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Hootie: No woman member by Masters
ESPN/AP ^ | Nov. 11, 2002 | AP

Posted on 11/11/2002 3:39:20 PM PST by jern

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To: Man of the Right
You couldn't be more wrong man. For one thing, many members of Augusta are Billionaires. That's Billionaires with a B. The rest are merely worth tens of millions. They don't need sponsorship money. They will gladly air the tournament without sponsorship. Hootie already conceded this point. He doesn't want his traditional sponsors to have to feel the heat (however unjustified) on this issue. They'll never buckle. How can you call yourself a conservative with a straight face? What don't you understand about the definition of "private"?
51 posted on 11/12/2002 11:21:19 AM PST by strider44
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To: strider44
We're going to disagree on this one. Private property is not an absolute right: I can't possess proscribed drugs.

The Augusta National is a national public institution. It's the home of the Masters. The annual telecast is the most-watched golf tournament. Tens of thousands attend the tournament. It's not the Boy Scouts. And it's not a little 'ole hunting lodge in south Alabama that four guys from work buy to hunt pheasant and drink Jack Daniels.

Excluding women is morally wrong. I'll leave it to the lawyers to argue whether it's legally wrong. And it's dumb. If the clown Hootie insists on defending his point, he's going to destroy one of the most admired institutions in America. (What serious individual allows himself to be called "Hootie" and look like he does?) The club was founded by Bobby Jones at a time when Georgia and the South were a totally different place than today. I'm old enough to remember the South before and after. It's a far better place today. Institutions survive because they adapt to change while retaining their traditions. You can't make a case women can't play golf or be let into the clubhouse without peeing on the carpet. They're adults. And while you're at it, they control 55% of the nation's wealth. So there's no case to be made for their exclusion. I also think the Masters would be a better place if there were more than one Black and one Jewish member each. Tiger Woods can't be a member, but Hootie can. Defend that one.

I'm a year 2002 conservative, not Theodore Bilbo circa-1913.






In the '50s this would have been a hotly debated issue. In 2002 it's adapting to the world as it is.






52 posted on 11/12/2002 11:53:27 AM PST by Man of the Right
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To: Man of the Right
Why can't Tiger Woods be a member? Explain that statement. There's also more than one black member. So I guess you support the Title IX policy that caused the death of many NCAA Division 1 mens wrestling programs. Fine. Why don't people understand that YOU CAN'T LEGISLATE MORALITY!!! This is not the government's business. I beg to differ with your conclusion that people will vote with there check books. Every avid golfer (probably 80% male) will still watch the Masters. They could give two craps about Augusta's policies. IT'S GOLF - NOT THE RIGHT TO VOTE!!! This is a private organization,it receives zero government funding. Are you also going to say that the Boy Scouts aren't a national public institution?! If women do in fact control 55% of the wealth in this country, then there should be plenty of rich women golfers out there that can pool their respective fortunes and start their own club. They can even throw their own tournament. But here's some harsh reality for you - nobody will watch. Why?Because men are better golfers, period. People want to watch Tiger Woods and Sergio Garcia and others of their ilk because they crush their drives 300 yards. That's cool to watch. Women can't do that. They can't hit an impossible 220-yard hooking 5-iron over water to land on a par 5 in 2. Golf will always be dominated by men.
53 posted on 11/12/2002 12:15:40 PM PST by strider44
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To: strider44
Ultimately, the sanctity of private property depends on community protection. As a practical matter, Hootie isn't going to defend the all-male membership policy of the Augusta based on his military prowess. If fewer than 20 Southern White Protestant males of English descent wanted to found a club to play golf, associate only with clones, joke about the people they had blackballed and what inferior scum individuals of all other regions, races, religions, sexes, and ethnic groups were, they're not going to be disturbed as a legal or practical matter. Unfortunately for Hootie and the board of the Augusta National, their club lost its virginity. They got big, they became famous, they began televising their tournament, which gets big ratings and they rake in millions. The course is beautiful, if you think every weed on the planet should be exterminated. Personally, I prefer St. Andrews. Yeah, the club is private property in the same sense Stanford, General Electric, and the New York Public Library are private property. They're private property, but public institutions. It matters to society whether a woman can attend Stanford, be employed professionally at GE or check out a book at the NYPL because women bear and rear children
for only a brief period of their lives and many don't bear children at all. Women can and do wish to play adult roles that have nothing to do with gender. Therefore, excluding them is unfair. Excluding them from the Augusta is unfair and probably illegal. I can't believe you argued against female membership based on ability to play. You and I might argue that all male players on the PGA tour as a class would beat all female players in match play more than 50% of the time over an extended period of time. But we'll never know, because they don't compete. In the end it doesn't matter because we don't compete by gender in this society, we compete as individuals or in teams. But it would be a real, real stretch to say there aren't female golfers who couldn't humiliate Hootie, you and I on a golf course consistently unless you are playing Tiger and beating him on occasion. Hootie doesn't look like he could replace a tee without suffering a myocardial infarction. So if golfing ability is the criterion for membership, Suzy Whaley goes in and Hootie hands out golf balls. If it's wealth, the Walton sisters go in and Hootie parks cars. If it's social position, Liz Windsor goes in and Hootie starts using deodorant. And if it's power, Nancy Pelosi has more than Hootie, hateful as that thought is.

The Augusta National is 70 years old. In 1932 women and Jews didn't enter gentlemen's clubs. And blacks were more likely to be lynched than play golf. It's not 1932. A smart board would change quietly with the times. The lack of women or blacks or Jews wouldn't be an issue because Carly Fiorina and Ken Chenault and Sandy Weill would be out there on the course. But Hootie isn't that bright. With age, blood vessels become constricted. Less oxygen flows to the brain. In general people become less willing to change. They resist. And they're run over. Hitler is going to resist until the inevitable victory. And George Wallace is going to stand in the school house door. Wrong.























The policies they choose matter. The governance




54 posted on 11/12/2002 1:27:10 PM PST by Man of the Right
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To: Man of the Right
I expect the same level of righteous indignation over Curves For Women. Which, according to their web site, "is the world's largest fitness center franchise". No men! Their like Hitler, Stalin, George Wallace!
55 posted on 11/12/2002 1:50:17 PM PST by Lost Highway
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To: Lost Highway
Their=They're
56 posted on 11/12/2002 1:51:01 PM PST by Lost Highway
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To: Man of the Right
Excluding them from the Augusta is unfair and probably illegal.

I would expect that Ms. Burk would have filed the lawsuit long ago were that the case.

So if golfing ability is the criterion for membership, Suzy Whaley goes in and Hootie hands out golf balls. If it's wealth, the Walton sisters go in and Hootie parks cars. If it's social position, Liz Windsor goes in and Hootie starts using deodorant. And if it's power, Nancy Pelosi has more than Hootie, hateful as that thought is.

Sorry, but you neither get to choose the criteria nor get to judge who is the more qualified.

57 posted on 11/12/2002 1:55:05 PM PST by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: PBRSTREETGANG
You are a hoot. You are a Masters member and I'm not.

Care to make a bet?

I say the Augusta National will admit a female member before the end of 2003.

Or if it doesn't, the Augusta National is going to be in federal court by mid-2004 and before the 2004 elections a federal judge will be setting membership policy effectively, not the board.













58 posted on 11/12/2002 2:04:53 PM PST by Man of the Right
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To: Man of the Right
You are a hoot. You are a Masters member and I'm not.

Nope, I'm not either. Isn't that unfair?

Care to make a bet? I say the Augusta National will admit a female member before the end of 2003.

Nah, I won't take the bet. The members may well decide that that course of action is in their best interest.

Or if it doesn't, the Augusta National is going to be in federal court by mid-2004 and before the 2004 elections a federal judge will be setting membership policy effectively, not the board.

That would be yet another unfortunate step taken by our overreaching government and overly activist judiciary. Women ar not prohibited from playing at Augusta nor are they prohibited from competing in the Masters tournament.

59 posted on 11/12/2002 2:24:58 PM PST by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: Man of the Right
They will never prove keeping out women is illegal. My point about golf prowess goes to who wants to watch the tournament. In the end, that will win out. The Masters is a collection of the finest golfers in the world. Who is the biggest audience for this tournament? I would argue that it's men. Men, in general, could care less about the membership policy at Augusta. I guess you're an exception. I haven't met a single person who's in favor of these pressure tactics to admit women. They'll put the tournament on TV without sponsors, because as I said in previous posts, these guys at Augusta are Billionaires. They can afford it. Why does it matter how big your particular private club gets? The members at Augusta aren't asking for anything. They get no governments handouts. It isn't West Point - to borrow your words - founded by white protestant males of English descent. They can't discriminate against women there because it's government funded. That was a wrong that has been fixed. But this is a private club for golfers. This isn't war. This isn't critical to the national interest. Never mind the point of why someone would want to be a member of a club in which the members don't want you.
Your examples of Stanford, and the NYPL are bogus. Again, both receive public funds. They can't bar anyone. Stanford could up and decide they only want men as long as they forgo any public money and are willing to accept the consequences. Augusta is willing to accept the consequences. If PGA players buckle to the public pressure of a small interest group, and don't play the tournament, that's unfortunate. They'll regret it in my opinion. With that all being said, this is America, and I respect your opinion. All except invoking Hitler's name to somehow prove your point. Give me a break.
60 posted on 11/12/2002 7:12:44 PM PST by strider44
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To: Man of the Right
Freedom of association is the 'law'. If women, as you say, control 55% of the capital in the US why do they not build their own Augusta National? Why?

This is simply another in a long list of attacks on men by a rabid fringe element. You are really offended by men with the BALLS(and ca$h) to do what you cannot, stand on princable!...*smile

You may think you are a 'man of the right', I don't.

61 posted on 11/12/2002 7:48:30 PM PST by glasseye
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To: buffyt
The analogy is apparently lost on you.

Boy Scouts=private organization
Augusta National=private organization

SCOTUS ruled that, since the Boy Scouts are a private orgainization, they had a right to set their own admittance policies. The same applies for Augusta.

62 posted on 11/14/2002 5:52:31 PM PST by nonliberal
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