Black Confederate-flag supporter irks some on march to Texas

AP ^ | October 27, 2002

[stainlessbanner]

CANTON, Ga.(AP) - H.K. Edgerton is a proud black Southerner who has no grievance with the Confederate battle flag.

And he's willing to march 1,500 miles across the South from Asheville, N.C., to Austin, Texas, decked out in a gray Civil War uniform and waving the Rebel flag to bring attention to the flag issue.

Edgerton sees the banner as a symbol of Southern heritage shared by blacks and whites rather than one of racial division.

"We were family," said Edgerton. He was in the Canton, north of Atlanta, on Saturday to visit Cherokee High School before marching west to Montgomery, Ala., on Monday.

In September, school administrators banned its overwhelming white student body from wearing to class anything depicting the Confederate battle flag.

Edgerton's "March Across Dixie" began earlier this month in Asheville, where he was a former president of the local NAACP. He's also a board member of the Southern Legal Resource Center, a nonprofit group that provides legal support to people fighting efforts to remove symbols of the Confederacy.

Edgerton blamed Northern reconstructionists for pitting blacks and whites against each other after the Civil War.

"This is Dr. Martin Luther King's dream, that we would all sit down at the same table together," he said.

But some Canton residents disagreed with Edgerton.

"He's an outsider from another state who doesn't know what he's talking about," said Krystal Thomas, a 1999 graduate of Cherokee High, where administrators in September banned students from wearing anything depicting the emblem.

"It's not the flag itself but the attitudes of the people who were wearing them," Thomas said.

Michael Julian Bond, duty director of the Atlanta NAACP, had stronger words about Edgerton's view.

"Nobody can argue with the fact we want racial harmony," Bond said in Sunday's editions of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, "but for anyone to think that the Confederate flag is a unifying symbol must be utterly mad."

Edgerton hopes to reach Austin by mid-February. He'll ask officials there to put back plaques honoring Texas Confederate veterans . The plaques were removed from the lobby of the Texas Supreme Court in 2000.

[stainlessbanner]

HK Bump!

[mhking]

Black conservative ping

If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)

Extra warning: this is a high-volume ping list.

[goldstategop]

Michael Julian Bond and his ilk are the ones who want to keep the race card alive.

[Texas_Jarhead]

"Nobody can argue with the fact we want racial harmony," Bond said in Sunday's editions of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution"

You ain't foolin nno one you race hustler

[LiberalBuster]

Uh oh. Damage control. It looks like a slave has escaped from the Democrat/liberal Thought Control plantation.

[Non-Sequitur]

Edgerton blamed Northern reconstructionists for pitting blacks and whites against each other after the Civil War.

Sure it was. What about before and during the war? From Article II, Section VII of the 1861 Georgia Constitution.

1. The importation or introduction of negroes from any foreign country, other than the slave-holding States or Territories of the United States of America, is forever prohibited.
2. The General Assembly may prohibit the introduction of negroes from any State; but they shall have no power to prevent immigrants from bringing their slaves with them.
3. The General Assembly shall have no power to pass laws for the emancipation of slaves.

[dixierat22]

Just a note of interest.

I have a book of photgraphs from the War of Northern Aggression. In this is a photo of Confederate prisoners from the 5th Virginia Cavalry. In the first row are at least 3 and possibly 5 blacks. I thought that was very interesting...

[Fiddlstix]

Bump

[Non-Sequitur]

Mr. Edgerton will be entering Alabama soon. I wonder if he was aware that the Alabama Constitution adopted in 1861 contained the following clause, "No slave in this State shall be emancipated by any act done to take effect in this State, or any other country?" Or that in the 1840's the Alabama legislature seriously considered legislation that would have deported all free blacks to Africa and charged the county they were living in for the passage? But, like he said, it's all Reconstruction's fault, isn't it?

[Non-Sequitur]

I have a book of photgraphs from the War of Northern Aggression. In this is a photo of Confederate prisoners from the 5th Virginia Cavalry. In the first row are at least 3 and possibly 5 blacks. I thought that was very interesting...

That would be the same Virginia whose Constitution adopted in 1861 contained the clause, "Slaves hereafter emancipated shall forfeit their freedom by remaining in the Commonwealth more than twelve months after they become actually free, and it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to prescribe proper regulations for reducing such negroes to slavery." Now do you suppose that the men in the picture where slaves or just serving time in the army before being reduced to slavery again?

[TomServo]

"He's an outsider from another state who doesn't know what he's talking about," said Krystal Thomas, a 1999 graduate of Cherokee High..

Go change yer diaper, kid.

[Levy78]

Julian Bond wants racial harmony... HA! He has to keep races divided or he doesn't get paid.

[Graewoulf]

Can you post this picture? There is nothing as refreshing as REALITY!

[shuckmaster]

Well, well, well, doesn't the title of this thread just tell it all?

[Illbay]

In case you all haven't figured it out by now, ol' "Stainless" here is one of those "Johnnie One-Note" types of FReeper that we get on occasion. The ONLY thing he ever posts, the only posts he ever replies to, are about the Rise of the New Confederacy(tm).

Yeah, he and a few others like him have their heads firmly stuck an entire century and a half ago, and why they think the rest of us care so deeply as they do about their "History Channel Live" fantasies is really, truly beyond me.

[Illbay]

In the first row are at least 3 and possibly 5 blacks.

Those were the GUARDS, meathead!

[stainlessbanner]

Search on my posts, jackson - I post on lots of issues. I just posted an article on BBQ. I mostly try to avoid antagonists such as yourself.

I noticed you didn't have any comment on the article, you chose to attack the poster. Some things never change.

[RebelTex]

Bravo, H.K. Edgerton, for taking a brave stance deserving of respect and honor.

As for the war -
"It's the economy, stupid."
The North was jealous of Southern prosperity and tried enacting Byzantine legislation, which would hogtie the South & promote the interests of the North. When that failed, they devised other means, including armed aggression, to achieve their ends. Finally, when the Union was losing both popular support and the war, the Northern stratagists whipped up the populace over slavery, which was previously a non-issue, and thus forever branded the South as racist in it's entirety.

A number of hisorical studies have shown that slavery in the South was steadily declining & would have died out naturally in another 20 or 30 years. The North however, couldn't afford to wait because of their declining economy.

Have faith - the times, they are a changin'.

FReegards,
RebelTex

[sweetliberty]

"Damage control. It looks like a slave has escaped from the Democrat/liberal Thought Control plantation."

Bingo!

[sam_paine]

Something funny happened yesterday on my way to see the Longhorns play Iowa St. I pointed out that we still fly the "Six Flags of Texas" at the south end of the field, including the confederate flag. Some nimrod argued, "that's not the confederate flag, idiot, the confederate flag has an X on it...." When I explained the difference between the ratified banner and the "Naval Battle Flag" which is rectangular, and that the actual "Confederate Battle Flag" is square, etc, and the stainless, bonnie blue, blah blah blah. The Iowa folks around me thought I was from Mars!!! People are just that ignorant. And the reality is that "the confederate flag" has lost almost completely lost all meaning over time.

The only reason the "battle flag" is a symbol of division or hate in the 21st century is because people like Jesse, Inc. play it to their everlasting advantage. Ironically, the vast majority of people that are "rallied" by the Confederate Flags are the NAACP types, not the angry-white-suthners.

 

[Dudoight]

Where can I send this man support/funds for his grand effort? I am serious!

[RebelTex]

Thanks for the additional pics - I've added them to my collection. Of course you're right about the flags, but most people can only id the battle flag & only as rectangular. The one I use is more recognized.

It's nice to know that some people do know the difference. If you search on CSA or Confederacy, you can find some great sites with lots of historical info.

Here's one that I recommend: Flags of the Confederacy

FReegards,
RebelTex

[TLBSHOW]

bttt

[lone_conservative_law_student]

Hook 'em!

[thatdewd]

Yoo muhst be wunna thahm northurn ageetaters ah heerd tell uv...

[Spirited]

the same Virginia whose Constitution adopted in 1861 contained the clause, "Slaves hereafter emancipated shall...."

You may want to look up the italicized word "hereafter" and compare it to "heretofore". One sees that if there is to be a change hereafter a different situation obtained heretofore.

Take comfort, however, in the fact that truth in history of the South was lacking for me too because winners of wars get to rewrite the history taught in most schools. So untruth becomes true for those taught who will teach others in turn. The losers are demonized and vicious, romantic or stupid suppositions replace facts.

Of course I was born in Connecticut and schooled in NJ through the undergraduate experience. What should I have known about Virginia? The majority of our (Northern) blacks were marginalized and in ghettos.

A Virginian today, I can introduce you to descendants of black Confederate soldiers who are proud of the service of their grandfathers, uncles, (whatever). These were free black men of property and business who owned slaves most of whom had never been slaves themselves. (In fact some of their ancestors had also fought in the Revolution.)

These descendants also comprehend and honor the term "free black". To them it is not an epithet, neither would they stoop to refer to themselves as African-American.

I presume that you may not know that only a super miniscule percentage of white Confederate soldiers owned slaves. Please let's not allow the Jesse propaganda wipe away all truth and convince us that we should all presume that empty lies are that truth.

[Pelham]

Whereas you are a johnnie one note who searches out "Confederate" threads to spew your hatred for the South. But then that's not an unusual trait in someone with no connection to America's past.

[fire_eye]

I arbitrarily assign this outrageous black man a howlfulness rating of 186 Reagans.

If he got on national TV and caused a news anchor to howl, the rating goes up to 243 Reagans.

If it was Dan Blather, 436 Reagans.

[x]

I presume that you may not know that only a super miniscule percentage of white Confederate soldiers owned slaves.

But that's not really a good standard for assessment. How many soldiers in our recent wars had owned any stocks or real property? Most of them were too young. But, if I remember correctly, close to one in two families in South Carolina or Mississippi owned slaves. There was a smaller percentage of slaveowning families in other states and it does depend on how one defines "family," but your standard doesn't fit the situation.

[Non-Sequitur]

I'm just interested in the truth, even if he isn't. His claim that tension between black and white down south is a result of Reconstruction is false. It predated the war, occured during the war, and in the immediate post war prior to Reconstruction ever starting. Y'all came by your hate naturally, you didn't need any lessons from the Yankees.

[Non-Sequitur]

You must be the product of the southern public school systems.

[Vigilantcitizen]

"Y'all came by your hate naturally, you didn't need any lessons from the Yankees."

The forced removal and ethnic cleansing of the American Indian by the United States government,which predated the civil war, was a pretty good lesson in hate.

Something about a pot and a kettle?

[Non-Sequitur]

Far be it for me to try and lecture you on the history of the commonwealth, but let me explain my position a bit better.

You may want to look up the italicized word "hereafter" and compare it to "heretofore"

The actual wording of that clause dates from a piece of legislation called the Virginia Manumission Law of 1806. Since Virginia rewrote her Constitution in Virginia rewrote her Constitution twice prior to 1861, in 1830 and 1851. The ratification in 1861 was a hasty convention called to remove all reference of the United States from the document and substitute confederate states. The part I quoted was most likely added in either 1830 or 1851.

These were free black men of property and business who owned slaves most of whom had never been slaves themselves.

There have been several studies on the subject and the researchers have found that in many, if not most, of the cases of black slave ownership the purchaser was buying a member of his or her immediate family as a way to get around the manumission clauses of the Virginia constitution.

A Virginian today, I can introduce you to descendants of black Confederate soldiers who are proud of the service of their grandfathers, uncles, (whatever).

I have no doubt that blacks served the confederate army, some willingly and many unwillingly. But they were in a supporting role, teamsters, servants, cooks, what have you. Blacks were legally barred from combat roles throughout almost all the war. One just has to look at the way Northern black combat soldiers were treated at the hands of the south to realize that there were no large numbers of southern black combat soldiers.

[nanny]

[But that's not really a good standard for assessment. How many soldiers in our recent wars had owned any stocks or real property?]

Are you trying to say the wars we have fought were for the stock market or real property? Do you think that just owning anything in America is the only way you can have 'stock in America?'

I really don't understand your post. Are you saying if you don't own stock or real property, you have no reason to support America?

I would have a hard time saying 1 of every 2 'families' in Miss owned slaves. If the statement is true, the definition of 'family' is probably very different than present day.

[nanny]

[You must be the product of the southern public school systems.]

Only if he attended school 50 years ago. In the South now, the children are taught white men were the scourge of the earth - only blacks, mexicans, and women are any good or made any contribution to the building of this country.

Of course they are also taught that America is just a big bully and grew by the systematic murder, rape, and pillage of the Western Hemisphere.

[foreverfree]

bump

[Non-Sequitur]

The forced removal and ethnic cleansing of the American Indian by the United States government,which predated the civil war, was a pretty good lesson in hate.

Ah yes, let's look one of the most notorious examples, the forced migration of the Cherokee in the 1830's. Forced from Georgia and North Carolina by legislation enacted by Andrew Jackson, promoted by the government of those two states. When the actual eviction came in 1835 most of the troops were made up of Georgia militia. So don't try and blame our treatment of the Indian on the North. When it comes to mistreating them both Northern and Southern hands are equally dirty.

[FLAUSA]

I met this gentleman a couple of months ago. He was staying at friend of mine's home. By the way the friend was white. The two gentlemen discussed their confederate ancestors and various aspects of the war between the states and the resulting reconstruction after the war. He also indicated that he had met a large numbr of black people who had ancestors who fought for the confederacy, but were ashamed to admit it. Since I was born and raised in PA, I found the conversation very interesting. I did not know that blacks served in the confederacy. Since that time I've looked at some old census records and it would appear that about 10% of the blacks living in America in 1860 were free blacks. Thinking that perhaps all of these free blacks probably lived in the north I looked up the census of Baton Rouge, LA. There were a large number of free blacks in Baton Rouge in 1860 and about 10% of them held slaves. Some of those blacks who held slaves had a very large number of slaves, too large to be only family members. (I didn't know that either) United States census information is available online. Look it up. Don't take anyone's word for what America looked like in 1860.

"Every once in a while it's good to look back so you can understand where you're going."

[RikaStrom]

"Nobody can argue with the fact we want racial harmony," Bond said in Sunday's editions of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Actually Bond, we can argue that fact. It seems to me that black leaders want anything but harmony.

[BigWaveBetty]

"It's not the flag itself but the attitudes of the people who were wearing them," Thomas said.

Young Thomas will have a glowing career with the 'Thought Police'.

[Vigilantcitizen]

"When the actual eviction came in 1835 most of the troops were made up of Georgia militia."

My source says...

"By 1835 the Cherokee were divided and despondent. Most supported Principal Chief John Ross, who fought the encroachment of whites starting with the 1832 land lottery. However, a minority(less than 500 out of 17,000 Cherokee in North Georgia) followed Major Ridge, his son John, and Elias Boudinot, who advocated removal. The Treaty of New Echota, signed by Ridge and members of the Treaty Party in 1835, gave Jackson the legal document he needed to remove the First Americans. Ratification of the treaty by the United States Senate sealed the fate of the Cherokee. Among the few who spoke out against the ratification were Daniel Webster and Henry Clay, but it passed by a single vote. In 1838 the United States began the removal to Oklahoma, fulfilling a promise the government made to Georgia in 1802. Ordered to move on the Cherokee, General John Wool resigned his command in protest, delaying the action. His replacement, General Winfield Scott, arrived at New Echota on May 17, 1838 with 7000 men. Early that summer General Scott and the United States Army began the invasion of the Cherokee Nation.

From here.

I'm not saying that the South wasn't a participant in the removal of the American Indians. I'm just trying to point out that we as a Nation are not without sin.

[makoman]

I am a good ole rebel

yes, that is just what I am

and for this land of freedom

I do not give a damn

I'm glad we fought against them

I only wish we'd won

and I do not ask no pardon

for anything I've done!

[Drawsing]

Observations of reality with no answers:
There were black confederate soldiers.
There were free blacks in the south.
There were blacks who owned their own slaves.
There were kindly white and black slaveowners who took good care of their slaves.
There were mean white and black slaveowners who whipped and mistreated their slaves.
There are ignorant whites who display the confederate battle flag as a racist symbol of hate. This cannot be denied, I have seen it and listened to the hate from their mouths.
Their are other whites who display it as a symbol of Southern pride and heritage.

[rebelyell]

Deo vindice, my brother!

[Vigilantcitizen]

hmmm..

snip.. "In May of 1832 Sac and Fox Indians under the leadership of Black Hawk left the Iowa territory and returned to their homes across the Mississippi River in northern Illinois. These Native Americans had lost their Illinois lands in a disputed treaty signed in St. Louis in 1805. Their return to northern Illinois sparked widespread panic among white settlers, and Illinois Governor Reynolds quickly called up the militia, which included a young Abraham Lincoln.

Both the militia and regular army troops proved unable to locate the elusive Indians at first, but by July they had begun to pursue Black Hawk's band across northern Illinois and southwestern Wisconsin, engaging them in a major conflict at Wisconsin Heights before finally routing the Indians at Bad Axe on the Mississippi River.

This project presents searchable primary source materials describing the Black Hawk War of 1832. It includes the Autobiography of Black Hawk, American soldiers' first-hand accounts and reminiscences, maps and other images, and treaties and other government documents. It is a part of the larger Abraham Lincoln Historical Digitization Project and its attempts to use the events of Lincoln's life as a lens through which to interpret and understand broader themes of antebellum American history.

The Illinois Humanities Council has supported this project with a generous grant.

© 2000 Abraham Lincoln Historical Digitization Project

From here.

[jsraggmann]

Please tell us how many slaves were brought to the United States aboard Confederate ships.

[Non-Sequitur]

I'm not sure where you're going with this. I'm aware of the census data. There were almost half a million free blacks in the United States in 1860, 476,748 to be exact, and that made up slightly less than 10% of all blacks in the United States. Of those 125,460 lived in the confederate states. I have never doubted that blacks served with the confederate army. After all, they were southerners too, and many no doubt thought that service with the confederate army might improve their position in a post confederate south. But there service was restricted to support positions by confederate law, and any black combat soldiers in the confederate army were extremely isolated incidents. If one examines the pre-war laws and the post-war treatment of blacks in the southern states, I find it impossible to believe that southerners would treat them that way if they were trusted allies and brothers-in-arms.

[Non-Sequitur]

We can't be sure that on all the blockade runners utilized by the south during the war that not a single slave was brought in. But that would have been in violation of the confederate constitution which protected slave imports from only the slave owning states of the United States.

[Non-Sequitur]

Scott used state militias federalized for the purpose.