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THE LIVE THREAD: Election 2002 Compilation Thread | November 5, 2002 | Freepers

Posted on 11/05/2002 3:25:35 PM PST by Howlin

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To: nicollo
Giving that speech with a bullet in his chest was an amazing publicity stunt. Whatever the heroics of the act, it got him votes.

*He pinked me! Don't harm him, bring him up here. I want to get a good look at him...*
--T.R., 14 October 1912, Milwaukee.

4,501 posted on 11/07/2002 11:46:19 AM PST by archy
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To: archy
But do you know why black was Ford's preferred colour choice?
Ford's biographer, Nevins, discounts that story. It came from an early factory worker's recollections. Like many such stories, Ford rebuilt it into legend. He was a master at p.r.

The first "T's" in 1909 were red and gray, then Brewster Green. BUT, black did become the only color, and you are right.

The black paint dried quickest.

4,502 posted on 11/07/2002 12:17:05 PM PST by nicollo
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To: archy
I don’t have a source for your quotation, “Why spoil the beauty of a thing with legalities?” It reminds one of this:

At a meeting to discuss the Panama Canal, Roosevelt asked the Cabinet about the legality of his actions, which were under attack in Congress. “No, Mr. President, if I were you I would not have any taint of legality about it,” replied Attorney General Knox. Roosevelt exclaimed, “Have I answered the charges? Have I defended myself?” Secretary of War Elihu Root settled the matter with, “You certainly have, Mr. President. You have shown that you were accused of seduction and you have conclusively proved that you were guilty of rape”
I don’t recall offhand the source, but a quick check finds it described in “T. R.: The Last Romantic,” by H. W. Brands, pg. 488. I think Henry Pringle first dug it up, but I’m not sure.

Oh, I mispoke with this: many of Debs' closest advisers helped prepare the Bull Moose platform.

That’s called typing before thinking. The socialist who helped TR was Bruere (can’t remember first name), and he helped edit Roosevelt’s Bull Moose nomination acceptance speech, not the platform. In public, Debs credited himself for the Progressive plank. Word of the Bruere assistance to Roosevelt upset not the Progressives but the socialists who called Bruere a traitor.

Yep, Taft took only a few thousand votes in CA, and Debs some 80,000. That says more about California than Taft (he, he). Hiram Johnson had that state wrapped up. Interestingly, Debs scored 50,000 votes in Oklahoma, almost as many as Taft. I don’t know OK politics, although it was Democratic then (home of the “blind Senator” Gore – who was also corrupt; maybe he figured he couldn’t be accused of things he couldn’t see...). Btw, my list has Taft taking almost 5,000 in AZ, which had a far lower vote total than CA. They hated Taft in AZ because he vetoed the first constitution which had judicial recall in it. Taft said he wrote his heart into that veto.

1912 was a wild year. My next work will be a closer study of it. Can’t wait to start, which means finishing this other one first.

Again, thanks, and I hope I’ve at least got you thinking about TR and the judiciary.

PS Indeed, Roosevelt's "strenuosity" paid off in Oct/1912. His doctor said his huge chest muscles saved his life and that he'd never seen such a strong man.

4,503 posted on 11/07/2002 12:19:21 PM PST by nicollo
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To: archy
On the Model T & black paint... again, clarification of what I wrote. Ford's biographer said that Ford made the statement in a board meeting. It was not so much a corporate policy as an articulation of his ultimate statement, which was the "universal" car, each being exactly the same and in insane numbers off the factory line. The color black was necessary for it. It happened in 1912, four years into the "T."
4,504 posted on 11/07/2002 12:36:30 PM PST by nicollo
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To: nicollo
The black paint dried quickest

Yep. And carbon pigment was cheapest, aside from oxide red hues made from iron and other oxides, [*rust*] as per flat-red barn paint.

The Pennsylvania Railroad came to the same conclusion in that same era with their dark *Brunswick Green* for passenger cars and locomotives, a green so dark as to be indistinguishable from black except in the brightest daylight. And the thousands upon thousands of freight equipment and locos painted in the Pennsy's red-oxide *Freight-car colour* may not have been as glossy, but were cheaper to maintain.

4,505 posted on 11/07/2002 12:44:25 PM PST by archy
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To: nicollo; *bang_list
The socialist who helped T.R. was Bruere (can't remember first name), and he helped edit Roosevelt's Bull Moose nomination acceptance speech...

There was a Robert Bruere who wrote for the New York Post and Harpers back then, covering the I.W.W. and labour movement, and, in particular, the forced relocation of immigrant and Wobbly-inclined miners from the Phelps Dodge copper mines around Bisbee, Arizona to Columbus, New Mexico during WWI. It might have been the same literary light, or perhaps a relative. But possibly that osometime New Yorker could have had connections to T.R. dating back to Roosevelt's time in New York as Police Commissioner.

Afraid I'm better acquainted with the material from the New York Sun in those and later days...

1912 was a wild year...

I'm sure those sailing from Liverpool aboard the Titanic would agree, and Wilbur wright certainly found at least one event that year to be a personal milestone....

Thanks and I hope I've got you thinking about T.R. and the judiciary.

I took the canal zone and let congress debate, and while the debate goes on, the canal does also.
--T.R., at Berkeley, California, 23 March,1911.

Be honest, and remember that honesty counts for nothing unless back of it lie courage and efficiency.
--T.R., The Groton School; 24 May 1904>

A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.
--T.R.; autobiography

4,506 posted on 11/07/2002 1:18:47 PM PST by archy
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To: archy
4,507 posted on 11/07/2002 3:23:23 PM PST by PROTESTBYPROXY
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4,508 posted on 11/07/2002 3:47:13 PM PST by archy
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To: Timesink
>Talent 52 Carnahan 46.

It drew closer but Talent won. Two years ago, Ashcroft and Talent were both winning by about that amount when I went to bed and when I woke up, they had both lost. I hope you understand my nervousness.
Got to credit Mayor Slay for keeping the election from getting out of hand in St. Louis. A lot of cops around.
4,509 posted on 11/07/2002 7:08:12 PM PST by Missouri
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To: archy
I reject most anything out of TR's autobiography. It's a silly, self-serving and often lying document that has been sadly credited with relevance.

The only autobio worse than TR's was La Follette's quivering piece, or Amos Pinchot's. Seriously. Compare them to Grant's, for example, or even Taft's post-presidential works (no autobiography), both of which are wholly devoid of the Rooseveltian "I". Thank God his nephew didn't live long enough to write his own autobio. Then again, too bad he didn't retire in time to write it...

Can you tell that the whole generation of progressives really pisses me off?

Here's a Bull Moose graphic back at you:

New Nationalism, Self Adoration, Recall of Judges,
Third Term, Populism, Egotism

4,510 posted on 11/07/2002 11:22:59 PM PST by nicollo
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To: nicollo
Oops, here's another...

Beware of the Demagogglephant!"

...and another...

Presidential Nomination
"I decline!"

... or this...

Bound by
"gratitude, loyalty, admiration, allegiance,
devotion, regard, and obligation"

4,511 posted on 11/07/2002 11:29:34 PM PST by nicollo
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To: nicollo
Oh, I prefer this one...

And this pretty one [still relevant today!]

And this 'un! Say, what was Taft's home state...?

4,512 posted on 11/08/2002 10:10:02 AM PST by archy
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To: Howlin


4,513 posted on 11/04/2006 10:01:08 PM PST by pushforbush
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