Why Men Won't Commit: Men's Atitudes About Sex, Dating and Marriage

National Marriage Project (Rutgers University) ^ | 2002 | Barbara Dafoe Whitehead and David Popenoe

[SauronOfMordor]

No wonder men won't commit; its just too risky getting married if its not gonna last past the five year hump.

For a long time, Communists tried to do away with the free market and private property, with the view that these capitalistic institutions created oppression for the common people. But when it was tried, they discovered that getting rid of private property eliminated the incentive structure that made prosperity and civilization possible.

The feminists have worked hard to eliminate "the patriarchy" and male privilege, and give women all the advantages. We are starting to see that the changes have damaged the incentive structure which made marriage and children attractive to men, with the result that men are less inclined to be attracted to the idea of getting married and starting a family

The implications of this are troubling for the future of American society

[Utilizer]

"The feminists have worked hard to eliminate "the patriarchy" and male privilege, and give women all the advantages. We are starting to see that the changes have damaged the incentive structure which made marriage and children attractive to men, with the result that men are less inclined to be attracted to the idea of getting married and starting a family"

Well, speaking personally, it is not that I am not inclined to get married, it is simply that I prefer to wait and make a good choice. Or at least a more informed one, based upon experience, rather than accept the first offer that comes along -or 'settle' for someone who is conveniently available.

[Z in Oregon]

For a long time, Communists tried to do away with the free market and private property, with the view that these capitalistic institutions created oppression for the common people. But when it was tried, they discovered that getting rid of private property eliminated the incentive structure that made prosperity and civilization possible. The feminists have worked hard to eliminate "the patriarchy" and male privilege, and give women all the advantages. We are starting to see that the changes have damaged the incentive structure which made marriage and children attractive to men, with the result that men are less inclined to be attracted to the idea of getting married and starting a family The implications of this are troubling for the future of American society

Well said.

Will you be in "The Two Towers"?

[Z in Oregon]

Too, if it does not work out, and you have become involved with the child, what rights do you have to continue to see him/her? My experience is: none whatsoever. It seems to Me that the woman is holding all the cards in that area, and the heartache involved in the breakup of the relationship is all the more difficult because you have absolutely NO rights as far as the child is concerned. Is it any wonder we males are so reluctant?

Good point. "Single mothers" often complain that men don't want the baggage of a kid that isn't biologically theirs. Often that is true, but it's only half the story.

The other half is that if you get attached to your already-has-a-kid girlfriend's child, upon breakup, it can be a really sad scenario.

[Z in Oregon]

That happened to a friend of mine. He got married to a widow with a three-year-old daughter; he stepped fully into the fatherhood role, and the child loved him as her daddy. However, in a couple of years the marriage failed, no real fault by either just a lack of compatability, and my friend was denied the right to be a part of the life of the child who called him "Daddy", and who saw her in turn as his own daughter.

He was heartbroken, and rightfully so.

[Z in Oregon]

The marriage-destroying trend that needs to end is the judicial presumption of mother custody post-divorce. End that, everything else follows.

[msru]

ping

[SauronOfMordor]

Well, speaking personally, it is not that I am not inclined to get married, it is simply that I prefer to wait and make a good choice.

That's part of what I'm talking about. In the past, once marriage occurred, the wife had a strong incentive to make sure the husband stayed happy with the marriage -- if he walked away, things would get very hard for her. Therefore, her incentive was to get the best (good provider, easy to please) guy she could find within the fairly narrow time-window she had to get married in.

[BobS]

" Men can achieve their primary objective without marriage. How stupid can women be?"

It's up to you to tame one!

[Z in Oregon]

Men can achieve their primary objective without marriage.

If you think that the primary objective of men is meaningless dalliances, you completely misunderstand the nature of manhood. What you say applies to the sleazy minority, not to the noble majority.

[SauronOfMordor]

Will you be in "The Two Towers"?

I'm thinking of re-writing the script so I get those pesky hobbits in the end

[Z in Oregon]

"And as Gollum teetered at the brink of Mount Doom's all-consuming fires, holding the Ring aloft, Sauron swopped down, nabbed the Ring, put it on, kicked Gollum into the pit of the volcano, and used the power of the Ring to scare the bejeebers out of Frodo and Samwise."

---how Tolkien meant to end the trilogy

[hunter112]

Men are generally opposed to having a romantic relationship with a woman who works in their place of employment.

Reminds me of an old Mexican saying, "Do not dance on the table from which you must eat."

[Orangedog]

The marriage-destroying trend that needs to end is the judicial presumption of mother custody post-divorce. End that, everything else follows.

That is THE key to ending this mess....and that is exactly why it will never change. Perhaps "never" is too strong of a word. Let's just say that the industry (yes, folks, it's a business. Think about it) will go to extroardinary measures to preserve the status quo.

If you all think things are bad now, just wait a few more years. The industry will eventually get so draconian that a lot more men, perhaps as early as 18 years of age, will start getting vasectomies to keep from falling into the same trap that they saw their fathers fall prey to. When these marxists running the system can't use men's own children to as a means of control and extorsion, then they will go after men who just date women that already have kids from another man. I don't mean the paternaty fraud that has become so fasionable in recent years. I mean if you are fool enough to date a women with kids for an extended period, or co-habitate, you will get stuck for child support just like the father did. Don't even try to think that it can't happen.

[Z in Oregon]

You're wrong that things will never change:

Every weight has a counterweight.

Nature of the universe, and societies.

I recognize the size, scope, and power of the patronage network that needs to be overthrown.

And yes, one of the key ideologies feminazis are pushing is the idea that a "father" is any man a woman with kids wants money from---and nothing more.

[AFreeBird]

Those of you who watched those shows are over 50 years old and not really the subject of discussion in the article. ;)

Excuse me, but I AM NOT over 50! You might have seen them first run a lot of us didn't Ever hear of re-runs?

[longtermmemmory]

Legally speaking it has been eliminated. Only on the books. The notion of the "tender years" doctrine where the child goes with mommy may be off the books but it is practiced. The parent who gets the children gets the house. Divorce is a mess.

Modern Women need to realize men never want to raise a child that is not theirs by blood. They may have to accept it but it is never the first choice. The feminist perversion of the family unit must be stopped. They are trying to convince the public that their version of the family is better than father mother and baby. Men are not interchangable daddies.

Intentional single motherhood should be penalized. Perhaps a serious tax on single women who visit spermbanks.

[longtermmemmory]

also end alimony beyond 1 year. The notion of divorce means her life will not go down must be eliminated. Modern women have no intestinal fortitude to build something with a husband. The myth is marry for money the first time, then divorce and marry for love.

Have you noticed how this ENTIRE thread is saying how modern women are not providing an "attraction" to draw men to them. Men know what they want in a woman. (whatever that is individually) Women seem to be under the impression that if the follow the path of the NOWgang men will still find them desireable. Sex may be important but not important enough alone to marry the woman de jour. Perhaps instead of "what women want" it should be "what women forgot."

[HitmanLV]

OK, I'm 34, maybe not young enough but certainly not old. Here's where I stand on the 10 reasons:

1. They can get sex without marriage more easily than in times past

Evidently the guys in this survey don't know any of the women in my life!

2. They can enjoy the benefits of having a wife by cohabiting rather than marrying

Nope. I don't like 'living together' arrangements and would never do it. Also, I wouldn't court a young lady who had been in such an arrangement, or arrangements. Part of my overall policy (see below).

3. They want to avoid divorce and its financial risks

Nope. In an odd way, the best things in my life have started when I was set back to square one. If a woman took me to the cleaners, I'd at least be rid of here, be uncluttered, and I'd have the rest of my life to get it back, and more, as well as replace her with a fiesty young loyal woman. Hubba hubba!!!!

4. They want to wait until they are older to have children

Yea, I like that idea. Ideally I'd be older and more established, and my bride would be a vivacious young woman ready to build and manage a family - I ideally would like 4 children or so, maybe even adopting some.

5. They fear that marriage will require too many changes and compromises

Nah - change is life. I don't sweat that. These guys are just selfish, immature, and self-centered. Lots of men and women are like that and use that line to cover it up. Think about it - it says "I don't want to consider another person's feelings/wishes in my decisionmaking!" Pretty selfish!

6. They are waiting for the perfect soul mate and she hasn’t yet appeared

Nope, I don't like 'soul mate' talk and think its one of the most unromantic and arrogant concepts out there. The idea that there is 'one' person out there predestined to make me happy takes both parties and their free will out of the equasion. I find the idea of genuine romantic admiration - the deliberate choice of one person above all others, as far more romantic. Keeps 'destiny' out of it. Also, I have spoken with enough floozies to know that 'soul mate' talk is a cop-out: they can't make decisions and long for one to be made for them. It allows people of both sexes to stall and not make decisons.

7. They face few social pressures to marry

True! I'm 34, have my own biz, just moved to vegas, and having fun! Many of my friends have been married 7-10 years already, and I tell you, my male friends do look at my lifestyle with some envy, if I say so myself (it's more the Saab than the women, though! Oh well, it's both!)

8. They are reluctant to marry a woman who already has children

Yes! No previously married women, and no women with kids. Sorry. Not interested. I like never-married women, ages 22-27 or so, without much baggage - emotional or otherwise.

9. They want to own a house before they get a wife

Just the opposite - I live in a nice 2br apartment, just the right size for me to work on my business, have a nice life, and not live in a place that's 'too big' for me. I have an idea of the kind of home I want, of course, but I am deliberatly waiting AFTER I get married - make sure the bride will like the place and meets her expectations. I'm an old fashioned Sicilian man - it's my wife's home, I'll just live there! :-)

10. They want to enjoy single life as long as they can

Yes, true. But I do very much want a bride and several children someday - that time is coming soon. But no rush at all!

[anniegetyourgun]

I wish I could believe you about the 'majority'....but alas, even the majority of women are sleazy. So it is with the nature of mankind. On this matter alone, we can use abortion statistics as a great example. Men have it within their complete control to virtually eliminate abortions in this country by being 'noble' in their behaviors toward women. However, most are content to use their girlfriends, take them to be scraped out when pregnant, and bring them back to their apartment to use them some more. Do women participate in this process? Yes, of course. But can they get pregnant outside of marriage without the aid of a man? Not without expense and extraordinary medical treatment.