Posted on 08/27/2002 3:11:05 PM PDT by jstone78
Should Non-Catholics Run the Catholic Church?
by Paul Gottfried
The announcement that a majority of Spanish bishops are urging the pope to canonize Queen Isabella I has brought forth bellowing objections from the usual sources, namely, leftwing victimologists who are appalled that they have not been asked to endorse such decisions. A man identified as the secretary general of the Spanish Jewish Federation, Carlos Schorr, fumes that the church would consider for high honors someone who had engaged in "religious persecution," though he adds that not being a Catholic or being in charge of the church, the call is not really his to make.
The same piece, published in a Jewish Global News Service, explains that the consideration of Isabella for canonization is the latest in a series of offenses that the church has recently inflicted on Jews and other sensitive people. For example, the church canonized Edith Stein, who died in a concentration camp as a Jewish woman but had previously become a Catholic. And the church has the temerity to propose Pius XII as a saint, despite the fact that "he was generally silent during the Holocaust."
The collected gripes here reproduced have the value of one enormous whine. Having studied the matter, I think Pius deserves praise (canonization I leave to the church) precisely for his admirable behavior in helping out Jews during the Holocaust. As for Edith Stein, I suppose the same objection raised against her canonization could be made just as easily against St. Paul, who abandoned the Jewish community of his time by taking on Christian beliefs. I am also struck by the fact that the Spanish Jewish leader quoted does not have a Sephardic but a Central or Eastern European Jewish name. The overwhelming odds are that his own ancestors were not driven out of Spain after the conquest of Granada in 1492.
As far as I know, Sephardic Jews, those descended from the Jewish families expelled by Ferdinand and Isabella, are not the ones now heard complaining. The majority of Jewish refugees from the Iberian Peninsula, from Portugal as well as Spain, landed up in the Levant and are today a small part of the total Jewish population, despite their production of such illustrious Westernized representatives as Spinoza, David Ricardo, Georges Bizet, Judah Benjamin, and Benjamin Disraeli. Sephardim should also not be confused with the generally hitherto poor and usually badly educated Mizrachim, Jews from Arab countries who have taken over the Sephardic book of prayers and share the same pronunciation of Hebrew but are ethnically distinct from their liturgical cousins. Sephardim were naturally and justifiably unhappy about their treatment at the hands of a Spanish monarchy that at least some of them had served. Less defensible is the screaming now pouring out of those whose ancestors Isabella had not in any way victimized.
Although Isabella may not have been a Mother Theresa or an Edith Stein, she is a figure who contributed mightily to the forging of a Spanish national identity. (And there seems to be silence about her role, now more politically correct, in reconquering Spain from the Muslims.) One can understand why Basque separatists object to her canonization, the same way that American Southerners before their recent lobotomization resented the original cult of Abraham Lincoln, as a national consolidator rather predecessor of Martin Luther King. Neither Louis IX of France nor Stephen I of Hungary, nor Constantine in the Orthodox Church, would strike one as a Christ-like figure or as a model of religious tolerance.
But the church canonized such rulers in part as a way of affirming the ties between itself and particular peoples. Such actions simply take over the sacralization of national liberators and rulers practiced among other groups, e.g., the Jewish veneration of David and Solomon or the Jewish celebration on Chanukah of what became the consolidation of Hasmonean rule, and indigenous Jewish tyranny before the Roman occupation of the Jewish commonwealth.
Allow me, however, to suggest how Catholic leadership can spare itself further embarrassment when it comes to beatifying and canonizing. It should look for candidates like Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, Jewish Communists who had cordial relations with the Soviet Union and who therefore will not likely be accused of anti-Semitism and its supposed twin evil, anti-Communism. No doubt if Pius XII has snuggled up to the Commies instead of declaring them to be the "scourge of God," Cornwell would not have had to invent a Nazi lineage for this unfortunate figure.
Muslims or Hindus never have to consult outsiders, in deciding whom each faith should venerate.
It's tough to break out of that persecuted mindset.
Excellent observation! Sure and here's a tip o' my hat to you.
1.The same piece, published in a Jewish Global News Service, explains that the consideration of Isabella for canonization is the latest in a series of offenses that the church has recently inflicted on Jews and other sensitive people. For example, the church canonized Edith Stein, who died in a concentration camp as a Jewish woman but had previously become a Catholic. And the church has the temerity to propose Pius XII as a saint, despite the fact that "he was generally silent during the Holocaust."
The attacks on Pius the 12 first came from Catholic leftists and were picked up by a few Jewish leftists. The media has blown this out of contect.
I am also struck by the fact that the Spanish Jewish leader quoted does not have a Sephardic but a Central or Eastern European Jewish name. The overwhelming odds are that his own ancestors were not driven out of Spain after the conquest of Granada in 1492.
Gottfried later speaks of Spinoza but doesn't put two and two tegethr to realise taht many Spanish Spanish Jews fled not only to the Netherlands and Western Europe but to the Holy Roman Empire and Eastern Europe. Gottfried does not know Jewish history.
As far as I know, Sephardic Jews, those descended from the Jewish families expelled by Ferdinand and Isabella, are not the ones now heard complaining. The majority of Jewish refugees from the Iberian Peninsula, from Portugal as well as Spain, landed up in the Levant and are today a small part of the total Jewish population, despite their production of such illustrious Westernized representatives as Spinoza, David Ricardo, Georges Bizet, Judah Benjamin, and Benjamin Disraeli. Sephardim should also not be confused with the generally hitherto poor and usually badly educated Mizrachim, Jews from Arab countries who have taken over the Sephardic book of prayers and share the same pronunciation of Hebrew but are ethnically distinct from their liturgical cousins. Sephardim were naturally and justifiably unhappy about their treatment at the hands of a Spanish monarchy that at least some of them had served. Less defensible is the screaming now pouring out of those whose ancestors Isabella had not in any way victimized.
Sephardim are a minotiry, but most settled the entire mediteranian area remaining under Muslim control. Teh Morroccan Jewish community is Sephardic as is that of the Balkans and most of Turkey's.
WEre Gottfried not ignorant of the subject, he could have picked up the Jewish Encyclopedia or look up in what areas people spoke the Sephardic pidgin, Ladino.
The truth then is that Gottfrieds last statement is pointless and incorrect, but exists to pursue his political agenda.
But the church canonized such rulers in part as a way of affirming the ties between itself and particular peoples. Such actions simply take over the sacralization of national liberators and rulers practiced among other groups, e.g., the Jewish veneration of David and Solomon or the Jewish celebration on Chanukah of what became the consolidation of Hasmonean rule, and indigenous Jewish tyranny before the Roman occupation of the Jewish commonwealth.
Actually the early Hasmoneas were quite nice compared to the Roman puppet Kings like Herod.
And finally we get to Gottfrieds agenda.
Allow me, however, to suggest how Catholic leadership can spare itself further embarrassment when it comes to beatifying and canonizing. It should look for candidates like Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, Jewish Communists who had cordial relations with the Soviet Union and who therefore will not likely be accused of anti-Semitism and its supposed twin evil, anti-Communism. No doubt if Pius XII has snuggled up to the Commies instead of declaring them to be the "scourge of God," Cornwell would not have had to invent a Nazi lineage for this unfortunate figure.
There is a huge difference between the leftist attacks on Pius the 12 who saved Jews, and is being smeared in an attack on Catholics and Jews by the left, and one on Isabella of Aragon and Castille who had the Jews expelled.
The Catholic Church can beatify whomever they want, but it sure does give ammunition to those who look at the instutional anti-Semetism of the Catholic church.
You don't give John Paul II any credit either, do you? What kind of groveling would Catholics have to do to get beyond this Jewish whining?
Actully, I give John Paul II a lot of credit for standing up to the Nazis, the Soviets and communists, and against leftists trying to reform the church into oblivion.
Pope John Paul II has done a lot of good in mending Jewish-Catholic relations, despite the assualt by the left and a few retreads who still like to scream "Christ Killer" every Easter.
That is why the proposed canonization of Isabella I is so painful.
I have a few questions for you
1. How bad of person could one be before you would oppose beautifacation?
2. What is the worst thing they could do to Jews before you would say, it is too much?
1. What an odd question. The process that leads to beatification is rigorous. It is also based in a historical context. You're looking at Isabella with 21st century eyes. Popes with servants would never be eligible for canonization, in your world. I assume the Church will apply the same diligence to Isabella it applies to every other saint it recognizes.
2. Jews should not be persecuted, and never should have been persecuted. Blacks should not be slaves, and never should have been slaves. Looking at the 15th century through a present-day lens is simply historical revisionism and distorts the events and motivations of people of the time.
It is typically the Jewish left which, like blacks pushing reparations, will simply not turn the page.
Then why the complaint? Some Jewish groups are pointing out a flaw in Isabella. Catholics should thank them for preventing a mistake like sanctifying a sinner.
2. Jews should not be persecuted, and never should have been persecuted. Blacks should not be slaves, and never should have been slaves. Looking at the 15th century through a present-day lens is simply historical revisionism and distorts the events and motivations of people of the time.
Motivations?
I suppose theft, cancellation of debt owed by the crown, and revenge should be balanced by the desire of Ferdinand and Isabella to unify Spain.
I believe that some crimes cannot be overlooked. They did not inherit a situation like slavery. They created the crime.
It is typically the Jewish left which, like blacks pushing reparations, will simply not turn the page.
The left is using this to attack the Church. I'm just disappointed.
Some things should not be gotten over.
And Christopher Hitchens thought Mother Teresa's taking money from Charles Keating should disqualify her from canonization. The Church will take the input of Jewish groups into consideration, I'm sure.
Some things should not be gotten over.
You'll understand, then, when Catholics, after hearing the same complaints over and over and over and over, simply move on and apply the criteria it has always used for sainthood.
The Jews are not going to influence the canonization of Isabella anymore than they are going to influence the canonization of Pius IX.
Fair resolution. I don't want anyone but Catholic leaders to define Church policy. That doesn't mean that they can't listen to the opinions of others.
"Some things should not be gotten over."
You'll understand, then, when Catholics, after hearing the same complaints over and over and over and over, simply move on and apply the criteria it has always used for sainthood.
If that is the final decision, fine. I just ask that they way the evidence before making he woman a saint.
The Jews are not going to influence the canonization of Isabella anymore than they are going to influence the canonization of Pius IX.
There si a fundamental difference betweent eh two cases.
Pius IX is under assault by the revisionist left. Some leftist Jews are joining them. The problem is that most of the allegations are false. Pius IX condemned the Holocaust and helped save thousands of Jews and other victims of Nazi terror.
Isabella I stole property and had Jews expelled.
One is the victim of the left and the other a victimizer.
That was Pius XII.
Pius IX, the longest reigning Pope in history, absconded with and "adopted" a young Jewish boy, forcing him into Catholic conversion.
He is also being considered seriously for sainthood.
Does that mean that you would also support the campaign by some Native Americans, to remove President Andrew Jackson from the 20 dollar bill? Many Native Americans feel the same resentment against Jackson, that you do about Queen Isabella, that "some crimes cannot be overlooked".
If someone proposed Andrew Jackson today, I would oppose having him on the bank note. Given his policy on a National Bank and the economic damage it caused, the decision to put Jackson on the $20 was an affront to Jackson and to our banking system. It was a stupid political move.
I opposed Jackson's decision to move the Cherokee's because it was an afront othe Constitution. The Supremem Court had rightly ruled that states cannot overturn federal treaties with Indian nations. Jackson told teh court "You made the decision, now enforce it."
For that alone, he should have been impeached. Jackson was exactly the type of demagogue the Founders warned us about.
But the interests of a nation must always precede the interests of special interest groups. Andrew Jackson, whatever his faults, advanced the cause of the American nation, just as Queen Isabella advanced the Spanish cause.
The issue isn't Spain honoring Isabella I, but the Roman Catholic Church making her a saint. The RCC is supposed to be catholic, not particularist to the patriotism of individual nations.
The RCC, by virtue of its name is supposed to be universal and undivided. (look up catholic).
Yeah, my bad.
I don't think that the RCC should make that exemplary behavior by sainting Pius IX.
Unless his action is condemned, the cannonization of Pius IX would be disastrous to Catholic-Jewish relations.
It would do the same, if not more damage, than the opposition by some leftists and leftist Jews to Pius XII is doing.
There is a reverse to PC, which is the glee in breaking the PC orthodoxy. It can go to far, like the attempts of some to try to contextualise Hitler.
The problem with Gottfried's peice is that he plays fast and loose with facts for his political agenda. Worse his article fosters hate as a political tool. It is the mirror opposite of the PC attack.
Gottfried opposes political correctness, whether it is proposed by liberals, Marxists, or neoconservatives. Gottfried occupies the same status as an independent Jewish thinker, that Thomas Sowell occupies in black America. I consider both men to be among the bravest and most brilliant social critics in America.
There is a difference between beeing brave and supporting any cause.
Some people get hysterical and see any attempt to speak of the pain the Germans suffered under Wiemar or during the war as anti-Semetism, because Neo-Nazis use the arguement.
Gottfried sees the factual attack on Isabella I as worthy of attack because the PC left might use it.
Both are knee-jerk reactions and unbecoming of otherwise lucid thinkers.
Sowell has never defended those who enslaved blacks. Gottfried is doing the equivalent.
Historical revisionism.
The Vatican is on pins-and-needles in its relations with Jews, so I suspect objections will be taken into consideration, but will not be determinative.
What a ridiculous question!
It's kinda like my hubby's company deciding it would be GOOD to have non-IT managers running the IT department. D'oh. Real success story there, I hear it every week, if not daily! lol
These were the folks in the Royal family in France (her family too) who fostered church reform in the 1500s.
Although all Protestants were run out of Spain and Portugual about 1541, there has always been a question about who protected them in the earlier period. Some have suggested it was Isabella who was behind it, as was her Grandfather Rene in France.
It's long overdue to canonize a Protestant, particularly one of the unsung founders.
Before that, I have been bothered about the Jews being driven out of Spain and forcibly converted and tortured in some cases. The church owes the Jews a measure of sensitivity because catholics (the only christians during those years) were responsible for pogroms where Jews were persecuted and killed as scapegoats for the plague and other misfortunes that befell Europe. My personal preference is that the church move on and choose saints from her more recent past.
Unless his action is condemned, the cannonization of Pius IX would be disastrous to Catholic-Jewish relations.
sinkspur responded
Historical revisionism.
Where have I revised the facts?
The Vatican is on pins-and-needles in its relations with Jews, so I suspect objections will be taken into consideration, but will not be determinative.
OK.
And when I try to defend the Catholic church from attacks that it is anti-Semetic, my job will be much harder.
And Sowell has defended America's founding fathers against leftist attacks, in his capacity as an American, despite the fact that many of the founders owned black slaves. As an American, Sowell believes in honoring those who advanced the history of his nation. He puts American national interests, ahead of narrow ethnic interests, which makes him a great American.
There is a huge difference. Our Founders did not go around conquering territory and enslaving people. Moreover, we all accept that as humans our founders are imperfect. We don't revere them as sacred.
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