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Wiccans Offer Alternative to Boy Scouts
CNSNews.com ^ | October 31, 2002 | Michael L. Betsch

Posted on 10/31/2002 9:05:17 AM PST by H8DEMS

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"When you come into the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire [an ancient occult practice], or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination [detestable] to the LORD..."

Deuteronomy 18:9-12
151 posted on 10/31/2002 1:28:23 PM PST by Rustheman
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To: Bob Quixote
I was grabbing at words when I said anti male. Obviously the many married and hetero female witches are not anti male. I guess what I was trying to say was that they don't like the Christian views on the masculanity of God and gender roles.

So, do you know a lot of hetero male wiccans? Have you not noticed a larger than average percentage of gay males among wiccans? That's really my point. Is there really nothing wrong with that? ;-)

152 posted on 10/31/2002 1:28:43 PM PST by biblewonk
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To: biblewonk
Oh boy, how to I address this huge subject in simple words.

"An it harm none do thy own will".

The word WILL was used for a very important purpose. It was not "do anything you desire" or "hey, anything is allowed."

No, the word WILL was used as an expression of your Spirituality and Morality.

There are many times in your life that you may desire to do something, but because of your morality, your WILL prevents it from happening. This is Wisdom, Experience and is a major part of educating a new Wiccan.

This is so close to the Christian "Golden Rule", it is often used in debates on religious history.

153 posted on 10/31/2002 1:29:42 PM PST by Hunble
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To: H8DEMS
They were considering NAMBLA but the name was already taken.
154 posted on 10/31/2002 1:32:31 PM PST by Zathras
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To: American in Israel
Hope to meet you some day and share a Freeper Coffee.

I will take you up on that offer, and hope that the two of us may be able to talk to each other in person one day.

Remember, I also raised two VERY Christian daughters who are always telling their father that he will go to Hell because of his religion.

Think about it......

155 posted on 10/31/2002 1:35:11 PM PST by Hunble
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To: American in Israel
Almost right. Hebrew is contextual. Taking the words in context you get this.

Sorry. But thanks for playing.

For those who dont want to check the link, it reads "You will not let a poisoner live among you." Complete with contextual connetations and tenses.

156 posted on 10/31/2002 1:39:49 PM PST by Dead Corpse
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To: Dead Corpse
"You will not let a poisoner live among you."

Thanks friend, I always laugh when people fall for that bait.

Facts are annoying problems at times....

157 posted on 10/31/2002 1:44:08 PM PST by Hunble
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To: Hunble
I think it depends more on the translators intent. Here is another one that dispells a lot of the built in bias, but in a couple of respects comes closer to what the other poster tried to play out. It also expounds upon the infamous Deuteronomy passage posted above.

I'd love to stay and chat, but things are picking up here at work a bit before the end of the day.

Blessings all.....

158 posted on 10/31/2002 1:49:06 PM PST by Dead Corpse
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To: Dead Corpse
Have a wonderfull Celtic New Year tonight!

Personally, when the kids come to my door and ask "Trick or Treat", I flip a coin.

Heads, they get a treat.

Hey, my wife was the one that figured out what to do with all those walnuts from the tree this year!

159 posted on 10/31/2002 1:52:25 PM PST by Hunble
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To: Dead Corpse
All languages are contextual. Can you describe a non contextual sentance? The very use of language is all about context. What the heck is the point of a coversation that does not relate to itself? This is a moot point and is put there to obscure the reasoning.

I am surrounded by Hebrew speakers, I will just have one tell me what it means when he reads it out of the Torah and translates it into english ok? I kinda think that would bring it right into context as hebrew is their native language and I speak hebrew very poorly. Ani medaber ibriet, aval kita aleph. Ode atah yodea ibriet? Perhaps we can get this solved by a neutral observer instead of someone with an obvious agenda.

I must say that your snide addititude makes me want to puke, but I am still quite curious.

160 posted on 10/31/2002 2:19:03 PM PST by American in Israel
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To: American in Israel
Nice reply and I respect your hebrew education.

What does this have to do with the Celts?

161 posted on 10/31/2002 2:21:10 PM PST by Hunble
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To: Hunble
Did they win the game?

-grin-

Goodnight my friend. It is past midnight and all good little Christians should be in bed... (of course us onery ones tend to stay up.)

(The hebrew said that I only speak first grade hebrew, do you understand hebrew?) I will ask a few friends tomorrow. If it is anything earth shattering I will get back to the thread.
162 posted on 10/31/2002 2:28:56 PM PST by American in Israel
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To: H8DEMS
Davis believes that such a male/female balance of leadership ensures a SpiralScout's positive integration into the real world. "Children are not born with prejudices," he noted. "They have to learn prejudice and intolerance from others."

Male/female balance? Positive integration? Real world? Children not born with prejudices? This is a recipe for disaster. (Cliché intended).

Instead of spreading truth, justice, and beauty, all that will come of this is deceit, injury, and ugliness. I pity his blindness, and am saddened for the children who will be injured.

"...It was the foolish dream of children. It was the childish dream of fools...." Children’s Crusade, Tonio K., ©1987 Unicity Music/N.Y.M.

163 posted on 10/31/2002 2:52:17 PM PST by freebounder
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To: freebounder
Thanx for the Tonio K reference! "You Were There" is a great track on that album, doncha think?
164 posted on 10/31/2002 3:20:54 PM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: H8DEMS
based on tolerance for different beliefs

Boy Scouts is about surviving in the wilderness and not getting lost. Being prepared through knowledge and training to face whatever emergency arises. A scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent, remember? Don't see tolerant on the list, but it might be implied.

165 posted on 10/31/2002 3:27:16 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: Alex Murphy
yw

"you were there" is great (i wore my cassette copy out from playing it too much. i think "notes of a lost civilization", and "romeo unchained" are two of his best albums--Everytime i read a news story like the one from this post one of his songs will flash through my mind.

when weird al yankovich was asked who his favorite artist was, he said Tonio K. Another enjoyable Tonio K song is, "The ballad of the night that the clocks all quit (and the government failed).

166 posted on 10/31/2002 4:38:17 PM PST by freebounder
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To: Aric2000
If a pagan wishes to be a Boy Scout and admits that they are pagan, they CANNOT join the boy scouts.

Excuse me?

Have you any experience, or information from National specifically about admission of pagans into Scouting?

And if it turns out, as I suspect, that this is conjecture on your part, could you tell me on what basis you make this conjecture?

167 posted on 10/31/2002 4:46:42 PM PST by RonF
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To: Hunble
Quoting Aric2000:

"If a pagan wishes to be a Boy Scout and admits that they are pagan, they CANNOT join the boy scouts."

Hold on here. I've challenged him to back up this assertion. I think he's wrong.
168 posted on 10/31/2002 4:49:00 PM PST by RonF
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To: RightWhale
Pages 7 and 8 of the 10th edition of the Boy Scout Handbook:

A Scout is FRIENDLY.... He seeks to understand others. He respects those with ideas and customs different than his own.

A Scout is REVERENT. ...He respects the beliefs of others.

So the word "tolerant" isn't present, but I believe the concept is.

169 posted on 10/31/2002 5:00:22 PM PST by RonF
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To: RonF
Yes, I would assume so. I was a Boy Scout well over 40 years ago, but it's amazing that some things stick with you.
170 posted on 10/31/2002 5:16:36 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
Yes, I would assume so. I was a Boy Scout well over 40 years ago, but it's amazing that some things stick with you.

I was a Cub Scout and Boy Scout from 1960 to 1972. Got invited to leave my Troop when I came back from college with hair down to my shoulders, and my SM and Committee Chair took me aside and told me I looked like a pimp. Twenty five years later I attended a Troop meeting with my son, stuck my hand up, and recited the Scout Law and the Scout Oath for the first time in a quarter century -- letter perfect.

171 posted on 10/31/2002 5:33:55 PM PST by RonF
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To: freebounder
Totally agree with you on Tonio's best albums. Have you ever heard the two previous - Amerika, and La Bomba? There's some good stuff (not as good, but good) on both, esp. La Bomba.
172 posted on 10/31/2002 9:24:38 PM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: H8DEMS
Wiccan is a guise for satanic worship. They claim they are 'good witches' and if anyone falls for this you are a swamp land-ocean front property owner.

Any criminal justice college book specifies denominational satanic worship in details of their ploy, actions and dangers, this wiccan garbage mirrors the devil worship garbage.

Let them have satanic scouts...who cares... just don't push their anti-religion hatred and lies of whom they are on everybody.

173 posted on 11/01/2002 1:38:03 AM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: OPS4
BIG BUMP!!!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!


174 posted on 11/01/2002 1:40:11 AM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: Marysecretary
Sadly so true.

May God bless and Protect America.

175 posted on 11/01/2002 1:41:12 AM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
My thoughts exactly..... they better spiral their way back to hell.
176 posted on 11/01/2002 1:42:25 AM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: Dead Corpse
It is nothing but a huge potpourri of leftist liberal,Hitlery,U.N., communist,evil,vile,-doctrine.
177 posted on 11/01/2002 1:46:42 AM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: TexVet
I know enough of Wiccans via comparison from law enforcement study of denominational satanic sectors. The Wiccan potpourri of garbage mirrors it with a leftist liberal spin of 'feel good' 'we are good witches' load of crap.
178 posted on 11/01/2002 1:51:23 AM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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Comment #179 Removed by Moderator

To: Beth
Or the Heil hitlery we hate 'the religious right' badges.

Whatever they do they should stick to their leftist issues and leave those that could give a rats patard and the so called 'religious right,' out of it.

Let them have their own club of worship gaia and satan or mother sun the UN symbol, Al Gore, tress, or whatever...why can't they leave Christianity and basic moral common values alone and stop bashing.

180 posted on 11/01/2002 2:12:33 AM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: skull stomper
VERY well said.
181 posted on 11/01/2002 2:13:29 AM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: OPS4


182 posted on 11/01/2002 2:20:37 AM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: OPS4


183 posted on 11/01/2002 2:22:04 AM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: Rustheman
And what is the Biblical quote on someone who presents good as bad, and bad as good?
184 posted on 11/01/2002 4:00:56 AM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: Hunble
The word WILL was used for a very important purpose. It was not "do anything you desire" or "hey, anything is allowed."

No, the word WILL was used as an expression of your Spirituality and Morality.

I think that you could find a lot of wiccans who think this verse shows homosexuality to be perfectly ok. You might be rare in your conservative interpretation. But, all it takes is to find like minded people with the same interpretation and everyone is happy. Perhaps you have heard "Do thy own will shall be the whole of the law" Anton Levey.

This is so close to the Christian "Golden Rule", it is often used in debates on religious history.

I have thought of the two together many times. That and prayer vs spells. In my study of wicca I am disappointed in the diversity of the definitions of God. This really seems to be up to the individual and that being the case, all the more with "an it harm none..."

185 posted on 11/01/2002 6:21:02 AM PST by biblewonk
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To: American in Israel
Snide? If you think that was snide, maybe I've been spending too much time arguing Libertarian philosophy. The things I've gotten hit with on those threads make my rejoineder exceedingly mild. Sorry if I caused offense.

All languages have a certain drift. Meanings can change over time. In just the last few decades, a liberal has changed into a socialist by the old meanings. Now imgaine the linguistic drift over 2000 years.

Unless your source knows the etymology of the hebrew language of course. Then an accurate translation "could" be attained.

I'd be interested to know what you find. Please feel free to Freepmail me if you like.

186 posted on 11/01/2002 6:38:16 AM PST by Dead Corpse
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To: Dead Corpse
I asked a Sabra, someone who was born here and grew up in a kibutz. She said the word meant those who preform magic, they could use potions but the focus was on the magic not how they did it.

Makes no difference to me, I was just curious. She was suprised that I was trying to separate the two. It was not a unfamiliar word to her, I mentioned the scripture, she mentioned the word. It suprises me some times how much the average Israeli studies the Torah, and in deed how little they study the rest...
187 posted on 11/01/2002 6:52:26 AM PST by American in Israel
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To: TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
You haven't a clue what a Wiccan is, we don't even believe in your socalled Satan, let alone worship him.

Go find a toilet to spew your crap, because you are full of it.

Your christian intolerance is showing.
188 posted on 11/01/2002 7:50:50 AM PST by Aric2000
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To: Aric2000
They know this. Don't let them bait you. It makes some people feel more important to thump around and mindlessly bang their chests. Leave them to it. A good yardstick to use to determine if they just want to flame is the number of times they post off topic rants. A willingness to actually respond to your posts directly is another good one.

You'll only give yourself grey hairs trying to enlighten the trolls. Trust me, I know. ;-)

189 posted on 11/01/2002 8:49:53 AM PST by Dead Corpse
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To: H8DEMS
This is fine with me. Hopefully it will draw away all the homosexuals and atheists who have been seeking so ardently to destroy Boy Scouts.
190 posted on 11/01/2002 8:59:54 PM PST by yendu bwam
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To: Aric2000
This so called whacko group will NOT hurt children, MORON!!

Right. Whenever you put homosexual men in charge of teenage boys in close quarters, as in scouts, molestations will occur. They'll get thown out as you say, but it will be too late for the kids involved.

191 posted on 11/01/2002 9:04:17 PM PST by yendu bwam
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To: OPS4
Hey OPS4, since you've mentioned it so frequently, albeit as subtext, but would you be so kind as to tell us what Christian Denomination is it that you belong to?

You referred earlier to "so-called Christian Denominations", so I assume that you believe your's to be the correct one, which one is it? Please be specific.

192 posted on 11/01/2002 9:34:54 PM PST by Lord_Baltar
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To: Lord_Baltar
Sorry It took so long to answer you I was off line.

I am a believer in the Messianic Judeo-Chrisitan Faith.
Some are called Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus, or the synod of Christians and Jews!

God Bless You!
Ops4 God Bless America!
193 posted on 11/02/2002 8:52:30 AM PST by OPS4
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To: Dead Corpse
Prime #1 reason why I don't often associate with other Pagans.

If I was going to go Pagan, I'd at least make it something fun, like the Viking religion - lots of cool gods like Thor and Oden, and a life of pillage and drunken festivals.

194 posted on 11/02/2002 8:59:05 AM PST by Hacksaw
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To: Aric2000
You haven't a clue what a Wiccan is, we don't even believe in your socalled Satan, let alone worship him.

This is an honest question - I have read that the Wiccans have a diety they call the "horned god". He looks pretty satanish to me (from drawings) - could you elaborate on this?

195 posted on 11/02/2002 9:03:14 AM PST by Hacksaw
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To: H8DEMS
I've watched a few "wiccans" on tv. The females were fat, manless, and hairy-legged, and the males were D&D players who never grew up.
196 posted on 11/02/2002 9:07:25 AM PST by PatrioticAmerican
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To: H8DEMS
Contrary to the Boy Scout policy of excluding homosexuals - a policy upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court - the SpiralScouts welcomes homosexuals within its ranks. Davis explained that the Wiccan religion accommodates homosexuals because its philosophy is focused on the "balance of polarities" of that exist in nature.

Gee, ain't that special.....

197 posted on 11/02/2002 9:10:39 AM PST by freebilly
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To: H8DEMS
And all you "Christians" out there who kept saying how you "couldn't find anything wrong with the Harry Potter books..."

How do you feel NOW?!
198 posted on 11/02/2002 9:14:35 AM PST by Lurking2Long
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To: VRWC_minion
We are a Pagan alternative to existing youth scouting programs, welcoming boys and girls of all ages, backgrounds and faith traditions.

Just as long as none of those "faith traditions" are Christian....

199 posted on 11/02/2002 9:14:43 AM PST by freebilly
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To: H8DEMS
Someone needs to place a big millstone order...
200 posted on 11/02/2002 9:18:26 AM PST by Axenolith
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