape our onerous taxes. I also believe if they government wants to exclude them from federal contracts, that works too. The best thing would be to lower taxes, but these are Republicans and Democrats we're dealing with here.
4 posted on 07/31/2002 7:45:29 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: *Taxreform; Bigun; pigdog; Principled; The Raven; TheCPA; EternalVigilance; ancient_geezer; ...
Heads Up!

 

5 posted on 07/31/2002 7:51:58 PM PDT by Action-America
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To: Action-America
Hey Whitewashed Postings, it isn't tax evasion if it's LEGAL..

It's tax AVOIDANCE; you know, what every taxpayer and business legally does.

Suggestion to Whitewashed Postings owners to avoid the appearance of hypocricy: call your corporate auditors and tell them you'd like to stop avoiding taxes, claim no business expenses, and pay the maximum taxes possible. With luck, you morons will be out of business in a year.

6 posted on 07/31/2002 7:52:39 PM PDT by Semi Civil Servant
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To: one_particular_harbour
And how do they plan to ENFORCE what they pass?

I hope it has some real teeth to it.
Odds are good that many of these scams are also involved in laundering of illegal drug money.
For all the money that's involved, there really hasn't been any BIG exposé of corrupt money laundering, bribery, etc. etc.
You know it's gotta be there, but they only fry the little fish.

7 posted on 07/31/2002 8:02:54 PM PDT by Willie Green
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To: Action-America
Let me put an Al Davis spin on this, if congress tries this. ATLAS SHRUGGED BABY, ATLAS SHRUGGED!!!And with the possibility of a hemisphere free trade zone, coming soon, the congress is pushing economic Jonestown Kool-Aid!
8 posted on 07/31/2002 8:04:13 PM PDT by mlibertarianj
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To: Huck
Fighting unreasonable taxes was the principle upon which this very country was founded.
9 posted on 07/31/2002 8:04:54 PM PDT by fogarty
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To: one_particular_harbour

And how do they plan to ENFORCE what they pass?

You have hit upon the real problem with this legislation.  If they try to enforce this and other wealth punitive legislation, these wealthy corporations will be forced to take the bulk of their operation offshore, including jobs.  Then how will the responsibility dodging Republicans that vote for this tripe respond?  I can hear them now, "I really didn't want to trash the US economy, but I feared for my reelection more than the economy."  Selfish b@$+@#d$.

 

10 posted on 07/31/2002 8:07:09 PM PDT by Action-America
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To: Huck
So tax evasion is a principle?

Minimizing one's tax liability using legal means isn't "tax evasion". It's common sense.

11 posted on 07/31/2002 8:07:41 PM PDT by Principled
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To: fogarty
Unreasonable taxes? Why are they avoiding paying any taxes here in the US? And they expect a tax rebate? Tax havens are an anathema to every citizen who pays taxes! They are passing the tax burden to investors and buyers. Scum in my book...
12 posted on 07/31/2002 8:11:56 PM PDT by Madame de Winter
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To: Madame de Winter
If taxes were not unreasonable they wouldn't be moving offshore! Until the government learns that taxes are TOO DAMN high, then we will continue to lose corporations offshore.

The colonies rebelled over less than a 4% tax rate on stamps. Don't you think that what we pay nowadays (over 40%) is a little unreasonable? If not, then you can take your socialist wasteland and keep it.

13 posted on 07/31/2002 8:14:30 PM PDT by fogarty
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To: Willie Green
Odds are good that many of these scams are also involved in laundering of illegal drug money.

Note to William- minimizing tax using legal means does not make a "scam".

Why do you assume than "many" entities which choose to minimize their tax liabilility using legal means are involved in money laundering and drugs?

Hell I don't know one person who doesn't minimize their taxes. I'm damn sure "many" of them aren't drug lords!!!

14 posted on 07/31/2002 8:14:30 PM PDT by Principled
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To: mlibertarianj
...the congress is pushing economic Jonestown Kool-Aid!

This, mlibertarianj, bears repeating:

...the congress is pushing economic Jonestown Kool-Aid!

15 posted on 07/31/2002 8:15:49 PM PDT by Principled
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To: *Taxreform; Bigun; pigdog; Principled; The Raven; TheCPA; EternalVigilance; ancient_geezer; ...
The following quote from the above article says it all:

GOP pollster Glen Bolger said it made sense that lawmakers would dodge a tough vote when given the opportunity.

In fact, that seems to be all that most elected Republicans do any more - just dodge tough votes.  Apparently, many House Republicans have been attending the DUH-bya School of Political Dodging, in that they:

This article demonstrates that it's time that we start electing new Republicans, because the ones in power today (including DUH-bya) d@#n sure aren't doing the job.

 

16 posted on 07/31/2002 8:20:23 PM PDT by Action-America
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To: Action-America
If they try to enforce this and other wealth punitive legislation, these wealthy corporations will be forced to take the bulk of their operation offshore, including jobs.

Good. The corporate Taliban who have renounced their U.S. citizenship because they're tax deadbeats can seek refuge in Pakistan for all I care.
We can raise our tariffs and lower our domestic corporate income tax and bestow the blessings of our Constitutional free market to those who are proud to be American.

17 posted on 07/31/2002 8:22:36 PM PDT by Willie Green
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To: Principled
Why do you assume than "many" entities which choose to minimize their tax liabilility using legal means are involved in money laundering and drugs?

Because they consistanly relocate to the "tax havens" utilized by the money launderers because the banking laws are lax.
Birds of a feather, flock together.

18 posted on 07/31/2002 8:26:20 PM PDT by Willie Green
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To: Madame de Winter
Unreasonable taxes?

YES! I think so! I would be interested in knowing what you feel is a reasonable tax. 40%? 35%? what?

Why are they avoiding paying any taxes here in the US?

They aren't avoiding all taxes, they're minimizing what they pay in tax. Why in the world would a business pay 15 times as much for office supplies if it could get the same product for far less? It seems rather odd that you would not understand this.

And they expect a tax rebate?

No, they don't. The rebate was for individuals, not business. Further, the amount of that rebate was trivial to the businesses in this context.

Tax havens are an anathema to every citizen who pays taxes!

I would like to know why you think this.

If you had a choice of living on one side of a street that had $1500 monthly property tax bills or across the street with exact same amenities with a $100 tax bill, which would you choose? How is this any different that the situation in the article?

19 posted on 07/31/2002 8:28:38 PM PDT by Principled
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To: Action-America
For years the politicians have been negotiating tax treaties with other countries to stop people from leaving the US's tax system.

There have been some hold-outs. But, I hate to think what it would be like if the entire world was subject to the same tax rate.....taxes would increase and we would never see any breaks from big government.

Perhaps this is why Cuba is still closed. Hmmmmm....
20 posted on 07/31/2002 8:33:03 PM PDT by gortklattu
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To: Willie Green
Birds of a feather, flock together.

Yes, this is William's anectdotal evidence that all those who minimize their tax burden legally are actually drug lords laundering money.

LOL

21 posted on 07/31/2002 8:33:27 PM PDT by Principled
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To: gortklattu
Perhaps this is why Cuba is still closed. Hmmmmm....

Costa Rica is a very nice place with small, limited government and low taxes.

22 posted on 07/31/2002 8:35:21 PM PDT by Principled
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To: Willie Green
We can raise our tariffs...

free market...

Not a very consistent statement, to say the least.

Cutting domestic corporate taxes I agree with, however.

23 posted on 07/31/2002 8:36:51 PM PDT by Republican Wildcat
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To: Madame de Winter

They are passing the tax burden to investors and buyers.

Duh?

The income tax that corporations pay is already passed on to buyers and investors in the prices that you pay for products and reductions in dividends.  It is also passed on to employees in the form of lower wages.  When companies nominally move offshore, they become more competitive with their foreign counterparts and are able to offer more competitive prices, higher dividends and better wages for the jobs that, it should be noted, stay here.

But, if the Democrats and Republicans in Congress have their way, those companies and more will be forced to move the bulk of their operations offshore, jobs and all.  Then, the tax burden will really go up, because there will be a lot more people out of work and off the tax rolls, that will have to be supported by those who still have jobs.

Congress can't even balance their own books.  They certainly have no business trying to tell successful companies how to run their business.  It's time that we replace about 3/4 of the pseudo-Republicans in Congress with real Republicans.

Note:  With one exception (Kay Bailey Hutchison), I have personally not voted for a single Republican incumbent (above county level) in GOP primaries, for more than 10 years.  Just for the record, I have no intention of voting for Kay Bailey Hutchison in future primaries.

 

24 posted on 07/31/2002 8:47:16 PM PDT by Action-America
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To: Principled
I believe that the nation of Belize is also a good tax haven, good enough for one of the Dart family( the makers of paper cups) to renounce his U.S. citizenship. There are Carribean nations that make good money of internet gambling, tax shelters will be the big jackpot, if this thing comes to fruition.
25 posted on 07/31/2002 8:54:48 PM PDT by mlibertarianj
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To: Action-America

With major corporate responsibility legislation passed, elected officials are turning to a new target -- business tax evaders -- in a scramble to convince voters they are cracking down on corporate wrongdoing.

"Congress is rushing to pass a bill outlawing corporate fraud. If they really want to outlaw fraud, maybe they should just pass a bill outlawing Congress."

Here's just one example of what taxpayers money is used for.

"If drugs make you stupid what does that say about someone who declares war on them, inanimate objects that they are, and is losing?"

 It's a war against people.

Tom Daschle, Libdem/Chicom-S.D., said Tuesday the issue was one of patriotism with the Sept. 11 anniversary approaching. Democrats Take on Tax Havens Issue (projectile hurl warning...)

Yeah right, that's the ticket. ;^)

Republicans are scrambling for a response to U.S. companies moving their headquarters to foreign tax havens after Democrats scored political points with voters by painting the exodus as yet another example of corporate irresponsibility. Democrats Take on Tax Havens Issue (projectile hurl warning...)

Fortunately the job creators and market providers chose only to move the books offshore and not the jobs and manufacturing. How long until the U.S. government makes it such a competitive disadvantage that businesses move their entire operations offshore?

Two articles from which I quote a few paragraphs from. Both are from Action America.

US Taxpatriates
Compiled by the Internal Revenue Service
http://www.actionamerica.org/taxecon/taxpats.html

The following links are to the US Government's official lists of Taxpatriates, as compiled quarterly by the IRS, required under 26 USC 877(a)(1). Under this law, the people on this list may be taxed for ten years after they renounced their citizenship. Furthermore. under 8 USC 1182(a)(10)(E)), these persons may not be allowed back into the US for any reason.

* * *

The Privacy Factor
Yet Another Reason Why The
Wealthy Are Leaving The USA
http://www.actionamerica.org/taxecon/privfactor.html

Every time another millionaire leaves the United States, the US tax base is reduced proportionately and the remaining taxpayers take another small hit. It is the total of all of those small hits that makes this issue significant. But, there is a side to this issue, in which each expatriation is much more significant and that could be potentially much more devastating. I'm not talking about just the wealthy any more. I'm talking about the super-wealthy. BILLIONAIRES!...

...In the discussion that followed, a whole new light began to shine. This billionaire, who I have reason to believe would rank in the top 100, of the 538 billionaires on the Forbes World's Richest People list, was not on the list at all, because of one reason. He chooses not to be. He chooses PRIVACY. But, as he pointed out to me, that would not be enough, if he were still a US citizen....

...As a US citizen, he would have to report to the IRS annually, ALL of his worldwide earnings, regardless of where in the world the income was generated or where it was banked. That would mean that ALL of the financial information necessary to trace his net worth would be accessible in one place. Years ago, as his net worth approached the level that would have placed him on the Forbes 400 Richest Americans list, he found that scenario to be unacceptable; hence, expatriation. Are you beginning to see where this is leading?...

...The point is, that beyond fear of the IRS and their confiscatory powers, the super wealthy have a far more powerful reason for choosing expatriation - their desire for Personal Privacy....

Foreign Wealth is Leaving Too

...It gets even worse. Because of the IRS implementation, earlier this year, of "Qualified Intermediary" (QI) Regulations, privacy concerned foreign billionaires (and millionaires), who have until recently been responsible for large amounts of foreign investment in the United States, are now moving their investments to more "private" jurisdictions, as well. The reason is simple. The QI Regulations require foreign financial institutions who invest client money in the United States to reveal the true identity of individual investors or lose the right to serve as a "Qualified Intermediary" for US investments. Those billionaires (and millionaires) who want to preserve their privacy are just directing those financial institutions to invest their money elsewhere....

...So now, not only is the IRS driving privacy concerned US billionaires out of the United States, with all of their investment capital and tax base, but they are driving privacy concerned foreign billionaires (and millionaires) to invest their wealth offshore, as well. In today's market, there are many other places where the wealthy can invest their money for a similar risk and return, without having to sacrifice their privacy as part of the price.


26 posted on 07/31/2002 8:55:51 PM PDT by Zon
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To: Republican Wildcat
Not a very consistent statement, to say the least.

Sure it is. Although it doesn't specify an economic system per se, our Founders essentially designed a wonderous free market when they drew up the Constitution. Free Trade among the several states who were signatories to the Constitution, bound by a common set of rules, regulations and currency. The Founders considered the tariff to be the least intrusive form of taxation, applicable only to those wishing dependence on foreign goods. Domesticly, Americans were free to enjoy the blessings of their own resources and hard labor, subject to neither income nor sales tax.

It is unconscionable to extend the blessings of our domestic free market to foreign entities not bound by the same set of rules and regulations established by our Constitution to the detriment of our own citizenry.

27 posted on 07/31/2002 9:10:01 PM PDT by Willie Green
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To: Action-America
Pardon me A-A that is lamest excuse I ever heard!

If an American Company moves off-shore to be more competitive as an US compampny defies logic. The fact they do it to avoid tax US taxes is almost treasonous.

As investor you will pay some Capital gains tax. As worker in those companies you pay an income tax. That all goes in to the coffers to pay for what we demand as tax payers.

Honestly that could be guns or butter, you decide!

So if we pay at the counter or we pay at at April 15th that's ok with you?

My own personal exerience is at the last investment bank where I worked before the lay off. I had a 2 millions infrastructure that project that got canceled. Subsequently they laid of several hundred people: co-workers. Well I made the second round with a few more co-workers. Guess what? The CEO is in a law suit for getting 18 million more than the parent company thought he should get. Well that could of kept a few of us at work.

I hope he gets the shit taxed out him right now!!!!!









28 posted on 07/31/2002 9:16:45 PM PDT by Madame de Winter
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To: mlibertarianj
tax shelters will be the big jackpot, if this thing comes to fruition.

Protecting one's assets is already the jackpot in Costa Rica. They just LOVE wealth to relocate there.

29 posted on 07/31/2002 9:24:31 PM PDT by Principled
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To: Madame de Winter
If an American Company moves off-shore to be more competitive as an US compampny defies logic. The fact they do it to avoid tax US taxes is almost treasonous.

They're only moving their books offshore. It makes them more competitive because it allows them to lower prices, increase return on investment, or raise wages. That is purely logical.

Do you minimize your taxes, or do you just pay willy nilly extra when you don't have to? You see, minimizing your tax bill is not "treasonous", it's just stupid not to do so.

No company can stay in business if it doesn't take advantage of every opportunity to save costs. Why do you spite those who choose to keep their company alive? Dead companies pay zero tax and provide zero jobs.

US companies compete with foreign companies, obviously. But foreign companies don't have the cost of income taxes built into their goods as US goods have. This makes it impossible for US companies to compete. To stay alive, they MUST reduce costs where possible. It is legal and possible to minimize tax as these companies have done, so at least they're still in business providing US jobs!

30 posted on 07/31/2002 9:36:04 PM PDT by Principled
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To: Willie Green
"I hope it has some real teeth to it. Odds are good that many of these scams are also involved in laundering of illegal drug money."

Willie, Stanley Works, et al, aren't involved in laundering illegal drug money. What they are actually doing is avoiding having to pay US corporate taxes on income that was earned overseas -- and already taxed there.

The US is one of the few countries that indulges in the taxation of profits earned in foreign countries. And that is clearly a very good reason to move the corporate headquarters overseas -- to a PO Box in Bermuda.

There are no jobs being transferred overseas by corporations doing this, Willie. But there will be jobs lost in the US if the IRS continues to tax profits already taxed in foreign countries.

The very best solution to the entire contretemps is to eliminate the corporate taxation altogether!

31 posted on 07/31/2002 9:40:55 PM PDT by okie01
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To: Willie Green
"We can raise our tariffs and lower our domestic corporate income tax and bestow the blessings of our Constitutional free market to those who are proud to be American."

If they had any interest in doing that, it would already be done. Instead they are spending as if money flowed out of the wind like dust. The real scam artists and theives are the politicians that gain their office from the greedy folks that look for what's in it for them on election day. More government programs, more government employees, more govm'nt studies, more govm'nt controls, restrictions and protections of favored business, all this is in direct competition with Freedom and the Free market you suppose this govm't monster would set free.

The growth of the federal govm't is exploding, along with state and locals. They even coined the term "homeland" to refer to the United States. That's because their tentacles are far reaching and they have global designs in mind. The folks locating overseas are just trying to escape, because they sure aren't going to get tax relief here, unless they're politically favored. What they're trying to escape from isn't a Free market, it's a market infested with parasites and scam artists.

32 posted on 07/31/2002 9:53:52 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: Principled
They're only moving their books offshore. It makes them more competitive because it allows them to lower prices, increase return on investment, or raise wages. That is purely logical. Yes they are more competitive becuase they are not paying any taxes to the US. If they are raising wages, please tell me what is the compariosn, Tawiwan? You see, minimizing your tax bill is not "treasonous", it's just stupid not to do so. Your'e right lets use the rules to the best of our advantage, If it's not illegal doesn't mean it isn't immoral. But foreign companies don't have the cost of income taxes built into their goods as US goods have. This makes it impossible for US companies to compete. Are you sure? That's why we have anti-dumpimpig disputes all the time. So much for free trade unless we are the free traders...
33 posted on 07/31/2002 10:05:40 PM PDT by Madame de Winter
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To: Madame de Winter
You feel strongly on this issue - good. I urge you to do some reading.
34 posted on 07/31/2002 10:07:47 PM PDT by Principled
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To: Action-America
There's a simple solution. If they don't want to pay US taxes to help pay for the benefits of doing business here, remove those benefits. No police protection, no fire protection, no roads, sewers, electricity. Extend it to corporate officers along with the business itself.
35 posted on 07/31/2002 10:09:53 PM PDT by mykej
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To: okie01; *Taxreform
You said it, and it bears repeating: "The very best solution to the entire contretemps is to eliminate the corporate taxation altogether!

That is a good start, okie01, but doesn't go far enough: The US Tax code needs to be scrapped altogether, and a new one written.

The new US Tax Code should encourage, not punish, work, savings and investment in America, and should eliminate, totally, any smidgen of the class warfare, greed, and envy politics that infests the current code.

Instead of trying to devise artificial ways to punish companies and individuals seeking to maximize their profits and earnings, the Congress should write a simple, fair and easy to administer tax code that encourages and rewards those who want to work, save and invest.

From 1787 until 1913, we had such a code. And the country prospered. Since 1913, the US has had a progressive income tax, and the only segment of the country that has really prospered since then is the government, and those who have friends in high places.

Ayn Rand's prediction that the looters, and their friends, those who have the "power of pull," would take control of the country was very prescient.

We can do something about it -- i.e., run their slimy asses out of power, but it is almost too late.

If you'd like more information about a FReedom based solution which encourages and rewards economic growth and treats all of us with equality under the law, check this link and this link.

“I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.” [Thomas Jefferson, letter to Benjamin Rush, 1800.]

Scrap the Code! Scrap the IRS! Abolish the VLWC!

We will never be a truly FRee people so long as we have the income tax and the IRS.

Click here to help us scrap the Code, scrap the IRS and abolish the VLWC!

You can also click here to find out how to help us replace the income tax with a National Retail Sales Tax and abolish the IRS!

We will never be a truly FRee people so long as we have the income tax and the IRS.

36 posted on 07/31/2002 10:41:45 PM PDT by Taxman
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To: Madame de Winter

If an American Company moves off-shore to be more competitive as an US compampny defies logic. The fact they do it to avoid tax US taxes is almost treasonous.

Your lack of understanding of how business works is exceeded only by your understanding of what comprises treason.

First, it is the avoidance of excessive US taxes that allows these expatriating companies to be more competitive with their foreign counterparts.  In many cases, it's either that, or eventually be bought out by their more profitable foreign competitors, who do not face such oppressive taxes.  After all, our corporate tax rate is one of the highest in the world and the US is one of the very few countries that taxes offshore income.

So, in effect, our lawmakers are forcing our largest companies offshore, either through expatriation or sale to foreign entities.  Expatriation makes for a more profitable US company and keeps jobs here.  Sale to a foreign entity will, in most cases, mean the loss of US jobs.

Second, as for your ridiculous reference to treason, you should keep in mind that the companies that we are talking about are multinational companies with a multinational shareholder base.  In fact, it is entirely possible that some of those companies may have more foreign shareholders than US shareholders.  To commit treason, you must first be a citizen of the country against which the crime is to be committed.  But a company is not a citizen, as it doesn't vote and it can't hold office.  In fact, the only thing that makes a company a US company, is that at the time of incorporation, the US was the most beneficial jurisdiction to incorporate in (just like companies tend to incorporate in Wyoming and Nevada, more than in New York and California, even if they do most of their business in one of those other states).

If US laws change and make it undesirable for these corporations to maintain their US incorporation, and the multinational shareholders vote to move that incorporation or even the whole company, the only thing that could be remotely considered treasonous, is the inept actions of the lawmakers who are creating the conditions that will eventually lead to US economic collapse, if those conditions are not soon reversed.

That's why it is so important to replace most of them (from both parties), with (hopefully) Republicans of integrity and the courage to stand up for their principles.

 

37 posted on 07/31/2002 11:17:29 PM PDT by Action-America
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To: fogarty
Fighting unreasonable taxes was the principle upon which this very country was founded.

The principle was no taxation without representation. We have representation.

38 posted on 08/01/2002 3:22:44 AM PDT by Huck
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To: Huck
You're completely wrong if you believe we have adequate representation for the amount (more than 40% and counting) of taxes we pay.

Have you ever tried even getting in contact with a single US Senator to make your voice heard? We are paying literally hundreds if not thousands of times more of our income to the government than the colonies EVER did. And we have about the same amount of power over the legislature that they did. I'd say we are NOT represented at all now - we are overtaxed at a burden that would have caused a second Revolution if the founding fathers were living today.

39 posted on 08/01/2002 6:36:21 AM PDT by fogarty
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To: Action-America
If US laws change and make it undesirable for these corporations to maintain their US incorporation, and the multinational shareholders vote to move that incorporation or even the whole company, the only thing that could be remotely considered treasonous, is the inept actions of the lawmakers who are creating the conditions that will eventually lead to US economic collapse, if those conditions are not soon reversed.

Excellent point. It is astonishing to me that freepers are justifying all manner of federal bloat and expansion (insanely high taxes, vast encroachments on property rights, etc) all in the name of "the war on terror". One day, perhaps, these same freepers will justify the arrest and imprisonment of Christians, pro-life demonstraters, and gun-owners as necessary 'due to the war on terror'.

40 posted on 08/01/2002 6:40:31 AM PDT by fogarty
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To: okie01
The very best solution to the entire contretemps is to eliminate the corporate taxation altogether!

I agree. Even proposed a way to do it over two years ago: A Proposal to Abolish the Corporate Income Tax

Trouble is, the globalist NRST flying monkeys don't like tariffs. They prefer smothering American consumers with a whopping 30% sales tax.

41 posted on 08/01/2002 7:11:50 AM PDT by Willie Green
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To: Action-America
bttt
42 posted on 08/01/2002 7:44:32 AM PDT by Free the USA
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To: Action-America; Madame de Winter
But, if the Democrats and Republicans in Congress have their way, those companies

...will pay more to support their socialist schemes and will work work for the government first and employees and investors second.

43 posted on 08/01/2002 7:53:02 AM PDT by StriperSniper
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To: StriperSniper

But, if the Democrats and Republicans in Congress have their way, those companies

...will pay more to support their socialist schemes and will work work for the government first and employees and investors second.

Indeed, those non-multinational companies that don't have enough foreign business to allow them to leave, will end up working for the government first and the investors and employees will take a back seat.  Furthermore, if it is allowed to continue, the investors and employees will end up working for the government, as well.

With the help of many of the Republicans in Congress (and the Whitehouse), the socialists are winning.  It's time to dump about 3/4 of the Republican and all of the Democrat incumbents and replace them with true conservative Republicans, Libertarians or true conservative Democrats (hey, in some districts, you can't get elected unless you are a Democrat).

But, one fact is indisputable.  The entrenched politicos that are in power today aren't cuttin' it.

 

44 posted on 08/01/2002 10:09:36 AM PDT by Action-America
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To: Huck
If Republicans are going to stand for 'open borders' to let the dregs in, they have to leave the doors open for people and capital to get out. While libertarians foolishly only talk about the bottom end of immigration, the real key to defunding leviathan is letting capital flow out freely.
45 posted on 08/01/2002 10:13:40 AM PDT by JohnGalt
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To: mykej

No police protection, no fire protection, no roads, sewers, electricity. Extend it to corporate officers along with the business itself.

Yeah, right!  Drive the jobs overseas.  That's real bright.

 

46 posted on 08/01/2002 10:15:00 AM PDT by Action-America
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To: Action-America
I'd vote for Traficant! His ACU rating skyrocketed in the last few years.
47 posted on 08/01/2002 10:16:04 AM PDT by StriperSniper
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To: Action-America
"Yeah, right! Drive the jobs overseas. That's real bright"

They can't give up the US market. How long do you think their US warehouses would remain standing?

48 posted on 08/01/2002 1:05:14 PM PDT by mykej
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To: Willie Green
You know, Willie, a tariff is a tax. You are dreaming if you think the US can run on tariffs and excises, a la 1789.

For one thing, whenever a tariff is imposed on imported goods, domestic goods of like kind increase in price almost as much as the amount of the tariff.

The result? Foreign goods increase in price and so do domestic goods.

Look what happened when the President imposed a 30% steel tariff recently; it is my understanding that foreign and domestic steel prices increased 30%!

Nobody wins under that scenario: Steel workers have lost their jobs because of the tariff, and businesses that use steel are not buying as much. Consumers lose because the price of products that use steel increases. Manufacturing companies lose because the price of their products goes up and sales/profits go down. Tariffs are a "no win" situation.

Tariffs are a dumb, dumb idea, doing far more harm than good.

The best way to fund the legitimate activities of our government is with a consumption tax. FRee trade, is after all, supposed to eliminate tariffs in their entirety.

If the US continues towards the stated objective of lowering trade barriers by eliminating tariffs, and keeps the stupid progressive income tax, foreign goods will be sold, for all intents and purposes, tax free in America.

To a large extent, our present tax and tariff laws severely disadvantage US businesses at home and abroad relative to their foreign competition. But tariffs are not the way to fix that problem.

The only viable alternative, which truly levels the playing field among manufacturers in a world trade environment where there is FRee and Fair trade between nations is a territorial border adjustable consumption tax.

And the best territorial border adjustable consumption tax is the National Retail Sales Tax.

BTW, who introduced your proposal to abolish the corporate income tax into the US House of Representatives, and what was the bill number?

FWIW, I agree with you on the first part of your proposal: Let's repeal the corporate income tax. But it should be replaced with nothing. Talk about "jump starting" the economy!

“I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.” [Thomas Jefferson, letter to Benjamin Rush, 1800.]

Scrap the Code! Scrap the IRS! Abolish the VLWC!

We will never be a truly FRee people so long as we have the income tax and the IRS.

Click here to help us scrap the Code, scrap the IRS and abolish the VLWC!

You can also click here to find out how to help us replace the income tax with a National Retail Sales Tax and abolish the IRS!

We will never be a truly FRee people so long as we have the income tax and the IRS.

49 posted on 08/01/2002 3:12:42 PM PDT by Taxman
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To: mykej

They can't give up the US market. How long do you think their US warehouses would remain standing?

Think again.

There are two points that you ignore.

1)  Most of the companies that we are talking about are multinational companies that have intentionally developed significant offshore business, for this very reason.  Sure, they may only get a maximum of 10% of their income from any other single country.  But, 10% from England, another 10% from France, another 10% each from Germany, Japan and Russia, 8% each from Spain, Italy and Australia and another few percent from each of a number of smaller countries and you suddenly see that the amount of US business that many of those companies have is far less than the tax savings that they would recognize by leaving.

Giving up 15-25% of their business for a couple of years, to save 35% in taxes forever is not a bad deal.  In fact, that's a possibility that every company that has chosen expatriation has had to consider and still, they chose expatriation.

I remember one of the officers of a company that expatriated a while back, who said that even if the US government was to make the mistake of attempting to bar expatriating companies entirely from doing business in the US, that the US economy could not handle the negative effects of such legislation for more than a couple of years, while it would be only a temporary setback for established multinational companies and even that would be offset by a significant permanent tax savings.  In fact, the only thing that is keeping most of them here now is the patriotism of their American officers.  But, as oppressive laws put more and more of them into a position where their patriotism puts their company at risk, more and more will choose survival over patriotism.

They may have to give up some US business.  But, the other choice is corporate oblivion.

2)  The other point that you ignore is that the US must have some way of repatriating all massive amount of the US Dollars that are currently offshore.  Without foreign business investment in the US, there is no way to get those dollars back into circulation and "circulation" is the name of the game.  Without enough dollars in circulation, other countries can easily force the value of the dollar to artificial lows.

The fact is, that the US needs those corporations doing business here a whole lot more than those corporations need to do business here.

 

50 posted on 08/01/2002 3:18:42 PM PDT by Action-America
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