Thune holds off on recount (chad checking a possibility)

Rapid City (SD) Journal ^ | 11-07-02 | Denise Ross

[jwalburg]

Narrowly defeated Republican Senate candidate John Thune has postponed a decision about whether to call for a recount after unofficial vote returns showed him losing to incumbent Democrat Tim Johnson by less than two-fifths of a percentage point.

Thune, South Dakota's three-term congressman, said he will await the outcome of the official statewide vote canvass on Tuesday, Nov. 12, to see whether Johnson's 528-vote lead erodes.

"The numbers are in, and we came up a little bit short. I don't anticipate a change," Thune said when he addressed reporters early Wednesday afternoon. "We'll wait and see."

State law allows for a recount if the margin is within one-fourth of 1 percent. Thune would have until Friday, Nov. 15, to request a recount.

The final tally was 167,477 votes for Johnson and 166,949 for Thune. Libertarian Kurt Evans, who had dropped out of the race, drew 3,071 votes.

Thune, 41, and Johnson, 55, watched see-saw returns roll in throughout the night as counting was held up by equipment problems in two counties and other precincts simply took all or most of the night to count votes.

By 2 a.m., Thune held a fairly commanding lead of more than 3,000 votes.

By sunrise, Johnson had made up the ground and edged ahead.

"At about 3 in the morning, I went back and got about an hour's worth of sleep," Johnson said. "It was not looking as good as I would have liked. Our lead had completely eroded away. We also knew which precincts were left and knew John's lead wasn't insurmountable."

Johnson's wife, Barb, woke him to tell him the gap had narrowed to about 500 votes, he said. "I could see not much room for error," he said.

Counties have until Friday, Nov. 8, to tally each precinct total into a countywide total. Secretary of state officials will add county totals to arrive at an official statewide total Tuesday. Any recount would convene with a three-member recount board in each county on Monday, Nov. 25.

Although Thune said he doesn't expect things to change and won't pursue a formal recount unless "absolutely necessary," he stopped short of conceding the race and said he's keeping his options open.

"We're hoping for a math error," Thune said. "I can't say at this point I'm ruling out any option."

Thune called Johnson on Wednesday morning to congratulate him on his apparent victory.

"He said he did want to take a look at the canvass, and I respect that," Johnson said. "He has every right to do that. We agreed the likelihood of there being a 500-vote problem in a canvass isn't very high."

In addition to a recount, a variety of legal challenges are possible, although no specific situations were publicly in play by Wednesday afternoon. State law sets a Monday, Nov. 18, deadline for someone to legally contest the election results.

On Tuesday, the Todd County auditor asked a judge for an injunction to delay the counting of votes due to confusion over which hours the polls were to be open. However, the judge denied the request, and the votes were counted, Secretary of State-elect Chris Nelson said.

"End of story," Nelson said.

Nelson, the state's longtime elections supervisor, said he knew of no other reports of voting irregularities beyond a few unfounded rumors floating around Wednesday.

Democratic officials were aware of a few dozen voters from Pine Ridge who might have been denied the right to vote, but they ran out of time Tuesday to locate copies of the would-be voters' registration cards, a spokeswoman said.

It was the vote from Shannon County - where returns were completely unavailable until after 2 a.m. - that helped Johnson squeak through. Democrats launched massive voter-registration and get-out-the-vote efforts statewide and concentrated on South Dakota's Indian reservations, where voters lean heavily Democratic. On Tuesday, 2,856 Pine Ridge Indian Reservation voters in Shannon County, 92 percent, cast votes for Johnson.

"This was a major step forward for the native vote in this state. But when you win by 500 votes, everybody can take some credit for it," Johnson said. "We work every county in the state hard. We wrung every vote out that we could."

Thune, too, recognized the record level of campaign volunteers and high voter turnout.

"We saw literally thousands of people get involved in the political process that never have been involved before," Thune said.

Thune will decide next week whether any as-yet-unformed county recount boards get involved.

If a recount is requested, the presiding judges in South Dakota's seven state-court circuits would appoint a three-member recount board for each of the counties in their purview, Nelson said. Under state law, each board would consist of one Republican, one Democrat and an attorney belonging to the political party that carried that county in the 1998 governor's race.

The boards would convene Monday, Nov. 25, and have no deadline to complete their work. Board members would examine each ballot physically, looking for an official ballot stamp and any irregularities. State law spells out how to identify and handle various kinds of disputed ballots, he said. The law sets up a two-person resolution board to examine ballots that machines have trouble counting, he said.

The group would decide whether to count the ballots by hand or, in the case of optical-scan and punch-card ballots, by machine, Nelson said.

Work could take weeks in the state's largest counties, where only three people would do all the work. In Pennington County, 35,976 ballots were cast; in Minnehaha County, 65,538.

"Those folks will have a large job," Nelson said.

A recount for one of South Dakota's federal offices is not unprecedented. The three most recent examples each had a Democrat narrowly defeating a Republican.

In 1978, then-Congressman Tom Daschle defeated Leo Thorsness, ultimately by 139 votes, in the state's former first congressional district in eastern South Dakota. Daschle took his seat in the U.S. House while awaiting the results of the recount.

In 1962, Sen. George McGovern narrowly defeated Joe Bottum, and Bottum alleged voting irregularities. The Rapid City Journal quoted him as noting "registrations at the polls of persons not qualified to vote." Bottum referred to construction workers working at Ellsworth Air Force Base who did not meet the state's one-year residency requirement.

In that recount, hundreds of ballots ended up changing in both directions.

In 1937, Democrat Clair Roddewig defeated Republican Sterling Clark by 376 votes.

[jwalburg]

The boards would convene Monday, Nov. 25, and have no deadline to complete their work. Board members would examine each ballot physically, looking for an official ballot stamp and any irregularities. State law spells out how to identify and handle various kinds of disputed ballots, he said. The law sets up a two-person resolution board to examine ballots that machines have trouble counting, he said.

Will hoards of Dem chad-checking lawyers come in to help out, I wonder.

[MrPeanut]

Thune came up at the President's news conference. I think he is about to get an appointment somewhere in this adiministration for showing alot of class. The American people do not want leaders with recounts- they want leaders with class.

[Interesting Times]

Really?

Perhaps "the American people" you so speak for so presumptuously would like to see vote fraud identified, the election results corrected, and the perps sent to prison.

[nutmeg]

Bump to read later

[sabe@q.com]

Bush owes him a job in his administration. He left the house to run for the senate at Bush's urging...

[newzhawk]

I think you are correct- in your comment about class vs recount- the fraud should still be investigated- and I am not sure how in a three way race Johnson came up with over 160000 votes when most of the other Democrats had approx 130-150000 votes and this was a three way split - very strange numbers - I keep trying to explain it but it doesn't work out right-but maybe he could be placed somewhere important and save face and come back to clean Daschle's clock later

[Bush_Democrat]

Thune came up at the President's news conference. I think he is about to get an appointment somewhere in this adiministration for showing alot of class

I think Bush should appoint him to a high-level position, and task him with investigating all allegations of voter fraud!

[Pardon Me]

Here is an address for a poll from the Sioux Falls Argus leader asking "Should Thune ask for a recount?
http://www.argusleader.com/
Anyone that is more computer literate than I am may want to post this as a poll to freep!

[jwalburg]

A three way split with a Libertarian candidate who bowed out weeks before the election.

[SamAdams76]

Count me as one who wants a recount. There was no problem with having a recount in Florida either. In fact, it was the proper thing to do. The problems came into play when the 'Rats tried to restrict the recount to their strong areas, tried to invalidate absentee ballots (from the military), swallowed chads and otherwise tried to manufacture Gore votes while invalidating Bush votes.

[Tree of Liberty]

If Thune does not contest the outcome, what are the chances he'll run against Dash-hole in '04?

[SoDak]

It's hard to even post about this yet, I still feel like my heart got ripped out yesterday morning. All the blood, sweat, and tears and we lost. It might not have been so bad even if we got beat by a landslide, but to get beat by 500 votes feels awful. America still won, in the larger picture, and in SD, Repubs won every other election of consequence, but this one will be hard to get over. If fraud is found on the res, it needs to be exposed.

[who knows what evil?]

In 1978, then-Congressman Tom Daschle defeated Leo Thorsness, ultimately by 139 votes, in the state's former first congressional district in eastern South Dakota.

The potential consequences of voter fraud...if 140 of these votes were fraudulent, and they had been CAUGHT, we might NOT have had Tom Daschle to contend with the past two years (or before that, as well...who knows? Where might JOHNSON be in twenty years, if we let him get away with it?)

[RooRoobird14]

The main thing I'm concerned about here is a full investigation of alleged voter fraud--it they find it, it needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I'm SICK of these crooked Scumocrats and their ballot box stuffing.

[jwalburg]

The potential consequences of voter fraud...if 140 of these votes were fraudulent, and they had been CAUGHT, we might NOT have had Tom Daschle to contend with the past two years (or before that, as well...who knows? Where might JOHNSON be in twenty years, if we let him get away with it?)

Now that is something to meditate on for a while. Good point.

[Carry_Okie]

Allowing the Slave Party to continue to get away with fraud is not "class." A "leader" would get this country to acknowledge and correct its problem, just as any decent parent corrects their children. Not to do so leaves us a laughing stock around the world, not to mention imperils the Republican majority in the Senate to a Chaffee bailout.

No. Face the problem squarely and fix it.

[KriegerGeist]

"Perhaps "the American people" you so speak for so presumptuously would like to see vote fraud identified, the election results corrected, and the perps sent to prison."

I agree and could not have stated it better.
We as a people and this nation and the Senate needs a man like John Thune and not this liberal, fraud Johnson who woon by cheating and is brother-in-har with his butt-buddy Tommy Daschle. South Dakota Republicans, Conservatives, fellow Freepers deserve better! And "better" is not Johnson.
Plus, we also need a larger margin of majority in case of unfortunate accidents (Clintons still have the power to bring down planes and cause suicides) or there is the "jumping" Senators like Jeffords and soon Chafee.

[Attillathehon]

I think there was a lot less vote fraud this time because the Dems were afraid that Ashcroft would prosecute them. If he doesn't go after the perps in South Dakota, the Dems will be up to their old tricks in the 2004 election. Vote integrity is extremely important and every single allegation of vote fraud, no matter how small or apparently inconsequential, must be investigated and the perps prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[bankwalker]

MrPeanut signed up 2002-11-04.

[Lurking2Long]

Nelson, the state's longtime elections supervisor, said he knew of no other reports of voting irregularities beyond a few unfounded rumors floating around Wednesday.

Could one of you more computer savvy Freepers please send this "supervisor" the text of one of the more salient South Dakota threads so he can see that there are more than just "rumors" to this debacle!

[nicmarlo]

Online Poll

Should Rep. John Thune R-S.D., pursue a recount in his close loss to Sen. Tim Johnson, D-S.D.?

	64.2%
Yes

	35.8%
No

Total Votes: 2466

[ThinkingMan]

SoDak-
I too am extremely upset about this. Mr. Thune is handling it with a lot of class. If it does go to a recount, I am certain that we will show the country how it can be done professionaly. That being said, I will simply paste a copy of my post to another thread (Johnson bragging about getting out the Native vote) :


First they commit vote fraud, now they brag about it. "100% voter registration in the precinct" my @ss.

As a resident of SD I am ashamed of those so-called "Republican" whores that sold their vote to try and keep Daschle in power. The fraud, which everyone knew about before the election, could have been easily overcome if those who got greedy would have voted their principles instead. Now we are stuck with Johnson and Daschle for at least 2 years.

I have made many calls to Thune's office asking that they force the issue after the canvassing is completed, but I seriously doubt they will. My only hope now is that he will run against Daschle in 2 years and the whores will redeem themselves with a real vote.

[jmstein7]

Agreed. Thune should NOT throw in the towel. If the tables were reversed, the Democrats woud move heaven and hell to reverse the results. The only way to defeat an enemy is to beat them at their own game. Johnson does NOT deserve to be seated unless he can prove that his win was legitimate and not due to 500 people who were dead, voted multiple times, or were actually family pets. So, Thune should dig his heels in, yet conduct himself in a dignified manner -- quiet, but resolute.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Online Poll

Should Rep. John Thune R-S.D., pursue a recount in his close loss to Sen. Tim Johnson, D-S.D.?

	64.2%
Yes

	35.8%
No

Total Votes: 2468

[jmstein7]

Agreed. Thune should NOT throw in the towel. If the tables were reversed, the Democrats woud move heaven and hell to reverse the results. The only way to defeat an enemy is to beat them at their own game. Johnson does NOT deserve to be seated unless he can prove that his win was legitimate and not due to 500 people who were dead, voted multiple times, or were actually family pets. So, Thune should dig his heels in, yet conduct himself in a dignified manner -- quiet, but resolute.

[SoDak]

I feel sorry for the first of my Republican friends who reports to me that he sided with Johnson. I never imagined we had this many RINO's in this state. It makes me sick to my stomach to see these numbers when Pubbies supposedly outnumber Dims by a large margin. My sister is a rino, and skipped voting this year, I asked her last night to change her registration. Morons. Just am still too dang livid to post about it much.

[Lurking2Long]

Just sent this e-mail to the reporter who covered the story.

Enjoyed your story about the Senatorial election. However, I really hope and pray that you do some investigative reporting to dig into these supposed “rumors” of vote fraud. If you look at the statistics surrounding voting in Shannon County I think you will begin to see that this election is not in lone with past ones. Additionally, you should explore the angle of why these results came in (conveniently) last out of all precincts, and why, in the weeks leading up to the election, there were so many instances of voter registration fraud that were discovered. Regardless of any political persuasion you may have, it would be nice to see you, as a U.S. citizen and a reporter, take the initiative to dig into this situation. Who knows; there may be a Pulitzer prize awaiting your efforts. God bless!

Hope she takes the bait!

[Coop]

The American people do not want leaders with recounts- they want leaders with class.

I personally want a leader that does the right thing even if it's not politically convenient. For instance, fighting for the proper tallying of ALL votes of one's constituents or potential constituents, especially involving areas already identified for voting fraud. Bowing out "gracefully" to wait for the next government hand out does not impress me.

[scannell]

What is with all these Liberatarian votes that look like they cost Thune the election. Does anyone have the capacity to think up there?

[Saundra Duffy]

The suspense!!!!!!!!!

[mrs9x]

State law sets a Monday, Nov. 18, deadline for someone to legally contest the election results.

So, can anyone in South Dakota file a challenge, or is this only for Thune to do? It seems like according to the paper, any voter in S.D. could have standing. If so, some S.D. freeper needs to call an RNC lawyer and get a lawsuit going!

[ThinkingMan]

A friend of my wife stopped by on election night. She said that she had voted a straight ticket w/ the exception of Johnson. I railed on her for 15 minutes about the greed she showed by voting for a chance at power and federal funds vs. voting for a pro-life conservative. I then asked her how much she would sell my children's lives for. She left.

[Teacher317]

I'll do it.

[bankwalker]

I think Bush should appoint him to a high-level position, and task him with investigating all allegations of voter fraud!

The integrity of our voting process is critical to our security, so that position should be in the new homeland security department.

[nicmarlo]

I already e-mailed Thune yesterday, requesting he NOT give in, that voter fraud be investigated, and that it would be WRONG to let this go, especially when rat fraud is so rampant, and particularly already well-founded in South Dakota. I told him there are many Americans that agree with my position on this.

[alethia]

I'm with you on this -- there IS fraud -- that's already been proven. I DO believe that if there's enough evidence of fraud, there should be another election -- don't you? With lots and lots of poll watchers.

[Ingtar]

They already found about a 6000 vote math error in Alabama that decided the race for Governor.

[scannell]

I agree, a little busting of some fraud could go a long way in detering more fraud when Daschel lines up in 2004.

[ThinkingMan]

Please lay off of us SD freepers. We are just as disgusted as everyone else. I have been VERY PO'd for the last couple days with those who attack "all SD pubs are fools!"

A lot of work went into the Thune effort, and I doubt that you will find a single SD freeper that voted for Johnson or Evans.

Thanks.

[scannell]

What was the margin in AL and did they correction change any results?

[KQQL]

Sorry, but ( 25% of the Republicans in So uth Dakota are
socialist)..

what's the use of having a republican state............like SD....when DEm state like GA and and toss- up states like MN and MO gave Republicans the NOD...

Actually in GA and MN gave the GOP the nod..at state level too////

[scannell]

My comment and inquiry was not about SD Freepers, but about voters for the Liberatarian. Don't be so sensitive.

[backhoe]

Vote fraud is cancer that undermines, denegriates and invalidates everybody's vote- right, left, or center. It needs to be uncovered, and rooted out:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/784452/posts

South Dakota Suspicions
The National Review ^ | 11-07-02 | Byron York

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/783850/posts
What happened in Bon Homme Co., S.D.?
CNN ^

 

http://www.aberdeennews.com/mld/aberdeennews/4459206.htm

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/783963/posts

Arrest Expected in Voter Fraud Investigation (South Dakota)
South Dakota Attorney General ^ | 11/01/2002 | Mark Barnett
I just found an article that confirms that the Libertarian candidate DID drop out and DID throw his support to Thune. This minor little item barely made it to local papers, if at all.
http://www.argusleader.com/columnists/dkranz/10_20_02.shtml

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/784111/posts

So Dak More Registered Voters Than Population??
Myself ^ | 10/6/2002 | Myself

And if that wasn't bad enough, there's worse:

-The Vote Fraud Archives--

-Need Vote Fraud articles, stories, and evidence? Here's a source--

[Freee-dame]

By 2 a.m., Thune held a fairly commanding lead of more than 3,000 votes. By sunrise, Johnson had made up the ground and edged ahead.

The old find-the-votes-you-need long after the polls close trick. Somehow it didn't work in Baltimore this year.

[KQQL]

In Al the race went from RAt to Riley with 6000 vote flip.

[scannell]

If we had that kind of error in SD that was discovered later, the Pine Ridge Reservation would not have felt they had to find the votes and reported the actual votes and then the correction could have put Thune back over the top. HA

[ThinkingMan]

If my response came off as overly-sensitive, it was not meant that way. I have been walking around feeling like I got punched in the gut since about 9:00 yesterday morning.

I am thrilled beyond belief over the overall victory in the Senate, but it feels like being on a team that wins the super-bowl and sitting on the bench the whole game.

[expatpat]

Do you think Mr. Peanut is Jimmy Carter?

[coramdeo]

Thune is playing this right, showing great concern about the gravity of asking for the recount. Remember the repellant vision of Al Gore and his minions smacking their lips in anticipation. This way, if it looks favorable, he will look like he is reluctantly doing it only because it's the right thing to do.

[bert]

...The American people do not want leaders with recounts- they want leaders with class.....

Yes but....

Remember the words of the great American who defeated the Soviets...."Trust but verify!"