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3 Retired Generals Warn of Peril in Attacking Iraq Without Backing of U.N.
NYT via TargetIraq ^ | ERIC SCHMITT

Posted on 09/23/2002 9:38:37 PM PDT by newsperson999

Iraq news wires here
WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — Three retired four-star American generals said today that attacking Iraq without a United Nations resolution supporting military action could limit aid from allies, energize recruiting for Al Qaeda and undermine America's long-term diplomatic and economic interests.

"We must continue to persuade the other members of the Security Council of the correctness of our position, and we must not be too quick to take no for an answer," Gen. John M. Shalikashvili, a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee.

The officers' testimony came on a day when both those who appear to be rushing toward a military confrontation with Saddam Hussein and those who advocate more caution were raising their voices in support of their positions.

At a campaign stop in New Jersey, President Bush prodded the United Nations to demonstrate its relevance by standing up to Mr. Hussein. Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain, who plans to issue a 55-page intelligence dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction on Tuesday, joined Mr. Bush today in demanding tough action against Mr. Hussein.

Back in Washington some House Democrats prepared alternate resolutions to authorize the use of force with Iraq and others issued a detailed report on how much the war would cost. In California, former Vice President Al Gore, the man Mr. Bush defeated for president, harshly criticized the administration's push for war against Iraq, saying it had hurt the United States' standing and could dangerously undermine the rule of law around the world.

In their testimony before the Senate committee, the officers, including Gen. Wesley K. Clark, a former NATO military commander, and Gen. Joseph P. Hoar, a former chief of the United States Central Command, said the United States should retain the right to act unilaterally to defend its interests.

But the three commanders, some of whom warned that a war with Iraq could detract from the campaign against terrorism, said the Bush administration must work harder to exhaust diplomatic options before resorting to unilateral military action to oust President Saddam Hussein and eliminate any weapons of mass destruction Iraq may have.

"It's a question of what's the sense of urgency here, and how soon would we need to act unilaterally?" said General Clark, an Army officer who commanded allied forces in the 1999 Kosovo air war. "So far as any of the information has been presented, there is nothing that indicates that in the immediate, next hours, next days, that there's going to be nuclear-tipped missiles put on launch pads to go against our forces or our allies in the region."

A fourth military leader, Lt. Gen. Thomas G. McInerney, the former assistant vice chief of staff of the Air Force, offered a different opinion, saying the United States should act quickly in Iraq. "We should not wait to be attacked with weapons of mass destruction," he said.

Speaking in Trenton at a fund-raiser for Douglas R. Forrester, the Republican challenger for a Senate seat in New Jersey, Mr. Bush used some of his most direct and confrontational language yet about the United Nations and Iraq, making it clear that his patience for the debate within the Security Council was limited. He said in clearer terms than at any other time in the last week that if the United Nations failed to disarm Mr. Hussein, he would.

Mr. Bush said the Security Council "will tell the world whether or not they're going to be relevant, or whether or not they're going to be weak."

The president's confrontational style with the United Nations is clearly meant to keep up the pressure in a critical week, as the wording of a resolution about Iraq comes together. But it is also a risky strategy. By telling the other members of the Security Council that he will go ahead no matter what they do, Mr. Bush is, one administration official conceded, "giving the U.N. very little room of its own."

The message, he said, was, "We're going in, with you or without you."

Perhaps in response to the administration's tough tone, Russia's defense minister, Sergei B. Ivanov, said today that Russia did not necessarily oppose a new resolution. "We do not oppose the resolution tightening the inspectors' mission in Iraq," Mr. Ivanov said at a news conference in Madrid, where he is visiting, the Interfax news agency reported.

At the United Nations, Secretary General Kofi Annan today rejected comparisons of the United Nations to its ineffectual predecessor, the League of Nations, and said at a news conference, "It is a bit overstated when people say that the United Nations is facing an existential problem." Without referring directly to Mr. Bush, he added, "We are nowhere near that, and we should not really oversell that point."

Mr. Annan issued an advisory to Iraq, rejecting its assertion that it will not abide by any new Security Council resolution on the mandate of international weapons inspectors who are preparing to return to the country. The United Nations, he said, will follow "any new resolutions the council adopts, and so should Iraq."

As Mr. Bush and Mr. Annan verbally jousted, White House and Congressional aides continued to negotiate on a resolution on the use of force against Iraq that would be acceptable to both the president and bipartisan majorities in Congress. Some House Democrats began working on their own alternative language.

Lawmakers of both parties have said that the president's proposed resolution is too broad and ceded too much unchecked power to Mr. Bush.

Representative Nancy Pelosi of California, the House minority whip, said today that two centrist Democrats, Representatives Ike Skelton of Missouri and John M. Spratt Jr. of South Carolina, were drawing up their own proposed language.

Ms. Pelosi said that House Democrats would not propose a party alternative, but she held open the possibility that some Democrats could try to offer proposals of their own when the Iraq vote comes up on the House floor. Aides to Mr. Skelton, the senior Democrat on the Armed Services Committee, and Mr. Spratt, another member of the committee, confirmed that they were drawing up proposals, but held out the hope that their ideas could form a basis of common ground between the parties.

In the first effort in Congress to estimate the fiscal cost of an Iraqi war, Democrats on the House Budget Committee issued a report today putting the likely price tag at $30 billion to $60 billion, less than that for the Persian Gulf war in 1991. The gulf war cost about $60 billion at the time. But the allies picked up four-fifths of the costs of the gulf war, a level of financial support that is uncertain — if not unlikely — this time around, diplomats say.

The Democrats' estimates do not include the possible costs of a long-term peacekeeping mission or of providing aid. The report did not attempt to estimate those costs.

The Democratic report considered cases in which 250,000 American troops would win a war within either 30 or 60 days, and another in which half that number of troops would achieve the same outcome over the same periods.

At the Armed Services Committee hearing, the three generals said a United Nations resolution was important because it would isolate Mr. Hussein internationally, give skittish allies some political cover to join any military action and bolster America's long-term global aims.

"We are a global nation with global interests, and undermining the credibility of the United Nations does very little to help provide stability and security and safety to the rest of the world, where we have to operate for economic reasons and political reasons," said General Shalikashvili.

He and General Clark also suggested that Mr. Hussein might be less inclined to use chemical or biological weapons if other nations were behind an American-led campaign.

General Clark warned that attacking Iraq could divert military resources and political commitment to the global effort against Al Qaeda and possibly "supercharge" recruiting for the terrorist network.

Iraq news wires here


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: 200209; clark; dmcc; generals; hoar; iraq; johnmshalikashvili; johnshalikashvili; josephhoar; josephphoar; shalikashvili; un; unitednations; wesleyclark; wesleykclark
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1 posted on 09/23/2002 9:38:37 PM PDT by newsperson999
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To: newsperson999
Three of Clinton's Generals (perfumed princes) all suspect in their judgement.

Of course, all flag oficers above the rank of 1 star are suspect.

Actually all officers above the rank of Major in staff postions are suspect.

2 posted on 09/23/2002 9:46:09 PM PDT by dts32041
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To: newsperson999
I may be mistaken, but I believe that Gen. John M. Shalikashvili was a Clinton appointee. I've never seen a Clinton appointee that I felt was worth ten pounds of cement, but he could be the first. I doubt it. Give me a dollar and the opinion of a Clinton appointee and I'll be able to buy a newspaper. Other than that I wouldn't place much value on their comments.
3 posted on 09/23/2002 9:46:24 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: newsperson999
What was the term that Rumsfeld used the other day when referring to the scaredy cats at the Pentagon? Whatever it is, these three fall into that category and are the main reason why nothing was done during the Clinton Administration.
4 posted on 09/23/2002 9:46:37 PM PDT by mass55th
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: newsperson999
But the three commanders, some of whom warned that a war with Iraq could detract from the campaign against terrorism

As good as the education provided by West Point is, it's obviously no guarantee that you won't come out an idiot.

If they can't see Iraq and terrorism as one continuum, then they've probably got a bit of a problem with all sorts of causal relationships...or to put it in geometric terms, they probably have difficulty differentiating between their bodily orifices and oil wells.

6 posted on 09/23/2002 9:47:40 PM PDT by Scott from the Left Coast
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To: newsperson999
Clark is an idiot MURDERER!! His little war on Yugoslavia killed so many MORE civilians( THOUSANDS) that military forces( a couple of HUNDRED)...he really ought to be in the dock at the hague!!

He is know nothing, klintoon bu++-boy!!A "perfumed prince" as Hackworth calls him.

WHATEVER HE SAYS.....PLEASE DON'T LISTEN TO HIM, PRESIDENT BUSH!!

7 posted on 09/23/2002 9:48:14 PM PDT by crazykatz
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To: newsperson999

8 posted on 09/23/2002 9:50:49 PM PDT by VaBthang4
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To: newsperson999
Of course, these nancy pants don't have current information since they are retired. Where were they when BJ was using our military ar the police force all around the world?
9 posted on 09/23/2002 9:53:49 PM PDT by Ruth A.
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To: Cultural Jihad; justshe; MJY1288; Poohbah; deport

10 posted on 09/23/2002 9:55:04 PM PDT by VaBthang4
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To: mass55th
It is also the reason Bush's WOT stalled. If we survive Clinton it will only be because of grit and guts on the part of our troops. I hate placing them in the hands of generals like these, I'm glad these cowards have retired.
11 posted on 09/23/2002 10:00:01 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: newsperson999
I'm just glad they're RETIRED!
12 posted on 09/23/2002 10:00:32 PM PDT by Reagan is King
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To: MissAmericanPie
BTT
13 posted on 09/23/2002 10:01:01 PM PDT by crazykatz
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To: DoughtyOne
I remember General Shalikashvili as the Commander of the 9th Infantry Division and I seriously doubt that he is what you think, while he was appointed during Clinton's, note that he DID NOT stay. I also remember Clark as one of my professors at West Point and I also believe that he not the Clinton lover that everyone here thinks he is ... if I remember correctly Clark did win his little war ... and he was and is fighting about Clinton's and the British micro management of the campaign.
14 posted on 09/23/2002 10:03:45 PM PDT by Yasotay
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To: dts32041
...Three of Clinton's ..perfumed princes..

No more need be said. History will judge them; harshly.

15 posted on 09/23/2002 10:04:33 PM PDT by MrNatural
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To: newsperson999

16 posted on 09/23/2002 10:05:25 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: newsperson999
These three stooges stood silent as traitorrapist42 cut military spending 40% and tripled deployments?

These jackasses didn't peep when the CinC had PLA Gen. Xiong Guangkai to the White House for "military-to-military relationships"?

These three pipsqueaks allowed the betrayal of our missile superiority to the ChiComs via the 200-page fax in 1995 from traitorrapist42 donors Schwartz and Armstrong?

These butt-lickers dummied up when put-some-ice-on-it showed our PLA enemy every platform, base, facility, exercise and weapons system?

Give them a flame thrower, fuel first.

Let's roll.

17 posted on 09/23/2002 10:07:15 PM PDT by PhilDragoo
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To: newsperson999
"The message, he said, was, 'We're going in, with you or without you.'"

Were those actually the words of Bush, or is that a paraphrase?

"Representative Nancy Pelosi of California, the House minority whip, said today that two centrist Democrats, Representatives Ike Skelton of Missouri and John M. Spratt Jr. of South Carolina, were drawing up their own proposed language."

Centrist Democrat? Is that a middle-of-the-road communist?
18 posted on 09/23/2002 10:10:55 PM PDT by Schmedlap
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To: Cultural Jihad; newsperson999
OK, what's with the 5 thing??????
19 posted on 09/23/2002 10:13:46 PM PDT by goodnesswins
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To: mhking; goodnesswins; Cultural Jihad; newsperson999

20 posted on 09/23/2002 10:15:12 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: newsperson999
Three retired four-star American generals said today that attacking Iraq without a United Nations resolution supporting military action

Thank God they're retired. Who are these globalists? Clinton generals?

..." Gen. John M. Shalikashvili, a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, testified...

Okay.

21 posted on 09/23/2002 10:15:35 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Yasotay
What little war are you talking about?
22 posted on 09/23/2002 10:16:23 PM PDT by Ajnin
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To: Schmedlap
Centrist Democrat? Is that a middle-of-the-road communist?

-----------------------

I wish I'd said that.

23 posted on 09/23/2002 10:17:10 PM PDT by RLK
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To: Ajnin
Yugoslavia
24 posted on 09/23/2002 10:17:39 PM PDT by Yasotay
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To: Yasotay
Thank you for the comments. It had become so bad under Clinton that when he appointed someone I immediately put them on my list as qestionable. If you feel otherwise, I'm glad to hear it.
25 posted on 09/23/2002 10:17:46 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: PhilDragoo
These jackasses didn't peep when the CinC had PLA Gen. Xiong Guangkai to the White House for "military-to-military relationships"?

Not to mention the 21-gun salute he received, a slap in the face to every real war hero we ever had. SCUM. I'm getting off this thread before I have a stroke, my blood is boiling.

26 posted on 09/23/2002 10:18:58 PM PDT by FlyVet
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To: newsperson999
What's the use of getting UN backing? Do we really need a squad from Tonga, the 322nd French Retreat Battalion, various and sundry water purification units from the EU,
etc?

Seems to me that besides Britain, Canada, and Australia,
there's not much benefit to "allied" forces.

Maybe we should start charging the UN for all these wars we fight on their request.

"Here's the bill, Kofi. Note that it's more than the GDP of your backwards piss-ant little colony."

27 posted on 09/23/2002 10:21:57 PM PDT by cryptical
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To: trebor
And that idiot Pelosi from Kalifornia, she's still screaming there is not enough evidence to warrant pre-emptive strikes in Iraq....
Jesus... she should really worry cuz Kalifornia is a prime target for terrorists! (Agriculture, Livestock, Water, and not to mention the Pacific stock exchange....
They need to protect our country now, no matter what the cost or "collateral damage".
28 posted on 09/23/2002 10:31:30 PM PDT by Terridan
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To: DoughtyOne
It is not a pretty job, BUT somebody had to do it .... I can't think of a single officer that considered themselves a "Clinton Lover", but they do love this country.
29 posted on 09/23/2002 10:33:10 PM PDT by Yasotay
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To: Yasotay
They sold their respective services out for promotion, particularly Shillyshally or what ever his name is. I wouldn't call that cluster in Yugoslavia a "victory" never mind that we had no business being there in the first place.
30 posted on 09/23/2002 10:55:08 PM PDT by Scotsman will be Free
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To: VaBthang4
Thanks for the ping, Va!

And thank GOD these idiots are retired.
31 posted on 09/23/2002 10:57:25 PM PDT by justshe
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To: newsperson999
Did anyone else listen to the testimony of the designated Arabist shill, aka General Hoar?
It seems that he refused to push for armor in Somalia. http://www.g2mil.com/BlackhawkDown.htm


He is also a paid shill for the Chicoms as a founding member of the the Sino-American Aviation Heritage Foundation http://sinoam.com/broad%20member%20usa.htm
http://sinoam.com/mission.htm

32 posted on 09/23/2002 11:13:27 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: Yasotay
I can't think of a single officer that considered themselves a "Clinton Lover", but they do love this country.

That may be true, but I am very disappointed that not one high profile General Officer resigned in protest under X42's eight year reign of depravity.

33 posted on 09/23/2002 11:15:21 PM PDT by Norman Arbuthnot
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To: Yasotay
You've got to be kidding!

General Shalikashvili in 1998 - on Kosovo/Germany/Russia:
http://www.iyp.org/Archives/iyp-l/9905/msg00084.html

"The big winner was Russia, a country that got money, respect, and the position of honest broker. The most extraordinary outcome of Bill Clinton's Kosovo adventure was that it turned Boris Yeltsin into a statesman, with his representative, Chernomyrdin, taken more seriously in Bonn and Rome than Clinton's Strobe Talbott. That was no small feat for the Clinton foreign policy team. The Kosovo conflict is drawing to a close. Whether a settlement will take a day or a month, the key elements are now clear."

What do you think the General was smoking when he made these comments?

General Clark -- yes, he "won his war"....making Kosovo safe for the "Ethnic Alabanians"---which we later learned were radical militant Islamics assisted by Clinton's protected buddy -- Osama bin Laden! General Clark was long regarded as a political ass kissing perfumed prince --- and he was Hillary and Bubba's champion for bombing the Serbs into submission over to date still unproven claims of genocide involving 10s of thousands of poor "Ethnic Albanians" read as long toothed radical Islamic militants invading Europe again...

In my opinion - the best that can be said of either of these two clowns - is that they are retired. They should stay that way - and just "FADE AWAY"..

Semper Fi
34 posted on 09/23/2002 11:19:39 PM PDT by river rat
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To: newsperson999
These three were not warriors, they were REMFs.
35 posted on 09/23/2002 11:22:18 PM PDT by connectthedots
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To: newsperson999
Gen. John M. Shalikashvili, a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

Der SinkMeister's pet Ukranian Nazi?

36 posted on 09/23/2002 11:23:12 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: newsperson999
A fourth military leader, Lt. Gen. Thomas G. McInerney, the former assistant vice chief of staff of the Air Force, offered a different opinion, saying the United States should act quickly in Iraq. "We should not wait to be attacked with weapons of mass destruction," he said.

Way to go Blue! I'll bet Curtis LeMay, Hap Arnold and Jimmy Doolittle were this guy's boyhood heros, as they were mine.

37 posted on 09/23/2002 11:25:32 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: Ruth A.
Where were they when BJ was using our military ar the police force all around the world?

Snapping to, and saying "Yes Sir, Yes Sir, Three bags full"

38 posted on 09/23/2002 11:26:50 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: newsperson999
In California, former Vice President Al Gore, the man Mr. Bush defeated for president,

This bugs me. In the whole story they didn't once refer to him as President Bush. They referenced former Vice President..., and President Sadaam ..., but never President Bush.

39 posted on 09/23/2002 11:43:01 PM PDT by Isle of sanity in CA
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To: Yasotay
I remember Shali from the 9th as well - I thought he was a pickle kissing REMF from the start. Nothing here to change my mind. (But then again, I thought that about nearly every officer above the rank of 0-5, and I only met three above 0-4 in ten years that I actually respected.)
40 posted on 09/23/2002 11:47:44 PM PDT by 11B3
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To: newsperson999
In another time in America, I would have expected retired military officers, of the four-star general rank, to support the President-CIC, lock-step.

I would expect them to say: "The President has the most accurate, full, and up-to-date information. Whatever he decides, I completely support him."

Bush has made a decision, that for Iraq to go on unfettered, amassing WMD, places America's national security in grave danger. Do these men dispute this?

During their commands, did they or did they not, supervise air-strikes against Iraq, for violations of the 1991 cease fire treaty? Do they support the continuing air-strikes, for the same reasons?

Do they or do they not, believe in enforcing cease-fire treaty terms? If not, how has Iraq diminished, as a violater, or as a threat to other nations?

Do they think the US should defend itself, only when joined by an international coalition? Is the timing related to Gore's "coming out" sans beard?

41 posted on 09/24/2002 1:16:26 AM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: newsperson999
What part of the b.s. politics and the U.N. ruling us need to go, don't they get? All will get it if we are attacked again.
42 posted on 09/24/2002 3:12:42 AM PDT by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: Terridan
Pelosi, member of the Social Democrat of America movement, is one step away from becoming our first Marxist Speaker of the House. And if that doesn't send chills down your spine...
43 posted on 09/24/2002 3:59:10 AM PDT by gaspar
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To: gaspar
Nah... I don't think so. Gephardt wants it real bad.
44 posted on 09/24/2002 6:01:31 AM PDT by johnny7
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To: Yasotay
I also remember Clark as one of my professors at West Point and I also believe that he not the Clinton lover that everyone here thinks he is ...

Are you sure you are not confusing him with some other Clark? Wesley Clark was a Arkansas NG officer before Bubba-1 brought him back on active duty and promoted him.

if I remember correctly Clark did win his little war ...

HorseHillary! If he "won" the war,why are US troops still there playing babysitter?

and he was and is fighting about Clinton's and the British micro management of the campaign.

That's one way of putting it. A more accurate way might be to say he was forced to retire because he is a certifiable nutcase who wanted to attack Russian troops and oil tankers, and who said if "Russia doesn't like it,give me 80,000 troops and I can be in Moscow in 30 days." That might not be a 100% accurate quote because it is from memory,but it IS damn close! This lunatic was wanting to attack Russia and start WW-3,and got mad when the British General Michael Jackson refused to follow his orders and did some whispering in Tony Blair's ear. Clark is criminally insane,and even Bubba-1 had to recoginize this and force him into retirement.

45 posted on 09/24/2002 6:25:41 AM PDT by sneakypete
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To: Cultural Jihad
What's with all the "5's" people are posting?
46 posted on 09/24/2002 6:27:18 AM PDT by sneakypete
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To: newsperson999
All three of the generals mentioned are Klinton suck ups, @ss kissers and yes men. Thank God they are RETIRED and have no further power over our fighting men/women.

God Bless America
47 posted on 09/24/2002 6:29:50 AM PDT by reillyoburbank
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To: Scotsman will be Free
I wouldn't call that cluster in Yugoslavia a "victory"

It was more of a crime than it was a victory. We bombed the hell out of civilians in order to protect radical Muslims.

48 posted on 09/24/2002 6:31:11 AM PDT by sneakypete
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To: Isle of sanity in CA
President Saddam Hussein

Well, the dictator likes to call himself that because he knows how powerful the idea of democracy is. He may qualify as a 'president' to the discredited 5th columnist editors of the New York Times, but they thought the Soviet Union was wonderful a democracy, too.

49 posted on 09/24/2002 6:35:42 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Norman Arbuthnot
That may be true, but I am very disappointed that not one high profile General Officer resigned in protest under X42's eight year reign of depravity.

General John Singelaub. He was the commanding General of our forces in Korea when Bubba-1 wanted to pull ALL US troops from South Korea to please his Roger Clinton's "biggest fans",the people of North Korea. Singleaub called a press conference and stated in plain language that US troops were te ONLY thing keeping communist North Korea (with help from their Chinese allies)from attacking South Korea and turning all of Korea into a communist country. He was recalled to the US for this and forced to retire,but Bubba-1 shut up,and none of us has heard a word since about withdrawing our troops from Korea. Most likely,this cost Bubba-1 millions of dollars in lost bribes.

BTW,I'm pretty sure I'm spelling his name wrong.

50 posted on 09/24/2002 6:38:17 AM PDT by sneakypete
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