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Uncle Ali: Palestinian Moslem, Gnostic, Nazi, Mentor and Friend
astrologyforthepeople.com ^ | October 01, 2002 | Holger Werner

Posted on 11/17/2002 3:47:17 AM PST by Destro

KNOW YOUR ENEMY WARNING: THE FOLLOWING POST IS INTENDED TO HIGHLIGHT THE LINK BETWEEN ISLAM, NAZISM and ISLAM'S ORIGIN WITHIN THE GNOSTIC-OCCULT HERESY

The author of this autobiography Holger Werner is clearly an occultist Neo-Nazi with radical Islamic roots and his views of history are evilly skewed by this fact. He praises as true the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" for example and the Arabs this month of Ramadan are airing that proven garbage as a multi part miniseries in the Arab world. Please remember I post this only to illuminate the threat to Western civilization posed by these groups and I hope my effort at an explanation for posting it is satisfactory

Uncle Ali: Palestinian Moslem, Gnostic, Nazi, Mentor and Friend

Uncle Ali's Story

So then, what was his story? He, as I already mentioned, was born in Palestine where he also grew up. As a young man he had gone to Cairo, Egypt where he went to University to study German literature, language and Physics. Being a Moslem from birth, he developed a very strong interest in Sufism which led him to Gnosticism and the "Occult," such as Kabalism and other disciplines which I forgot. Being initiated into a group which he called "The Gnostic Brotherhood," he attained first hand knowledge of Gnosticism in Cairo. Of course, when he spoke to me about this, I had not even heard the words "Gnostic" and "Gnosticism." Thus, it is difficult to recollect in my mind the exact words he used or even the concepts of Gnosticism he explained to me so patiently. What I did get though is more of a broad base of my own perceptions of it and an opening of my understanding about how the world "functions." He spoke not only of the Spiritual level, but also how it intertwines with political ideas and our human existence here on earth. In the course of his "teachings" which he transmitted to me through lengthy conversations over a three year period, often interrupted by customers browsing through his books, his own life story was perhaps the most fascinating aspect I could grasp and remember.

Gnostic Initiate and Arab Language Nazi Propagandist

Being a Gnostic "Germanophile" with the ability to speak and read the German language fluently, he was referred to the German "Abwehr," the Secret Service, operating in Cairo by one of his professors. Having made the mental connection of certain aspects of German National Socialism with Gnosticism and other spiritual disciplines, he was deeply intrigued by this political movement and eager to find out more. After a short time of meetings with agents, he was recruited and send to Berlin for training and indoctrination. I must mention here, that since the nazi era and everything connected to it was a "taboo" subject, at home and school, I had very little knowledge about it at age nine, when he first talked to me about it. But having seen pictures of "Hitler-Youth" in surviving albums and magazines, I was very intrigued and more than ready to learn more about it. To tell the truth, I was not only intrigued but fascinated to the point where I felt a pull and inner connection to this era which extends to this day. In other words, I felt drawn to it like a moth to the light. More than anything else, at such a young age, I loved the pageantry and marshal music which gave me goose-bumps of delight. At a later age, perhaps it was 1954, I went to a "Troedler Laden," a second hand store, owned by a big Jewish man with the name of "Levy" over the door, where I found a whole collection of brown colored "Telefunken" records with marshal music and songs of the nazi era. But that is way ahead of my story.

Meeting Nazi Gnostics and Socialists Nazis:

Otto Rahn, Ahnenerbe, Vogelsang and Wilfried von Owen

In Berlin, uncle Ali was trained and taught in everything connected to being a good spy for the "Abwehr" and he also was gradually introduced to high-ranking national socialists who had connections to Alfred Rosenberg and the SS branch known under the name "Ahnenerbe." It seems that he was just the man they wanted and needed in this scholarly branch of the SS. Thus he became an officer in the SS wearing civilian clothes and given the opportunity to attend the Ordensburg "Vogelsang" for further training. After he finished his training at "Vogelsang," he was sent to Bavaria to the Ordensburg "Sonthofen," for more training and eventually to another place in Bavaria, outside of Munich (I forgot the name of the town), for studies with the SS-branch "Ahnenerbe." In the course of his research there he met many important figures of the nazi elite. One of his close friends there was Wilfried von Owen and Otto Rahn. Wilfried von Owen was very interested in the teachings and history of Islam and the Islamic nations, which, of course, brought Ali with his Moslem background to his attention. He met Otto Rahn through his Gnostic research and articles which he wrote for the "Ahnenerbe." At the time I had never heard of Otto Rahn, but I remember distinctly uncle Ali talking about him with affection. He also showed me a book he had which was written by Otto Rahn titled "Lucifers Hofgesind in Europa," ( translated "Lucifer's Court in Europe"). Uncle Ali talked to me about Otto Rahn and the Cathars-Albigensians. It struck me then how serious and reverend he became when he talked about these "Johannite Gnostics" and how their teachings related to certain aspects of National Socialisism. Becoming slightly agitated he told me that there were various factions within the National Socialist movement who waged a bitter and hateful war from within for supremacy, and that the movement had come under the control of a faction allied with the big corporations and thus international Capitalism through the blunders of Adolf Hitler and the German Officers Corps which consisted mainly of "titled" aristocrats. The spiritual faction around Rudolf Hess and Carl Haushofer was not only in official disfavor, but completely powerless by 1938. Himmler's SS had risen gradually to a position of control with Himmler's perverse racist beliefs and pagan occultism infiltrating the government and power structure through denunciations and murder. He told me that it was Heinrich Himmler, more than anybody else, who had destroyed the socialist ideals of national socialism through his secret alliances with international corporations and his extreme and perverse racist ideology. It was Himmler, he said, who was really in control of the nazi government after 1938 and who allowed the corporate interests, who had once financed the movement, to control and direct all affairs of the State, like a secret government behind the official government. Hitler was completely under the thumb of these capitalist manipulators and feared for his life from Himmler's SS. In fact, the whole movement, everybody of the Third Reich's elite, knew what was going on but powerless to change what was happening because of their fear of Himmler's SS. Himmler, a ruthless, spineless bureaucrat, soulless and merciless, controlled everything and no one dared to resist his power.

Internal Struggles Against Himmler's SS and Otto Rahn's Suicide

Needless to say, uncle Ali despised the SS and Heinrich Himmler although he himself was an officer in the SS. He, when he realized that the SS had nothing to do with the ideals of national socialism and it's Gnostic roots, became completely disaffected. But knowing what his position was, especially as a Palestinian SS Officer, he was rightfully afraid for his life and thus remained in their ranks. He spoke to me extensively of the spiritual and socialist factions within the Third Reich and about their clandestine meetings to further their agenda in secret through a "brotherhood" network of like-minded officials in the government. Speaking of Otto Rahn, he told me how this gentle scholar and avowed Cathar hated and despised the SS and Himmler as well as the whole course the national socialist movement had taken. Being neither a racist nor a ruthless person by nature, Otto Rahn decided that he wanted as little as possible to do with the SS and the nazi movement and resigned his commission as an SS Officer after a forced stint at a Concentration camp ordered by Himmler to "toughen him up." When this gentle Cathar scholar realized where National Socialism was heading through betrayal from within, Otto Rahn decided to commit suicide in the surroundings of his beloved alpine mountains in 1939. Alfred Rosenberg, the author of "The myth of the twentieth century," once considered the official party philosopher, was also horrified by the course the National Socialist movement had taken, but chose to remain in his position hoping for a change in the power structure which, of course, never came about.

Heinrich Himmler is the Enemy!

Heinrich Himmler, whom the population called by the derogatory name "Reichsheini," was in control until the end in 1945, when Hitler finally realized that Heinrich Himmler was his "Judas" and the ultimate cause of the collapse of the Third Reich. Too late did he finally realize that he had surrendered the ideals of National Socialism to his capitalist enemies with the by Himmler instigated and executed murder of his old party comrades in June 1934, of whom Ernst Rohm and Gregor Strasser are only two well known names out of hundreds. Too late did he realize, as the flaming inferno of Berlin and the advancing Soviet army, gave him no other choice than to commit suicide, that this non-entity of a man, this little bureaucrat had not only out-smarted him through lies secret manipulations and flattery, but also destroyed the German people as a nation and the future of European culture. Thus opening the gates wide to the eventual establishment of a One World Government by his capitalist "sponsors" behind the scenes.

Uncle Ali told me in so many words, that the atrocities committed by the SS in the "Einsatzgruppen" and the Concentration camps was all the work of Himmler and his influence over the whole movement. He said that Himmler was always on the secret payroll of powerful German and allied financial interests who used him to bring about the collapse of the National Socialist movement from within through outrageous racism and atrocities which would create a pretext, after Germany's collapse, for these atrocities to be used as an example and reminder, a warning, if you will, for the world to abandon any form of national identity in disgust and willingly submit to the establishment of an eventual One World government under the auspices of the United Nations which would later have to give way to the dictatorship of the One World Cabal.

The Protocols of Zion

Through his research, he told me, he had come to the definite conclusion that the "Protocols of Zion," were exactly what they claimed to be and that it was the outline of what has happened and what was going to happen. Naturally, I was much too young to understand everything he told me especially as I had never heard about the "Protocols," but his words are with me today as then in 1951 and I remember him telling me to get hold of them when I got bigger and read them very carefully as everything told there was going to happen in the near future. He especially admonished me to heed their implications and watch as a "neutral" bystander as everything would gradually unfold just as outlined and described in these "Protocols." No matter what is said about them and who said it, he said, if they deny the Protocols as forgery or nonsense, know that these people are either ignorant or part of the cabal.

The Zionist - Nazi Axis

In 1940 uncle Ali was asked to come to Berlin and become part of Goebbels' propaganda outreach to the middle east. He was to broadcast Arabic language commentaries and programs to the Arab world. This was done in a "half-hearted" and lackluster manner because of Zionist-Nazi cooperation with the aim to settle Palestine with Jewish refugees from Germany and Eastern Territories. He told me that he knew, from his contacts in the SS, that Zionists and the SS were working together as they had much in common as to their racist ideologies and worldview, and that the concentration camps were to serve as collection points for forced expulsion of Jews to Palestine, since the Zionists were painfully aware of the fact that most European Jews had no interest to settle there. At the same time Germany was also promising the "mufti" of Jerusalem support in the Palestinian cause. Thus Germany's dealings with Palestine were duplicitous and half-hearted. The SS under Himmler preferred the Khazar Zionists to the true Semites in the Arab countries and Palestine because of their similar racist-fascist ideologies. He also told me that the SS left the Jewish concentration camp inmates under Zionist rule and control by their own "capos" and that they were the ones who so harshly abused their fellow Jews. Of course, he said, that things gradually changed as the war progressed and resources and supplies dwindled because of Allied bombings and food as well as medical supplies became scarce. Diseases ravaged the camps and people began to die by the thousands. Also, Zionist groups in America and England were agitating against Germany which the German government perceived as duplicity. The fact is that, just as in National Socialism, the Zionist movement was splintered and split in opinion of how to bring about the planned nation of Israel on Palestinian territory. Eastern European Zionists were in favor of cooperation with German National Socialism, even to the point of willingness to fight with Germany during the second World War to insure German victory since Germany had promised, if not guaranteed, that Israel would be established for the Jews after the war was over. The Zionists in America and England had also reached agreements with the governments of the United States and England to establish Israel after the war and proposed to use concentration camp horrors as propagandized by the Allied powers to manipulate world wide sympathy for the establishment of a Jewish state on Palestinian soil. In the struggle between the various factions of the Zionist movement, it was the pro-Allied one which won, to the detriment of the German people who, to this day, have to pay emotionally and financially for it.

(Excerpt) Read more at astrologyforthepeople.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Israel; Russia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: balkans; islam
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Islam's origins among the Gnostic heresies of the late Roman Empire is an under explored item.

In addition to this article by the German/Arab Holger Werner (I can't figure out which) whose web site praises Hitler, Hess, The Nazi worshiping occult Process Church and the Nazi party (he damns Himmler as the real villain of the Holocaust, Hitler was a victim of Himmler and Hess- a Gnostic saint, was out to save the world from Himmler and the fooled Hitler, etc.).

You will note that the authors uncle (if claims he makes are true) was an Arab Palestinian SS officer. Islam and Nazism's Gnostic origins and views are linked.

The links to the Nazi's the Muslims and to the Gnostic occult which has always been the great threat to Europe from the Bogomils/Cathars to Islam to Secular Socialism:

Read also on FreeRepublic: The Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed by the Catholic historian Hilaire Belloc.

"EN TOUTO NIKA"

1 posted on 11/17/2002 3:47:17 AM PST by Destro
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To: Destro

The Arab/Muslim Nazi Connection Bosnian Moslems recruited the Nazi SS by Yasser Arafat's 'Uncle'

Himmler's Bosnian Division the Waffen - SS Handschar Division 1943-1945

HIMMLER WAS THEIR DEFENDER The above headline appeared in Sarajevo Muslim's weekly magazine, "Svijet". The original, "Bosnian" language headline was "Himmler ih je stitio."

2 posted on 11/17/2002 3:55:35 AM PST by Destro
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To: *balkans; GOPcapitalist; jimkress; The_Reader_David; LiteKeeper; crazykatz; happygrl; ...

The Arab/Muslim Nazi Connection Bosnian Moslems recruited the Nazi SS by Yasser Arafat's 'Uncle'

Himmler's Bosnian Division the Waffen - SS Handschar Division 1943-1945

HIMMLER WAS THEIR DEFENDER The above headline appeared in Sarajevo Muslim's weekly magazine, "Svijet". The original, "Bosnian" language headline was "Himmler ih je stitio."

3 posted on 11/17/2002 3:56:23 AM PST by Destro
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To: Destro
... The fact is that, just as in National Socialism, the Zionist movement was splintered and split in opinion of how to bring about the planned nation of Israel on Palestinian territory. Eastern European Zionists were in favor of cooperation with German National Socialism, even to the point of willingness to fight with Germany during the second World War to insure German victory since Germany had promised, if not guaranteed, that Israel would be established for the Jews after the war was over ...
Congratulations. This "article" is perhaps the vilest, most horrendous, most grimmly anti-Jewish historical revisionism I have ever, ever seen posted on FR.

You must be very, very proud of yourself.
4 posted on 11/17/2002 4:25:13 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Asclepius
You did not read my warning did you? It's at the top and they are my own words:

The author of this autobiography Holger Werner is clearly an occultist Neo-Nazi with radical Islamic roots and his views of history are evilly skewed by this fact. He praises as true the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" for example and the Arabs this month of Ramadan are airing that proven garbage as a multi part miniseries in the Arab world. Please remember I post this only to illuminate the threat to Western civilization posed by these groups and I hope my effort at an explanation for posting it is satisfactory.

Apology in order by you to me I think.

5 posted on 11/17/2002 4:30:03 AM PST by Destro
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Asclepius
This article is exactly what nazi-muslims think. Posting it is to inform us of their warped evil views not an endorsement. How can one understand a threat without knowing its wared views?

THIS WHAT THE MUSLIM ENEMY THINKS AND WE SHOULD KNOW IT.

Hide your head in the sand if you want.

7 posted on 11/17/2002 4:35:05 AM PST by Destro
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To: Asclepius
This article is exactly what nazi-muslims think. Posting it is to inform us of their warped evil views not an endorsement of them. How can one understand a threat without knowing its wared warped views?

THIS WHAT THE MUSLIM ENEMY THINKS AND WE SHOULD KNOW IT.

Hide your head in the sand if you want.

8 posted on 11/17/2002 4:36:44 AM PST by Destro
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To: Destro
... Posting it is to inform us of their warped evil views not an endorsement ...
Your alibi contradicts itself. Accepting a link between these groups or belief systems--as you claim--means accepting the author's claims on their face. Which means you accept his claims on their face.
9 posted on 11/17/2002 4:40:27 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Destro
Ugly stuff, but it's necessary to know about what goes on in the minds of dangerous crazies.

Thanks for taking the trouble to post it.
10 posted on 11/17/2002 4:48:52 AM PST by tictoc
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To: Asclepius
What are you mentally deficient? And if I post from the Koran where Allah directs his followers to kill the unbelievers to show the nature of the enemy does that mean I endorse the friggin Koran? How else can I show the nature of the enemy?
11 posted on 11/17/2002 4:50:09 AM PST by Destro
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: tictoc; Asclepius
Thank you. Maybe you could explain it to Asclepius. I hope it is clear posting these views is not an endorsement.

I found a first hand account of a Muslim link to Nazis and to the Gnostics/New Age movement, and I thought it was worth seeing how the evil is linked.

13 posted on 11/17/2002 4:56:19 AM PST by Destro
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: dennisw
Dude, thanks.
15 posted on 11/17/2002 4:57:21 AM PST by Destro
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To: Destro
... What are you mentally deficient? And if I post from the Koran where Allah directs his followers to kill the unbelievers to show the nature of the enemy does that mean I endorse the friggin Koran? How else can I show the nature of the enemy? ...
Posting from the Koran to make your case would have perfectly legitimate. But you didn't do that. And you miss the distinction, and it is a critical distinction. The article you posted bases its claims about the so-called relationships among the groups that you want to say are related on grounds of Nazi-Zionist collaboration, on grounds of concentration camps ravaged by disease instead of Zyklon B and gas ovens, on the notion that the Nazis were simply the good-hearted, mis-guided dupes of Himmler, on the notion that RACE is the determining factor in world history. For you to buy into the one notion, you have to buy into the other.

If you deny the authors grounds, you deny the author's claims, in which case you deny your own claims, so why bother posting the article? Find other, more factual grounds to make your claim, or simply admit that it was your intention to post white-power-identity propaganda on FR in the guise of an anti-Muslim rant.
16 posted on 11/17/2002 4:58:53 AM PST by Asclepius
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: Asclepius
Before you say stupid things you ought to check out Destro's posting history. This is how you know what someone is up to. You obviously failed to do this before going into kamikazi mode. At this point I don't care about your self-justifications. You are dead wrong about him.

GOOD-BYE!
18 posted on 11/17/2002 5:02:27 AM PST by dennisw
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To: dennisw
... You are dead wrong about him ...
Apparently not, as Destro himself admits.
19 posted on 11/17/2002 5:04:42 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Asclepius
I do not buy the author's premise. It only shows that he and others like him do accept that view as fact. Is not the Koran the ravings of a Gnostic influences lone nut? That you can think otherwise is your problem.

The Protocols of Zion was a forgery cooked up by the Czar's secret police to defame Jews. It failed to be accepted in Russia but gained acceptance in post WW1 Germany/Austria. Kaiser Billy himself paid for its publication and via the Nazis it has spread to the Arabs.

20 posted on 11/17/2002 5:11:54 AM PST by Destro
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To: dennisw
Some people don't want to see how the evil of the Islamists and the Nazis have a long and interlinked evil origin.
21 posted on 11/17/2002 5:16:47 AM PST by Destro
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: Destro
I think you made a very important point.

One of the many things that unnerves me about Islam is that I think it has the potential to be very popular in the US among New Age religion folks, many of whom are very Gnostic in tendency. And anti-Semitism (even among the New Age religionists who are of Jewish descent) goes hand in glove with it, because you cannot accept the revelation of God and the Law that is fundamental to Judaism and accept the Gnostic world view at the same time.
23 posted on 11/17/2002 5:19:26 AM PST by livius
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To: dennisw
Cool it.
24 posted on 11/17/2002 5:20:50 AM PST by Admin Moderator
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: livius; dennisw
Exactly!! I was stunned and disgusted at the level of anti-Semetisim involved in these Gnostic movements mixed in with anti-Christian (mostly directed at Catholics) as I did research. Gnostic is the proper way to define the new age/wicca movements, IMHO. The Gnostic movement was not unknown to the Nazis and the Gnostics were a heavy influence on emerging Islam. With this post we have a first person account here were all those three elements meet.
26 posted on 11/17/2002 5:24:47 AM PST by Destro
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To: Admin Moderator
Cool it.

Take your own medicine and cool it yourself. You have gone delete crazy.

27 posted on 11/17/2002 5:28:59 AM PST by dennisw
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To: Admin Moderator
Good bye.
28 posted on 11/17/2002 5:29:38 AM PST by dennisw
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To: Destro
With this post we have a first person account here were all those three elements meet.
Yuh-huh. So by your own admission you believe that first person account!--you say so, plainly, unabashedly, without hedge or qualification. That same first person narrative also says that the Holocaust never occurred, that Jews and Nazis collaborated to creat Israel, that RACE is the determining factor in history, that Hilter et al were the misguided, good-hearted dupes of Himmler etc., etc.

You are endorsing this article. What can I reasonably conclude other than that you are white-supremist, historical revisionist?
29 posted on 11/17/2002 5:30:11 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: dennisw
... Good bye ...
That was me, not the moderator going "delete crazy." The moderator was merely responding to my complaints. Please give credit where it is due.
30 posted on 11/17/2002 5:32:02 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Destro
Destro!

This is a lot deeper than the usual Balkans postings.

I find it interesting.  I think it helps explain why Mein Kampf is a big seller in the Arab world.

I hope folks can keep their heads as they read this and not overreact.

31 posted on 11/17/2002 5:33:38 AM PST by Incorrigible
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To: Asclepius
Knock it off.
32 posted on 11/17/2002 5:35:30 AM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: Asclepius
The links are real, even in the mythology these groups develop is invented. Gnostics did influence both the Nazi's and the Muslim faith and the modern new age movements. This posts shows how they are linked by a common belief system or a similar world view that allows fakery like the protocols to be embraced. That is where your ability to reason fails.

For example: Farakahn did a whole routine during the Million Man March on numerology and UFOs. Numerology and UFOs had nothing to do with his brand of Islam's origin. They are just add ons, just like the Gnostic/Muslim acceptance of the Protocols is an add on not linked to their origin but helps sell it. That it helps to sell it means it gets repeated as fact over and over, until it becomes part of their mantra.

33 posted on 11/17/2002 5:36:06 AM PST by Destro
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To: Asclepius
Because your not reasonable or that skilled at analysis. WHat about you, do you accpet the link between Islam and Nazisim? and that their origins are in the Gnostic tradition?
34 posted on 11/17/2002 5:40:23 AM PST by Destro
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To: Destro
... The links are real, even in the mythology these groups develop is invented ...
You're changing your position, somewhat. Now you want to say that in some vague, nebulous way, these groups are linked by a common mythology--this is a claim too weak and too general to argue against, because everything can be linked to gnosticism, from the New Age movement to the original Star Wars trilogy to the Golden Dawn to early Protestantism (Bogomils, Waldenses, Anabaptists etc.) etc., etc. In which case, you don't even need to cite this article to make your case. My question then becomes, why?--instead of appearing to endorse the narrative of a white-supremist, why not simply make your case on stronger, more reasonable grounds?
35 posted on 11/17/2002 5:42:31 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Incorrigible
Thanks! All those useless college degrees need an outlet.

I hope folks can keep their heads as they read this and not overreact.

The problem is few can do so, but enough that matter can.

36 posted on 11/17/2002 5:43:43 AM PST by Destro
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To: Destro
WHat about you, do you accpet the link between Islam and Nazisim?
Certainly not. And if you accept such a link, specifically on the grounds of the article you cite, then all my initial charges against you still stand (e.g. historical revisionism, white supremecy). If you accept the link on other grounds than that's a separate issue I suppose. I>
and that their origins are in the Gnostic tradition?
What do you mean by "gnostic tradition?" It is well documented that the Nazis were influenced by the Theosophists, surely (e.g. the Swastika) etc., etc. And there is ample evidence that the Koran borrows heavily from Gnostic texts extant in later antiquity. But what does that prove, specifically? What is it that you want to say, based on that?
37 posted on 11/17/2002 5:48:08 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Asclepius
I am not changing my position at all. If I helped clarify it to you that is fine (so far it is you and only you). Why post this? Because this article is a second hand account of a first person account of a Palestinian Muslim active in the service of the high SS that touches on the commonality of the Islamo-Facist belief system. You are the only one so far that claims not to see that.
38 posted on 11/17/2002 5:49:30 AM PST by Destro
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To: Destro
Because this article is a second hand account of a first person account of a Palestinian Muslim active in the service of the high SS that touches on the commonality of the Islamo-Facist belief system.
Once again you contradict yourself, and once again we're back to square one: you admit your complicity with a racist, historical revisionist. Regard: You do believe the author's narrative!--the so-called "Muslim in the service of the high SS"; that same narrative stipulates that the Holocaust never happened, that Jews and Nazis collaborated to create the Israeli state, that those good-heared, misguided Nazis (Hitler et al!) were duped by Himmler etc., etc. You cannot accept the truth of the account without accepting the truth of the account--it's one or the other.

Thank you for finally, flatly admitting your endorsement of the "truthfulness" of the author's account.

Everything I said before still stands etc.
39 posted on 11/17/2002 5:56:10 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Asclepius; dennisw
I guess you did not bother to read my link to Catholic historian Hilaire Belloc?

Want another link? Fine

Neo-Nazis Find They Share Views of Militant Muslim Groups on U.S., Israel

40 posted on 11/17/2002 5:58:37 AM PST by Destro
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To: Destro
Want another link? Fine
I don't understand. Will a link somehow serve as an alibi for you to endorse the views of racists and historical revisionists? Please explain.
41 posted on 11/17/2002 6:03:21 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Asclepius
Your using circular logic and it fails you. Showing a link to a beleif system does not mean an endorsement of that beleif. But it does show that their is an ideological kinship within the Islam and the Nazis based on Gnosticisim.
42 posted on 11/17/2002 6:04:20 AM PST by Destro
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To: Asclepius
What can I reasonably conclude other than that you are white-supremist, historical revisionist?

No, Destro's not any of the above. But based on your conduct, one can reasonably conclude a whole lot about you, none of which you'd like to read. Keep digging that hole deeper, you must be getting close to China.

43 posted on 11/17/2002 6:07:48 AM PST by xJones
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To: xJones
Honored by your defense of me, xJones. You did not have to but thank you. I just proved to myself why one should not argue with fools.
44 posted on 11/17/2002 6:10:48 AM PST by Destro
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To: Destro
"THIS WHAT THE MUSLIM ENEMY THINKS AND WE SHOULD KNOW IT"

You are absolutely correct Destro.

Hiding our heads in the sand to believe only what we want to believe and to teach only our own version of events leads to neither an understanding of our enemies nor the context of the world we share with them.

Like all "versions" of events, there are things to learn in making ourselves aware of the "version" described in this article.

Anyone too weak, too lazy, or too fearful to pick through the ashes of another's twisted logic will remain forever buried by their own chosen version of events and therefore blind to whatever truth is real. To be sure, the story told in this article, and the perverted interpretation of events is wrong in the end. But along the way are tidbits and details that will never be learned in any other format. Some of these little tidbits are made no less true by the mere fact that Dan Rather would never report them and they are certainly no less true by the fact that they make us uncomfortable. Other details are certainly outright lies, but there is a valuable lesson in knowing what lies your enemy holds to be true.

The toughest part is determining which is which. Some people would rather not invest the effort and they might prefer to be told what to believe.

Hang in there and ignore those who would rather we listen only to their own version of events.

45 posted on 11/17/2002 6:11:22 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Incorrigible
I find it interesting. I think it helps explain why Mein Kampf is a big seller in the Arab world.

Check out my link in #40.

46 posted on 11/17/2002 6:12:54 AM PST by Destro
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To: Destro
... But it does show that their is an ideological kinship within the Islam and the Nazis based on Gnosticisim ...
Hmmm. Once again I managed to scare you away from your stronger claim and back to your weaker claim, the claim of some vaue and nebulous link. (You must be very limber. Or does your neck hurt from all these sudden changes of position?)

Here is my point: the article you posted does not show this (whatever "this" happens to be at the moment, because your description of "this" keeps changing): it is pure fiction--fantasy, all of it, the fantasies of a foul and loathsome individual. To suggest otherwise is buy into the author's foul and loathsome claims. If you want to make such a case, find other, more historically verifiable, factual grounds.
47 posted on 11/17/2002 6:13:05 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Asclepius
"Accepting a link between these groups or belief systems--as you claim--means accepting the author's claims on their face"

and to deny that there was a link is to believe a lie.

To educate yourself and to attempt to educate others is always an effort to be praised. Education on topics such as this will never make one comfortable.

On this topic, comfort comes only by hiding and pretending to believe a fable. Personally, I'd prefer to know what the enemy believes and what the small facts are which those beliefs are based on.

48 posted on 11/17/2002 6:15:14 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Asclepius
"or simply admit that it was your intention to post white-power-identity propaganda on FR in the guise of an anti-Muslim rant"

I think possibly you're being just a bit too defensive on this point.

This statement looks to me like a case of projecting.

49 posted on 11/17/2002 6:18:54 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Lloyd227
Thank you. I try and post from the enemies camp of late. The news we get is unreadable these days. The news does not even call al-Qaeda terrorists. It's like not calling Nazis evil butchers if WW2 was being fought now.

Americans voted in Republicans in record numbers because we have a war on we want to win, not a police action or a social problem that can be fixed with candy drops and third world hand outs.

We are facing an evil enemy with an evil belief system.

50 posted on 11/17/2002 6:18:56 AM PST by Destro
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