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GUN GROUPS SEE STEADY BLEED INTO MILITIAS
Pravda - English Version ^ | 18 October 2001 | BILL WHITE

Posted on 10/21/2002 5:54:44 PM PDT by tarawa

BILL WHITE: GUN GROUPS SEE STEADY BLEED INTO MILITIAS; DOMESTIC UNREST STILL GROWING IN UNITED STATES

When agents of America’s US Marshals surrounded the Indiana Baptist Temple, accusing the church and its parishioners of violating US tax laws by refusing to pay social security taxes on non-clergical employees, they didn’t charge in with guns blazing, as they did at Waco. Concern about bad publicity was there, but there was a more serious concern just under the surface – the Southern Indiana Regional Militia, a 250-man “unorganized” citizen’s militia unit, had pledged to defend the church – and their threats were taken seriously.

"Steps have been taken and we are ready to respond if something does happen," Roger Stalcup, elected commander of the militia, told Indiana’s Hoosier Times, “It's my opinion that if you've got people in that church and the U.S. marshals go in, anything can happen”

His statements were taken seriously, and his unit, which marches under the slogan “God Bless The Republic -- Death to the New World Order”, was listed in a press release by the US Marshals as a major reason they chose to negotiate, rather than raid, the dissident religious group’s headquarters. The Southern Indiana Regional Militia had been trained in small-unit tactics by former US military personnel, several of whom hold officer ranks in the citizen’s group, and their ability to take on the US government in a fire fight could not only have been difficult for the federal police forces – it could have been disastrous.

The Southern Indiana Regional Militia is not an isolated phenomena – it is one of hundreds of similar units which have been growing in size and influence across the country since the announcement by George the First of his plans for a “New World Order” – a New World Order that many Americans believe is planning to destroy the US Constitution and enact dictatorial martial law in the name of the United Nations and the international corporate-socialism.

Origins In America’s Gun Activist Community

There are three issues that motivate America’s militia movement – support of gun rights, opposition to taxation, and opposition to the United Nations and the loss of America’s sovereignty to global corporate rule – a system the militias see as socialism and anti-globalists label capitalism, and which is really a blend of the worst elements of the two. Among these issues, the most important, the one that seems most immediately threatening, and which has been the prime motivation for the existence of the militia movement, has been the possibility of nation-wide confiscation of firearms by the US Federal government. In America, the people know that the foundation of their liberty is their ability to use firearms to resist government police and military personnel, and it is widely believed that an attempt to confiscate their arms will be the first step in imposing a dictatorship on US citizens. Daily this has seemed more real, and thus there has been a steady bleed of activists out of mainstream groups like the National Rifle Association, and into more confrontational activist groups, like Gun Owners of America and the Tyranny Response Team, and eventually into militias and other armed non-governmental formations.

The NRA recently reported in the last election, with voters faced with the threat of anti-gun Al Gore winning the presidency, that its membership surged from under three million to over four million. Some say that number is slowly edging closer to five. In a nation of 280 million people, nearly 1.5% of the population – one person out of sixty six – is a member of the country’s largest gun lobby.

It is from these membership figures, and from the ability to mobilize large numbers of activists at the local level and bring them out to work polls and fill campaign offices for pro-gun politicians, that the NRA has always derived its power. While there is no doubt of the NRA’s monetary power, it’s opponents, often funded by billionaires like Andrew J. McKelvey, can usually match or exceed it in that arena. What the NRA has that anti-gun groups don’t is the ability to bring out tens of thousands of Americans each election cycle to hand out literature, plant road signs, fold mailings, and engage in the community activism needed to fight anti-gun legislation. But it is in this arena that upstart groups have offered the most competition.

Gun Owners of America, headed by Larry Pratt, is a radically pro-gun organization that, in contrast to the NRA, has called for the elimination of all regulations on firearms purchases and ownership, including mandatory background checks, and which has taken a hard line against the United Nations. Pratt is a radical Constitutionalist and Christian who openly mixes his religious beliefs with his politics, and has been accused of sharing the stage with even more extreme leaders – including members of the Aryan Nations and the Ku Klux Klan (though he has not been accused of sharing their views). In 1996, that accusation forced Pratt out as an aid to the Buchanan campaign. In 1998, according to anti-gun researcher Kenneth Stern, Pratt’s organization had 100,000 members. Now, similar anti-gun researchers estimate his group has grown to as many as 150,000 – 200,000 in size, and there is no question that the core of his strength is NRA grassroots activists who are leaving the NRA to be involved in more militant forms of activism.

Another group that has worked with Pratt’s, and which forms an even more confrontational front of its own, is the Tyranny Response Team, a network of pro-gun “minute men”, based on the minute men militias of the American Revolution, who go out to anti-gun events and to speeches by anti-gun politicians to confront and challenge the often skewed and distorted presentation of gun politics. The TRT, founded by Jewish gun store owner Bob Glass, has also gone beyond gun activism, holding regular 500-man protests against the Internal Revenue Service and the United Nations conference on small arms. While the TRT declined to give out membership information, it has branches in approximately 33 states, and most branches have 50 to 100 regular active members, meaning the group comprises at least 1500 regular activists nationwide – with an unknown number of less-active “supporting” members.

These groups, with their anti-globalist, anti-UN rhetoric and primitive class perspective – what Americans call “populism” – have begun to draw more radical elements of the NRA, such as Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre, to adopt similar rhetoric. In a recent issue of America’s First Freedom – the NRA’s fast-growing political magazine – LaPierre denounced global corporations, the wealthy, and ruling-class billionaires as being behind the plot to take away America’s Second Amendment rights.

And while groups like Gun Owner’s of America and the Tyranny Response Team are not militias per se, and often engage in very mainstream pandering in some of their rhetoric – the headquarters branch of the TRT in particular is ultra-Zionist, with its members sometimes appearing in public with yellow Stars of David reading “gun owner” in an attempt to link the current conflict between gun owners and the US government with the conflict between Jews and the German Third Reich – they serve as a bridge for gun owners who don’t want to engage in the compromising, pro-Republican politics of the NRA, but who also reject the more extreme step of joining armed formations that openly challenge the power of the central government – groups like the Southern Indiana Regional Militia.

A Case Study In Radical Growth

Recently, in Montgomery County, Maryland, a relatively affluent suburb of Washington, DC, the local government attempted to ban gun shows – large, open exhibitions where guns and traded and sold on tables set up at the local fairgrounds. The result was a series of protests that destroyed the local NRA organization, led to the radicalization of its local head, and which left a definite imprint on local politics.

Augustus Alzona, an official in the Maryland Republican Party Central Committee, and the head of the County NRA’s lobbying division at the time (NRA-ILA), was incensed at the decision of local officials to ban trading in guns. When he heard that a hearing was planned, he began organizing members to show up and protest the government’s decision.

But Greg Costa, the NRA’s official lobbyist in the State of Maryland, was equally incensed at Alzona’s decision to hold protests. Costa views the NRA as a “moderate” and “non-confrontational” organization, and decided to make his legislative priority in the state not a pending local ban on gun shows, but stopping a noise ordinance that would have threatened a business investment he had made in a local shooting range. He ordered Alzona not to hold protests, and when Alzona refused, Costa fired him from his position in the NRA:

“I told him I didn’t want them to protest and he wouldn’t listen. I can’t have people doing what I tell them not to do,” Costa told a Pravda source.

The meeting collapsed in a raucous bout as pro-gun protestors threatened to shoot local Councilmembers if they passed the legislation. Local news media focused on the role of the Tyranny Response Team in the protests, though the truth was that most of the anger came from more radical elements not affiliated with the TRT group. For Alzona, it was a decisive moment. He took on a new role in the TRT Maryland group as its Volunteer Media Coordinator. Regarding the NRA, he told Pravda that Costa was a liar, and that his non-involvement in activism was a motivator for this defection:

“I've never spoken to [Costa] regarding the gun show bill and any of it's ramifications - never have, so far. I did try to reach him to discuss last February's hearing a week before the …hearing, but, never did.”

And Alzona isn’t the only Maryland activist that sees the NRA and its lobby as ineffective, unreachable, and out of touch. John Latham, a gun activist who joined the NRA in the wake of the anti-gun hysteria that followed the Columbine shootings, decided to move over to the TRT as well. He has now declared he is running for the State Legislature as an Independent in Maryland’s 16th legislative district, and told Pravda he left the NRA because he grew tired of the people and their perspective on what gun rights activism means:

“A man reaches a certain age he decides he wants to have a club,” Latham told Pravda, “I don’t consider that real activism … that’s a club, not a lobby.”

The Real Activists

The Southern Poverty Law Center, a rather shady group of lawyers who make profit by suing organizations they label as “hateful”, has been reporting that the number of “militia” groups active in the United States has been declining. Unfortunately, their research is badly skewed, as they count as a “militia” group anyone who opens a post office box and declares themselves a one-man “militia”. Other figures, such as those circulated by the ADL, a Jewish organization which is opposed to the private ownership of firearms, estimates that while the number of groups may be shrinking, this is due to a consolidation of activists in a smaller number of larger organizations, and that as many as one million Americans may be sympathetic to, and peripherally involved in, militia activity.

This has been evidenced as well by the “radicalization” of mainstream groups that share common views with the militias, but until recently have not shared the militia’s extreme image and tactics. Southern groups – groups that represent the values of America’s White Southern minority – have been particularly radicalized in recent months with the continuation of a campaign by the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, a pro-black group with origins in the communist movement of the turn of the last century, to destroy public monuments to the Southern Revolution and to the Southern Nation – known as “Dixie” -- which existed from 1861-1865 during the American Civil War. With a heritage based in revolt against the US federal government, and with an often deeply held belief in the independence of the states and the decentralization of government power, views that motivate Southern political thinking and ideology have definitely exerted their influence over militia thinkers.

One militia group based in Southern values that recently drew attention was the Militia of Georgia, an armed formation consisting of what researchers claim is 300 men who operate in at least 20 cells throughout the state, which ordered its members to mobilize in the wake of the September 11 bombings, and to be on guard against attempts by the government to use the bombings to create a New World Order. The local commander, Jimmy Wynn, in a message to his membership wrote:

“When we cease to intervene in the affairs of every nation on earth, maybe some of these people will leave us alone. … The WTC attack should be a WAKE UP CALL. I need each of you to become involved … each of you needs to take preparedness seriously (we could go to war and it could reach our shores) … The biggest thing we need is commitment: the commitment … [to] prepare ourselves. THE TIME FOR ACTION IS NOW!!!”

The Potential For Separatism

America’s Southerners aren’t the only regional-ethnic groups seeking independence from the cosmopolitan internationalism of the nations’ elite. Rural New Englanders have launched a “blood and soil” separatist movement of their own. Carolyn Chute’s Second Maine Militia, a group that has mixed right-wing, left-wing, and green politics, as well as regional ethnic identity and national separatism, into a 500+ man armed formation based in Northern New England and Canada’s eastern provinces, re-released a manifesto calling for people in New England and Canada to revolt and create a new nation – the New Atlantic Confederacy – independent of either government, should the impending war on terrorism cause the central government to lose the ability to maintain control in America’s more remote rural areas. Her movement is explicitly pro-gun and anti-capitalist, and deals regularly with other “right-wing” militia organization active in the area. As Chute put it in a 2000 interview:

“Behind all those urban killings are people created by the Great Progressive Society. These people are not revolting against the Great Progressive Society. They are raw imitations of the Great Progressive Society. We are led to believe that the professional middle class are the winners, the working class are the losers. … As I see it, class is about values, dependence and ways of communicating. The working class person values place, interdependence, cooperation, the tribe. Rural working class especially values land. Many of us would kill to keep our land, our home, which for thousands of years was not considered a crazy thing to do. Middle-class professionals are into "success" and they are a dependent people, happily dependent on the consumer system for everything. You call it independence. But if you lost your electricity, your service people, your access to stores, you'd see how independent you are! Working-class people have become dependent on these things, too, but working-class values resent this dependency.”

And Chute’s movement is growing. She recently joked that she could probably maintain 1500 men under arms in the State of Maine alone “if she could keep up with the mail”, and in a state of emergency, the number of women seeking protection under arms from ready formations would likely swell those ranks.

With groups like Chute’s growing in every state of the Union, and the central government growing more and more willing to enact the kind of emergency measures that these groups are willing to fight against, the potential for wide-spread confrontation, and wide-spread revolt, particularly in the context of a break-down of government control caused by massive terrorist attacks, is growing.

Domestic Unrest and Anthrax

As the US has continued to see its media and government institutions attacked by anthrax-infected letters, a debate has raged over who is responsible. The Zionist-dominated US media has used the attacks as an excuse to implicate Iraq, though that effort seems to be motivated more by political gain than the actual facts. Though Iraq was found by UN weapons inspectors, during the 1990s, to have built two missile warheads with liquid anthrax payloads, the weapons were discounted by US experts as “ineffective”, and Iraq is not known to have the ability to create the refined powder form of anthrax being used in the recent attacks. In fact, that ability exists in only two organizations in two countries – the US and Russian governments.

The US federal government also appears to believe in the domestic terror theory. Recently, the Center for Disease Control re-released a 1999 report authored by Jessica Stern of the Council of Foreign Relations, stating that most anthrax threats in the United States are linked to “far-right militia” organizations. Certainly, some of the recent scares, including the mailing of over 100 bogus threat letters to Planned Parenthood clinics, match the “far-right militia” pattern. But the possibility that the actual anthrax cases are linked to militia groups has been seized on by social democratic political lobbyists in an attempt to turn the US “war on terrorism” against dissident groups back at home. Australian terrorism “specialist” Clive Williams recently told the Times of India with utmost confidence:

”I think the first instances of [the anthrax threats], the ones involving media, were more likely to have been caused by extremist militia in the US who have shown an interest in anthrax in the past and tried to acquire it. The subsequent instances were basically copy-cat episodes by mentally unbalanced people.” But no US militia group is known to posses the refined, military form of anthrax being used against the US media and government, and most US militia groups are more concerned with defending themselves against anthrax than spreading it in such a way that their families and communities might be affected. That leaves a third possibility – that the recent anthrax attacks have been committed by members of the US political establishment against other members of that establishment – a theory boosted by the revelation that two of the most recent victims – Tom Brokaw and Tom Daschle – are apparently good friends who’s families know each other and often vacation together in the Dakotas.

In short, it appears more likely at this point that the recent string of anthrax threats in the US is the result of a deterioration of the internal political situation, than of an outside threat to the integrity of the nation. The question of whether it is related to the growing armed dissent against the central government is open however, as it may simply be a manifestation of political factions using instability as an excuse for assassination.

Conclusion: America’s Militia Movement Is Not To Be Discounted

It is clear that the rural people of American – the mostly white population descended from the original European settlers of the nation – have become alienated from the cosmopolitan blend of urban white liberals and their train of ethnically defined special interests that have gained control of America’s cities. One only has to look at a map of who voted for George Bush and who voted for Al Gore to see that a clear divide has occurred between the values of the country’s elite and their lackeys, and the real working people of the nation.

America’s white working class, so long reviled by the intellectuals and the clique that control the government, has been organizing itself into regional-ethnically based citizen militias that are prepared to fight to restore the values of their ancestor’s revolution two hundred and twenty five years ago. For the first time in a century, more of America’s white population lives in rural areas than in it’s cities, and that demographic change is only one indicator of the larger, more widely spread divide.

Should the American nation fracture, whether due to a massive terrorist attack, the repressive domestic policies of its government, or a combination of both, it is clear that there are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of Americans who are already organized in paramilitary armed formation for the goal of seizing power and restoring the Constitutional Republic that they feel progressive liberalism has lost them.

Osama bin Laden has said that he feels that terrorist attacks can create enough instability in America that forces that already want to change the course of the government will see it weakened enough that an opportunity to act will emerge. With the growing divorce between an imperial government of usurpation and the nation’s original Constitutional principles, bin Laden may not be far off.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: banglist; domesticviolence; goa; splc
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1 posted on 10/21/2002 5:54:45 PM PDT by tarawa
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To: tarawa
Bump for later read.
2 posted on 10/21/2002 6:00:37 PM PDT by Kerberos
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To: tarawa
How did the militia movement start?

IMHO it was because the anti-gun nuts forced it to begin. Since they claimed that RKBA pertains only to "militias", voila we have militias.

Whatever it takes.

--Boris

3 posted on 10/21/2002 6:08:29 PM PDT by boris
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To: *bang_list
bang
4 posted on 10/21/2002 6:09:46 PM PDT by Djarum
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To: tarawa
Pratt is a radical Constitutionalist and Christian who openly mixes his religious beliefs with his politics...

"Radical Constitutionalist" aka "getting it right".

"Openly"? Are you kidding? The horror of it all! /sarcasm

If his religion is genuine, it will mix with every aspect of his life, political or otherwise. And it will do so openly, not just behind closed doors.

5 posted on 10/21/2002 6:12:41 PM PDT by Prince Caspian
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To: tarawa
I believe that this is the first article of militias or even the mention of such that I have seen on FR since Clinton left office. LOL
6 posted on 10/21/2002 6:14:29 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: tarawa
... National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, a pro-black group with origins in the communist movement of the turn of the last century,...

Interesting comment from Pravda, "Official Newspaper" of the former USSR.

7 posted on 10/21/2002 6:21:25 PM PDT by DuncanWaring
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To: tarawa
Good read. I find it fair and truthful. (esp. about Mo Dees! et alia)

Also noticed that the author has an excellent command of written English: didn't notice any of the usual idiomatic errors that are currency in the Western press. Pravda....go figure.

If this sample is indicative of the general quality of Russian media, we're gonna have to play catch-up.

8 posted on 10/21/2002 6:21:57 PM PDT by dasboot
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To: tarawa
support of gun rights, opposition to taxation, and opposition to the United Nations and the loss of America’s sovereignty to global corporate rule
Seems perfectly reasonable to me...
9 posted on 10/21/2002 6:24:32 PM PDT by Libertina
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To: tarawa
the Southern Indiana Regional Militia,

--------------------

Somehow the existence of such a group doesn't bother me. I'm too old to become involved with such things myself, but I think this is a healthy sign after what happened at Waco.

10 posted on 10/21/2002 6:25:04 PM PDT by RLK
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To: tarawa
Should the American nation fracture, whether due to a massive terrorist attack, the repressive domestic policies of its government, or a combination of both, it is clear that there are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of Americans who are already organized in paramilitary armed formation for the goal of seizing power and restoring the Constitutional Republic that they feel progressive liberalism has lost them.

Somebody Gets It. This fracture, this shattering of the American mirror into a thousand disparate shards has been in the works for years. For those with some sense of history, it's the third phase of what Antonio Gramsci envisioned for Western culture - the collapse of the West in general and America in particular into a nightmare of chaos, slaughter and anarchy. Gramsci figured that people would welcome a totalitarian savior with open arms.
Thanks to the 'change agents' our public school system who fill our kids' heads with phony self-esteem and hatred of the American Creed; thanks to the slow and steady poisoning of our intellectual life by the multi-cultural Marxism preached with Stalinist rigor in our universities; thanks to the elites leading the steady march of our culture - art, music, theater, literature - into the gutter; thanks to the hate-filled liars who promote class, race and gender warfare in an effort to drag us down into the kind of tribalism that has kept Africa one of the most brutal and poverty-stricken places on Earth; thanks to each and every empty-headed and soulless monster whose sick fantasies of power and domination over every sphere of human thought and endeavor have caused the deaths of over a hundred of million in the last century alone -

GRAMSCI WAS RIGHT.

A sizable percentage of the American public is now so dumbed down, so rabbit-scared, so entitled that they'd welcome the Man on the White Horse as soon as he rode onstage.

My family and I will resist that eventuality with every means at our disposal.

11 posted on 10/21/2002 6:26:04 PM PDT by Noumenon
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To: tarawa
" . . . . it is widely believed that an attempt to confiscate their arms will be the first step in imposing a dictatorship on US citizens."

Thanks for the report. I would only add that It is more widely believed that a successful attempt to confiscate firearms will be the last step in implementing a full-blown dictatorship. It won't last long though. My grandkids told me.

12 posted on 10/21/2002 6:26:15 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: tarawa
Though I have some reservations about some of the editorializing in this article, it is spot on in many areas. A surprisingly candid and honest analysis of the discontent of the "red zone" with the federal leviathan.

Ironic that it comes from Pravda. Look at the treatment ABCNNBCBS or America's print media would have given this subject. Sheesh, even a Russian paper understands the 2nd Amendment. Now who is the real propaganda engine?
13 posted on 10/21/2002 6:27:05 PM PDT by AK2KX
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To: tarawa
Radicalism in defense of the Constitution is no vice.
Silence in it's support is no virtue.
To paraphrase.
14 posted on 10/21/2002 6:29:14 PM PDT by tet68
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To: tarawa
"....Other figures, such as those circulated by the ADL, a Jewish organization which is opposed to the private ownership of firearms...."

They being leftist, I no doubt believe the ADL would support an incrementalist approach to achieving its desired ends. First, I purpose disarming all Jews…..
I’ll have to write a letter to them to get their support.

15 posted on 10/21/2002 6:37:26 PM PDT by Leisler
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To: Eastbound
Here in Texas we have a state-sponsored, state approved militia. It is an all volunteer organization, under the command of the Governor,and would be used to keep order in the event the National Guard is activated by the Feds and the state left defenseless. Most of the "State Guard" units in Texas are designated military policy and would back up the locals. Uniforms and weapons are provided by the individual volunteers and the age limits are 17 to 59.
I've thought of joining and attending monthly drills
(ususally held at a National Guard Armory) but there is not one close to where I live. Question: Would membership
in a State approved militia guarantee second amendment rights to keep and bear arms? Anyone know if other states
have these type of units? The Texas State Guard has
a web site for you Texas freepers interested in giving one weekend a month....
16 posted on 10/21/2002 6:38:23 PM PDT by larry h
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To: Noumenon
Sometimes resistance is futile: it's a big world out there, and there are indications (like this article) that the ideas of the Founders are spurring awakenings among formerly oppressed regions and peoples.

I have no desire to combat with reason communitarian zombies who have voluntarily rendered themselves witless , or to spend my happiness, property or life in defense of dirt: the ideas that I revere are portable, and welcome wherever people observe the Golden Rule.

Some of my ancestors came here fleeing tyranny; the time may come when the ancestral homelends entice me back.

I've taken note of numerous places around the globe where U.S. expats have formed little communities. Even in places like Chile, where the restrictions on general freedom are more severe than ours, these folks are relitively more free than we: these countries' governments are very vertical in their effect, and it's easy to remain out of the searchlight of scrutiny. Here, my neighbor is calling the authorities when I have a pile of horse dung higher than the town ordinances allow. I'm inclined to run away.

17 posted on 10/21/2002 6:55:09 PM PDT by dasboot
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To: tarawa
The author is an independent candidate for Maryland's House of Delegates from the 39th district in Montgomery County. He posts updates on an e-mail list I get, appears to be running an excellent campaign, and believes he has a good shot at winning one of the district's 3 seats. I see no reason to disbelieve him. White has connections with some scary groups, has some unusual philosophical leanings, and calls himself a Libertarian Socialist (I still don't see how that's not an oxymoron), but don't let all that repulse you too much. With a few notable exceptions, his platform (below) could just as easily come from a conservative/libertarian, and given the likely alternatives in socialist Mont. Co., I think he's worth supporting. His site is www.white2002.com :

The private right to own and carry an unregulated firearm, and to use firearms in self-defense.
The elimination of all forms of income taxation.
An end to all forms of war and imperialism.
The preservation of all Constitutionally guaranteed civil liberties, including the right to habeas corpus, the preservation of free speech and assembly, the right to be secure in property, and the right to be free from torture and cruel and unusual punishment.
The elimination of usury and the end of the role of finance capital in the economy. The restoration of the gold and silver standard.
The elimination of the corporation as an economic entity, and the end of corporate globalization.
The creation of political diversity through the protection of the rights of third party and independent political candidates and voters.
The expulsion of the United Nations from New York, and a withdrawal of the US from the UN.
Private, decentralized ownership of the media, and a breakup of all media monopolies dependent on cable, tv and radio licenses.
The elimination of the public educational system and all forms of government interference in the raising of our youth.
The elimination of the juvenile psychiatric system.
The elimination of policing forces under the control of the executive branch of the government.
The preservation of Traditional Indo-European cultural values and the promotion of Traditional religion.

18 posted on 10/21/2002 6:55:41 PM PDT by ForOurFuture
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To: DuncanWaring; lavaroise; EditorTFP; bat-boy; Noswad
And they are overtly trying to do a number of things in this article:

1. Gain the favor of those in militias, or, those who are borderline and are getting frustrated with the urban liberals.

2. Incite even more divisiveness in the US than already exists.

3. Identify some sort of class warfare in which the rural middle class white is the oppressed and the urban liberals (on both extremes, the wealthy and their underclass interest groups) are the oppressors.

All of this points to the worst sort of foreign influence; that which wants to send the very force of good in the USA, those who typically voted for Bush in 2000, and those allied with them, to their own destruction in a hail of would be CW2 gunfire. Now why would the Russians want to do that?

19 posted on 10/21/2002 6:56:44 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD
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To: tet68
Well said.
20 posted on 10/21/2002 7:01:40 PM PDT by Barry Goldwater
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To: ForOurFuture
Oh well, his article is a lot better than his platform. He had me, then he lost me. There's a lot of force involved in his "eliminate this and that" idiology. He'd have to have a socialist police state apparatus and international co-operation to achieve his Utopia.
21 posted on 10/21/2002 7:08:04 PM PDT by dasboot
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To: Noumenon
The question is: Will Liberty emerge the victor? I fear the brain-washing of the American citizen combined with incredible technology and weaponry will defeat any resistance effort at some point in the future.
22 posted on 10/21/2002 7:12:15 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: larry h
Here in Texas we have a state-sponsored, state approved militia. It is an all volunteer organization, under the command of the Governor,and would be used to keep order in the event the National Guard is activated by the Feds and the state left defenseless. Most of the "State Guard" units in Texas are designated military policy and would back up the locals.

-----------

Where was this militia during the slaughter at Waco?

23 posted on 10/21/2002 7:21:21 PM PDT by RLK
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To: Skywalk
At the time of the revolution less than 15% of the population wanted a violent break from England.

Just imagine if 10% of the population decided to start shooting. 28 million people can make a big mess in a big hurry, in fact just imagine that only one million decided to take matters into their own hands.

Our Founding Fathers gave us guns and emphasized our right to have them as a form of insurance.

Until they take our guns, I ain't too concerned about liberty.
24 posted on 10/21/2002 7:27:34 PM PDT by Pylot
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To: ForOurFuture
Specifically:

"end war and imperialism--Huh?

Gold and silver...good idea;

eliminate "usury"? Definition? Bad idea...anti usury task force required. No incentive to investment. Against the natural law, reason, freedom.

eliminate corporations? Wicked dumb. Again, anti-freedom, anti free-association.

create political diversity? Scuse me? This guy is a walking oxymoron.....another great leveler....getting worse...

Radio licenses? Gee, I'd think he'd think the airwaves are free! More statist gloppery.

Eliminate police function for Federal jurisdiction? Not rational: (without a remedy, there is no law) Why do they call it 'executive"?

Preservation of indo...yadda yadda....He is what he pretends to loathe.

Yep, he's a nutcase.

25 posted on 10/21/2002 7:29:07 PM PDT by dasboot
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To: larry h
[Here in Texas we have a state-sponsored, state approved militia. ]

I am so ashamed to say I did not know that!!!

26 posted on 10/21/2002 7:30:15 PM PDT by nanny
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To: dasboot
[I've taken note of numerous places around the globe where U.S. expats have formed little communities.]

Would you care to share some of those places? Seriously, I would like to know.

27 posted on 10/21/2002 7:32:29 PM PDT by nanny
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To: tarawa
His statements were taken seriously, and his unit, which marches under the slogan “God Bless The Republic -- Death to the New World Order”, was listed in a press release by the US Marshals as a major reason they chose to negotiate, rather than raid, the dissident religious group’s headquarters.

This is BS.

The Indiana Baptist Temple was told that its property would be seized for payment of back taxes after it lost in the Supreme Court.

The date was published, the pastor placed himself in the sanctuary on said date. He was carried out on a stretcher, members were escorted out, and US Marshals locked the doors.

There was never any hint that the church would be "raided."

28 posted on 10/21/2002 7:34:29 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: tarawa
From Pravda? I'm impressed.

5.56mm

29 posted on 10/21/2002 7:36:15 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: Noumenon
GRAMSCI WAS RIGHT.

That bears repeating.

We are losing the culture war, a conflict which is a far bigger threat to the Republic than al-Qaeda.

Regards

J.R.

30 posted on 10/21/2002 7:43:24 PM PDT by NMC EXP
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To: tarawa
interesting post.
31 posted on 10/21/2002 7:48:30 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: dd5339
Ping
The Revolution will be telivised.....
32 posted on 10/21/2002 7:48:34 PM PDT by cavtrooper21
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To: RLK
Under the command of the Governor is the key here...not to be used against Federal troops...but to help maintain order and defend the State in event of an invasion or insurection
in the absence of federal troops or the National Guard
33 posted on 10/21/2002 7:48:36 PM PDT by larry h
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To: nanny
Nanny....type in Texas State Guard and you should be referred to a number of Web Sites. My grandad was too old for WWII, but served in the State Guard instead. Carried his 12 guage, supplied his own uniform, and patrolled the
beaches of galveston Island and other coastal points on a number of occasions.
34 posted on 10/21/2002 7:51:43 PM PDT by larry h
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To: larry h
Missouri has state sanctioned militias.
35 posted on 10/21/2002 8:02:54 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: dasboot; DuncanWaring
Factual political reporting in Pravda! Who'd have thunk it? My father was a diplomat with the U.S. Embassy in Moscow at the height of the Cold War. The Russians wouldn't waste their money buying Pravda, so the government posted it in large glass cases on street corners. I remember watching ordinary Russians reading it and laughing heartily at the transparently fictional articles. How times change, in less than half a lifetime. I can't even begin to imagine what the world will be like when I'm an old white-haired lady.
36 posted on 10/21/2002 8:04:46 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: dasboot
Argentina, perhaps? No, not if you are a Yankee. LOL
37 posted on 10/21/2002 8:05:06 PM PDT by Conservababe
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To: nanny
Pick a place! These locations are like an American version of Chinatown, and exist all over the globe. I read about them mostly in the on-line logs of circumnavigating sailors, but they are also infrequently mentioned in news articles and travel mags--usually a tangental reference. (National Geographic mentions some occasionally....if you can read it without gagging) Chile and the Azores are of particular interest to me. I have friends outside Santiago who rave about the place. The Azores are like heaven-on-earth. Very appealing if you're inclined to the primitive.
38 posted on 10/21/2002 8:14:26 PM PDT by dasboot
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To: tarawa
A point of clarification. Pravda is no longer an official arm of the government in Russia. A lot of information is pretty straight although there are also a lot of kooks, weirdos and assorted malcontents who post there on the forums.
39 posted on 10/21/2002 8:19:06 PM PDT by RichardW
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To: nanny
Would you care to share some of those places? Seriously, I would like to know.

American ex-pats can be found all around the world. Start your journey by clicking here. Personally, I have my eye on Belize. America is heading downhill FAST; plan accordingly.



40 posted on 10/21/2002 8:25:09 PM PDT by who knows what evil?
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To: tarawa
A number of year ago, I attended a speech by one Arkady Shevchenko, then the highest ranking Soviet official to defect to the West. He had been their top guy at the UN.

He spoke, interestingly, at KENNESAW COLLEGE (and we all know what Kennesaw is famous for!).

His talk dealt with the clear intent of the leadership of the old Soviet Union to somehow take America. He mentioned their ICBMs and the nuclear blackmail threat THEY posed.

Then he broke from his prepared remarks and offered this:

"The leaders of my country are as AFRAID OF YOUR 200 MILLION PRIVATE FIREARMS as they are of your ICBMs. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUNS."

Frankly -- and, while he had to be careful as he was under FBI protection at the time, Shevchenko alluded to this in his remarks -- I'm as concerned about some domestic tyrant (say, Hillary or Chuck Schumer) as I am about some foreign enemy.

41 posted on 10/21/2002 8:25:47 PM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: tarawa
Somebody better tell Pravda that even the Southern Poverty Law Center says Militias are a dying beast.
42 posted on 10/21/2002 8:30:39 PM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
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To: who knows what evil?
Nice link!

I don't plan on buying any property or starting a business anywhere, though: I'm reducing my holdings to a 30' bluewater sailboat. I've always wanted to be an ocean-hippie!

I have an acquaintance who's been out there for 22 years and twice around the world. Just married a gal from China, and doesn't appear to feel like he's missing anything. I'm tired of cleaning gutters (thanks Fred Reed), political angst, and all the life-sucking duties of middle=class existence. I gotta live before I die.

Send you a postcard.

43 posted on 10/21/2002 8:46:48 PM PDT by dasboot
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To: tarawa
Nice catch on this article. Generally, I am dismissive of pieces from Pravda, but this one is substantially more right than wrong. They are spot on with the remarks about the SPLC and NAACP, and pretty close with the comments about NRA and GOA.

More importantly, they have insights into the rural movements that are most definately strong and building, and that are completely outside the knowledge of most of the inhabitants of the self-absorbed 'gorezone' ...

Still, I don't believe the anthrax last year was domestic. That is a bit of a leap.
44 posted on 10/21/2002 8:48:54 PM PDT by spodefly
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To: dasboot
I gotta live before I die.

Amen! (Escape Artist rocks...lots of good info there...take some time to dig around!)



45 posted on 10/21/2002 8:50:44 PM PDT by who knows what evil?
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To: tarawa
Carolyn Chute’s Second Maine Militia, ........ Her movement is explicitly pro-gun and anti-capitalist, and deals regularly with other “right-wing” militia organization active in the area.

How can someone who is "pro-gun" be "anti-capitalist"? That's crazy. Carolyn Chute distrusts the government but would prefer government ownership of firearm manufacurers. In other words, her militia would depend upon government-owned companies to supply the firearms they want to secure theit second amendment rights against the government.

46 posted on 10/21/2002 8:51:14 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: big ern
The Southern Poverty Law Center, a rather shady group of lawyers who make profit by suing organizations they label as “hateful”,

You won't find that analysis in the New York Times.

47 posted on 10/21/2002 8:53:57 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: who knows what evil?
Check out www.yachtatom.com
48 posted on 10/21/2002 8:54:42 PM PDT by dasboot
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To: larry h
The Second Amendment tells the feral gummint two things:

(a) Don't interfere with a state's right to form an armed militia for its security.

(b) Don't interfere with the people's right to keep and bear arms, regardless if they are in the militia or not.

I'm not sure what the situation is in Texas, or whether or not I would join a militia that meets and trains regularly. Actually, I'm too old anyway, but that wouldn't stop me if I had to defend my state or my country. I live in New Mexico, but am not sure if we have a state militia. I'm sure we would have one overnight if we ever needed one.

I guess it's up to the individual here to keep the invaders off their property and out of their neighborhoods. Many of us have our property posted.


49 posted on 10/21/2002 9:35:39 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: larry h
[My grandad was too old for WWII, but served in the State Guard instead. Carried his 12 guage, supplied his own uniform, and patrolled the beaches of galveston Island and other coastal points on a number of occasions]

I am going to check that out. Thank you.

50 posted on 10/21/2002 11:52:23 PM PDT by nanny
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