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FBI's Theory On Anthrax Is Doubted (Evidence points to a state sponsor)
Washington Post ^ | October 28th, 2002 | Guy Gugliotta and Gary Matsumoto

Posted on 10/28/2002 7:09:54 PM PST by Sabertooth

A significant number of scientists and biological warfare experts are expressing skepticism about the FBI's view that a single disgruntled American scientist prepared the spores and mailed the deadly anthrax letters that killed five people last year. These sources say that making a weaponized aerosol of such sophistication and virulence would require scientific knowledge, technical competence, access to expensive equipment and safety know-how that are probably beyond the capabilities of a lone individual.

< snip >

"In my opinion, there are maybe four or five people in the whole country who might be able to make this stuff, and I'm one of them," said Richard O. Spertzel, chief biological inspector for the U.N. Special Commission from 1994 to 1998. "And even with a good lab and staff to help run it, it might take me a year to come up with a product as good."

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Anthrax Scare; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anthrax; inspections; inspector; iraq; spetzel; un; wmd
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Read the article, lots of details. Most likely scenario...

State Sponsor = Iraq.


Surprise.

1 posted on 10/28/2002 7:09:54 PM PST by Sabertooth
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To: CheneyChick; vikingchick; Victoria Delsoul; WIMom; one_particular_harbour; kmiller1k; Snow Bunny; ..
((((((growl)))))



2 posted on 10/28/2002 7:10:41 PM PST by Sabertooth
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To: Sabertooth
It must be Ethipia then. Surely they have the skills. It can't be Iraq. Iraq told us they wouldn't do that.
3 posted on 10/28/2002 7:13:00 PM PST by Bogey78O
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To: Sabertooth
WP wants me to sign up.No.

A few more pertinant exerpts or para-phrasing would be appreciated.

4 posted on 10/28/2002 7:13:53 PM PST by sarasmom
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To: Sabertooth
"Yeah, but it's so much easier to find a scapegoat, blame it all on him and then shoot him on a raid or sumthin'. We really liked it when Reno was around..."
5 posted on 10/28/2002 7:14:03 PM PST by guitfiddlist
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To: sarasmom
WP wants me to sign up.No.

A few more pertinant exerpts or para-phrasing would be appreciated.

Way too much data. Try this work-around...

Google News Search

Then click on "FBI's Theory On Anthrax Is Doubted."

You should see the story without signing up.




6 posted on 10/28/2002 7:18:41 PM PST by Sabertooth
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To: Sabertooth; Nogbad; The Great Satan; Dark Wing
I can't wait for the FBI to go after Spertzel the way they went after Hatfill.

"In my opinion, there are maybe four or five people in the whole country who might be able to make this stuff, and I'm one of them," said Richard O. Spertzel, chief biological inspector for the U.N. Special Commission from 1994 to 1998."

7 posted on 10/28/2002 7:24:19 PM PST by Thud
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To: Sidebar Moderator
Why was this taken out of Breaking News?

President Bush is in the midst of making the case for war with Iraq, and the Iraqi-anthrax connection is the shoe everyone's been waiting to drop. This is the most detailed and comprehensive examination I've read. See for yourself by following the links at #6... you don't even have to sign up.

There is not a single more important story in any of your sidebars right now. Can you please explain your news judgement?



8 posted on 10/28/2002 7:24:34 PM PST by Sabertooth
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To: Sabertooth
Well, someone would have to check out the science, but it sounds knowledgeable to me.

Now this is making me paranoid. It seems as if the intelligence services REALLY, REALLY don't want to confirm an Iraqi connection. We've seen how George Tenet has bent the evidence repeatedly, especially about the Prague meeting, in order to shoot down an Iraqi connection. And we've seen how the FBI continues to bend over backward to deny any foreign terrorist connection to the anthrax mailings.

I have been assuming a combination of incompetence and clintonoid malice. But what if Saddam is BLACKMAILING the higher-ups in the CIA and the FBI? How would he do that? Well, suppose what we have heard about the OKC bombing is true? Then the FBI would be up to its neck in the cover-up of Iraqi participation, and Saddam could prove it. And there is some evidence that the CIA was involved in OKC too, because it is known that a high-level German agent was at Elohim City at the time and is thought to have been involved.

Of course clinton could be blackmailing the agencies too. It's one of his favorite techniques for keeping control over his subordinates, and no doubt he and hillary took their blackmail files with them when they left the White House.
9 posted on 10/28/2002 7:27:05 PM PST by Cicero
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To: Sabertooth
Thank you.
10 posted on 10/28/2002 7:35:59 PM PST by sarasmom
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To: Sabertooth
Why was this taken out of Breaking News?

This article has been posted twice before.

U.S. anthrax experts say FBI's wrong about letters Sophisticated team, not loner, indicated

Experts doubt anthrax attack was work of lone, rogue scientist

11 posted on 10/28/2002 7:39:18 PM PST by Sidebar Moderator
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To: Sabertooth
State Sponsor = Iraq.

I'm shocked. (/sarcasm)

Thanks Sabertooth

12 posted on 10/28/2002 7:43:35 PM PST by NeoCaveman
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To: Sabertooth
Why does it seem that the FBI deliberately looks at all other possibilities besides terorists and terrorist sponsoring States? The INS deliberately lets in terrorists and the State Dept. deliberately tries to undermine the Bush agenda. Is it a plot by government employees? And if so, what do they gain?
13 posted on 10/28/2002 7:47:21 PM PST by tinamina
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To: Sabertooth
Wasn't the strain of Anthrax from a US military strain?

Doesn't matter.

Just add it to the Top 10 Reasons (Excuses) why Iraq has to be invaded.
14 posted on 10/28/2002 8:07:11 PM PST by bobi
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To: bobi
When your neighbor raises rabid dogs to drop them in your yard while your kids are out playing, once you take down the dogs, you without delay also take down that neighbor.

No excuses. It is what has to be done.

15 posted on 10/28/2002 8:12:48 PM PST by bvw
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To: bobi
Doesn't matter if the mama bitch was a dog you sold him.
16 posted on 10/28/2002 8:13:38 PM PST by bvw
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To: Sabertooth
Thanks for the heads up!
17 posted on 10/28/2002 8:18:26 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Sabertooth
That worked.

You know, I keep going back to Bush's speech at the U.N. He hung on the word "anthrax" while he was discussing Iraq. I don't think he buys the "lone-white-nut" theory either.
18 posted on 10/28/2002 8:20:38 PM PST by Samwise
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To: tinamina
Why does it seem that the FBI deliberately looks at all other possibilities besides terorists and terrorist sponsoring States?

It's easier that way -- especially when you have a payroll full of profilers eager to target their favorite "angry while male lone nut" (who sometimes drives a white van).

19 posted on 10/28/2002 8:31:49 PM PST by browardchad
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To: Sabertooth
Scientists suggested the loner theory appeared flawed even in the opening days of the investigation. The profile was issued three weeks after U.S. Army scientists examined the Daschle spores and found them to be 1.5 to 3 microns in size and processed to a grade of 1 trillion spores per gram - 50 times finer than anything produced by the now-defunct U.S. bioweapons program and 10 times finer than the finest known grade of Soviet anthrax. A micron is a millionth of a meter.

Obviously the work of an angry white man in an angry white van.

The FBI that covers up the Middle Eastern connection to OKC--

The FBI that denied eighty eye witnesses to a missile hitting TWA Flight 800--

The FBI that gave Craig Livingstone a thousand files on Clinton's enemies--

The FBI that couldn't get Ted Kaczynski for seventeen years until his brother ratted him out--

The FBI that ruined Richard Jewel's life and still hasn't caught the Olympic Park Bomber--

The FBI that is now ruining Hatfill's life--but can't connect a single dot--

The FBI that persecuted O'Neil until he died in the WTC attack rather than heed his warning--

This haven for Robert Hanssen and general all-around joke is now telling us a bathtub meth lab produced this--

This most sophisticated of any known antrax weapon in the world--

We need a new FBI--

Stick a fork in this one--it is smoking a hookah with Allah.

20 posted on 10/28/2002 8:32:53 PM PST by PhilDragoo
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To: tinamina
I think it's bureaucratic physics: a bureaucracy at rest tends to stay at rest. Pasty loner = pawn off the problem on someone else (local law enforcement, etc.) Attack by foreign state = war = everyone has to burn the midnight oil for months or years.
21 posted on 10/28/2002 8:40:08 PM PST by ellery
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To: Sidebar Moderator
OK, thanks. Sorry for popping off, but it's frustrating when threads just get moved for no known reason.

It's also a drag that the news sources change their headlines so often... Makes doing a search rather futile.



22 posted on 10/28/2002 8:41:34 PM PST by Sabertooth
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To: Sidebar Moderator; Sabertooth
"Why was this taken out of Breaking News?"

"This article has been posted twice before."

They are NOT the same article.

The original Washington Post article, linked here, has far more -- and vitally important -- information in it. Curiously, the Commercial Appeal and Chronicle articles are excerpts that abridge the most significant information.

The Post article deserves very prominent handling. Every FReeper should read it. Especially those who doubt a state sponsor for the anthrax...

23 posted on 10/28/2002 8:44:15 PM PST by okie01
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To: Sidebar Moderator; Sabertooth
To demonstrate the important differences, the following paragraphs are in the original Post article, but are missing from the and Chronicle excerpts.

Bush administration officials have acknowledged that the anthrax attacks were an important motivator in the U.S. decision to confront Iraq, and several senior administration officials say today that they still strongly suspect a foreign source -- perhaps Iraq -- even though no one has publicly said so.

That Iraq had the wherewithal to make the anthrax letters does not mean it is the guilty party. Still, the FBI's early dismissal of the possibility may have prematurely closed a legitimate line of inquiry.

"Iraq almost certainly had their anthrax spores in a powdered form," Spertzel said. "They had used silica gel to aid in dispersibility of [wheat] smut spores, and also indicated they were looking at it as a carrier for aflatoxin," a carcinogen.

snip

Several sources agreed that the most likely way to build the coated spores would be to use the fine glass particles, known generically as "fumed silica" or "solid smoke," and mix them with the spores in a spray dryer. "I know of no other technique that might give you that finished product," Spertzel said.

snip

"This concept of using something that would serve as a dessicant and a carrier at the same time is new," said Harvard University chemical engineer David Edwards. "It's a diabolically brilliant idea."

Fumed silica has myriad uses, mostly as a thickening agent in products including ceramics, house paint, toothpaste and cosmetics. It is not widely known as an aerosol additive.

"If you're going to put it into the lung, there has to be a mechanism to clear it, otherwise you just fill up somebody's lung with silica after repeated dosings," said Dalby, of the Aerosol Lab. The anthrax mailer, he noted, obviously wasn't worried about giving his victims silicosis.

Some fumed silicas are extremely difficult to make, but at least two -- Aerosil and Cab-O-Sil -- are readily available and sold commercially in bulk. Either product, in theory, could be used to coat anthrax spores. Aerosil is based in Germany and Cab-O-Sil, in Boston. Both firms have offices around the world.

Ken Alibek, a former deputy director of the Soviet bioweapons program now running an Alexandria biotechnology firm, said the Soviets used Aerosil in agent powders, and a classified Defense Department memo in 1991 said Iraq had "imported approximately 100 MT [metric tons] of Aerosil during the last 8-9 years." Spertzel said the United Nations reported in the 1990s that Iraq had 10 metric tons of Cab-O-Sil, probably destined for its chemical weapons program.

Beggin' your pardon, but this is absolutely critical information. The article deserves all the prominence it can get.

24 posted on 10/28/2002 8:56:01 PM PST by okie01
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To: 11B3; abwehr; Alamo-Girl; angkor; aristeides; Betty Jo; Black Jade; boston_liberty; cake_crumb; ...
Pinging everyone again for the full Washington Post story.
The most important details were omitted from the previous postings.

Looks as if the WP finally is getting onto the story.

Only about a year too late!

25 posted on 10/28/2002 9:07:06 PM PST by Nogbad
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To: Nogbad
It fits rather well with what Freepers have been saying from the beginning. Many of us were of the opinion that it would be shuffled around until the US was ready to a) withstand a large WMD attack, and b) take Saddam out.

Thanks for the heads up!

26 posted on 10/28/2002 9:18:54 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Sabertooth
I have read the comments in this thread, many quite logical. I just cannot understand why the gov't has taken the position that is has.

And, FWIW, I think that the anthrax attacks are Bio-Attack Round Two from Iraq. I think that Round One was the West Nile attack; there has been low level scuttlebutt amongst health care workers for a couple years that this was an intentional bio-attack.

What is it gonna take for people to "connect the dots" as the media talking heads like to say?

27 posted on 10/28/2002 9:35:35 PM PST by Another Galt
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To: Sabertooth
. . . 50 times finer than anything produced by the now-defunct U.S. bioweapons program and 10 times finer than the finest known grade of Soviet anthrax spores.

I had to laugh at a few gems in this statement . . .

1. The notion that someone has developed a biological weapon that is better thatn anything the U.S. or the Russians have developed.

2. The statement that the U.S. bioweapons program is now "defunct."

I've had an interesting theory about this anthrax since Day 1, and I suspect that most articles suggesting a foreign sponsor are nothing more than attempts to divert attention. I think the stuff was either stolen from a U.S. military facility or was sold by the U.S. to a foreign country (Iraq, for example) at a time when that country was on better terms with the U.S.

28 posted on 10/28/2002 9:38:48 PM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: Cicero
it is known that a high-level German agent was at Elohim City at the time and is thought to have been involved.

You must be referring to Andreas Strassmeier. His connection to OKC is very interesting, that's for sure. I did a little research on Strassmeier recently and I came across this: Andreas Strassmeier: John Doe#2?

If that is indeed a picture of Strassmeier his resemblance to JD2 is quite a coincidence!!

29 posted on 10/28/2002 10:29:37 PM PST by Norman Arbuthnot
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To: Alamo-Girl
The article is a mixture of truth and disinformation obviously meant to lead to the conclusion that a foreign government is responsible, i.e. Iraq.

The U.S. is the only producer of the one trillion spores per gram aerosolized anthrax. The process is patented (secret patents) by William Patrick. The anthrax has been produced by Battelle Memorial Institute at the army facility in Dugway, Utah and in Battelle's own facility at West Jefferson, Ohio. Both Patrick and Ken Alibek are consultants to Battelle and the CIA on bio/chemical weapons and specifically anthrax.

If you go to the Washington Post site you will see a link beside this article that purports to show all the possible sources in the world.

The map in the graphic shows a number of sites around the world including one that corresponds to Fort Detrick. The only problem is that none of those sites are known to have the capability of producing the one trillion spores per gram.

The only two sites that have that capability (Battelle's two sites in Utah and Ohio)are missing from the map.

I would call that disinformation by omission.

30 posted on 10/28/2002 11:04:06 PM PST by Medium Rare
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To: Medium Rare
"The only two sites that have that capability (Battelle's two sites in Utah and Ohio)are missing from the map."

Your source, sir?

31 posted on 10/28/2002 11:18:33 PM PST by okie01
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To: Another Galt
I just cannot understand why the gov't has taken the position that is has.

One can understand why the Clintonized FBI and previously Hooverized FBI is not trained to think beyond its small box.

My guess is that the Bush defense and national security team has not pushed pointing the finger at Saddam because they weren't ready to take him on. They thought through the logistics of attacking Saddam, which included, among a million other details, manufacturing enough small pox vaccine for everyone in the United States and Britain; and realized that they needed to get the Taliban and scatter al-Qaida first, and build an airstrip in Qatar, etc., etc..

You can't get the American public mad as hell at Iraq for dumping anthrax on them until you are ready to act. It's the psychology of states craft at work.

You have to read Bush in code. He talks in code. When he said we would get the perpetrators of 9/11 in the time and manner of our choosing, when he said America would need patience, when he called Iraq/Iran/North Korea the axis of evil, he was letting those who can think that he was on top of this but it was going to take time.

And, I think, the time will be pretty much right after the November 5th elections and Powell is telling the UN they pretty much have only about a week left to be part of the party.

So, start praying for our country and our wonderful military, as the stakes and the risks are high enough, even with all the careful preparations that have been made.

32 posted on 10/28/2002 11:35:59 PM PST by patriciaruth
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To: Nogbad
Bmp.
33 posted on 10/29/2002 12:17:06 AM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: Cicero
I have been assuming a combination of incompetence and clintonoid malice. But what if Saddam is BLACKMAILING the higher-ups in the CIA and the FBI?

Look, if Bush wanted to pull the rug out from under the FBI, he could have done so at any time during the last twelve months. For one thing, Bush had the results of the weaponization analysis within, at most, days after the first anthrax case. The scenario that has now become a reality -- a massive terrorist attack sponsored by Saddam, with followup anthrax blackmail -- is not exactly unanticipated. They were onto this immediately, because it's such an obvious one-two play, given Saddam's known proclivities and technical capabilities. However, far from blowing the lid on the bumbling FBI "Operation Amerithrax" scam, the administration has encouraged it. Hell, they came up with this Potemkin Village in the first place.

Saddam isn't blackmailing the FBI or the CIA. He's blackmailing the entire country. Think it through. If Saddam is behind the anthrax, then he's behind 9-11. If the anthrax is aerosolizable and hand-deliverable by suicide bombers, there's not a damn thing we can do today to stop Saddam taking out millions of Americans and inflicting the total economic loss of our major East Coast cities in a showdown. Therefore, Bush can't go public on the anthrax. Everything must be kept ambiguous, until we are in a position to take out Saddam with impunity -- something that is at least a year away, still, perhaps much more.

It's not that complicated. You've just got to snap out of the Walt Disney happy-happy joy-joy mode of thinking and face the fact that whoever pulled off 9-11 is very smart, very patient, and thought the whole thing through very carefully -- including the backend security. In warfare, the advantage is almost always with the aggressor, because his moves are planned out beforehand. This, BTW, is how a jumped-up lance corporal was able to take over the entire European continent in a year. Saddam will be dispatched, but don't assume that it will be easy, or that the price in human life will be any less than it was in 1945. 9-11 was just a sneak peak at Bill Clinton's legacy. The really big stuff is yet to come.

34 posted on 10/29/2002 12:30:57 AM PST by The Great Satan
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To: PhilDragoo
Yeah, and that #@&**%$ James Kallstrom morphed a 25 Knot Boat into a helicopter in the TWA-800 Shootdown/Cover-Up event!!
And the pantload Freeh let Craig Livingston off the hook for purloining all those FBI files, when he should have gone to court for even attempting to even see one file!
35 posted on 10/29/2002 12:35:27 AM PST by timestax
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To: ellery
I think you're ignoring an important element in the bureaucracy's calculus: Attack by foreign state = war = everyone has to burn the midnight oil for months or years == jobs and power.
36 posted on 10/29/2002 4:33:36 AM PST by aristeides
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To: Sabertooth
State Sponsor = Iraq.

So sorry, your conclusion is Politically Incorrect. Stand perfectly still facing the telescreen while the nice men in the black uniforms come to take you to begin your political reeducation process.
37 posted on 10/29/2002 4:38:08 AM PST by johnb838
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To: Cicero
It wouldn'nt surprise me at all if higer-ups were being blackmailed. For some time, due to the govt's determination to cover up acts of terror I've wondered if they had been 'reached'.
38 posted on 10/29/2002 4:41:23 AM PST by johnb838
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To: okie01
Some fumed silicas are extremely difficult to make, but at least two -- Aerosil and Cab-O-Sil -- are readily available and sold commercially in bulk. Either product, in theory, could be used to coat anthrax spores. Aerosil is based in Germany and Cab-O-Sil, in Boston. Both firms have offices around the world.

Yipes... this is the 'magic additive' that threw so many people off? Jeez, I use this stuff as an additive in museum exhibit resins... people are surprised it could be used in the anthrax powdering process?

39 posted on 10/29/2002 5:44:34 AM PST by piasa
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To: Medium Rare
Ken Alibek is an ex-Soviet Kazackh scientist who worked in the Biopreparat program in Russia, (Under a slightly different name since he Americanized his name to Ken Alibek when he published his book Biohazard.)

If he's the consultant our companies have hired, there's a reason: he would be the one to ask for information from the Russian Biopreparat program- in short, the Russians were fully capable of producing the stuff. And if they were, Iraq is, since Iraq hires Russian scientists too.

40 posted on 10/29/2002 5:53:39 AM PST by piasa
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To: piasa
"Jeez, I use this stuff as an additive in museum exhibit resins..."

For my education, could bentonite also be used in your particular application?

41 posted on 10/29/2002 6:20:40 AM PST by okie01
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To: okie01
I suppose so but I haven't used it since I've always been happy with Cab-o-sil. Though anything goes depending on what we're trying to mimic. Bentonite is used with fiberglass work, so I hear, but I doubt if it is fine enough nor light enough for my purposes, which require fine detail.

The only bentonite around here in quantity is in the kitty litter...

42 posted on 10/29/2002 7:33:44 AM PST by piasa
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To: Sabertooth
IT'S ATTA, STUPID!!! (statement, not directed at you)
43 posted on 10/29/2002 8:16:19 AM PST by TexKat
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To: Medium Rare
Thank you for your post and for sharing your analysis!

I recall that the Patrick method was discovered a very long time ago. Is it not possible that Iraq could have developed an alternate method in the meantime?

44 posted on 10/29/2002 9:03:38 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: piasa
Well, more bad news... researchers can get anthrax any time they want. That's what the demons are talking about when they say we sold Iraq anthrax -- typical obsfucation. Weapons grade is another matter. I doubt we have sold any of that to anybody. Why would we?
45 posted on 10/29/2002 12:13:21 PM PST by johnb838
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To: Sabertooth
And behind Iraq is...


46 posted on 10/29/2002 3:28:18 PM PST by Jeremiah Jr
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To: Sabertooth
Thanks for the ping, Sabe, but it's already been posted:

Anthrax: No Progress in War on Bioterror - Why?

47 posted on 10/29/2002 3:43:04 PM PST by mrustow
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To: Sabertooth
You don't mean.....IRAQ??? The same country whose military men were present with McVeigh, who blew up OKC?

The same country who did NOT take credit for the SAM that took down TWA800??

Not Iraq--friend to Mexico????
48 posted on 10/29/2002 3:51:21 PM PST by ninenot
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To: browardchad
....the same reason cops raid fraternity beer parties instead of patrolling high-crime districts heavily.

You don't get shot at frat parties, and the kids wind up paying the fines (follow the MONEY....especially late in the budget year...)

FBI would rather accuse a damn-near-blind prolifer of snipershooting an abortionist than actually go mano-a-mano with nasties from the Iraqi army who are driving around the USA...
49 posted on 10/29/2002 3:55:43 PM PST by ninenot
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To: mrustow
Follow the links at #6. This is a totally different article, with a lot of info I haven't seen elsewhere.



50 posted on 10/29/2002 4:09:23 PM PST by Sabertooth
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