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Despite equality, women today still prefer gentlemen
The UK Telegraph ^ | 9-20-02 | By Sarah Womack Social Affairs Correspondent

Posted on 09/19/2002 5:26:17 PM PDT by vannrox

Despite equality, women today still prefer gentlemen




Working out the difference between chivalry and sexism may be a minefield for men, but most women would prefer them to be more gallant, a survey has found.

While acknowledging that the sexual revolution is partly to blame for the destruction of the old- fashioned gentleman, half of women say men have little concept of social etiquette, politeness or courtesy.

They accuse men of behaving like gentlemen only when it suits them, although that view is held by seven out of 10 men themselves. One in 50 men say gentlemanly behaviour is for "snobs and wimps".

Dr David Lewis, a psychologist, said men who were successful in business and sport were still regarded highly by women. But chivalry and social graces, such as pulling out chairs, carrying the shopping, complimenting a woman on her appearance and opening doors, were often more important than money.

Dr Lewis, author of Loving and Loathing: The Enigma of Personal Attraction, said: "Because more male than female babies are being born, society is becoming increasingly unbalanced.

"This means competition between men for a partner will become fiercer, with men having to work harder to find and sustain a relationship. The British gentleman is on the verge of a renaissance."

The average male could still be forgiven, however, for being confused. Even the issue of wolf-whistling from builders is not clear cut. Women have become accustomed to ignoring ribald commentary and builders are now threatened with the sack if they flirt with passers-by. But many women would prefer the attention and "male honesty".

According to the poll of 800 adults for Glenlivet, the whisky brand, which is opening a male finishing school, it also depends on where a woman lives as to how she defines chivalry.

Women in Somerset and Herefordshire are most likely to complain about the dearth of gallantry, whereas women in London and the South East are least likely to consider it a problem. Overall, one in seven women think gentlemen are quiet, modest and "never brash".

Both sexes thought the death knell for gentlemanly behaviour was sounded during the Sixties. Optimistically for British males, a third of women thought true gentlemen were found only in the UK.

They scored highest for their capacity for chivalry, followed by Japanese men and Italians. American, Australian and German men scored lowest.

Tony Blair is regarded as the most gentlemanly politician. John Prescott came bottom.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Philosophy; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: change; gender; men; polite; rights; unusual; women
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Hum....
1 posted on 09/19/2002 5:26:17 PM PDT by vannrox
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To: vannrox
"The average male could still be forgiven, however, for being confused..." Should be the Title of this article!!!;)
2 posted on 09/19/2002 5:31:52 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay
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To: fight_truth_decay
Only due to the feminazis, who hate men and want children to be raised by Two Mommies.
3 posted on 09/19/2002 5:34:03 PM PDT by goldstategop
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To: vannrox; MadIvan
Tony Blair is regarded as the most gentlemanly politician.

'ERE! 'E's a bleedin' POOF!

4 posted on 09/19/2002 5:39:13 PM PDT by martin_fierro
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To: vannrox
Still prefer gentlemen--for what?? I don't know about British women, but the only use American women have for a gentleman is moving furniture. Otherwise they just look right through you, as if you aren't there.
5 posted on 09/19/2002 5:40:42 PM PDT by alpowolf
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To: vannrox
Dr Lewis, author of Loving and Loathing: The Enigma of Personal Attraction, said: "Because more male than female babies are being born, society is becoming increasingly unbalanced.

If we are talking about the US and not China where abortion of female babies causes this disparity, the "natural" situation is that slightly more boys than girls are born. But slightly more boys than girls die before the age of 2, and that trend continues into adulthood. By the time both sexes are 21 years of age, the girls are outnumbering the boys. (In the early years, because girls in effect have an extra "half" chromosome, they have better disease resistance. In the later years, boys engage more willingly in potentially fatal risk behavior.)

Therefore, I submit, Dr. Lewis is simply wrong. He has made an assertion (disparity in birth rate) and not factored in disparity in death rate. Bong! Throw him out!

6 posted on 09/19/2002 5:41:14 PM PDT by dark_lord
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To: vannrox
Gallantry is dead, I'm afraid.
7 posted on 09/19/2002 5:41:44 PM PDT by independentmind
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To: vannrox
Chivalry died in the 60s when a hippie feminist passed it some bad weed....
8 posted on 09/19/2002 5:43:42 PM PDT by nhoward14
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To: vannrox
Another survey, conducted by confectioners, revealed that consumers want products that can be maintained statically for display - but can be eaten too.
9 posted on 09/19/2002 5:44:21 PM PDT by guitfiddlist
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To: vannrox
They scored highest for their capacity for chivalry, followed by Japanese men and Italians. American, Australian and German men scored lowest.

That's funny... The British women I've talked to, and American women who have dated Brits, have all complained about how sulky, whiney, and wimpy British men are. Of course anyone who considers Tony Blair a model of maniless judgement is beyond repair.
10 posted on 09/19/2002 5:47:06 PM PDT by Welsh Rabbit
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To: alpowolf
Yea, real sleepers.......boooooooring.
11 posted on 09/19/2002 5:47:57 PM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: SouthernFreebird
Yeah, guys who beat their women up, sell drugs out of the woman's house, two-time (or three-time, four-time, etc) their women, and so on, are just soooo much more fun.
12 posted on 09/19/2002 5:50:13 PM PDT by alpowolf
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To: alpowolf
Um no, there is a happy medium between the two extremes.... It's called a real man.
13 posted on 09/19/2002 5:53:36 PM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: vannrox
"But chivalry and social graces, such as pulling out chairs, carrying the shopping, complimenting a woman on her appearance and opening doors, were often more important than money."

Someone's head is sadly disconnected. Complimenting a woman, especially in America, on her appearance, can get you fired and hauled into court on sexual harassment charges.

14 posted on 09/19/2002 5:54:21 PM PDT by nightdriver
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To: SouthernFreebird
I see your point but I don't regard a gentleman as an "extreme". You don't have to be a wuss to be a gentleman. In my mind, a gentleman, among other things, can fight like a lion and dance like Fred Astaire. I see no discord between my knowing how to waltz, and the fact that I carry a .45.
15 posted on 09/19/2002 5:57:35 PM PDT by alpowolf
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To: SouthernFreebird
Exactly.
16 posted on 09/19/2002 5:58:45 PM PDT by Hawkeye's Girl
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To: nightdriver
What a terribly sad and cynical thread.
17 posted on 09/19/2002 5:59:46 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: vannrox
The relationship between what women claim to want and what they actually want is tenuous at best.
18 posted on 09/19/2002 6:11:11 PM PDT by Anotherpundit
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To: alpowolf
The best classic definition of a gentleman is someone who never insults anyone else by accident.

What most people who talk about 'gentlemen" fail to realize is that a "gentleman" can still be rude, cruel, violent, etc., he just only acts like that when he has a damn good reason to. The best example people might be familiar with is Cary Grant in "Gone With the Wind." "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."
19 posted on 09/19/2002 6:14:19 PM PDT by Anotherpundit
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To: Thornwell Simons
True. Have you ever read Nice Guys Don't Get Laid? (I can't remember off the top of my head but the author's name is Mellon or Meillon or something like that)It's a funny, tongue-in-cheek, but at the core true, look at this point.
20 posted on 09/19/2002 6:14:43 PM PDT by alpowolf
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To: Thornwell Simons
You're on the money.
21 posted on 09/19/2002 6:15:44 PM PDT by alpowolf
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To: alpowolf
He is not on any money. Cary Grant was never in Gone with the Wind. LOL
22 posted on 09/19/2002 6:17:58 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe
I was . . just keeping you all on your toes! yeah, that's it.
23 posted on 09/19/2002 6:18:48 PM PDT by Anotherpundit
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To: Conservobabe
Details, details. LOL. I guess I've demonstrated that I'm not a movie buff!
24 posted on 09/19/2002 6:21:47 PM PDT by alpowolf
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To: Thornwell Simons
Actually, Cary Grant always seemed a true gentleman and Clark Gable, one that had to pretend. So what, they both pulled it off onscreen, at least. LOL

Yall don't know a gentleman from a lamp, it seems from this thread.

25 posted on 09/19/2002 6:23:40 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: alpowolf
clark gable, not cary grant.
26 posted on 09/19/2002 6:24:13 PM PDT by Anotherpundit
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To: Thornwell Simons; Conservobabe
Yeah, I just remembered myself. What makes that doubly bad is that I have the DVD at home.
But not to worry, Conservobabe will keep us straight. Thank you, ma'am...
27 posted on 09/19/2002 6:27:30 PM PDT by alpowolf
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To: Thornwell Simons
LOL... I wonder how many "Gone With the Wind" fans will show up at your next garage sale...
28 posted on 09/19/2002 6:30:21 PM PDT by nhoward14
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To: Conservobabe
I don't know; come to think of it, I never really liked Cary Grant's acting. Always seemed. .wooden.

I think I got them confused because Cary Grant beat out Clark Gable for The Fountainhead, and I think Clark Gable would've done a much, much better job.
29 posted on 09/19/2002 6:30:23 PM PDT by Anotherpundit
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To: Thornwell Simons
And I make ANOTHER gaffe! that was Gary Cooper. ARRg.

This is what I get for learning all my old movies from late-night marathons on cable.
30 posted on 09/19/2002 6:32:20 PM PDT by Anotherpundit
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To: vannrox
"This means competition between men for a partner will become fiercer, with men having to work harder to find and sustain a relationship.

This is a good thing!
Courting is a lost art for many men however the main reason is women
"giving out the milk for free", so to speak.

31 posted on 09/19/2002 6:33:18 PM PDT by apackof2
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To: apackof2
however the main reason is women "giving out the milk for free"

Don't I wish! I know, many men brag about all of their conquests. Divide that by ten and you'll still have too many.

32 posted on 09/19/2002 6:35:37 PM PDT by alpowolf
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To: vannrox
I appreciate people with manners and good etiquette of either sex. I hold these persons in higher esteem and give them preferential treatment where I am able. Its not a male/female thing for me, nor for others who value manners and etiquette. Those who appreciate those kinds of things will seek out others with similar values or treat them preferentialy when they encounter them randomly. It's really just that simple.
33 posted on 09/19/2002 6:35:45 PM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne
Yes, but you're a dying breed. Unfortunately, a majority of people today -- male and female -- are so ill-raised that they generally misinterpret politeness for weakness.
34 posted on 09/19/2002 6:37:36 PM PDT by Anotherpundit
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To: All
President Bush is a true gentlemen to the women in his life. One can just tell by the way he places his hand firmly on Laura's lower back to guide her through the crowds, as if to reassure her that he has control of the situation and is protecting her. One can also tell by the respectful way he treats his mother and daughters. Bush always jokes of his mother, but always compliments her and thanks her for his upbringing. I remember his waving and calling out "hi mom" at his inargural ball like a sports figure on the field. Also, at one of the balls, when one of his daughters lost her blouse in an embarrassing moment, he swung her around and looked frantically for Laura. But, he did not make her feel embarrassed of the incident. Just little things like this are proof that he is a true gentleman.

Now, contrast him to Clinton. Shall I?

35 posted on 09/19/2002 6:43:13 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: vannrox
They accuse men of behaving like gentlemen only when it suits them...

A little news flash for these women: Since the '60s gentlemanly behavior towards a woman must be earned by that woman.

By their own collective behavior, women have forfeited the privledge of automatically being considered ladies. They have chosen to directly compete with men. They have openly revelled in denigrating gallantry.

Therefore, until a woman demonstrates ladylike behavior she will not receive gallant attention.

"Having your cake and eating it too" never works. Welcome to the world of cause & effect.

36 posted on 09/19/2002 6:54:17 PM PDT by DakotaGator
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To: alpowolf
http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com/
37 posted on 09/19/2002 6:58:06 PM PDT by testforecho
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To: DakotaGator
You, sir, are not a true gentleman. How do you know that the woman you open the door for in a grocery store, a stranger to you, has met your criteria? I am laughing out loud, really.
38 posted on 09/19/2002 7:04:10 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: vannrox
What they prefer is of no interest. They are getting what they are worth and what they are creating, then complaining about it. If you aren't ladies, don't expect gentlemen.
39 posted on 09/19/2002 7:05:42 PM PDT by RLK
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To: testforecho
Interesting but wrong kind of nice guy. What this site is describing is a wuss IMHO.
40 posted on 09/19/2002 7:07:16 PM PDT by alpowolf
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To: Thornwell Simons
A good cinematic example of a gentleman deliberately insulting someone is in A Man for All Seasons when Sir Thomas More (Paul Scofield) insults his friend (Norfolk?) because he's trying to end their friendship. One line is to the effect that the English nobility would have slept through the Sermon on the Mount.
41 posted on 09/19/2002 7:08:38 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Conservobabe
You, sir, are not a true gentleman. How do you know that the woman you open the door for in a grocery store, a stranger to you, has met your criteria? I am laughing out loud, really.

LOL! Thanks for the question Conservobabe. The answer is easy. I always hold the door. The woman's reaction tells me if she's a lady (they always smile & thank you).

Prompting gentlemanly behavior is almost the same as getting a puppy to wag its tail...you just pet them!

42 posted on 09/19/2002 7:12:05 PM PDT by DakotaGator
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To: Conservobabe
President Clinton, on the other hand, is a true cad. And a stupid cad at that, as he has never thought the need to be a gentleman.

At Clinton's first inargural ball, he threw old Hillary around like a sack of potatoes on the dance floor, while waving over his shoulder at others in the room. And we never saw his daughter during the campaign until polls showed that most people had never even guessed that they had a child. And I do remember Clinton saying when Newt's mother called Hillary a bitch to Connie Chung, he said "why my mother would say the same thing". His mother was already deceased, if I recall.

A true gentleman respects the women in his life and Bill Clinton did not.

43 posted on 09/19/2002 7:12:56 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: RLK
I understand what you're saying. Rewarding bad behavior usually encourages it.

I try not to let my actions be manipulated in that fashion. A true gentleman is such in spite of those who do not value manners or honor. (Sometimes it's hard, and I confess I don't always meet my own standards. It can be a daily struggle.)

It is not for me to judge another's worthiness. It's also a bad idea to let yourself be defined by others.

44 posted on 09/19/2002 7:14:54 PM PDT by alpowolf
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To: DakotaGator
LOL! Thanks for the question Conservobabe. The answer is easy. I always hold the door. The woman's reaction tells me if she's a lady (they always smile & thank you).

As well you should, if you are a gentleman. Tis nice if a lady says thank you with a smile. (I always do). But, a true gentleman does not care if the woman does not. He knows in his heart that he is who he is, confident in his definition of gallantry.

45 posted on 09/19/2002 7:24:22 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: Conservobabe
"A true gentleman respects the women in his life and Bill Clinton did not."

So why were 2 out of 3 votes for Clinton in 1996 cast by women?

46 posted on 09/19/2002 7:32:40 PM PDT by nightdriver
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To: nightdriver
This illustrates the point I started out with. Large segments of the female population have no appreciation for real men. But that doesn't make them right. Conservobabe's statement is still correct.
47 posted on 09/19/2002 7:36:47 PM PDT by alpowolf
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To: vannrox
Funny most women tend to go for a**holes.
48 posted on 09/19/2002 7:40:00 PM PDT by weikel
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To: nightdriver
True its so sad what the feminazis did. Under the Weikelian Empire feminist would share the gallows with communist and islamic clerics.
49 posted on 09/19/2002 7:42:26 PM PDT by weikel
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To: alpowolf
A true gentleman is such in spite of those who do not value manners or honor. (Sometimes it's hard, and I confess I don't always meet my own standards. It can be a daily struggle.) It is not for me to judge another's worthiness. It's also a bad idea to let yourself be defined by others.

Wow! Will you marry me?

50 posted on 09/19/2002 7:48:30 PM PDT by grasshopper2
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