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Answers to Ron Paul's Questions on Iraq From an Opponent of the War
Lew Rockwell ^ | 9/14/02 | Jacob G. Hornberger

Posted on 09/14/2002 5:32:18 AM PDT by Boonie Rat

Answers to Ron Paul's Questions on Iraq From an Opponent of the War

by Jacob G. Hornberger

In the House of Representatives, September 10, 2002

From Representative Ron Paul, Texas.

Soon we hope to have hearings on the pending war with Iraq. I am concerned there are some questions that won't be asked – and maybe will not even be allowed to be asked. Here are some questions I would like answered by those who are urging us to start this war.

1. Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War was because we knew they could retaliate?

Hornberger: Yes.

2. Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb Iraq now because we know it cannot retaliate – which just confirms that there is no real threat?

Hornberger: Yes.

3. Is it not true that those who argue that even with inspections we cannot be sure that Hussein might be hiding weapons, at the same time imply that we can be more sure that weapons exist in the absence of inspections?

Hornberger: Yes.

4. Is it not true that the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency was able to complete its yearly verification mission to Iraq just this year with Iraqi cooperation?

Hornberger: Yes. Also, former Marine and former UN Inspector Scott Ritter is openly challenging the administration's thesis that Iraq is a threat to the United States.

5. Is it not true that the intelligence community has been unable to develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at all, much less the attacks on the United States last year?

Hornberger: Yes.

Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came from Iraq?

Hornberger: That fact doesn't support an attack on Iraq, making it easy for U.S. officials to forget it.

6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent Cannistraro wrong when he recently said there is no confirmed evidence of Iraq's links to terrorism?

Hornberger: Neither the president nor Tony Blair have produced any evidence to contradict that conclusion.

7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there is no evidence that a Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi intelligence took place?

Hornberger: Yes.

8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the administration claimed al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of our "allies," the Kurds?

Hornberger: Yes.

9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda leaders who escaped appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan, another of our so-called allies?

Hornberger: Yes, but U.S. officials don't criticize their allies, even when they are headed by non-democratic, brutal military thugs.

10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly sinking into total chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming daily occurrences; and that according to a recent UN report the al-Qaeda "is, by all accounts, alive and well and poised to strike again, how, when, and where it chooses"?

Hornberger: What better way to divert people's attention away from the chaos in Afghanistan and the failure to capture Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar (remember him? He was the leader of the Taliban and a prime suspect in the 9-11 attacks) than to attack Iraq? And you can't deny it's a brilliant political strategy to galvanize wartime "support-the-government-and-the-troops" patriotism right around election time.

11. Why are we taking precious military and intelligence resources away from tracking down those who did attack the United States – and who may again attack the United States – and using them to invade countries that have not attacked the United States?

Hornberger: Good question. Here's another one: Why was the FBI spending so much time and resources spying on bordellos in New Orleans and harassing drug users prior to 9-11 rather than pursuing the strong leads that pointed toward the 9-11 attacks?

12. Would an attack on Iraq not just confirm the Arab world's worst suspicions about the US – and isn't this what bin Laden wanted?

Hornberger: Yes. The U.S. government's attack will engender even more hatred and anger against Americans, which will engender more attacks against Americans, which will engender more U.S. government assaults on the civil liberties of the American people. As Virginian James Madison pointed out, people who live under a regime committed to perpetual war will never be free, because with war comes armies, taxes, spending, and assaults on the rights and freedoms of the people.

13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he has no navy or air force, and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years ago, which even then proved totally inept at defending the country?

Hornberger: It's convenient to compare any target of the U.S. government to Hitler in order to make people emotionally negative toward the target. That's why federal officials called David Koresch Hitler before they attacked the Branch Davidians, including (innocent) children, with deadly, flammable gas at Waco. Remember that Hitler took over Austria, Poland, and Czechoslovakia and then had the military might to fight on two fronts against the Soviet Union, France, Britain, and the U.S. Iraq, on the other hand, has invaded no one in more than 10 years and, in fact, invaded Kuwait only after U.S. officials failed to give Saddam (their buddy and ally at that time) the red light on invading Kuwait. By the way, notice how they never refer to their targets as a "Joseph Stalin" even though Stalin was no better and possibly much worse than Hitler. The reason they don't is that Stalin was a friend and ally of Franklin Roosevelt and the U.S. government.

14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to declare war is exclusively that of the Congress?

Hornberger: Yes, but since the Congress abrogated its constitutional duty in Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Granada, Panama, and other invasions, interventions, and wars, the president and most members of Congress believe that the declaration of war requirement has effectively been nullified, which is similar to Pakistan President Masharraf's unilaterally amending his country's Constitution to give himself more power.

Should presidents, contrary to the Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when pressured by public opinion?

Hornberger: No. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land and must be obeyed regardless of public opinion. In fact, the Bill of Rights expressly protects the people from the visisitudes of public opinion. The Consitution prohibits the president from waging war without an express declaration of war by Congress. That's why both Presidents Wilson and Roosevelt could not intervene in World Wars I and II without a congressional declaration of war.

Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN for permission to go to war?

Hornberger: No. The supreme law of the land – the law that the American people have imposed on their federal officials – is the U.S. Constitution. We the people are the ultimate sovereign in our country, not the United Nations.

15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying charges that thousands of Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis, which found no conclusive evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran occupied the very city involved, and that evidence indicated the type of gas used was more likely controlled by Iran not Iraq?

Hornberger: I have not seen it, but it would not surprise me. As history has repeatedly shown, public officials in every nation consider it proper and useful to lie as a way to galvanize public support in favor of the war that they're determined to wage. Decades later, when people are finally permitted to view the files, the records inevitably reveal the falsehoods that led the people to support the wars. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which Congress enacted on the request of President Lyndon Johnson, comes to mind since it cost the lives of 60,000 men of my generation in the Vietnam War, including some of my schoolmates at Virginia Military Institute.

16. Is it not true that anywhere between 100,000 and 300,000 US soldiers have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome from the first Gulf War, and that thousands may have died?

Hornberger: I didn't know that but it wouldn't surprise me. But when was the last time you saw high public officials worry about the welfare of American GIs? Vietnam? Somalia? VA Hospitals?

17. Are we prepared for possibly thousands of American casualties in a war against a country that does not have the capacity to attack the United States?

Hornberger: It's impossible to know how many American casualties there will be, and you could be right about thousands of American casualties, given the urban fighting that will have to take place. On the other hand, American casualties could be light given the U.S. government's overwhelming military might and tremendous domestic dissatisfaction in Iraq against Saddam Hussein (many Iraqis will undoubtedly view American forces as liberators, given Hussein's brutal, dictatorial regime). From a moral standpoint, we should not only ask about American GI casualties but also Iraqi people casualties. After the Allied Powers delivered the people of Czechoslovakia, Poland, and East Germany to Stalin and the Soviet communists after World War II, those people suffered under communism for five decades, which most of us would oppose, but who's to say that they would have been better off with liberation by U.S. bombs and embargoes, especially those who would have been killed by them? I believe that despite the horrible suffering of the Eastern Europeans and East Germans, Americans were right to refrain from liberating them with bombs and embargoes. It's up to the Iraqi people to deal with the tyranny under which they suffer – it is not a legitimate function of the U.S. government to liberate them from their tyranny with an attack upon their nation.

18. Are we willing to bear the economic burden of a $100 billion war against Iraq, with oil prices expected to skyrocket and further rattle an already shaky American economy? How about an estimated 30 years occupation of Iraq that some have deemed necessary to "build democracy" there?

Hornberger: Federal spending is now out of control, which means that taxes are now out of control because the only place that government gets its money is taxation, either directly through the IRS or indirectly through the Federal Reserve's inflationary policies. My prediction is that they'll let the Fed do it, so that President Bush avoids blame for raising taxes and so that U.S. officials can blame inflation on big, bad, greedy businessmen who are "price-gouging." When you add the costs of the war and foreign policy in general, including foreign aid and bailouts to corrupt foreign governments, to the federal "charity" and pork that the members of Congress send back to their districts in an attempt to buy votes to get reelected, it doesn't portend well for the future economic well-being of the American people. After all, let's not forget how Ronald Reagan brought down the Soviet Empire – he made it spend itself into bankruptcy.

19. Iraq's alleged violations of UN resolutions are given as reason to initiate an attack, yet is it not true that hundreds of UN Resolutions have been ignored by various countries without penalty?

Hornberger: Yes. And since these are UN resolutions, doesn't that mean that only the UN, not a specific member of the UN, has the legal authority to enforce them?

20. Did former President Bush not cite the UN Resolution of 1990 as the reason he could not march into Baghdad, while supporters of a new attack assert that it is the very reason we can march into Baghdad?

Hornberger: I have no reason to doubt that this is true.

21. Is it not true that, contrary to current claims, the no-fly zones were set up by Britain and the United States without specific approval from the United Nations?

Hornberger: I didn't know this but nothing surprises me anymore.

22. If we claim membership in the international community and conform to its rules only when it pleases us, does this not serve to undermine our position, directing animosity toward us by both friend and foe?

Hornberger: Absolutely, and what does it say about the U.S. government's commitment to the rule of law?

23. How can our declared goal of bringing democracy to Iraq be believable when we prop up dictators throughout the Middle East and support military tyrants like Musharraf in Pakistan, who overthrew a democratically-elected president?

Hornberger: The U.S. government's commitment to democracy is a sham, evidenced not only through its support of brutal non-elected dictators who follow its orders but also through its support of ousting democratically elected leaders who refuse to follow its orders, such as Chavez in Venezuela or Allende in Chile.

24. Are you familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings that revealed the U.S. knowingly supplied chemical and biological materials to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war and as late as 1992 – including after the alleged Iraqi gas attack on a Kurdish village?

Hornberger: I read a New York Times article on this just the other day. At the risk of modifying my statement above about not being surprised by anything anymore, I was stunned to learn that U.S. officials, including Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, were supporting Iraq when it was using chemical weapons against Iranians. From a moral standpoint, how low can they go? And how hypocritical can they be?

25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein's rise to power by supporting and encouraging his invasion of Iran?

Hornberger: This is during the time that Saddam was a buddy of the U.S. government. I wonder why they're not just offering him money again to re-become a buddy, as they do with other dictators, such as Masharraf, the brutal army dictator who took over Pakistan in a coup and who was a strong supporter and close friends of the Taliban.

Is it honest to criticize Saddam now for his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively supported?

Hornberger: No, it's highly hypocritical but it's effective with respect to those who refuse to believe that their federal government has engaged in wrongdoing overseas.

26. Is it not true that preventive war is synonymous with an act of aggression, and has never been considered a moral or legitimate US policy?

Hornberger: Yes, and wasn't that the preferred pretext of the Soviet Union when it committed acts of aggression during the Cold War?

27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?

Hornberger: Good question.

28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that they won't have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war than our generals?

Hornberger: I suggest that we form a "Suicide Brigade" for all men over 40 who support sending American GI's into foreign wars. Their mission would be to blow themselves up on enemy targets, thereby bringing the war to a quicker conclusion. They've already lived their lives anyway, and their suicides would be helping to save the lives of younger American soldiers. My prediction: Not one single "hard-charger" will volunteer, but I would oppose drafting them into "service."

29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?

Hornberger: There is no moral argument. And here's one back at you: At what point does an unprovoked attack against a weak nation that kills innocent people go from being "war" to becoming murder?

30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any reason other than self-defense?

Hornberger: It doesn't, but we are now experiencing the consequences of permitting U.S. officials to ignore the Constitution for decades, especially with respect to the declaration of war requirement. Question back to you: Did you ever think you would live in a nation in which one man has the omnipotent power to send an entire nation into war on his own initiative and the omnipotent power to jail any American citizen in an Army brig for the rest of his life without the benefit of trial or habeas corpus?

31. Is it not true that a war against Iraq rejects the sentiments of the time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly 400 years ago, that countries should never go into another for the purpose of regime change?

Hornberger: Yes.

32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society is, the less likely disagreements will be settled by war?

Hornberger: Absolutely. We are learning that our Founders were right – that an unrestrained federal government is highly dangerous to the best interests of the American people. That's the reason they required a Constitution as a condition of bringing the federal government into existence – they didn't trust unrestrained government and intended the Constitution to protect us from unrestrained government officials.

33. Is it not true that since World War II Congress has not declared war and – not coincidentally – we have not since then had a clear-cut victory?

Hornberger: Absolutely true, and such false and fake resolutions as the "Gulf of Tonkin Resolution" are shams that have prematurely snuffed out the lives of tens of thousands of American GIs.

34. Is it not true that Pakistan, especially through its intelligence services, was an active supporter and key organizer of the Taliban?

Hornberger: Yes, but the brutal Army general who took over in a coup and who recently unilaterally amended his country's Constitution without the consent of the people or the Parliament, is now doing what Washington tells him to do, and that's the difference.

35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal declaration of war resolution to the floor of Congress?

Hornberger: Because they're afraid to take individual responsibility, both politically and morally, for their actions. This way, they can straddle this fence – if the war goes well, they can claim credit and if it goes bad, they can blame the president. It's called political and moral cowardice, a malady that unfortunately has pervaded the U.S. Congress for many, many years.

September 14, 2002


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption
KEYWORDS: crackaddictwrites; drivel; gutlessappeasers; hatingamerica; lewsers; mindless; pedantic; spinelessness; stupid; unloving; wimp
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Discussion of the premise of the article welcomed. Attacks on the source discouraged.

Boonie Rat

MACV SOCOM, PhuBai/Hue '65-'66

1 posted on 09/14/2002 5:32:18 AM PDT by Boonie Rat
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To: Boonie Rat
Why? Do you think source doesn't matter?
2 posted on 09/14/2002 5:36:00 AM PDT by DB
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To: Boonie Rat
I stopped after Ritter's name was invoked.
3 posted on 09/14/2002 5:38:05 AM PDT by Texas_Jarhead
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To: Boonie Rat
RE:The answer to Question # 4.How does Ritter's current position jive with this:

Resignation Letter of William S. Ritter, Jr.
UNITED NATIONS
NATIONS UNIES

UNSCOM
UNITED NATIONS SPECIAL COMMISSION

Richard Butler
Executive Chairman
United Nations Special Commission
New York, New York

Dear Mr. Butler,

26 August 1998

Since September 1991 I have dedicated my professional life to the furtherance of the mandate of the Special Commission as set forth in relevant Security Council resolutions. I believed in what the Special Commission stood for, and made many sacrifices, both personal and professional, required to perform my duties. In this I was no different from hundreds of my colleagues, who likewise dedicated themselves to carrying out a difficult but worthwhile task.

The Special Commission was created for the purpose of disarming Iraq. As part of the Special Commission team, I have worked to achieve a simple end: the removal, destruction or rendering harmless of Iraq's proscribed weapons. The sad truth is that Iraq today is not disarmed anywhere near the level required by Security Council resolutions. As you know, UNSCOM has good reason to believe that there are significant numbers of proscribed weapons and related components and the means to manufacture such weapons unaccounted for in Iraq today.

Unfortunately, the recent decisions by the Security Council to downplay the significance of the recent Iraqi decision to cease cooperation with Commission inspectors clearly indicates that the organization which created the Special Commission in its resolution 687 (1991) is no longer willing and/or capable of the implementation of its own law, in this case an enforceable resolution passed under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter. This abrogation of its most basic of responsibilities has made the Security Council a witting partner to an overall Iraqi strategy of weakening the Special Commission. The Secretary General and his Special Representative have allowed the grand office of the Secretary General to become a sounding board for Iraqi grievances, real or imagined. In fact, the Secretary General himself has proposed a "comprehensive review" of the UNSCOM-Iraqi relationship, an action that would result in having the investigators becoming the investigated, all at the behest of Iraq. Such an action, in addition to being a farce, would create a clear distraction from the critical disarmament issues related to Iraq and its compliance with Security Council resolutions.

Iraq has lied to the Special Commission and the world since day one concerning the true scope and nature of its proscribed programs and weapons systems. This lie has been perpetuated over the years - through systematic acts of concealment. It was for the purpose of uncovering Iraq's mechanism of concealment, and in doing so gaining access to the hidden weapons, components and weapons programs, that you created a dedicated capability to investigate Iraq's concealment activities, which I have had the privilege to head. During the period of time that this effort has been underway, the Commission has uncovered indisputable proof of a systematic concealment mechanism, run by the Presidency of Iraq and protected by the Presidential security forces. This investigation has led the Commission to the door step of Iraq's hidden retained capability, and yet the Commission has been frustrated by Iraq's continued refusal to abide by its obligations under Security Council resolutions and the Memorandum of Understanding of 23 February 1998 to allow inspections, the Security Council's refusal to effectively respond to Iraq's actions, and now the current decision by the Security Council and the Secretary General, backed at least implicitly by the United States, to seek a "diplomatic" alternative to inspection driven confrontation with Iraq, a decision which constitutes a surrender to the Iraqi leadership that has succeeded in thwarting the stated will of the United Nations.

Inspections do work - too well, in fact, prompting Iraq to shut them down all together. Almost without exception, every one of the impressive gains made by UNSCOM over the years in disarming Iraq can be traced to the effectiveness of the inspection regime implemented by the Special Commission. The issue of immediate, unrestricted access is, in my opinion, the cornerstone of any viable inspection regime, and as such is an issue worth fighting for. Unfortunately, others do not share this opinion, including the Security Council and the United States. The Special Commission of today, hobbled as it is by unfettered Iraqi obstruction and non-existent Security Council enforcement of its own resolutions, is not the organization I joined almost seven years ago. I am, and will always be, fully supportive of the difficult mission that you, the Executive Chairman, and my colleagues at the Special Commission are tasked to accomplish. The refusal and/or inability on the part of the Security Council to exercise responsibility concerning the disarmament obligations of Iraq makes a mockery of the mission the staff of the Special Commission have been charged with implementing.

The illusion of arms control is more dangerous than no arms control at all. What is being propagated by the Security Council today in relation to the work of the Special Commission is such an illusion, one which in all good faith I cannot, and will not be a party to. I have no other option than to resign from my position here at the Commission effective immediately.

I want you to be assured that I hold both you and the staff of the Special Commission in the highest regard. I am aware of the immensely difficult task you have been charged with implementing. I only wish the world truly understood the heroic efforts you have undertaken, and the impossible conditions which you have been compelled to operate. I wish you and the staff the best in whatever the future holds.

Sincerely,

(signed)
Willam S. Ritter, Jr.
4 posted on 09/14/2002 5:43:20 AM PDT by John W
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To: Boonie Rat
bump
5 posted on 09/14/2002 5:44:45 AM PDT by steve50
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To: DB
Why? Do you think source doesn't matter?

Those who can't the premise of an article,other than attack the website, the source I was referring to, do not contribute much to the discussion, IMHO.

Boonie Rat

MACV SOCOM, PhuBai/Hue '65-'66

6 posted on 09/14/2002 5:46:57 AM PDT by Boonie Rat
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To: Boonie Rat
Hornberger: Yes. Also, former Marine and former UN Inspector Scott Ritter is openly challenging the administration's thesis that Iraq is a threat to the United States.

How come "they" only use Ritter's opinion, and only his recent opinions at that, when there are more than one former UN Inspector voicing opinions on the Iraqi threat? Maybe because he's the only ONE "challenging the administration's thesis that Iraq is a threat to the United States" and the rest support the "administration's thesis"?

7 posted on 09/14/2002 5:48:00 AM PDT by Gumption
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To: Boonie Rat
Those who can't the premise of an article,other than attack the website, the source I was referring to, do not contribute much to the discussion, IMHO

Sorry, not enough coffee.

Those who can't rebutt the premise of an article,other than attack the website, the source I was referring to, do not contribute much to the discussion, IMHO.

Boonie Rat

MACV SOCOM, PhuBai/Hue '65-'66

8 posted on 09/14/2002 5:49:00 AM PDT by Boonie Rat
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To: Boonie Rat; exodus
Thanks for posting this article.

Ping for exodus.
9 posted on 09/14/2002 5:51:35 AM PDT by carenot
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To: Boonie Rat
Discouraged or not, when they use Scott Ritter to back up their arguments, they are using a traitor.
10 posted on 09/14/2002 5:53:39 AM PDT by wattsmag2
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To: Boonie Rat
And just why is Lew Rockwell a sacred cow? Is it because the LP (and the source in particular) is even further to the left than Daschle regarding national security and generally in alignment with Tariq Aziz?
11 posted on 09/14/2002 5:54:23 AM PDT by 11B3
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To: DB
Why ? Do you think source doesn't matter ?

I make it a practice of not attacking the messenger, attack the message, dispute what the messenger puts before you. What is it that was said that you do not agree with ?

12 posted on 09/14/2002 5:56:36 AM PDT by DreamWeaver
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To: Boonie Rat
Ron Paul is one of the few honest and clear-thinking politicians left. I admire him for that and he will be the only politician I will be supporting with contributions at this time.

I don't care if anyone on this forum disagrees but it is my view, and I happen to be right, that W is doing more to take apart our country and our nation than 5 consecutive terms of Clinton could have done. Not that Clinton wouldn't have tried to do what W is about to attempt now. It's only that there would have been more dissent if Clinton tried it.

13 posted on 09/14/2002 5:58:18 AM PDT by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: Boonie Rat
1. Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War was because we knew they could retaliate?

Since this is number 1 on the hit parade, I'll start here. Paul and Hornberger are both incorrect. The answer to number 1 is absolutely NO. The reason we didn't launch on the Soviet Union at the height of the cold war was because we did not have enough provocation to do so. The reason the Soviets didn't launch on America is because they knew we would retaliate.

And this in a nutshell is my problem with Ron Paul and Hornberger, they are not even astute enough to recognise the difference between their own country and the Stalinist USSR.

14 posted on 09/14/2002 5:59:40 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: DreamWeaver
Here's what I do agree with:

What Have We Lost?

15 posted on 09/14/2002 6:02:02 AM PDT by DB
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To: Boonie Rat
If Iraq was the only target, perhaps this article would have a point.

The threat to the United States (and the western world) is the entire middle east. Afghaistan was step one. Iraq is step two. If the other countries in the region do not get the message, then one of them will be step three.

We are at war.

During WWII, our troops had to fight in a lot of differnt countries before reaching Germany. That is going to be the case now.

So the entire argument as presented makes as much sense as if someone would have written an argument against landing in France during D Day, after all we were not at war with France.

16 posted on 09/14/2002 6:02:28 AM PDT by CIB-173RDABN
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
Well "I know" you're wrong.

Well I guess that settles it then...
17 posted on 09/14/2002 6:05:06 AM PDT by DB
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To: Boonie Rat
Bump for informative Q & A.
18 posted on 09/14/2002 6:05:14 AM PDT by faintpraise
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To: Boonie Rat
I wouldn't worry about anyone attacking the source. Clearly, attacking Iraq based on the premises W offers would be a mistake - because the premises are either false or impossible to prove true and, even if true, they would still not justify attacking Bush senior's former ally, Iraq. Not while China, North Korea, Pakistan and other governments are still in business with some, such as China, actually suggesting nuclear attacks on our cities.

Ron Paul's questions need answers and, if anyone disagrees with the answers provided, then they should address the answers, one by one and prove that W is not trying to insult America by assuming we are a bunch of morons, like he did when he announced that illegal immigrants are nothing but an expression of 'family values'.

19 posted on 09/14/2002 6:06:50 AM PDT by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: Boonie Rat
The Congress has the power to authorize warfare, not the President; yet a formal declaration of war never was, and has never been, required by the Constitution.

Presently, the Congress has authorized both the preparations for warfare, as well as warfare, for a variety of military situations in which is, or may be, the United States.

The United States has been at war against Iraq since the beginning of the Gulf War; Great Britain and the United States have shouldered the burden to enforce the conditional 1991 cease-fire.

Because the World of Fascist Islam "from Malaysia to Morocco," has formally attacked the United States on September 11, 2001, and did so with prior knowledge of such attacks by several of the Islamic States (and some socialist states), the United States will for some time be at war against the ever-changing conspirators of those states among themselves and with the powers of world socialism, because that axis of a terrorism needs to be killed as matter of defending ourselves from such killers of life and liberty.

The present front lines in Iraq, held by the allies, Great Britain and the United States, are expected to change, according to Tony Blair and George Bush in their recent announcements; the immediate reasons for this, can be found in such announcements.

The present front lines against the axis of terrorism may also be expected to change.

The United States is not yet prepared for these challenges.

This is a world war against the Axis of terrorism, and the tasks will require both clever and conventional methods of warfare; and the United States has not yet the conventional strength.

20 posted on 09/14/2002 6:10:04 AM PDT by First_Salute
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To: 11B3
And just why is Lew Rockwell a sacred cow?

LR isn't a "sacred cow", but what does attacking LR add to the discussion?

Boonie Rat

MACV SOCOM, PhuBai/Hue '65-'66

21 posted on 09/14/2002 6:19:39 AM PDT by Boonie Rat
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To: jwalsh07
I disagree with you. We did not attack the Soviet Union because we followed Kennan's policy of containment. This policy was in response to the realization that Fuchs, etc. had gotten the bomb making techniques to the USSR.

We had much more than adequate provocation, if one uses the new "Bush" doctrine of evil people with evil designs on us attempting to acquire WOD. If one does not, then the Soviet involvement in Vietnam, Africa, Cuba, the Berlin blockade, and other places were adequate.

No, the point of the question is correct: we are choosing our enemies based upon their negatively correlated ability to strike back, with little, if any, reference to morality or even the interests of the US.

22 posted on 09/14/2002 6:24:29 AM PDT by jammer
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To: Boonie Rat
Discussion of the premise of the article welcomed.

The premise is based on supporting the questions. The questions are all leading in that regard.

Paul worded the questions (poorly if you ask me), and the answers fell right into the trap.

23 posted on 09/14/2002 6:28:50 AM PDT by mhking
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To: CIB-173RDABN
The threat to the United States (and the western world) is the entire middle east. Afghaistan was step one. Iraq is step two. If the other countries in the region do not get the message, then one of them will be step three.

I think one of the points made, and one of the questions asked but not answered, is why is Iraq step two? WE DO NOT HAVE EVIDENCE OF THAT AND CANNOT PRODUCE IT. I feel much more immediate danger from Dearborn, MI and from the followers of Farrakhan in Chicago than I do from Saddam.

Even if I were to see evidence of involvement, I would ask, what's next after step two--whether the other countries get the message or not? Even if they do not and we take them out, then what do we do? Do we set up an American hegemony there? No, we cannot. Then what? Go after other Islamic nations or nations with large Islamic populations? Are we going to Indonesia? China? Even England and Germany? We are setting ourselves up for disaster, IMHO.

No, one of the main answers to the question of what to do is the immigration question--the very one that Pat Buchanan raised (BTW I voted for Bush, not Buchanan).

24 posted on 09/14/2002 6:35:44 AM PDT by jammer
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To: Boonie Rat
Seriously, why does Ritter get all the credibility from you guys when all the other UN inspectors
disagree with him? Especially when you consider the fact that Ritter is the only one who
received money from Iraqi sources.
25 posted on 09/14/2002 6:41:37 AM PDT by Gumption
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To: Boonie Rat
I'm not attacking LR so much as the LP. I'm quite thankful that the LP is not in power, as they would have been worse than even Gore or Nader - especially on foreign relations/national security. Since the issue of attacking Iraq falls under that heading, it seems to me that the virulent anti-war stance of the LP and LR basically excludes them from any serious discussion involving those issues. I don't care what the circumstances are, this source would be against any use of American military power - even if it would save millions of lives. Additionally, I fail to understand how it is that by posting this screed you get to determine what is or isn't discussed. Starting a post with that attitude only begs for the opposite.

BTW - what was your MOS? I've seen your unit ID on all of your posts, but I still don't know your position within that unit.

26 posted on 09/14/2002 6:43:52 AM PDT by 11B3
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To: jammer
We are setting ourselves up for disaster, IMHO

This is where we differ. You believe if we do anything, we are heading for disaster. I believe if we do NOT do something, we are heading for disaster.

I will admit it would be much easier if a country had declared war against us rather than an idealogy, but we are in a war even if you can not see it.

There is a cancer alive in this world today called terrorism. For over 40 years, the nations of the world have treated these terrorist acts as a crime. The terrorist have a certain advantage when we treat it as a crime. They lose that advantage when we treat it as war.

The nation states in the middle east have been able to support terrorist with very little down side to themself. President Bush has put them on notice, no more.

What is step three you ask, I don't know but it is not too late for these countries to take themself out of contention for that honor.

So you wait for your "proof" I only hope it is not one of loved ones the die so you can be morally certain who to go after.

27 posted on 09/14/2002 6:56:21 AM PDT by CIB-173RDABN
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To: CIB-173RDABN
Don't expect much of a response from that one. hooahh.
28 posted on 09/14/2002 7:00:02 AM PDT by 11B3
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: John W; Boonie Rat; tpaine; B. A. Conservative; Tauzero; OWK; paulklenk; Twodees; balrog666; ...


To: Boonie Rat
Resignation Letter of William S. Ritter, Jr. to the United Nations 26 August 1998

Dear Mr. Butler,
"...The Special Commission was created for the purpose of disarming Iraq..."

"...clearly indicates that the organization which created the Special Commission in its resolution 687 (1991) is no longer willing and/or capable of the implementation of its own law..."

"...Iraq has lied to the Special Commission and the world since day one concerning the true scope and nature of its proscribed programs and weapons systems..."


"...the Iraqi leadership that has succeeded in thwarting the stated will of the United Nations..."

Sincerely, (signed)
Willam S. Ritter, Jr.

# 4 by John W

*************************

Iraq should hide it's weapons.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I still define a sovereign nation as being one that is "self-governing, and not ruled by any other state."

No government gave up it's sovereignity by joining the United Nations treaty organization. Member nations did not become junior partners, like the present States of our nation are subservient to the national government in Washington.

Why then does the United States ignore the requirements of our own Constitution, and go to war at the direction of a foreign power? Why then is Iraq expected to surender it's right of self-defense at the order of that same foreign power, the United Nations?

If our national government decided tomorrow to ban all weapons ownership, millions of private arms would immediately "disappear" from official view. That is an appropriate response to the tyranny of outlawing a basic right, the right of self-defense.

Just as an individual man has the right of defense, so a nation has that right.

Just as an individual is fully justified in lying and hiding his weapons, so a nation is justified in lying and hiding it's weapons from foreign invaders.

30 posted on 09/14/2002 7:10:21 AM PDT by exodus
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To: jammer
No, the point of the question is correct: we are choosing our enemies based upon their negatively correlated ability to strike back, with little, if any, reference to morality or even the interests of the US.

America had nukes in the early 40's and by 45 they had been deployed to devasting effect.

The Soviets did not not even detonate their first nuke until 1949. They fit your description of "inability to strike back" in the interim and for some time afterward yet we didn't strike.

Saddam Hussein is an irrational whackjob currently in possession of CB weapons and on the verge of Nuclear devices. He pays bounty to terrorists, his nation is on everybodys top ten terrorist list and this nation has been under attack by the radical Islamists since Jimmy Carter failed to act in 1980 with ever increasingly violent attacks culminating in September 11, 2001.

Hussein is just another skell in a long line of skells that needs to be dealt with now because the foothold that the radical Islamists and Arabists have established is a clear and present danger to America in general and my grandkids in particular.

Bush recognises the immensity of the situation, you and Ron Paul don't.

Thankfully, President Bush has the brains to recognise it and the balls to do something about it before it hits terminal velocity.

31 posted on 09/14/2002 7:14:05 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: exodus
Why then is Iraq expected to surender it's right of self-defense at the order of that same foreign power, the United Nations?

What a stupid argument. So you're saying that "sovereignty" is so sacrosanct that NO ONE can band together against a "sovereign" nation even if that nation represents a dire threat.

Okay, in that case, the United States was in the WRONG to joing the Allied Powers that "violated" Germany's sovereignty in 1918. Oh, and again in 1945.

C'mon, man, get yer head out yer ***.

32 posted on 09/14/2002 7:18:53 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: exodus
Thanks for the ping exodus.

Who is this Hornberger person? Anybody know?

33 posted on 09/14/2002 7:20:08 AM PDT by Ragin1
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To: exodus
Why then is Iraq expected to surender it's right of self-defense at the order of that same foreign power

For the same reason Japan and Germany had to, they lost a war and signed surrender terms that required them to do so. What is so hard to understand about that?

34 posted on 09/14/2002 7:20:11 AM PDT by Gumption
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To: Gumption; Boonie Rat
To:
How come "they" only use Ritter's opinion, and only his recent opinions at that, when there are more than one former UN Inspector voicing opinions on the Iraqi threat? Maybe because he's the only ONE "challenging the administration's thesis that Iraq is a threat to the United States" and the rest support the "administration's thesis"?
# 7 by Gumption

*************************

If every former and current member of the United Nations unanimously supported the hegemony of the U.N. over all the nations of the Earth, I would still say that our participation in the unlawful actions of the U.N. violate the Comstitution of our nation.

No nation gave up it's sovereignty by joining the United Nations treaty organization.

35 posted on 09/14/2002 7:20:49 AM PDT by exodus
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To: Boonie Rat
Good post Boonie. I just put it on the hardrive. The most interesting threads have a knack of dissappearing.
36 posted on 09/14/2002 7:24:03 AM PDT by Ragin1
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To: exodus
You completely missed my point.

If all the WEAPONS INSPECTORS say Saddam still HAS WMD's, except one, why bellow the beliefs of that one to bolster your argument? Especially when you consider the fact that Ritter is the only one who received money from Iraqi sources.

37 posted on 09/14/2002 7:29:03 AM PDT by Gumption
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To: Illbay
Why then does the United States ignore the requirements of our own Constitution, and go to war at the direction of a foreign power? Why then is Iraq expected to surender it's right of self-defense at the order of that same foreign power, the United Nations?

To: exodus
What a stupid argument. So you're saying that "sovereignty" is so sacrosanct that NO ONE can band together against a "sovereign" nation even if that nation represents a dire threat.

Okay, in that case, the United States was in the WRONG to joing the Allied Powers that "violated" Germany's sovereignty in 1918. Oh, and again in 1945.

# 32 by Illbay

*************************

Sovereignty is so sacrosanct that NO ONE should be allowed to desecrate it.

Having allies is not a problem. Going to war by our own decision is not a problem. However, if England had declared that we were at war with Germany in WW 2, THAT would be a problem.

The United States went to war with Iraq at the ORDER of the United Nations, in violation of our own sovereignty, and in violation of our written Constitution.

38 posted on 09/14/2002 7:31:03 AM PDT by exodus
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To: exodus
If tomorrow, a "nuclear bloom" should appear over Tel Aviv, what should be the response?
39 posted on 09/14/2002 7:34:16 AM PDT by First_Salute
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To: exodus
No nation gave up it's sovereignty by joining the United Nations treaty organization.

I assume you're a libertarina so lets talk libertarian speak. Hussein put his name to contracts agreeing to certain penalties in return for a suspension of hostilities. He has fraudulently reneged on those contracts. Now, it is time to pay the piper.

What philosophy is it that you adhere to that looks favorably on men who lie, break contracts and murder indiscriminately?

40 posted on 09/14/2002 7:34:34 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Ragin1
Who is this Hornberger person? Anybody know?
# 33 by Ragin1

*************************

This is the first time I noticed his name.

He's writer at Lew Rockwell, so I'd be inclined to trust him

41 posted on 09/14/2002 7:35:50 AM PDT by exodus
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To: Boonie Rat
You've been here a long time which is why I expect you're given leeway in posting this garbage -- the fourth or fifth post of this I've seen.

Posting Ron Paul's nonsense mutiple times a day doesn't make any more coherent.

42 posted on 09/14/2002 7:40:42 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: Gumption
No government gave up it's sovereignity by joining the United Nations treaty organization.... Why then is Iraq expected to surender it's right of self-defense at the order of that same foreign power

To: exodus
For the same reason Japan and Germany had to, they lost a war and signed surrender terms that required them to do so. What is so hard to understand about that?
# 34 by Gumption

*************************

An agreement made under duress has no force.

No man may be told to surrender his right of self-defense, not even if he was convicted of a crime.

No nation may be told to surrender it's right of self-defense, not even after losing a war.

43 posted on 09/14/2002 7:41:01 AM PDT by exodus
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To: Illbay
Time will prove if Bush is right. So far there has been little proof that Sadaam is the serious threat that the administration has presented. If we go in and find that there is no nuclear arsenal, rhis will backfire on all involved. Bush senior railed against Sadaam and at least convinced the world that Sadaam needed to be expelled from Kuwait. He was right on this.

However, when he failed to oust Sadaam and the economy went South, he ushered in the Presidency of Bill Clinton and we have suffered ever since. We now face similar circumstances with Junior riding the wave of patriotism and his popularity skyrocketing. If GW can get on top of our economy, he can go down as one of our all-time great Presidents. If he fails, we are set up for a fall.

44 posted on 09/14/2002 7:43:20 AM PDT by meenie
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To: exodus
He's writer at Lew Rockwell, so I'd be inclined to trust him

Lew Rockwell is one of the leftiest antiAmerican creeps I've ever read.

Who needs Daschle or Boxer if you've got that guy.

I really cannot understand that anyone who would frequent Free Republic would be fooled in this way.

The concerted attemtps to publish this tripe indicates to me why.

Parasitic cockroaches.

45 posted on 09/14/2002 7:44:08 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: exodus
No man may be told to surrender his right of self-defense, not even if he was convicted of a crime.

You would allow guns in prison????????

46 posted on 09/14/2002 7:45:19 AM PDT by Gumption
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To: jwalsh07
"Hussein put his name to contracts agreeing to certain penalties in return for a suspension of hostilities."

Is any contract legal and binding, signed from the wrong end of the gun?

47 posted on 09/14/2002 7:48:04 AM PDT by Ragin1
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To: exodus
Why then is Iraq expected to surender it's right of self-defense at the order of that same foreign power, the United Nations?

You're forgetting the agreement that Iraq signed after the Gulf War.

If Iraq proved that it had no WOD nor program to develop such, the sanctions would be lifted and Iraq could rejoin the family of civilized nations.

Iraq doesn't want to do this, of course, because Hussein is a lawless thug.

He's got to go.

48 posted on 09/14/2002 7:48:06 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Gumption
To: exodus
You completely missed my point. If all the WEAPONS INSPECTORS say Saddam still HAS WMD's, except one, why bellow the beliefs of that one to bolster your argument? Especially when you consider the fact that Ritter is the only one who received money from Iraqi sources.
# 37 by Gumption

*************************

The messenger has nothing to do with my beliefs. I felt the same when we first went to war against Iraq at the order of the United Nations years ago.

Also, I didn't miss your point, I addressed your point.

"If every former and current member of the United Nations unanimously supported the hegemony of the U.N. over all the nations of the Earth, I would still say that our participation in the unlawful actions of the U.N. violate the Comstitution of our nation.

No nation gave up it's sovereignty by joining the United Nations treaty organization."

49 posted on 09/14/2002 7:49:19 AM PDT by exodus
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To: Ragin1
Is any contract legal and binding, signed from the wrong end of the gun?

Absolutely. More libertarian speak:

Iraq "aggressed" against Kuwait, amongst others, of course. They were repelled and pursuant to the Rules of War signed an unconditional cease fire that contractually obligated them to certain requirements. They committed fraud by not living up to those agreements and are not the subject of non initiatory force because they initiated it in the first place.

50 posted on 09/14/2002 7:52:12 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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