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A site in Oregon could shake America's view of history, says Sanjida O'Connell
The Guardian ^ | 10-19-2002 | Sanjida O'Connell

Posted on 10/19/2002 10:11:55 AM PDT by vannrox

Archaeologists split hairs over first arrivals

A site in Oregon could shake America's view of history, says Sanjida O'Connell

Sanjida O'Connell

Thursday October 17, 2002

The Guardian

Woodburn is a small agricultural town in the US state of Oregon. Next to the high school is Mammoth Park. It sounds cheesy, but Mammoth Park is a paleoarchaeological site whose findings could shake America's view of her history.

In suitably prosaic fashion, the site was discovered in 1987, when local authorities tried to install a sewer line. At depths of 5m, workers found huge bones, but said nothing and took them home. Now, Mammoth Park has tighter security, and links to three universities and four institutes.

Researchers have uncovered a wealth of findings that illustrates how America might have looked thousands of years ago, but most remarkable was the discovery in July 2000 of a human hair. DNA analysis could provoke a constitutional storm. The hair, 40cm long, is said to be the oldest piece of organic human remains: it has been carbon dated twice, but the results have not been published and the research remains controversial.

Archaeologist Dr Alison Stenger, director of research at the Institute for Archaeological Studies, Portland, believes the hair could be about 12,000 years old. The consensus is that America was first colonised 13,000 years ago, when people walked across a land bridge between Siberia and Alaska.

They then walked through a corridor that opened up between ice sheets in western Canada. So the date of the hair, if it proves accurate, fits the date of the first arrivals.

However, Stephen Dunleavy, who has produced a documentary on the colonisation of America, says: "It's almost biblical - a parting of the ways - and almost certainly wrong."

The theory was challenged in the late 1970s, when the remains of a communitywere found by archaeologists in Monte Verde, Chile, which could predate the consensus figure. The authenticity of this site is still disputed.

"It depends who you speak to," says Lori Baker, an assistant professor in molecular anthropology at Baylor University, Waco, Texas. "Some say the site dates from 12,500 years ago, but unofficial dates stretch back as far as 30,000 years ago."

The idea that people reached America earlier is gaining ground. If this supposition is true, how did they get there? One theory is that people island-hopped. Islands off the coast of America were ice-free long before a corridor cleared within the continent.

These people could have used some form of watercraft to travel down the coast - a much faster mode of transport. But evidence is patchy: 10% of the earth's water was locked up in glaciers: once they melted, the coastline flooded. There is, however, evidence of human activity 10,000 years ago on Prince of Wales Island, which means that by this stage, people must have had boats.

We are beginning to understand what their environment was like from fauna and flora unearthed at Mammoth Park. Researchers found mammoths, black bears, the Sitka black-tailed deer, a mule-like deer, horses, wolves, bison, mastodon and giant sloths, including a sloth foetus.

The team has even uncovered a new species, the teratorn, a giant ice age bird with a wingspan of more than four metres. Its presence, combined with duck skeletons and eggshells, indicates that the region was marshy, swampy, open and filled with a buzzing, booming collection of iridescent insects.

The people were technologically advanced, with a full tool kit of stone hand axes and butchering implements. They had developed a stone age Kalashnikov - a device that enabled them to throw a spear-like implement 200m - twice as far as the best javelin throwers.

The "atlatal", a powerful throwing stick, launched a type of dart that was more flexible than a spear and had a main shaft 1.5m long. The foreshaft, ending in a spear point, was lashed on with animal sinew and pitch. But who were these first peoples? Scientists assumed they were descendants of native Americans who now claim ownership of ancient human remains.

When the DNA analysis came back, Stenger was in for a shock. The hair did not belong to a native American. Baker, who carried out the analysis, says: "It's possible that the so-called paleoindians are not the ancestors of native Americans. Either they didn't leave any ancestors, or they were replaced by other peoples."

The implication is that some one, or some peoples, colonised the states first. All we can tell about the owner of the hair is that he or she had had a haircut.

· Wild New World: Edge of the Ice is on BBC2, 9pm next Thursday

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2002


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: archaeology; discovery; exploration; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; mystery; past; site; unexplained; unusual
The past is constantly under revision.
1 posted on 10/19/2002 10:11:56 AM PDT by vannrox
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To: vannrox
At depths of 5m, workers found huge bones, but said nothing and took them home.

Took them home for what?

2 posted on 10/19/2002 10:18:44 AM PDT by Jonathon Spectre
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To: vannrox
The past is constantly under revision.

So true!

3 posted on 10/19/2002 10:20:24 AM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: Jonathon Spectre
Took them home for what?

Fidosaurus, what else?

4 posted on 10/19/2002 10:26:12 AM PDT by Old Professer
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To: vannrox
If you thought enough of "dim bulb" Sanjida O'Connell to post this you will just adore this one
5 posted on 10/19/2002 10:27:46 AM PDT by G.Mason
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To: vannrox
When the DNA analysis came back, Stenger was in for a shock. The hair did not belong to a native American.

Marlo Brandon is going to be pissed.

6 posted on 10/19/2002 10:33:10 AM PDT by JZoback
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To: vannrox
Scientists assumed they were descendants of native Americans who now claim ownership of ancient human remains.

Now that would be a neat trick! Presumably they meant "ancestors", rather than "descendants". Anyway, the DNA analysis is the important news.

7 posted on 10/19/2002 10:33:51 AM PDT by FairWitness
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To: blam
Ping!
8 posted on 10/19/2002 10:36:56 AM PDT by ruoflaw
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To: vannrox; blam
What is happening with respect to the other find ?

Kennewick Man or
Dead "Indians" Don't Lie

K E N N E W I C K - M A N

DNA Report on Kennewick Man in this list:

Additional Update:

K-Man Undergoes Complete Physical

9 posted on 10/19/2002 10:45:44 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; ruoflaw
Thanks for the ping

Archaeologists Split Hairs Over First Arrivals

10 posted on 10/19/2002 11:10:29 AM PDT by blam
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To: vannrox
When the DNA analysis came back, Stenger was in for a shock. The hair did not belong to a native American.

...the results have not been published...

Why the secrecy???

I wanna know WHO the hair belonged to.

11 posted on 10/19/2002 11:23:06 AM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
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To: Jonathon Spectre
LOL
12 posted on 10/19/2002 11:27:53 AM PDT by FryingPan101
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
I wanna know WHO the hair belonged to.

I'm with you! I read the entire article, and they refused to say who the hair belongs to. Now, if this hiding of the information follows form, then the hair belongs to, what we would now term as, a white person. (Perhaps Asian).

It would be almost comical if it were not so frustrating. Here is an article, devoted to the topic of how the way we have looked at colonization of the North American continent is going to change drastically; yet, they will not give us the key piece of information about how it has changed. P.C. rules.

13 posted on 10/19/2002 11:38:57 AM PDT by LibertarianLiz
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To: Jonathon Spectre
At depths of 5m, workers found huge bones, but said nothing and took them home.

Soup's on!

14 posted on 10/19/2002 11:55:14 AM PDT by mississippi red-neck
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To: vannrox
"The hair did not belong to a native American. Baker, who carried out the analysis, says: "It's possible that the so-called paleoindians are not the ancestors of native Americans."

Quite possible. Even the Bible alludes to the fact that man walked the Earth long before Adam.

15 posted on 10/19/2002 11:58:44 AM PDT by nightdriver
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To: nightdriver
Yup
16 posted on 10/19/2002 12:15:25 PM PDT by the-ironically-named-proverbs2
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To: vannrox; LibertarianLiz
I was interested in this, so I typed a few keywords into google -- ("Mammoth Park" paleo DNA "land bridge") -- and this is what came up.

Click here

This is a cached article, and pertains directly to the article vanrox posted.

Maybe we can do our own sleuthing and figure out who the hair belongs to!

17 posted on 10/19/2002 12:20:26 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
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To: vannrox
I am sure the "Native" Americans would be shocked to learn they "stole" the country from somebody else before the white man came and stole it from them. That would just shoot their history of "we were here first" just all to hell, now wouldn't it?
18 posted on 10/19/2002 1:20:12 PM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
I wanna know WHO the hair belonged to.

There's a 50% chance that it belonged to an Elvisaurus. and a 50$ chance it belonged to an ancient Saudi Arabian terrorist who was crushed inside a cave many moons ago.

19 posted on 10/19/2002 1:26:55 PM PDT by piasa
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
Stealing 10,000 years ago was more acceptable than stealing 100-200 years ago which is when the american indians were robbed. And the proof of stealing from 10k years ago is not there yet and may never be there.
20 posted on 10/19/2002 6:14:01 PM PDT by staytrue
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
It would also shoot down their theory that they are entitled to all the fish, all the timber, etc. I'm of native descent, but this would make me smile. :<)
21 posted on 10/19/2002 6:46:39 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: nightdriver
Even the Bible alludes to the fact that man walked the Earth long before Adam.
Oh?

Where?

22 posted on 10/19/2002 8:39:25 PM PDT by Elsie
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To: Jonathon Spectre
Took them home for what?

Soup, of course. You never had an old recipe?

23 posted on 10/19/2002 9:36:19 PM PDT by IncPen
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks for the reminder about the really hushed up Kennewick Man.

This statement below, from the current thread article would seem to tie in with the cone of silence and outright censorship and games played with the Kennewick Man:

"When the DNA analysis came back, Stenger was in for a shock. The hair did not belong to a native American. Baker, who carried out the analysis, says: "It's possible that the so-called paleoindians are not the ancestors of native Americans. Either they didn't leave any ancestors, or they were replaced by other peoples."

The cover up on the Kennewick Man went right to the highest ones in control of America at that time.

Now for a few paragraphs from the Kennewick Man that you linked in your reply:

The lack of head flattening from cradle board use, minimal arthritis in weight-bearing bones, and the unusually light wear on his teeth distinguish the behavior and diet of Kennewick Man from that of more recent peoples in the region. A fragment of the fifth left metacarpal analyzed by AMS has an isotopically-corrected age of 8410 +/- 60 B.P. (UCR 3476) (ca 7300 to 7600 B.C.). Amino acids and stable isotopes indicate heavy dependence on anadromous fish. DNA was intact, but two partially-completed extractions were inconclusive.

The man lacks definitive characteristics of the classic mongoloid stock to which modern Native Americans belong. The skull is dolichocranic (cranial index 73.8) rather than brachycranic, the face narrow and prognathous rather than broad and flat. Cheek bones recede slightly and lack an inferior zygomatic projection; the lower rim of the orbit is even with the upper. Other features are a long, broad nose that projects markedly from the face and high, round orbits. The mandible is v-shaped,with a pronounced, deep chin. Many of these characteristics are definitive of modern-day caucasoid peoples, while others, such as the orbits are typical of neither race. Dental characteristics fit Turner's (1983) Sundadont pattern, indicating possible relationship to south Asian peoples.

Current Status of Kennewic Man: On August 30, four days after the startling radiocarbon result, the Corps insisted all studies be terminated and soon took possession of the skeleton. After publishing their intent to repatriate the remains to an alliance of five tribes and bands--Umatilla, Yakama, Nez Perce, Wanapum and Colville--the Corps received numerous requests for scientific study from citizens, congressmen and anthropologists. The Colville then filed a separate claim of their own. A group of internationally-known archaeologists and physical anthropologists filed suit, asserting that NAGPRA does not apply to this case and seeking the opportunity for study. The Asutru Folk Assembly, a traditional European religion, also sued for the right to determine if this individual was their ancestor. The Umatilla, who have taken the lead on the issue, intend immediate reburial in a secret location. The remains now lie in a federal repository awaiting resolution.

Doesn't all of this sound familiar? :

24 posted on 10/19/2002 10:38:51 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: AuntB
See my reply to Ernest above re tying this finding in with the findings of the hushed up Kennewick Man.

Here is a little excerpt from one of the paragraphs I highlighte:

A fragment of the fifth left metacarpal analyzed by AMS has an isotopically-corrected age of 8410 +/- 60 B.P. (UCR 3476) (ca 7300 to 7600 B.C.). Amino acids and stable isotopes indicate heavy dependence on anadromous fish.

In other words this guy was dependent on the migrating salmonoids for his food a few thousand years before the Indians showed up on in this area.

25 posted on 10/19/2002 10:43:01 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
Yep!
26 posted on 10/19/2002 10:44:47 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Wasn't it amazing how that whole K. man thing was handled?

Science and real historical research were damn near burnt at the stake during that sorry mess.

27 posted on 10/19/2002 10:57:01 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
You see this kind of thing especially in the whole sorry scene with Global Warming. A lot of the scientists are pursuing grants and they shade the science to get the Grants.
28 posted on 10/19/2002 11:03:32 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Grampa Dave
I worked in the mid-Willamette Valley area for nearly 30 years drilling thousands of water wells, including one about a hundred yards from the site in Woodburn (no bones in that one).

I did however find other sites where deeply buried wood, fossils, and even what looked to me like bones were found. I never would report them. The owners of the sites would have been subjected to extreme loss of the use of their land and the 'scientists' would have construed their findings in ways that would have screwed us all. Better to just keep quiet and leave things well enough alone. Too bad that the sewer excavators didn't do the same thing.

29 posted on 10/19/2002 11:17:12 PM PDT by DeSoto
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To: vannrox
http://cluster4.biosci.utexas.edu/deathvalley/Art/teratorn.htm

http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/TTORN.HTM

30 posted on 10/19/2002 11:23:50 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Go to this link for a semi hidden and impossible to tour facility in SOU, Southern Oregon University, Ashland.

This is the US Wild Life Forensics Lab hidden in SOU. There have been a few interesting and wild books in recent years that have used this lab as a key part of their books, re samples of stuff sent to this lab.

Go to the site and as an academic, just read through how it was founded and about the tours and the work done there.

I had a friend in Medford call it the NAS/CIA/Langley of the West re critter things and things that ain't critters.
31 posted on 10/19/2002 11:25:38 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
Fascinating reading! Interesting how all of this data has been kinda hidden.
32 posted on 10/19/2002 11:30:30 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Well you know my feelings about the charlatans of the Envirals posing as scientists to push the phoney global warming, the phoney all the salmon in the world are dying, the spotted owl scams, right up to planting lynx hairs to do more phoney science.
33 posted on 10/19/2002 11:32:41 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: DeSoto
I would have done exactly what you did for the same reasons.
34 posted on 10/19/2002 11:35:29 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
Did you give the Link you mentioned at post #31?
35 posted on 10/19/2002 11:46:01 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Grampa Dave
I found the link, thanks to Google!

United States Fish and Wildlife National Forensics Lab

36 posted on 10/19/2002 11:52:15 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Grampa Dave
Found this:

Wildlife forensics lab

In the May 1993 issue, L&O reported on organized crime's involvement in illegal wildlife smuggling and poaching. The situation is so serious that a federal forensics laboratory is devoted to supporting the investigation of wildlife crime. It's services are available to you (LEOs).

37 posted on 10/19/2002 11:55:19 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
You're an idiot.
38 posted on 10/20/2002 12:47:46 AM PDT by I got the rope
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To: Old Professer
Took them home for what?

Fidosaurus, what else?

ROTLFMAO... YOu insufferable wag...

I live about 20 miles from Woodburn, as the Scud missile flies (we don't like Woodburn much around here, for reasons which would get me kicked off this website)

(but I will say, whatever was buried there, if it tradition holds across the millenia, probably got itself methodically killed, by propounding a degenerate culture among a civilized people...)

39 posted on 10/20/2002 1:30:20 AM PDT by fire_eye
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Oops, too late at night and that link was not included.

Glad that you found it.

You can't find that lab by doing a search of OSU/Ashland, Or.. Yet, the fish and game people of Kali, Oregon and other states state that it is part of OSU. It is not.

They do good stuff in helping to bring poachers and idiots to justice for illegally killing wild life. Then they will use some awesome powers to seize cougars killed by cops/citizens and keep the kills quite. Apparently there is a lot of controversy re the wolves coming back into Oregon and other nearby states. The wolf evidence goes there and nothing comes out.

Having said that, they were apparently the ones who broke the story of the planting of the lynx hairs by the enviral whackos working for the Floristry Circus in Washington. They identified the so called wild lynx hair that was planted as lynx hair from a previous non wild source. Their evidence, when they do decide to present it is so well documented, the bad guys will plead guilty to get lighter terms. Most of the reasonable judges out here on the West Coast will hammer poachers and illegal game killers based on the thorough evidence that comes from this group.

40 posted on 10/20/2002 7:32:58 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: staytrue
I don't know where you get your facts, but my study of history indicates that stealing of land from one's conquered opponent was in vogue as late as WWI. Look at how the Austro-Hungarian Empire was re-shaped into Poland, Germany, etc.

If anything it was America that pioneered the END of the stealing of land from a conquered opponent. Instead, America rebuilt conquered foes into formidable trading partners with democratic freedoms and healthy economies.

The spoils of war were equally acceptable in 1850 as they were in 10,000 B.C.

You ignore my entire point that the North American Indian tribes claim some sovereign dibs on the continent as if they blossomed on Midwestern prairies. American Indians' grievance their land was violently stolen from them, which of course I do not dispute, is not mutually exclusive from the high probability that they stole it from some other people as well. Same goes for the Mexicans. We stole it fair and square and we don't owe anyone any apologies.

41 posted on 10/20/2002 10:50:41 PM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free
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To: I got the rope
And this is your NYU Doctoral thesis, yes? Such elegant reasoning as this well crafted argument of yours has left me speechless. You must be a University Professor at least. What eloquence! I defer to your superior intellect. Thank you for informing me that I am an idiot. My life is not complete. Thank you thank you thank you. Kiss kiss kiss.
42 posted on 10/20/2002 10:53:48 PM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free
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To: nightdriver
Ahh, but man without the requisite spirit attuned to God's Spirit. The descendants of Adam were possessed of body, soul, AND spirit. Humankind are of the animal kingdom, but Adamkind are a new creation from the animal kingdom, just as the 'reborn' are a new creation from Adamkind.
43 posted on 10/20/2002 10:57:20 PM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
We stole it fair and square

Define "stealing fair and square".

I will say that stealing "fair and square" was losing its legitimacy by about 1900. 10,000 years ago, "stealing fair and square" was quite honorable and continued to be honorable for thousands of years afterward.

Also, it's easy to say "stealing" is ok when one is the thief. If you are the victim, there is a greater tendency to say stealing is wrong.

44 posted on 10/20/2002 11:15:18 PM PDT by staytrue
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To: staytrue
Sorry, I thought I made it clear in a previous post. I'll repeat.

"Stealing fair and square" is clearly documented through the end of World War I in 1918 when the Austro-Hungarian Empire shattered into smaller constituent countries.

The process of "Stealing fair and square" was ended by the United States of America after World War II wherein we insisted that we would not gain territory as a result of haveing crushed our enemies unconditionally. Of course, Russia was not keen to this idea, so please note in the margin of your text that they stole all of the Eastern Bloc countries, known as those behind the Iron Curtain. We may have disapproved of their imperialism but it happened and we could do nothing to stop it.

Note that the date was 1945. Note also that Israel was made out of whole cloth by stealing someone elses property to provide for the Hebrews.

Note also that Tibet and Kasmir and South Vietnam and other countries were "stolen fair and square" long after that.

Your assertion that "stealing fair and square" was losing its legitamacy by 1900, is unfounded. It has occured right up to the modern day, if you look at how the Abanian Muslims stole Kosovo from the Yugoslavs.

If by losing its legitamacy you mean to say that you approved of territorial conquest before 1900 but not after 1900, the I beg to differ. Territorial conquest, except as the result of national self-defense, has always been immoral as it results in the theft of sovereign land of one nation by another which has no political right to that land.

The entire point to my original post was simply, we took America away from the Indians and the Mexicans at a time when they were taking land from others. We may not have had a moral right to do so but it is done and so be it. I for one think I am better off.

45 posted on 10/21/2002 10:09:39 PM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
Ok...I admit that was unfair, but it was late and me had not smok'em peace pipe before posting. I find it morally reprehensible that our country has broken so many treaties with Indians...treaties that were ratified by the Senate and had the signiture of the sitting Presidents of the time. I don't give a damn what other countries did in Europe or other places in the world, but I do care about what this country did in it's past. It set dangerous precedents against freedom, and has left most of the Native people of this country in a sorry state. Permenant welfare has destroyed them. We are seeing this now with other minorities today. It amazes me that we ever created the Bureau of Indian Affairs. It sickens me that this abomination still exists. Do you think the blacks of today would stand for a Bureau of African Affairs...or better yet would people stand for a Bureau of Jewish Affairs?

I defer to your superior intellect.

As you should...I am from West Texas...born and raised. I thought you should know this, so that next time you just might take "my word" for it.

Oh, by the way, insinuating that I am liberal, yankee, carpet-bagging reprobate was a low blow. You might as well have called me a union member.

46 posted on 10/22/2002 4:54:37 PM PDT by I got the rope
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Just adding this to the GGG catalog, not sending a general distribution.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

47 posted on 05/19/2005 9:08:03 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
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Note: this topic is from 2002.Just updating the GGG info.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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48 posted on 12/14/2008 5:51:11 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, December 6, 2008 !!!)
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