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Cynthia Tucker on Augusta National (prepare to scream in technicolor)
AJC ^ | 9/14/02 | Cynthia Tucker

Posted on 09/14/2002 8:36:19 AM PDT by groanup

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/opinion/tucker/index.html


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: augustanational; cynthiatucker; masters
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I ran a search, twice. Didn't see it.
1 posted on 09/14/2002 8:36:19 AM PDT by groanup
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To: groanup
LINK
2 posted on 09/14/2002 8:42:24 AM PDT by Dallas
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To: groanup
"I cannot comprehend any sport that covets the lowest score. Even the wondrous Tiger Woods has not overcome my low regard for a game in which grown folks whack a white ball around an otherwise luxurious green lawn despoiled by gopher holes." -- Cynthia Tucker

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

3 posted on 09/14/2002 8:57:32 AM PDT by Grit
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To: groanup
I'm an avid golfer and the Masters is my favorite tournament, but, Tucker is right. The reluctance of Augusta to even consider a woman as a member is medieval.

It is a private club and in my opinion they have the right to set any rules they desire. That doesn't mean I have to applaud their decisions.

4 posted on 09/14/2002 9:09:46 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: Bob J
A FReeper yesterday suggested they nominate Ann Coulter and be done with it! :-)
5 posted on 09/14/2002 9:13:30 AM PDT by JennysCool
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To: Bob J
I don't think the absence of women in this club is all that remarkable. While it used to be more of a typical country club (my grandfather was a member way back when, but he was an Augusta native and helped Mr. Jones assemble the land for the club), it has become so exclusive that even asking to join is the kiss of death. Given the number of men who play versus the number of women, and the extreme exclusivity, it's no surprise that a woman hasn't happened to become a member. She would have to be a high-up business executive with excellent Richmond County and Georgia connections and a quality golfer as well. Ladies like that are just a little thin on the ground in middle GA.
6 posted on 09/14/2002 9:16:17 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother
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To: groanup
Go Hootie!!!!
7 posted on 09/14/2002 9:22:04 AM PDT by Not now, Not ever!
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To: All
Gosh, a place where women can't go! Based on that flimsy argument, we ought to have unisex restrooms. If women want to play golf, there are numerous places and opportunities to do so. This is a CLUB, with membership requirements. Although sometimes unfair, there IS a "right" of association.....
8 posted on 09/14/2002 9:35:42 AM PDT by Malcolm
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To: Grit
Wasn't it Twain who summarized golf as "a good walk spoiled?"
9 posted on 09/14/2002 9:37:28 AM PDT by Norman Conquest
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To: AnAmericanMother
The thing that some of them don't seem to realize is, that being a white male is not an automatic shoe-in for membership. I'm a white guy, and I wouldn't stand a chance at becoming a member. If people aren't accepted at certain private institutions, let them go start their own club/whatever. I have never understood this obsession among some people to ingratiate themselves on others.
10 posted on 09/14/2002 9:38:21 AM PDT by Paul Atreides
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To: Dallas
thanks
11 posted on 09/14/2002 9:41:19 AM PDT by groanup
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To: Paul Atreides
I sure can understand it, and I don't even play golf! My grandfather tried to get us grandkids interested, but it just didn't click. I do remember going down to Augusta with him once as a very small child and getting the grand tour of the course, it is stunningly beautiful. I don't feel I appreciated it enough at the time, I hope he didn't take it to heart; I was very small. My mom however was a very good golfer, she played the Augusta course quite a bit under his aegis. He was a VERY serious and devoted golfer, as are most members of Augusta. (Useless trivia: the creek on the 12th hole is named for him.)

He did, however, get us all interested in shooting! He was almost as devoted a duck hunter as he was a golfer . . . I may have said this before, but he was a "sitting in the predawn fog and rain sharing a tarp with a wet Lab and three inches of water in the bottom of the boat on the Eastern Shore" kinda duck hunter. I'm not THAT serious . . . prefer upland birds to ducks . . . but I DO have a Labrador.

12 posted on 09/14/2002 9:44:34 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother
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To: Paul Atreides
Atlanta National Golf Club in North Atlanta has an upstairs men's grill where women aren't allowed. Country Club of the South in North Atlanta has a men's grill in the men's locker room where women aren't allowed. East Lake Golf Club in East Atlanta limits membership to fortune 100 companies and only one designated and one alternate have playing privileges. The initiation dues are $50,000 plus a $200,000 donation to the charitable foundation that owns the club. But you can't join. They do have some residual female members, however. The Oglethorpe Club in Savannah does not allow women upstairs. Settin' Down Creek Golf Club in North Atlanta has never seen a woman darken its doors as far as I can tell.

This Martha Burk character is just a publicity hound. If she really cares about the issues she would attack some of the less famous clubs.

13 posted on 09/14/2002 9:52:22 AM PDT by groanup
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To: groanup
Freedom of association allows people to choose whom the will associate with and without. Golf, like any game, has rules that make no sense outside of the game. Tucker complains to hear herself complain. I don't like golf and I do like associating with women but to each his (or her) own.
14 posted on 09/14/2002 9:52:40 AM PDT by muir_redwoods
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To: AnAmericanMother
"(Useless trivia: the creek on the 12th hole is named for him.)"

Salutations to Mr. Ray.

15 posted on 09/14/2002 9:54:28 AM PDT by groanup
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To: Bob J
The reluctance of Augusta to even consider a woman as a member is medieval.

Your reeducation is complete. You may move on.

I'm not a scientist, but there appears to be some basic differences between the male and female of most species. Only ball-busters would see that mode of thinking as medieval.

16 posted on 09/14/2002 9:59:10 AM PDT by Glenn
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To: groanup
This Martha Burk character is just a publicity hound. If she really cares about the issues she would attack some of the less famous clubs.

LOL! In life, there is a certain type of woman whose whole life is devoted to making sure that men don't have a good time.

17 posted on 09/14/2002 10:01:24 AM PDT by Paul Atreides
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To: Paul Atreides
"In life, there is a certain type of woman whose whole life is devoted to making sure that men don't have a good time"

That is going in my quote archives.

18 posted on 09/14/2002 10:04:39 AM PDT by groanup
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To: groanup
It's actually Rae, but that misspelling is making the rounds.

The Raes are a relatively old Augusta family; my gg grandfather John Rae emigrated from Scotland to Augusta in the 1860s. They were businessmen and small tradesmen for many years. No Raes left in Augusta now AFAIK, except in Magnolia Cemetery. My grandfather asked to be buried there, and he and his beloved wife "Bunny" are laid side by side in the old family plot just outside the office door.

19 posted on 09/14/2002 10:22:40 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother
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To: groanup
And just to haul this whole thing back on topic . . .

My grandfather was a kinda hard-nosed business type, but he was also a traditional Southern gentleman. I don't think he'd really see a problem here, because in his world it was the duty of a gentleman to honor a lady and make her happy - always within the bounds of truth and courtesy. If a lady wanted to play golf, I am sure that he would have figured out a way to get her on to the course as his guest to play to her heart's content. Now, if her real intention was not to play golf, but to push her way into the membership or make a splash or pursue some other agenda, then he would have (in his courteous way) figured out some way to forestall her intentions. And he would have treated a man who was trying to use Augusta National as a stalking horse in exactly the same way (although probably with less overt courtesy! :-D ) I'm sure the powers that be have had all sorts of people trying to get into the club for all the wrong reasons . . . to make business deals, to pad out their resume, to impress their friends, etc. etc. . . . ALL those motives would probably disqualify a prospective member.

20 posted on 09/14/2002 10:33:36 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother
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To: Norman Conquest
Wasn't it Twain who summarized golf as "a good walk spoiled?"

It was John Daily that said," Golf is good walk oiled."

21 posted on 09/14/2002 10:39:07 AM PDT by vikzilla
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To: Glenn
I'm not a scientist, but there appears to be some basic differences between the male and female of most species. Only ball-busters would see that mode of thinking as medieval.

I see. I mut have lost my mind or something.

Differences in the genders justifies separate restroom facilities, not membership in golf clubs.

If the members of Augusta believe golf is only for men, so be it, but I believe it to be throwback to the good old boys mentality. Woman golfers have a lot to offer not only as players, but as contributing members. If they decided to start a Men's Club where they discuss men issues and engage in men activities (like seeing how far they can piss), I'd say go for it. There is no logical reason to exclude woman from a Golf Club.

22 posted on 09/14/2002 11:07:16 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: AnAmericanMother
Let's not muddy the water. Augusta has a don't ask don't tell policy about excluding women. The fact that quality women have applied and never been accepted, and, that no woman has ever had an invitiation extended, speaks for itself. The fact that they can't even bring themselves to put the token woman on board is revealing.
23 posted on 09/14/2002 11:11:36 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: vikzilla
I thought it was "golf is a good buzz spoiled"?
24 posted on 09/14/2002 11:12:09 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: groanup
I will fully support her efforts to admit women as members to Augusta National after women are allowed to join Kabul Creek and Saudi National Country Clubs.
25 posted on 09/14/2002 11:15:57 AM PDT by Fair Paul
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To: Malcolm
Gosh, a place where women can't go! Based on that flimsy argument, we ought to have unisex restrooms. If women want to play golf, there are numerous places and opportunities to do so. This is a CLUB, with membership requirements. Although sometimes unfair, there IS a "right" of association.....

Free association and property rights. I have the right to invite anybody I want to my home and to reject anybody I want. It is my property. Augusta is private property - they can invite and reject anybody they want as well. If these women want an exclusive club, they are free to start their own.

These women don't want to be members of any exclusive club; they just want to be privy to any private conversations that these guys might have. They're busybodies that need to make sure nobody is talking about them.

I have to ask, isn't there anywhere guys can go where women aren't around all the time? I mean, I love women, but one needs to get away once in a while.

26 posted on 09/14/2002 11:26:23 AM PDT by meyer
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To: Bob J
If the members of Augusta believe golf is only for men, so be it, but I believe it to be throwback to the good old boys mentality.

I'm sorry, but the members of Augusta haven't said that golf is "only for men". What they have said is that they are a private club that allows only men to join. And not just any men; selected men that they choose to invite. Just like guests on any other private property are chosen. By invitation.

27 posted on 09/14/2002 11:29:58 AM PDT by meyer
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To: Bob J
The fact that quality women have applied and never been accepted, and, that no woman has ever had an invitiation extended, speaks for itself.

One does not apply to become a member at Augusta, one is invited. Bill Gates tried to buy his way in and was told to get lost. Simply asking to join is the kiss of death. Arnold Palmer finally was invited in 1999. Their club, their rules and it's all perfectly legal and contemporary.

28 posted on 09/14/2002 11:31:06 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: Bob J
What "quality woman" do you know of that has applied and not been accepted? Name please. (Of course, the only way you would know that is if you were sitting on the board. The process is confidential, unless a disappointed applicant blabs to the public, which he or she would never do, assuming he or she has any shame.)

Here's what you don't understand: If you APPLY - man or woman - you are TURNED DOWN. Asking to be invited is the kiss of death. Lobbying to be invited is the kiss of death. And, for heaven's sake, taking your case to the NEWSPAPERS is the ultimate kiss of death. Doesn't matter if you're male or female.

This Burke person never had any intention of getting a lady golfer in to Augusta, she's only interested in getting publicity for her rad/fem organization. If a lady candidate is presented in the proper way, she will get in. But you and I will never hear about it, because she will be a discreet, somewhat traditional, businesswoman with a passion for golf.

29 posted on 09/14/2002 11:34:46 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother
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To: AnAmericanMother

30 posted on 09/14/2002 11:38:36 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: meyer
I didn't say it was illegal, I just don't agree with it.
31 posted on 09/14/2002 11:43:29 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
I didn't say it was illegal, I just don't agree with it.
32 posted on 09/14/2002 11:43:48 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: AnAmericanMother
Understood. I agree that Burke is looking for attention and scandal, she can pound sand for all I'm concerned.

As far as "applying", there are other ways to let it be known that someone is interested in being a member without filling out an application. The fact is a Augusta has never extended a membership to a woman and they've made it plain that they consider themselves to be a men's only club. It's thier property and they can do with it as they wish, I just happen to believe it is rather silly.

33 posted on 09/14/2002 11:47:08 AM PDT by Bob J
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To: Bob J
Whew! Bob!

Remind me not to go to any stag parties you throw on someone's private property. I'm guessin' there would be a lot of Tupperware and Avon involved.
34 posted on 09/14/2002 11:59:54 AM PDT by HighWheeler
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To: Bob J
There is no logical reason to exclude woman from a Golf Club.

Yes there is, because you don't want women in your club.....period.

35 posted on 09/14/2002 12:06:04 PM PDT by AAABEST
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To: Bob J
I didn't say it was illegal

I didn't say you did.

36 posted on 09/14/2002 12:14:26 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: HighWheeler
Excluding women form a stag party would be a reasonable expection.
37 posted on 09/14/2002 12:31:54 PM PDT by Bob J
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To: AAABEST
Hmmm, I see you're logic.
38 posted on 09/14/2002 12:32:34 PM PDT by Bob J
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
Their club, their rules and it's all perfectly legal and contemporary.

You're note on legality implied I may have questioned it. BTW - I don't agree that it is contemporary.

39 posted on 09/14/2002 12:34:02 PM PDT by Bob J
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To: Bob J
I didn't say it was illegal, I just don't agree with it.

If you care about property rights and the right to free association, you ought to agree with it. Why? Because just as nobody has the right to tell you who you can invite to, say, a dinner party, neither does anybody have the right to tell Augusta who they can invite as members of their private club.

And just as Augusta's management are free to invite and reject whomever they please, so are you granted that right. And so are the feminazi complainers when they decide to start their own private golf club.

Its not about exclusion or inclusion - Its about freedom.

40 posted on 09/14/2002 12:36:57 PM PDT by meyer
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To: Bob J
Now you're shifting your ground.

You originally said, "The fact that quality women have applied and never been accepted, and, that no woman has ever had an invitiation extended, speaks for itself."

You have NO way of knowing who has been considered for membership, unless you are on the board. The club has never "made it plain that they consider themselves to be a men-only club." They have made it plain that their membership is their own business, and they will not be blackmailed, threatened, or browbeaten into admitting anyone. (And three cheers for them!)

For all we know, the committee was considering a lady with the proper qualifications. (My guess for the first candidate would be the widow of a very popular member. That's the usual way to open a previously all-male club to women. They may create a special "widow of member" category as an interim, but that too will pass.) Assuming this paragon of ladies exists, she is (as she would have to be) a discreet and traditional lady, and I'm sure the committee has asked her to "lay low", like Br'er Fox, until this all blows over. And, being a lady, she has responded, "Of course." Cursing Burke under her breath.

41 posted on 09/14/2002 12:54:17 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
Isn't that pretty! Like a Southern version of a Moreland.

Thanks!

42 posted on 09/14/2002 12:59:10 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother
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To: AnAmericanMother
"...in his world it was the duty of a gentleman to honor a lady and make her happy - always within the bounds of truth and courtesy."

You come from an admirable pedigree.

43 posted on 09/14/2002 2:09:30 PM PDT by groanup
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To: Bob J
You're note on legality implied I may have questioned it.

You are mistaken. I have no qualms about being explicit; no need for me to imply anything.

BTW - I don't agree that it is contemporary.

Hootie Johnson, Augusta National and the vast majority of America disagrees with your opinion. You have one vote, everyone else has one vote and on this issue you are in the distinct minority.

44 posted on 09/14/2002 3:29:36 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: Bob J
If the members of Augusta believe golf is only for men, so be it, but I believe it to be throwback to the good old boys mentality.

When have you ever heard anyone say that the members of Augusta National believe golf is only for men? You're typical of feminists. Make it up as you go along. Forget the facts. They're not important. Perhaps you've missed the dozens of posts telling people of your ilk that women play plenty of golf at Augusta. They just aren't members.

45 posted on 09/14/2002 3:30:27 PM PDT by Glenn
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To: groanup
He was a very fine gentleman, and a credit to the family. A bit stern until you got to know him (that Scots Presbyterian thing), but with a true heart of gold. And he adored my grandmother all his life (they were childhood sweethearts), cherished my mom, and would have done anything for his grandchildren. We were very, very lucky to have him.
46 posted on 09/14/2002 3:44:23 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother
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To: Bob J
There is no logical reason to exclude woman from a Golf Club.

If I was ever allowed to join a womans spa, they would never let another woman join.

They would want to keep me all to themselves.

Ane that is not fair either.

47 posted on 09/14/2002 4:11:47 PM PDT by biffalobull
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To: AnAmericanMother
"We were very, very lucky to have him."

Just as your children and family are very lucky to have you. I sense a set of values that are rare these days.

48 posted on 09/14/2002 4:17:11 PM PDT by groanup
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To: meyer
To "meyer" Re: your comment to my post on the NAACP addresses cheerleading post 73 of 93: You said, You forgot the (/sarcasm) tag. My comment to "meyer": I wasn't being sarcastic, I meant what I said!!! cheers, cie
49 posted on 09/14/2002 6:31:56 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: biffalobull
If I was ever allowed to join a womans spa, they would never let another woman join.

Just so we get this straight, in terms of membership and gender, you are equating a golf club with a woman's spa?

50 posted on 09/14/2002 10:53:48 PM PDT by Bob J
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