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Osama Bin Laden DEAD? Pictures / video of corpse
Arabic Jihad ^ | ? | www.hamor.net

Posted on 09/29/2002 1:15:17 PM PDT by Cascadians

Can any of you translate the words?

Do you think that is the body of Osama Bin Laden? Graphic.

Can you figure out how long the video has been up at that site?

Any insights, FReepers? Has the FBI etc been notified? Do you think it is a hoax?

Please let the page load and view the pictures and video (and have sound on):

http://www.hamor.net/media/swf/alkholoud.htm

and give your opinion.

There is a discussion at
http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43702
[UNEX/WAR/WTF?] OSAMA DEAD? *strange* video, look at this

and we could not find anything previously posted about this on Free Republic.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: corpse; dead; eerie; osamabinladen; video; who
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Please give your opinion.
1 posted on 09/29/2002 1:15:18 PM PDT by Cascadians
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To: Cascadians
OBL is alive and hiding in one of Saddam's palaces. We should bomb them all immediately.
2 posted on 09/29/2002 1:18:04 PM PDT by Hugin
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To: Hugin
Did you look at the video?

Whose body was that?
3 posted on 09/29/2002 1:20:03 PM PDT by Cascadians
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To: Cascadians
bump
4 posted on 09/29/2002 1:20:17 PM PDT by widgysoft
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5 posted on 09/29/2002 1:20:22 PM PDT by Mo1
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To: Mo1
Nope, close, but not Hitlery corpse.

The pictures at above link are clear. Could the USA alpha-intel have missed this?
6 posted on 09/29/2002 1:23:15 PM PDT by Cascadians
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To: Cascadians
My own opinion - That ain't Osama. It bears a superficial resemblence but that's all.
7 posted on 09/29/2002 1:23:32 PM PDT by Just another Joe
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To: Cascadians
Hot link to video (takes a few seconds to load):

http://www.hamor.net/media/swf/alkholoud.htm

8 posted on 09/29/2002 1:25:01 PM PDT by Cascadians
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To: Just another Joe
I agree, he looks way to beefy to be OBL.

OBL is very thin.
9 posted on 09/29/2002 1:25:19 PM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: Just another Joe
Thanks, Joe. Who do you think it was? Do you think it was a jihader bombed in Afghanistan?
10 posted on 09/29/2002 1:26:08 PM PDT by Cascadians
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To: Cascadians

11 posted on 09/29/2002 1:26:21 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: Cascadians
UBL's nostrils flare. This guy's nose is straight.
12 posted on 09/29/2002 1:28:55 PM PDT by alnick
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To: Cascadians
The images are clear enough that the CIA and other investigators will definately be able to determine if it is him or not.
13 posted on 09/29/2002 1:29:10 PM PDT by realpatriot
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To: Cascadians
Thanks Caskies,

FWIW I found another page of this stuff when I searched in google for "alkholoud" If anyone knows what that word means.. it would be helpfull.

I came across this site

http://www.geocities.com/maryammohd/saktjf_files/

You want some interesting stuff.. check out some of the files on that site, however it gets overloaded quick cus its hosted on Yahoo, so it might be gone quick but back tomorrow.

This stuff was just spooky.. check out some of the images I got off that other site on the timebomb thread.
14 posted on 09/29/2002 1:30:19 PM PDT by eXe
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To: roses of sharon
...looks way to beefy to be OBL...

Not to be overly gross, but doesn't a dead body "bloat" a bit, esp. if it's been dead a couple of days ? The still face pictures look pretty close to OBL, mustache seems a bit too dark, and the nose is a little larger (wider ??) in some side shots, esp. compared to the "sick/injured" video (where he didn't move his arm at all)

15 posted on 09/29/2002 1:31:12 PM PDT by twyn1
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To: Cascadians
Reminds me of one of those "Alien Autopsy" videos. lol

They took a handful of pictures and used digital panning and sweeps to give the flash animation a little more length. Since this is built from a handfull of still images, with no way to verify the date or authenticity, I would label it an discusting, inhumane piece of art, but little more.

Plus, the bandages on both arms just seem fake.

16 posted on 09/29/2002 1:31:26 PM PDT by ChadGore
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To: Cascadians
I clicked on it and got a plain black screen for about 3 minutes before I gave up. In any case my response was humor. IMHO OBL has been dead since last December.
17 posted on 09/29/2002 1:32:08 PM PDT by Hugin
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To: Cascadians
No, I don't think it looks anything like him. A random body at best, and a stupid hoax at worse.
18 posted on 09/29/2002 1:34:03 PM PDT by AntiGuv
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To: twyn1
There was a rumor that UBL had a kidney failure condition.

We have a patient dying of kidney failure right now and he has swelled noticeably.

The pictures are strange and creepy enough to warrant investigative benefit of doubt.

Surely a FReeper can look carefully at this and compare pictures / teeth etc?
19 posted on 09/29/2002 1:37:04 PM PDT by Cascadians
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To: Just another Joe
I would have to concur that it doesn't appear to be Osama for a number of reasons.

1. The jihadi chants in the background make no mention of "Osama bin Laden," "Abu Abdullah," or "al-Emir," three titles associated with bin Laden. Indeed, there isn't any mention of "kufr" (infidels) and the talk of jihad comes at the very end of the chant. Nor is there any mention of the word "shaheed" (martyr), which a tribute to bin Laden would certainly include.

2. I'm not entirely certain, but I don't believe that bin Laden's bald, as this individual certainly is. Anybody see any pictures of bin Laden without his turban on?

3. This looks a lot different from the bin Laden we saw in the last video. If this is supposedly from Tora Bora in December 2001, he should look considerable worse, not better.

4. If bin Laden is dead, it is highly likely that he was killed during the American bombing. This guy seems to have died from a gunshot wound.

5. The nose looks considerably smaller than bin Laden's.

Additionally, the background of the footage doesn't look like Afghanistan in the winter. The website looks like it's a legitimate member of the al-Qaeda fan club, but I'd wait for a translation before jumping to conclusions. According to one of the threads linked, the site is based out of the Philippines. Perhaps its owners have connections to the Filippino al-Qaeda (Abu Sayyaf or the Moro Islamic Liberation Front)?

20 posted on 09/29/2002 1:37:09 PM PDT by Angelus Errare
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To: Cascadians
I hate to guess, but it sure resembles him. The eyebrows and facial features match. I did not let the hairline throw me off, as no other pics show him without a turban.
21 posted on 09/29/2002 1:37:38 PM PDT by Cold Heat
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To: Cascadians
That is not Bin Laden

Bin Laden has a broader nose that flares out at the end and his lips are fuller than those of the man in the pictures.

22 posted on 09/29/2002 1:37:47 PM PDT by slimer
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To: Cascadians
Ok, time for a little self revelation here.

I worked in hospital ICU's and ER's for two decades. I have seen hundreds, maybe even a thousand corpses. The body in that picture is not dead. It is the wrong color. Corpses are purple and mottled. That body is pink and looks like it is receiving plenty of blood. Not even ashen, not even blanched, but pink. Unless the jihadists carry mortuary make up with them, I'd say that is a living body.

Also, there is one shot where the mouth is open as if in a scfeam of agony, and another shot where the mouth is stillopen, but not as wide, nor with the corners turned down as much. I'm speaking of shots taken before the shots where the head is bound.

My 2 pennies.

23 posted on 09/29/2002 1:39:06 PM PDT by ladysusan
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To: Cascadians
Who knows Farsi here?
24 posted on 09/29/2002 1:39:51 PM PDT by tip of the sword
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To: Angelus Errare
Thanks. Appreciate all opinions. We are hospice caregivers and see a lot of death, and the body does have some aspects of a corpse.

The first picture after the opening shows a fierce grimmace where a comparison of teeth would be possible.
25 posted on 09/29/2002 1:41:15 PM PDT by Cascadians
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To: tip of the sword
Is it Farsi or Arabic? I keep on getting different answers to this.

Also, didn't some Arab newspapers claim that bin Laden had suffered gunshot wounds as a result of the Battle of Tora Bora? This could easily be that.
26 posted on 09/29/2002 1:42:06 PM PDT by Angelus Errare
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To: slimer
Not Bin Ladin.
27 posted on 09/29/2002 1:43:43 PM PDT by TiaS
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To: Cascadians
Bin Laden: R.I.P.(Rot In Muslim/Paradise)
28 posted on 09/29/2002 1:45:10 PM PDT by GHOST WRITER
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To: Senator Pardek
Jeez I never realized Peter Grant looked so Arabic until just now.
29 posted on 09/29/2002 1:49:28 PM PDT by bat-boy
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To: Cascadians
There was a rumor that UBL had a kidney failure condition.

Patients who die with kidnay failure geberally have greyish yellow skin before deat, and if they die of kidnet failure, their skin has a whitish coating called "uremic frost." Both are missing in these pictures.

I just thought of someting else. See that bruise over the left eyelid? That's a fresh bruise, no more than one day old, I'd say. In a truly dead body, the blood pools and slide down the planes of the body to a dependent position, pulled there by gravity. In the case of a corpse positioned on its back, the poling would be on the corpse's back

Somethig else. I see no signs of rigor mortis in these photos. A body with a bruise that fresh (ie, 24 - 48, even 72 hours or so) would be in a state of rigor.

Hope this helps

30 posted on 09/29/2002 1:49:50 PM PDT by ladysusan
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To: Cascadians
OBL is very much alive. Likely hideouts: San Francisco, Greenwich Village, Seattle, Austin, Broward or Dade Counties. You get my drift.
31 posted on 09/29/2002 1:49:59 PM PDT by witnesstothefall
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To: Angelus Errare
The message board link above says it is Farsi.
32 posted on 09/29/2002 1:50:21 PM PDT by tip of the sword
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To: Cascadians
I expect as we draw closer to an invasion of arab lands claims of "proof" of Bin laden's death like this will surface. There are those who feel this is a war gainst the man. If he is dead, we might go away......
33 posted on 09/29/2002 1:51:50 PM PDT by oswald
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To: tip of the sword
The reason I ask is because I believe Farsi uses a different script than Arabic and while I don't have Farsi text support on my computer, I do have Arabic. Yet the text is displayed perfectly.

Just thought I'd mention it.
34 posted on 09/29/2002 1:53:03 PM PDT by Angelus Errare
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To: Cascadians
That was just too damn creepy. It kinda looks like him.
35 posted on 09/29/2002 1:54:30 PM PDT by rintense
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To: Cascadians
One more thing, after reviewing the photos again. The shot of the bottom of the foot is especially telling. The bottom of the foot, being the farthest point from the heart, would be very dark, nearly black, in a corpse, and in this shot, it isn't. The heel would be swollen from blood pooling, and it isn't. This is a hoax, and a not very clever one.

Apologies to everyone for the graphic descriptions, and the terrible typing.

36 posted on 09/29/2002 1:54:37 PM PDT by ladysusan
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To: realpatriot
images are clear enough that the CIA and other investigators will definately be able to determine if it is him or not.

don't bet on it; their mission is to insure no civil rights violations occur.

37 posted on 09/29/2002 1:54:52 PM PDT by alrea
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To: alnick
UBL's nostrils flare. This guy's nose is straight.

You forgot to add, that they are all ugly as sin.

38 posted on 09/29/2002 1:55:37 PM PDT by BulletBrasDotNet
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To: alrea
This is a hoax, and a not very clever one.

No offense, but are we even sure that the video is claiming that bin Laden is dead? Suleiman Abu Ghaith, al-Qaeda's spokesman, has been fairly consistent in claiming that he's alive. Jihad Unspun even claims to offer an "unseen tape" to this effect. It strikes me that al-Qaeda has little reason to claim that bin Laden is dead in so graphic a fashion, especially if it's an easily disproved hoax.

39 posted on 09/29/2002 1:58:08 PM PDT by Angelus Errare
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To: wirestripper
abu sayyaf

This looks more like a jungle, probably someone from abu sayyaf.
40 posted on 09/29/2002 1:59:53 PM PDT by snippy_about_it
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To: snippy_about_it
Didn't the Filippinos kill the Abu Sayyaf spokesman, Abu Sabaya, a while back?
41 posted on 09/29/2002 2:00:57 PM PDT by Angelus Errare
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To: Cascadians
That is freakin' CREEPY!

But I don't think it's bin Laden. I just kept thinking about back when we first were going into Afghanistan hearing about bin Laden having several ringers floating around. Perhaps this was one of them, but I really didn't think it looked that much like him.

42 posted on 09/29/2002 2:02:28 PM PDT by sweetliberty
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To: Cascadians
Olivers North's NSA buddies confirmed that OBL died on Dec. 9-10 2001 at the battle of Tora Bora and the Al Qaeda webiste confirmed it on Sept. 11, 2002 then retracted it.

So the question is, how fast will this be verified or debunked?

43 posted on 09/29/2002 2:03:29 PM PDT by tip of the sword
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To: Cascadians
Me and my wife concluded its not him. First of all, the nose is more balbus in the link, Osama had a flare. Second, his eyebrows almost met with the hair on his sides, in the link, there is great distance from his eyebrows and the hair on the sides...

Just our humble opinions
44 posted on 09/29/2002 2:04:23 PM PDT by smith288
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To: ladysusan
"I'd say that is a living body."

I thought that as well. Or at least I was not convinced it was dead.

45 posted on 09/29/2002 2:07:14 PM PDT by sweetliberty
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To: Angelus Errare
No offense, but are we even sure that the video is claiming that bin Laden is dead?

With all due respect, the video shows a body with a jaw restraint similar to the type that is put on a corpse after death. I reiterate, it is my assessment that whose ever body this is ( and I personally don't think it is UBL) it is not dead, but alive. The cardinal signs of death - dark coloration,mottling, rigor, blood pooling - are not present. For whatever reasons, the video is attempting to present a living body as if it were a a dead one, and it just doesn't wash. In that regard ,it is a hoax.

46 posted on 09/29/2002 2:11:48 PM PDT by ladysusan
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To: ladysusan
In college, I worked at a funeral home for a few years and I agree with your concludion except for a few of the close up pictures where there is visible greying around the eyes.

In all honesty, the body does look somewhat like a corpse would look after being removed from cold storage. Possible if this was taken in winter. Who knows, we will have to wait for someone who can speak/read Farsi to show up and tell us what the chants and writing are. Maybe that will be a clue.
47 posted on 09/29/2002 2:13:28 PM PDT by Brytani
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To: smith288
If bin Laden died on 12/9 then how come Fox News was reporting that US forces in the area heard his voice over the radio between 12/10-12/16 when the battle was at its height? Not calling Ollie a liar, just asking a reasonable question of his sources.

While the stories of his survival sound a lot like urban legends, so do the accounts of his death. He died on December 6 of kidney failure. He died on December 9 from US bombing. He was on horseback just before we carpet bombed the area, ect.

The situation with the 9/11 posting on al-Neda and Jehad.net is a little more interesting, but not by much. There was a story about somebody named "Osama" dying, but the website made it unclear as to whether or not it was bin Laden. Then came a message from the al-Qaeda "politburo" stating that bin Laden was indeed alive.

In the end, I'm inclined to suspend judgement on such matters until we can either produce a corpse, come up with a plausible explanation as to how he died (and these conflicting accounts out there do nothing to reassure me), or interrogate Binalshibh and friends to find out who they were getting their marching orders from. Until then I plan on operating on the assumption that there is neither proof for nor against.

Incidentally, if bin Laden is dead beyond a reasonable doubt why the heck hasn't the Bush administration stepped up to take credit for it?
48 posted on 09/29/2002 2:14:16 PM PDT by Angelus Errare
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To: Cascadians
Looks like their using the napkin that he wears on his head, to clean up the blood...
49 posted on 09/29/2002 2:16:19 PM PDT by demsux
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To: ladysusan
It seems to me the body is alive in certain frames, and dead in the final frames, as if the point is to capture and share the moment of whoever-it-is's passing.

It looks like it could be Bin Laden; then again, there are certain phenotypical characteristics that argue against it. Hard to tell without "professional" analysis...

50 posted on 09/29/2002 2:16:53 PM PDT by Publius Maximus
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