The Free State Project: A Project for Idaho

Idaho Observer via Sierra Times ^ | 11/16/02 | Hari Heath

[wimpycat]

You really are screwed aren't you? The first thing you think of is the horror of repealing seatbelt laws, now you're saying that humans can't go on after a natural disaster without FEMA?

Hey, listen, I'm not the one yearning for an Idahoan Utopia, it's folks like you. I was simply trying to illustrate the problems that arise from making so radical a change from what currently exists. If you guys can pull it off, more power to you, but you have yet to offer any real-world solutions to very real scenarios your Free State Idaho is likely to encounter. You're worse than the Democrats at articulating problems but failing to offer feasible solutions. Since you think what we've got is so f**ked up, then it's up to you, not me, to offer an alternative. So OK, Smartass, here's your chance to think practically:

You live in Free State Idaho. Your legislative infiltrators have sucessfully repealed state income tax and shun all federal assistance (because of the tyrannical strings attached). All farming is unsubsidized. Auto and medical insurance is strictly optional. Ten years from now, a natural disaster (severe drought, a chemically resistant potato blight, floods, what have you) threatens the bulk of the state's potato crop for the year. What systems and resources do you have in place to protect the state's economy for the short-term and the long-term? Consider all the problems resulting from one bad potato year, such as bankruptcy and foreclosures for farmers, unemployment of workers related to potato farming, transport, processing, etc. Don't forget to consider all the ramifications of unsubsidized farmers competing with farmers in other states who are subsidized. Consider whether or not your Free State has the Constitutional authority to refuse farm subsidies or prevent subsidies for farmers in your state who wish to receive them. Don't forget to consider all Constitutional authority given to Congress and to the various states. Remember to detail where and how Idaho obtains revenue, absent state income tax and federal aid. Explain in detail if and how Idaho could exempt its residents from Federal income tax, Social Security taxes, Medicare/Medicaid taxes, etc. while remaining within the bounds of the Constitution.

FWIW, I'm not so much interested in the details of your plans, as I am in knowing whether or not you even have a plan...one that actually works.

[watcher1]

[watcher1]

Archy
Lets make this work!

[wimpycat]

The primary goal is to first achieve a majority in the legislature and then work towards filling the other branches of government. Just as many formerly “democratic” politicians in Idaho have infiltrated and became “republicans” to join with the party in power, FSP members can infiltrate the two dominant parties and take them over or support the various 3rd parties and raise them to greater political standing. Are there 20,000 republican and democratic activists in Idaho now? Imagine what 20,000 FSP members, dedicated to liberty, could do to the dominant parties at the local and state level.

Assuming you can achieve a majority in the first place, what do you do if the voters don't happen to like your agenda and vote you out next election? Are you planning on running like regular Republicans and only then revealing your true agenda after you get elected?

Do you have a contingency plan in place if you encounter major resistance from the majority of voters?

What's your long-term plan to "soften" the voters so that they will be receptive to your ideas? What would a typical campaign slogan be?

[AAABEST]

I'm not a porcupine, yet. I just find your pathetic, silly bleating about the virtues of seatbelt enforcement and the wonders of FEMA to be nausiating.

I'm glad your type is a relatively new phenomena, or those who built this country would have stayed home just in case there was a mudslide or the possibility of someone falling off a wagon.

Jefferson: Gee we can't found a free nation, where would we be without the graces of the King George?

You're what I call a "lifer", completely gone. The only thing you're useful for is sucking my family's resources and ensuring that free will in America is a thing of the past.

If you guys can pull it off, more power to you....

That's a lie. You don't want anything of the type to succeed, in any fashion whatsoever.

[u-89]

This Free State thing has given me new hope when I had resigned myself to accepting the sad fate this nation faces ie. total economic collapse because socialism doesn't work and the inevitable can't be put off forever or a 1984 type high tech police state, or both. This project however is very doable and not just in a drunken dorm room bull session. I have not yet set my name to the membership rolls as I take commitments seriously. Not that I wouldn't go but the question is if I could make the move within a year when the time comes. Being self-employed it is easier for me than others who would have to find employement but I have to rebuild my assets after a very bad year and a failed venture or two. Have two projects in the works now. When they start to show viability I will sign up.

P.S. I have been talking this up with people and there is strong interest. It seems to me if the initial settlers could make a solid start a flood of like minded folks would follow and success would be guarenteed.

[wimpycat]

Every time you heap personal insults at me is further evidence that you have no plan! but try to conceal that lack from the rest of the world.

You're what I call a "lifer", completely gone. The only thing you're useful for is sucking my family's resources and ensuring that free will in America is a thing of the past.

If I'm useful for nothing and sucking your family's resources (what is it your family produces that I steal?) and depriving you of your liberty, why don't you kill me? I'd bet you wouldn't mind blowing a hole in whoever stood in your way--after all, you stand for freedom while my "type" sucks the life out of true patriots such as yourself, according to you. I'm also "dead weight" according to what you said on an earlier post. So why not kill me? You can't imprison me, because I've broken no law. And I'll continue to vote in the people you accuse of violating the Constitution. The only way to stop me is to kill me--and my "type".

Jefferson: Gee we can't found a free nation, where would we be without the graces of the King George?

We already live in a free nation--are you planning on a new revolution? Do you advocate overthrow of the U.S. government, or are you willing to wait until you can convince voters to vote out the current system and vote in another one?

[watcher1]

You can drop dead for all I care.
You can disrupt this thread all you like.
BUT
The idea of the FSP is going to grow by leaps and bounds.
It's going to happen.
Get use to it

[u-89]

what do you do if the voters don't happen to like your agenda and vote you out next election?

The idea is to find a state with a populous that already has a large number of liberty minded individuals. They could be Republicans, conservatives, libertarians, independents or anything else. There are a lot of people, regular folks who are not registered to vote as they think their vote doesn't matter because we're screwed no matter who wins. There are more of these people out there than you may realize. They have a "just leave me a lone" attitude and would enthusiastically vote for the ideals expressed by the Free State Project and many would vote with their feet. I live in NJ and people are being taxed out of the state. I know people actively looking for a place to move to. BTW, you talked about seatbelt laws. Around here they have police roadblocks to check and see if your wearing your belt one day, if your registration is ok the next. Do you feel safer when sitting in traffic wating to get a bill of clean health from the police(or a hefty fine)?

[Jerry W. Howard]

I think you missed the point of FSP. It is not to "take over" by force, but to influence the political make-up (including joining with like minded "locals" to effect change.) The existance of military bases should not be a big negative.

Don't forget, military provides a lot of income, and despite the biased views of anti-defense liberals (and extreme isolationist libertarians) the military is largely made up of young men and women who believe they are defending the same ideals we say we expouse.

[u-89]

How do you get the banner to link without a blue edge around it? I have a commercial web site about to open and am going to link to the FSP and I glommed a banner from there site. I uploaded the image to my web space but it didn't work as a link so using netscape composer I right clicked and made it a link which added a blue border. How do you have yours functioning?

[wimpycat]

You didn't answer any of my questions, but that's to be expected, since the questions were practical.

As to your suggestion that I drop dead, etc. I appreciate your concern for your fellow Americans, but the fact is that I, along with millions of other Americans who have their heads screwed on straight, will continue to outvote you.

[Liberty Teeth]

Most important criteria:

Broadband internet coverage in Idaho

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=broadband+internet+in+idaho

[Poohbah]

wimpycat is asking some important questions here. If you're going to the state of Idaho, you are going to have to squarely address one issue that I didn't see mentioned anywhere.

That issue is "water."

The state of Idaho is not blessed with a superabundance of water. Almost all of the water that is "available" (in a purely technical sense) is already claimed for "beneficial use" by the present residents. Additional water will need to be imported at no small expense; merely showing and expecting the water to be there for your use will not win you kudos from your fellow citizens.

[watcher1]

You've got FreepMail

[watcher1]

If you're going to the state of Idaho, ....That issue is "water."

No state has been chosen yet.
I will give you my "gut feeling" on the whole idea.
It won't be 20,000 people. It will be over 500,000

Here's your water

[Poohbah]

Almost all of the states being mooted have this problem, not just Idaho. The ones that do have water also have completely bankrupt economies that will have just as much difficulty absorbing 20,000 people. But you haven't even come close to answering the question.

[u-89]

I don't have freepmail set up, I don't think anyway. Didn't want to get a ton of nasty messages because of dissenting opinions on certain threads. The nasty posts are enough. Mail anything worthy to webmaster@ixnay.biz and don't tell anyone here my address ;^)

[Kevin Curry]

Watching libertarian free staters trying to run a government will be like watching a group of alley cats trying to march in close order drill.

Go for it. It will be amusing if nothing else.

I suspect that as soon as dope laws are eliminated, there will be high-fives all round and most of the free staters will stagger off to do whatever it is they do in private.

[watcher1]

Yes, you are set up for FreepMail
Just go to the main FR page, reload it.
Look in the upper right corner of the page