Lessons Learned--Afghanistan (10th Mountain Division)

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[Future Snake Eater]

Thought you all may find this interesting...

[billorites]

'Excuse me! The army couldn't afford drapes? I'll be up at the crack of dawn here!'

[Myrean]

At what altitude do they train? When they were based in Colorado they trained at 9,000 and above.

[Travis McGee]

"Mountain Walking!"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[5by5]

Great. The 10th Mountain Div can't handle altitude. Maybe they should go back to the mountains...

Camp Hale, Colorado where the 10th was founded is at 9500 ft. Nearby mountains go to 14,000. Fort Drum is what, 600?

Yeesh.

[HiJinx]

Great post, thanks for the information!

[fnord]

bump for later (needed) reading.

btw, can you say where this came from, or vouceh for it's authenticity?

[Future Snake Eater]

can you say where this came from, or vouceh for it's authenticity?

I got it in an email from one of my Guard unit's full-timers. Can I definitely say it's authentic? No, but it does jibe with some of the grapevine info that's been coming from around the Army world.

[Jabba the Nutt]

The 10th Mountain Division is based at Fort Drum in New York. Heelllooo! There aren't high mountains in New York. They should be moved to the Rocky Mountains and based at least at 6,000 feet.

[HiJinx]

Bump-Ping!!!

To a few vets who may appreciate this...

[KellyAdmirer]

I visited Camp Hale recently. It is still very much available. Beautiful valley. Perfect for training the current soft "mountain" troops.

Btw, I went from sea level to altitude for the first time last year and experienced only minor indigestion and occasional shortness of breath. Had no problems climbing the many 12-14k mountains around there.

[SAMWolf]

Thanks for the ping HiJinx!

I never did understand why they moved a Mountain Division to New York. Anyone wanna bet "pork-barrel", which Senators do you think have more pull, New York or Colorado?

[jimtorr]

Fort Carson, CO seems like a good place to train mountain troops. Fort Carson is just a few miles south of Colorado Springs, and right next to Cheyenne Mountain.

Downtown Colorado Springs is just a bit higher than 6000 feet, and it is the lowest spot for miles around. From Ft. Carson, one has all of the Colorado rockies to train in.

[river rat]

It's not only the Army that can't seem to get it right....

The Marine Corps sent us to the Mountain/Winter training center -- MCMWTC, at Pickle Meadow in the Sierra Mountians, just NW of Sonora --- in NOVEMBER.

I believe altitudes ranges from 6,000 to 10,000 feet - and temperatures down to -12F or so.....

Now, then. This was to prepare us for low land jungle, flat rice paddies and chopper rides through the mountains, with temperatures of 90+F with 90% RH in Vietnam..

Go figure..
Semper Fi

[river rat]

A few points in DIRECT CONFLICT with a private "report" you and I viewed earlier this year.....

Specifically the high score given to Goretex and PolyPro clothing.... The earlier report mentioned WX injuries only amongst those wearing Goretex and polypro!

I'm thinking perhaps physical condition, dampness and altitude is a bigger player than the temperature.
Semper Fi

[RightOnline]

Interesting. Bump. Assume you took notes? :)

[Travis McGee]

The HQ of the 10th is not about altitude, it's about congressional clout. They would put them in Alabama, depending on the committee make up.

[redhead]

""Bunch of guys" had Acute Mountain Sickness."

I've had this. Occurred around 10,000 feet. Felt all the symptoms: sweating, faintness, racing heart, nausea, dizziness. This is NOT a fun experience. Water is very essential in preventing this, believe it or not (maybe something to do with blood pressure at high altitudes. I don't know...).

[300winmag]

D: Soldier load was from 75-110 lbs. Many felt they had too much weight to move efficiently in that terrain at that altitude. Rifleman carried between 10-14 30 round mags plus 2 mortar rounds. Saw gunners carried around 1600 rounds and M240 gunners around 1200. Three days of rations and water were packed along with the assortment of cold wx gear, batteries, etc.

A radical redesign and rethinking of clothes, armor, and LBE is needed. Anything held close to the body and immobile is going to be easier to hump than something floppy that zigs when you zag.

Perhaps everything should be designed around the body armor. A cavity on the inside for an IV bag and water bladder. Also space for a kife/survival kit/extra magazine. Stuff you want with you at all times, and can keep warm with body heat.

On the outside, standardized attachment points (something other than alice clips) that take modular pouches, racks, radios, etc. Perhaps the only thing on straps might be some sort of ruck that can be dropped for heavy action. Everything else is the kind of stuff you want to stay on you in a firefight.

I don't have all the answers (or even all the questions), but it seems like we could be close to some sort of revolution in combat gear.