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"I'M ASHAMED OF THIS" Interview with a 'copter Wildfire Fighter.
The Lars Larson Show ^ | 8/02/02 | AuntB

Posted on 08/02/2002 7:10:45 PM PDT by AuntB

The following is a transcribed portion of an interview aired today on the Lars Larson radio program from Portland, Or., which is broadcast across the Northwest from noon to 4:00 P.M. pacific. There is little I can add to his exchange with the executive vice-president of a company that supplies helicopter service to the US Forest service to show the inept and dangerous policies of this bureaucracy. Please bring these disclosures to your congress people’s attention and demand the policy of silence and media blackout practiced by the Forest Service and environmental groups stop. Our homes, forests and lives are being destroyed and YOU, the taxpayers are funding it.

***** Lars Larson: [Our radio affiliate, KCMX, Medford, Or – The Morning Express with Garth & Rosemary, 880 AM] called me this morning and said Mark Lindamood (sp) has just an unbelievable story to tell about Carson Helicopter and some work it’s been doing for the Forest Service in fighting these forest fires. Mark, why don’t you tell people how many helicopters you have up there working on behalf of the public to get those fires put out.

ML: Well, today we have 9 aircraft flying on the Toolbox fire, Timbered Rock, and the Southbisquit Fire.

LL: …people should realize that at one point, Mark’s helicopter pilots were told to stop taking water out of a pond to fight fires….Mark, why did your pilots decide that was a good pond to take water out of to dump on that fire?

ML: First let me preface this with the Oregon State dept. of Forestry is who we are working with on the Timbered Rock fire and in my opinion, as having done this for thousands of hours and many years, the Oregon State Dept. of Forestry is by far and above the best fire fighting team in the whole nation. These guys are absolute professionals and they were working on TR fire headed up by Phil Hostetter (sp). They found a dried out pond on the Josephine/Jackson County line. They took a dozer up, bladed out the pond a little bit, knocked down a couple trees I think, and that gave us good ingress and egress for our giant water buckets……

We flew out of that for a day or so, it shortened the turn around time from 10 minutes down to 2 or 3 minutes. And they kept the pond filled with water trucks that came up from Lost Creek or Elk Creek, someplace and kept the pond filled……BUT, we were just on the other side of the US Forest Service line and we were within their boundaries. So they came up yesterday (8/1) and shut the pond down and they gated it and prohibited trucks from coming in. Their reason for this was…. we didn’t ask for permission and they didn’t have what is called a “Dip Site Manager” on site. This is a problem that pervades the whole helicopter industry and it’s part of the USFS big overall problem. So they shut us down and we went back to running about a 10 minute flight for water.

Now, that land we we're on…… was not a park, it was not a road less area, it was not a wilderness area, it was a multiple use forest service property. In other words, YOUR PROPERTY…..

They finally got a “dip site manager” in, who by the way, sits on the heli-base about 15, 20 miles from the dig site and he or she brought their paperwork in………but that pond is not opened up yet because they are still trying to sort it out and that’s about a day and a half that’s gone by that we can’t use that site.

Listen, it gets worse. We have to wait constantly for these “quote managers”. First of all they’re named wrong, they should be called “liaisons” because when they’re designated “managers” they interpret that in their own mind as “boss”. These are people who are part timers or they work for the forest service full time and work part time as a “manager”. This week we waited for two days waiting for a “manager” with our …aircraft sitting in front of the hanger in the Grants Pass airport 7 miles from a major forest fire that is threatening homes, burning up property, and certainly wasting and burning up our own natural resources. With the USFS we have to have one manager per aircraft…… Under extreme emergencies a manager can handle two type one aircraft. We don’t carry people, we only carry water…….all our pilots have more than 15,000 hours, they all in their fifties, most of them, and we’re waiting on some college student while people’s homes are burning. The worst of it was on the fire in Colorado, near Durango, we had 3 aircraft working along a housing development…….. The three aircraft were keeping the fire away from this sub[division]by laying down retardant. The Columbia (another company) aircraft had to leave in about 20 minutes for fuel. They called our aircraft, which had almost 2 hours of fuel remaining aboard, and told us we had to come in because it’s time for [our] 2 ½ hour rest break. Our guys said they didn’t need the break,[ they were used to flying 10 hour days every day] …….they said you come in and land or you’re going to be in violation….….you have to remember, we have to fly 15 or 20 minutes back to the heli-base, shut the aircraft down, stop the rotors and then start it back up again and fly back out…..by the time our aircraft got back out there the housing development was GONE.

This kind of garbage, this kind of crap is why the president needs authority to fire people in our Homeland Defense. ….these people in the USFS are only interested in their wages, their time off, vacation time, their retirement, THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT OUR RESOURCES…….we have to operate our aircraft when were flying for the USFS at our very minimum. We have a performance section in flight manuals, a limitation section. They take our performance section, which is only there as a guideline, and make us operate on the very minimum of that. …under the guise of safety, USFS is the only place in the world I can work that I’m forced to do the absolute minimum that I can do and get paid the absolute maximum. …..I honestly think now that the USFS doesn’t care about our resources, they only care about their next year’s budget. The bigger their budget is this year, the bigger it will be next year. Their answer to it is to hire more “managers”.

LL: What is it that the public can do to help you get some of the bureaucrats to get off the dime and actually let you and your pilots do their jobs?

ML: They need to get in touch with their congress people, senators. It’s almost like it’s so big now that it’s feeding on itself……….and I will tell you in my opinion, they are at least partially responsible for some of the devastating loss that people have experienced here. We wait…..sometimes 2 days for this “manager” to come, and that may not sound like a long time to the forest service people ……..but if your home is burning or your barn is on fire or you’re losing your timber stand, that is a lifetime of wait.

I want to go back to the 21/2 hour mandatory coffee break…….. I wrote for a rule change….to the National Interagency Fire Center, who hires us, and we ask to change the rule because our aircraft are designed to fly 8 hours. We have special equipment in them that we can fly 8 straight without landing….and we do it every day, day in, day out. J. P. Johnston (sp), the head of the helicopter portion of NIFC told us that we would have to hire a lobbyist …or hire their lobbyist to change that rule.

Our daily availability rate is $19,256.00 plus $2,414.00 for every hour we fly plus all the other fees. We LOVE the money we get. The thing is Lars, I’m personally ashamed. I’m ashamed of this……

(Excerpt) Read more at larslarson.com ...


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: abuseofpower; agnessoregon; alqaedagreens; andrewkerr; andykerr; andykerrslegacy; backfiresstarted; burningoregon; cavejunctionor; christines; clubsierralegacy; delnorteca; ecofascismlegacy; ecofascistburning; ecokamikazes; econaziburning; econutsusefires; ecoterrorism; ecoterrorists; ecoviolence; environmentalism; florencebackfires; gasquetcalifornia; goldbeachoregon; greenagenda; greenfirecleansing; greenlegacy; greenratslegacy; greensburnoregon; greenscanburnyou; greenscankillyou; harmsway; illinoisvalley; ilvalleyburning; kalmiopsisburning; kerbyoregon; kitzslegacy; obrienoregon; onrcagenda; onrcslegacy; oregonburning; oregonisburning; orncfirecleansing; pufflist; realgreenlegacy; ruralcleansing; selmaoregon; sourbiscuitfire; stopecoviolence; usfloristservice; usforestservice; wildfires; wildlandfires
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By the third hour of this show, Lars had Congressman Greg Walden, Newt Gingerich and Mr. Lindamood collectively on the phone. Rep. Walden, who is on the Energy and Commerce and Resources committees has promised to get attention drawn to this situation immediately and he needs OUR encouragement. Greg.walden@mail.house.gov. , 1-800-533-3303.

You can catch Lars Larson’s remarkably informative shows on the net or across the Northwest on your radio dial. You may also link to your congress people on his web site. Besides, it’s usually a good read. WWW.LARSLARSON.COM

The gentleman with Carson Helicopters stated further that he had tried to get the local newspapers and the Oregonian interested in this story, but they didn’t have the time to hear it. He also stressed that the USFS has gone "green" and that we are supporting our own downfall by supporting the big Enviromental conglomerates. Don't be mistaken, the donation business is lucrative. Further, he noted that the media is not allowed to approach the fire areas or interview any fire fighters, pilots, etc. by order of the USFS. Noted by another source as well, bulldozers that locals have volunteered are kept from the fires until they pass USFS "inspection" and must only be 1 or 2 years old. Some have sat for days before being allowed to be used against the fire.

Our continued thanks go to Rosemary and Garth Harrington of KCMX, Medford for originally bringing this to our attention early Friday morning when no one else seemed willing to report it.

1 posted on 08/02/2002 7:10:45 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: AuntB
“Dip Site Manager”

Seems the feds have decided to provide more descriptive job titles to some positions... ;0)

2 posted on 08/02/2002 7:15:07 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks
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To: Grampa Dave; Mudboy Slim; Carry_Okie; SierraWasp; JohnHuang2; countrydummy; sauropod; Jeff Head; ...
Please! Tell someone.
3 posted on 08/02/2002 7:15:26 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Is THAT just too much?? I couldn't make up this stuff!
4 posted on 08/02/2002 7:16:31 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: AuntB
“Dip Site Manager” = Senate Majority Leader

5 posted on 08/02/2002 7:19:05 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: AuntB
And we all wonder why forest fires aren't put out in a timely basis. Now we know why. Not only are the fire fighters up against the fire, they're up against bureaucrats, too. How sad.
6 posted on 08/02/2002 7:19:47 PM PDT by Slip18
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To: The Shrew
Coming soon to your Colorado fires.
7 posted on 08/02/2002 7:20:24 PM PDT by Skeet
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To: Skeet
Oops!! Did I spell Durango correctly??? I was going to check that...tsk, tsk! Ping someone, Skeet and thanks!
8 posted on 08/02/2002 7:23:19 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: Slip18
The story just got worse and worse, but this was what I was able to capture. Help us tell others about this, Slip, my neighbors are really suffering around here.
9 posted on 08/02/2002 7:25:16 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: AuntB
Please! Tell someone

No, should be...Please fire someone!

10 posted on 08/02/2002 7:26:34 PM PDT by leadhead
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To: AuntB
I've often wondered why somebody in the gubmint doesn't dust off some of those mothballed bombers sitting down there in the Arizona desert, fit them with huge water/fire retardant tanks, and send them out, squadron formation, to "bomb" the hell out of any forest fire that gets to be a nuisance.

Hell, if we could launch thousand-plane bombing raids against Nazi Germany, surely we could put a couple dozen or so Strato-cruisers in round the clock "bombing" operations against a forest fire. Let it rain!

11 posted on 08/02/2002 7:26:48 PM PDT by Washington-Husky
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To: Chad Fairbanks
“Dip Site Manager”

They goofed on the second word. They added an "e" and forgot an "h".

Nik
12 posted on 08/02/2002 7:29:58 PM PDT by Nik Naym
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To: AuntB
I'll send this story to my State Representative tomorrow. I don't think my State Senator McCain would give a darn.
13 posted on 08/02/2002 7:36:52 PM PDT by Slip18
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To: AuntB; Argh; Bella_Bru; camle; CholeraJoe; dubyaismypresident; Gabz; gunshy; hobbes1; lds23; ...
I'm bringing in a "ping" list, too.
14 posted on 08/02/2002 7:38:33 PM PDT by Slip18
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To: AuntB
Better believe it folks, it's just this bad or worse. I'll never forget a big wig bureaucrat several years back who was pissed because some local municipality went over his head and ordered up several C-130 tankers to assist in fighting fires in the hills north east of L.A. He refused to give them any of the "Pink Stuff" (fire retardant) to mix with the water to teach them who the “Boss” was.
15 posted on 08/02/2002 7:42:28 PM PDT by FireTrack
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To: NormsRevenge
?Dip Site Manager? = Senate Majority Leader =DIP $HIT
16 posted on 08/02/2002 7:44:08 PM PDT by The Real Deal
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To: AuntB
Our entire system of government is designed to foster ineptitude. The top dogs in the agency are political hacks enjoying three or four years of the best-paid jobs they will ever have. Next down from them are the career senior executives who are selected based on being "generalist managers." See, instead of hiring competent specialists the public administration lobby decided it would be better for themselves if the top career dogs were not expected to be competent in the programs which they administer. The mid-level managers are selected based upon their willingness to hire and tolerate the appropriate racial quotas. The peons are selected based solely on demographics. The longer the fires burn the more time-and-a-half everybody (yep, from top to bottom, chair warming executives all the way down) gets. Fire season is the big pay-off and god only knows what the forest service will find to burn down once they finish off the rest of the national forests.
17 posted on 08/02/2002 7:52:48 PM PDT by QuestionBureaucracy
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To: AuntB
bump
18 posted on 08/02/2002 7:53:34 PM PDT by Red Jones
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To: Slip18; *puff_list
I've brought in the only ping list I've got - but here it is!!

It's getting out of hand - I always thought the nico-nazis were bad, I'm starting to wonder if the enviro-nazis are possibly worse. But they all do the same thing - destroy the rights of others - including destroying the PRIVATE property rights of others.

19 posted on 08/02/2002 7:54:38 PM PDT by Gabz
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To: QuestionBureaucracy
The "peter principle" at its finest.
20 posted on 08/02/2002 7:57:23 PM PDT by Gabz
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To: Chad Fairbanks
One solution is for congress sack the entire USFS and place the responsability under the national guard in liason with the helicopter companies.This is the only way to get the job done.
The national guard doesn't goof-off like these USFS idiots.
21 posted on 08/02/2002 8:10:23 PM PDT by cavador
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To: AuntB
This beurocracy would have made the Soviet Union blush.
22 posted on 08/02/2002 8:13:28 PM PDT by Husker24
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To: AuntB
Thanks for the post Aunt B.
23 posted on 08/02/2002 8:21:16 PM PDT by joyce11111
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To: AuntB; madfly
Bump & Ping...
24 posted on 08/02/2002 8:24:29 PM PDT by tubebender
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To: Gabz
Thanks, Gabz!
25 posted on 08/02/2002 8:36:15 PM PDT by Slip18
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To: AuntB
I recommend that, instead of chasing distant water sources, the helicopter crews should simply start dropping USFS pin-headed bureaucrats on these fires. They're obviously so full of sh!t that the fire would be smothered in short order, the land would be fertilized for reforestation, and the federal payroll would be lightened simultaneously.

Stupid, arrogant buffoons.... and they can be found in virtually every agency of the federal govt.

26 posted on 08/02/2002 8:45:25 PM PDT by TheGrimReaper
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Read Atlas Shrugged and The Gulag Archipelago. It is all laid out in these books. It is alot later than we think.
27 posted on 08/02/2002 8:47:44 PM PDT by willyone
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Close, but they still are missing an "H" and have an extra "E"
28 posted on 08/02/2002 8:49:51 PM PDT by Not now, Not ever!
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To: AuntB
Remember two years ago when the four fire fighters were burned to death? An endangered fish stopped the helos from filling their buckets and these four died. They promised after that that the problem would be fixed. The govt. is filled with liars and incompetents. Affirmative action and the greenies have taken their toll. Twenty years ago this would not have happened. The pols will be active until the furor blows over. Then business as usual.
29 posted on 08/02/2002 8:51:27 PM PDT by willyone
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To: rintense
Ping....wanna use your "powers" to bring more over here or shall I just post???? In any case, BTTT!!!!
30 posted on 08/02/2002 8:51:49 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma
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To: AuntB; dixie sass; Memother; chesty_puller; Japedo; madfly; Snow Bunny; FallGuy; JohnHuang2; ...
Spread the word
31 posted on 08/02/2002 8:53:16 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK
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To: willyone
Read 'em... :0)
32 posted on 08/02/2002 8:54:28 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks
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To: AuntB
bttt
33 posted on 08/02/2002 9:07:33 PM PDT by PatrioticAmerican
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To: AuntB
Where's the rest of the article? I've looked all over Lars' site and can't find it...
34 posted on 08/02/2002 9:15:18 PM PDT by SW6906
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To: AuntB
Maybe we should all complain to who is IN CHARGE of the USFS these days....

Is this for real?

35 posted on 08/02/2002 9:27:14 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: FireTrack
I haven't met you before, FireTrack. It's good to have you here. Are you in the great "smokey" Northwest as well?
36 posted on 08/02/2002 9:29:13 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: Gabz
Indeed! Thanks, Gabz. The gentleman in the interview was sincere and this is a serious mess. He stressed over and over the self perpetuating nature of this bureaucracy and it's "green agenda". I'm watching an entire culture vanish. It's quite heartbreaking actually.
37 posted on 08/02/2002 9:33:31 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: FormerLurker; All
It seems as credible as it gets. I heard him on 3 seperate interviews today. Cong. Walden seems to believe him and promised to meet with him immediately. He is who he says he is. We have to find a way for someone to have the authority to fire and replace...or JUST fire them....we'd all be better off if we were rid of 90% of them. I know there are good USFS employees, don't get me wrong, but someone has got to speak up. Soon.
38 posted on 08/02/2002 9:37:40 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: TheGrimReaper
Oh, Reaper, you silver tongued devil, you! Stop it, you're getting me excited.
39 posted on 08/02/2002 9:39:14 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Seems the feds have decided to provide more descriptive job titles to some positions... ;0)

It would be even more descriptive if they added an "h" to and deleted a "e" from the title.

40 posted on 08/02/2002 9:42:18 PM PDT by William Terrell
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To: SW6906
"Where's the rest of the article?"

I'M SORRY! I've been away from here and not posted in so long, the little square seemed logical to check since it wasn't a "complete" interview. ...did not realize what it said when posted.:<( You HAVE to forgive me you know! It's the law.

41 posted on 08/02/2002 9:42:59 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: AuntB
In such a situation, the Governor of Oregon should order the USFS folks out and order Oregon fire fighters to get whatever water they need.

It is an emergency, life-saving issue that the USFS has no right to override.

Was the Governor aware of this while it was occuring?

If not, I'd suggest Oregon residents write to him and urge him to get involved.

42 posted on 08/02/2002 9:45:55 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: AuntB
For whatever it's worth, get ready for the spin. USFS WILL use their shills in FEMA (remember firefighters have started being federally funded now) to spin that it's those darned lumber companies and clear cutting that's causing the problem.
43 posted on 08/02/2002 9:46:31 PM PDT by Richard Kimball
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To: OWK; redrock; Wallaby; Great Dane; Askel5; Alamo-Girl; Eustace; nunya bidness; Robert Drobot; ...
Good evening, Good People. Greetings from smokey Southern Oregon.
44 posted on 08/02/2002 9:47:34 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: Richard Kimball
Hi, Richard, good to see you. Yes, that spin started a couple weeks ago. It's been hot and heavy especially on NPR. YES, I check out the enemy.....every chance I get.
45 posted on 08/02/2002 9:50:02 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: Ken H
Our Governor? Kitzhaber? Mr. Greenjeans? You're not from around here, are you?

Seriously, he's been our biggest enemy. He'd have soon done away with the Klamath Falls farmers as not. And worse. He is crazed by Lars Larson's refusal to back down from the truth. He's out in a few months...term limited, but he's pushing his legacy, big time.

46 posted on 08/02/2002 9:54:09 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: Slip18
Da'Asshole is an as*hole. And he has many willing accomplices in media and senate and congress....... He is one sick puppy.
47 posted on 08/02/2002 9:54:58 PM PDT by buffyt
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To: AuntB
We often have our share of smoke here in California, too. Good evening to you too!
48 posted on 08/02/2002 9:55:48 PM PDT by buffyt
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK
Thanks, Punk, you're a doll. I'm calling it a night...going to sneak off and watch John Stossel stick it to the USFS on ABC. Good night!
49 posted on 08/02/2002 9:56:09 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: FireTrack
Please tell me that the "Boss" is no longer in his position.
50 posted on 08/02/2002 9:57:06 PM PDT by swheats
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