Lessons Learned--Afghanistan (10th Mountain Division)

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[Future Snake Eater]

I don't know any real details, but one of my ROTC buddies' dad is a colonel who's involved in R&D of different kinds of military gear. One of the things he was working on was some sort of 'exoskeleton' frame design where a soldier could wear about 300 lbs before he would start to feel the weight. I won't pretend I understand how it works, but that would be pretty slick if they could pull off a trick like that...

Oh and you're absolutely right--death to ALICE clips! :-)

[WIladyconservative]

Can someone explain to me what he means when he says *cotton kills*??

[Raven6]

"...MCMWTC..." - river rat

Reminds me of a story told by an instructor I had once... He was ordered to Alaska (can't remember the location - too long ago) for training, just before just before he deployed to I Corp, RVN.

Stay armed,
Raven6

[river rat]

Cotton is NOT a recommended material to wear in cold/damp environment... Cold can lead to hypothermia and that can lead to death....Cotton Kills.

Layered materials that retain body warmth and at the same time, wick away body moisture is mandatory when under heavy exertion in cold weather.

Some of the currently "in favor" material, is polypropylene waffled underwear in combination with outer garments of GoreTex.

Semper Fi

[river rat]

It's amazing that anyone survived the war, led as we were by some of the dumbest SOBs on the planet...

I never trusted or respected anyone above Battalion.
(Of course, I never met any - or saw any in the field)
Including our dumb ass President at the time, and his dumb ass Sec. of Defense.....

Stay vigilant, Freedom is not Free
Semper Fi

[PatrioticAmerican]

interesting.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

Thanks for the post. The guys I talked to say they were out of shape, ill equipped, and had far too much to carry. They almost had their rears handed to them and we are lucky they didn't end up in real trouble.

It seems they only train once a year away from NY and that's not at any great altitude.

[Squantos]

Gore-Tex, Polar Fleece and poly pro expedition weight shells are primo stuff as I experienced it. That and Danner Arcadias with the heavy insulation, laces replaced with 550 paracord, good thorlo poly wool socks and a wicker Poly pro sock kept me warm an dry in both cold wet and cold dry environments. Best all round gear one can carry in their existance load IMO. I did add a hooded down stuff parka and set of bibs to line my GTX shell in real extream conditions like high mountain crash sites ect ect.....

My sleeping bag was a personal custom down bag made by feathered friends inc in washington state with a GTX bivy bag cover until I was "issued" a "wiggy" bag that is a system of an outter and inner bag that properly configured is good to -60F. I have used it at -34F and was quite toasty.

Mr Wigatho (sp?) aka Wiggy has the best sleeping bag ever made and if you spend your own hard earned cash on anything by that bag from Wiggy !! They have an NSN assigned to the item also so brotherinlaw your quartermaster ta get ya one yesterday.

One must use caution with the fleece materials in Desert environments as it speed dehydration IMO and experience.....it will suck the water right off your skin. You'll be dry and comfy but will drink three times the water to stay hydrated.

As to the 300 pound loads........run don't walk away from anyone trying to make you hump that load over uneven ground. Titanium ankles won't even hold up under that abuse over time. remember it's not the mileage that gets ya it's the sudden stops :o)

Our version of high altitude training was to run our 6 mile morning shuffle in a MCU2P or M17 mask..........in Albuquerque :o).......honest !! Albeit not an everyday thing we did such about two outta our five PT days......... that'll put hair on yer ass fer sure FSE !!

Stay Safe and consider every ounce of gear you pack.

[Travis McGee]

Just don't forget the waffle iron, boom box and a few books.

[Psycho Francis]

The 10th hasn't been a 'mountain' division since just after WWII, and didn't carry the Mountain tab from then until deactivation in 1958 at Ft. Benning.

The 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry) was reactivated in 1985 at Fort Drum.

'Mountain' in name only.

[Squantos]

LOL !......It was a crepe pan, a harmonica and I'd REALLY LIKE TO READ A GOOD BOOK !!!!................:o)

What I have so far is awesome !!

Stay Safe !!

[SLB]

You would cringe at some of the stuff we see coming out of such places as Nattick Labs in MA. some is pretty good, but some such as the ground warrior packages really stink. The number of batteries used to power the equipment is phenominal (spelling?). They need the exo-skeleton just to carry the batteries. We go hanging a couple of hundred pounds of un-needed gear on Joe and then wonder why he can't perform at high altitude.

I was raised in Wyoming and so understand high altitude problems. When we went elk hunting around Jackson Hole the altitude did a number on us and we lived at over 5,000 feet and hunted deer and antelope at around 7500 feet on the Laramie Plains. I worked for a seismograph company right out of High School, with some work in the Red Desert. The altitude there averages about 6000 feet. Try working on a drill rig for 10 to 12 hours a day at that altitude. I am sure my lung capacity increased two fold in just a coupel of months.

The Wyoming Cowboy football team just loves playing someone on the West Coast. They might not have the playing skills, but altitude sometimes makes up for that.

[AAABEST]

There isn't much that scares me anymore, except cold. Cold is my deadly enemy, which is one reason why I live in Florida now.

Paracord is good stuff to have around, but I find that I can't keep it tied when I use it for lacing.

[WIladyconservative]

Thank you for that information on cotton - I didn't know that it caused such problems at low temps!

[Future Snake Eater]

The altitude there averages about 6000 feet. Try working on a drill rig for 10 to 12 hours a day at that altitude. I am sure my lung capacity increased two fold in just a coupel of months.

Wow, maybe I should get a job around there. I really need to open up my lung capacity (I can't run to save my life...push-ups, sit-ups, no problem, but running...fuggedaboudit)

[MP5]

Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Center- The center was established in 1951 as a Cold Weather Battalion with a mission of providing cold weather training for replacement personnel bound for Korea. After the Korea conflict the name was changed to the Marine Corps Cold Weather Training Center. As a result of it’s expanded role it was renamed the Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Training Center in 1963. MCMWTC operated on a full time basis until 1967 when it was placed in a caretaker status as a result of the Vietnam War. The training center was reactivated to a full-time command on May 19th 1976.

The center is cited at 6,762 feet, with elevations in the training areas ranging to just under 12,000 feet. During the winter season (October - April) snow accumulation can rear 6 to 8 feet. Further, sever storms can deposit as much as four feet in a 12 hour period. Annual temperatures range from -20 degrees to +90 degrees Fahrenheit.

[katana]

Cotton has nearly zero insulating peoperties and wicks moisture from the body. Good for a hot humid environment but worse than useless in the cold. Hypothermia can kill you.

[katana]

Misspelling: "properties". Used to backpack a lot and wool or synthetics are much preferred over cotton in the cold.

[flyer182]

Probably because you are going to Okie and your mission there is Korea. I trust you have heard of Chosin.

[Basil Duke]

When discussing sleeping systems, the article mentions that none of the men wore cotton tshirts to bed because "cotton kills." Anybody know what that means?