Posted on 11/23/2002 7:38:12 AM PST by kosta50
NEW YORK, Nov. 22 (JTA) — A Holocaust exhibit at a prestigious art museum in Zagreb is being hailed as a major step forward in Croatia’s willingness to deal honestly with its World War II history. Croatian President Stepan Mesic recently inaugurated the exhibit, entitled “The Courage to Remember,” at the capital’s Mimara Art Museum.
“This is not an exhibition for historians, but one for those who want to revise history,” Mesic said in a speech at the opening. “This is not an exhibition for those who know but for those who do not know, and even more so for those who do not wish to know.”
The exhibition has appeared in 19 different countries since it was created by the Simon Wiesenthal Center in 1988, but this is its first appearance in a post-Communist Eastern European nation.
The Civic Committee for Human Rights, a Zagreb-based NGO that focuses on the recent wars in the Balkans, brought the exhibit to the museum through a grant from the Heinrich Boell Foundation worth nearly $2,000.
Officials hope the exhibit — 40 panels documenting the Holocaust, from the rise of Nazism in 1933 to survivors’ postwar struggles — will travel through Croatia after its stint in Zagreb.
The exhibit’s name “says everything we in Croatia have to be very much aware of, when it comes to our attitude toward history, toward the truth about history,” Mesic said. “Indeed, often one needs courage to remember things past and to admit things that happened. The past can be ugly, and the truth painful.”
The exhibit sparked a small demonstration led by Mladen Schwartz, a Croatian nationalist born to Jewish parents. The motto of the gathering was “Jews out of Croatia.”
Mesic also met with Efraim Zuroff, director of the Simon Wiesenthal Center’s Israel office, who first approached him two years ago about bringing the exhibit to Croatia.
Zuroff encouraged Mesic to initiate a renewed investigation and prosecution of World War II war criminals from Croatia’s wartime Ustasha fascist regime.
They also discussed proposed legislation that will prohibit the exhibition, sale, and use of Ustasha symbols in Croatia. The bill will be presented to the country’s Parliament in coming weeks.
“President Mesic’s leadership role on these issues has been outstanding, and we hope that he will help sponsor additional educational efforts” together with the Wiesenthal Center, Zuroff said.
Some 75 percent of Croatia’s 40,000 Jews were murdered during the Holocaust, most by Croatian collaborators.
Dinko Sakic, who served as one of the commanders of the Jasenovac concentration camp, was convicted in October 1999 of responsibility for the murder of thousands of inmates and sentenced to 20 years in jail, the maximum sentence under Croatian law.
About 85,000 people, including 18,000 Jews, were murdered at Jasenovac, considered the worst Croatian/Ustasha concentration camp.
For a news service to omit even a mention of Serbs as being the primary victims of one of the worst concentration camps and to mention only its Jewish victims is nothing short of deliberate. One can only wonder what sinister motive would a global Jewish news service have to do so.
What would be the reaction of the very same JTA if, for example, someone were to write a story on Auschwiz and only bothered to mention that in that hellhole 21,000 Gypsies were murdered and gased to death, and to leave out even the mention of the Jewish victims, knowing that the vast majority of those killed were Jews, just as the vact majority of those killed in Jasenovas were Serbs?
Well, let me guess. I would venture to say that it would probably be best described as an outrage. Some less than agreeable percpetions of Auschwitz by the Poles are termed an attempt to "Christianize" the place and its historical meaning, thereby diminishing its Jewish character. Never mind the fact that it is really an attempt to "Catolicize" the issue, which is not the same as to "Christianize" it, the fact is that Jewish organizations and individuals get ourtaged at any even unintentional, let alone intentional, alteration of this issue, whether it is to "minimize" or "christinize" the shrine that has become symbolic of predominantly Jewish suffering.
Why, then, did JTA so baltanaly and intentionally no doubt, commit itself to minimize the Serb aspect aspect of Jasenovac by completely eliminating any mention of the Serbs, as a vast majority of those who were exterminated in a place that has rightfully become a symbol of Serbian Holocaust?
What JTA did was despicable and just plain ugly.
Hardly anything on the Canadian television, as a rebuttal to NATO claims,(that I saw). Now, regarding the proposed action in Iraq- re possible warfare, the Canadian television blisters us with all kinds of views. Even then, these views tend to denigrate George Bush.
Bye the bye, we still have not had an update on the "100,000 buried in mass graves" - presumably murdered by the Serbs.
My favourite reposte by a Serbian American net was this.
The last bombing of Belgrade was by the Nazis, in 1941- Now it is NATO.
Firstly, the article is not about the Holocaust but about the exhibit, and half of it is about the content and background of the exhibit:
Officials hope the exhibit — 40 panels documenting the Holocaust, from the rise of Nazism in 1933 to survivors’ postwar struggles — will travel through Croatia after its stint in Zagreb.
Thus, the exhibit is about much, much more than one particular camp in any one country.
Secondly, the article gives extensive quotations to describe the view of the exhibit and the perceptions of Holocaust by the current government. It appears that there is a great deal of denial, which Mesic addressed thus: " This is not an exhibition for those who know but for those who do not know, and even more so for those who do not wish to know.” It is also clear that this is not without foundation: the article reports a demonstration that goes beyond denial by adopting the motto: “Jews out of Croatia.”
We are now at the last fifth of the article. It gives a positive note saying essentially that the current government has taken a moral position of true leadership: “President Mesic’s leadership role on these issues has been outstanding…" As is typical for newspaper articles, it gives the background, statistical data at the end. The third sentence from the end:
Some 75 percent of Croatia’s 40,000 Jews were murdered during the Holocaust, most by Croatian collaborators.
This quantifies the size of the tragedy that befell the Jewish people.
Continuing the positive tone, that the current government does deal with the terrible past, the article cites this fact in the second sentence from the end:
Dinko Sakic, who served as one of the commanders of the Jasenovac concentration camp, was convicted in October 1999…
This is the first mention of a Jasenovac in the article.
Putting the tragedy of the Jewish people into the broader perspective of the suffering inflicted at the time, the article, in its last sentencegives background information on the camp:
About 85,000 people, including 18,000 Jews, were murdered at Jasenovac, considered the worst Croatian/Ustasha concentration camp.
The emphasis of the sentence is on people, and the numbers show clearly that the Jews were a minority of victims in that particular camp. Thus, you have completely misrepresented the article. If anything, you told us a great deal about yourself. To begin, you have no clue about the basic premises of writing. You could not even identify the topic of the article. You attributed a different objective to the article and then criticized it for the failure to achieve that objective. I do not know you and do not know your motives. But what you actually said is the exact pattern of those who yell "Jews out." Firstly, to you every article you see is about the Holocaust; this one was not. Secondly, suppose you were right and the article were poorly written -- why not to say so? Instead, to you it was about "the Jews." All of them. Just to leave us no doubt, you say,
"One can only wonder what sinister motive would a global Jewish news service have to do so..
Oh, I can tell you right away what motives: it's all a part of a vast Jewish conspiracy. Most Jews gather every Friday night and pretend that they are praying. Actually, they first go out and kill a few gentile children to make and then get together and hear reports on the progress of taking over the world.
This is a familiar story to which you have alluded. This is the company you keep.
Please drop pretenses: you are not after the matters of principle. If you were, and if you were a good Christian, you would be deeply ashamed of perpetrating a terrible accusation without a shred of evidence: this is a direct violation of a basic commandment.
Thank G-d that bigotry in people like you is so obvious. It's some others that I worry about.
The article freezes the timeframe. Point is, the 'agression'and 'cleansing' continued with a Germany propped up Croatia and IMO with shamefull support of Dole, Bush 41 and Clinton. Hopefully W is taking a different tact.
Very simple now, 'you are with us or against us'. Serbia's history has been with us, the Islamists are mortal enemies.
The Jews are a "filthy, lying bastard people" bent on world domination through such insidious schemes as the Holocaust ("a money-making invention"), the mass murder of Christian children ("their blood is used for black-magic ceremonies"), and junk food (William Rosenberg, the founder of Dunkin' Donuts, is singled out as a culprit).
See, he is just more courageous to say things in full.
Some people learn fast. I myself, object to the terror bombing of German civilians ). This leaves me open to the suggestion I supported Germany in WW2. No, the Luftwaffe tried ,but missed me.
Have some of Jewish ancestry in Croatia come to hate Jews? Is that the only way they are accepted (as a way of fitting in), or have they been brainwashed?
The Serbs are forgetting the Allied bombing of Belgrade (and other places in Yugoslavia).
...In 1944, as now, U.S. bombers flew out of bases across the Adriatic Sea in Italy."Planes got off the ground for the third day in a row and went to Belgrade, Yugoslavia, to bomb Zemun airdrome there," said the war diary of April 16, 1944, for the 414th Bomb Squadron (Heavy) stationed at Amendola, Italy. "The mission was a complete success with all planes returning to this base."
The 1944 Easter Bombings -- a series of raids around Orthodox Easter -- killed 4,000 -- double the number of civilians who died in a surprise attack on the capital by Nazi Germany three years earlier...
Belgrade's Sava River bridge, built in 1942 by the Nazis to replace an earlier span blown up in 1941 by the retreating Yugoslav army to impede the Nazi advance, was a prime target of the U.S. raids. Yet it survived the April 1944 bombings, while residential areas around it were leveled.
"The bombs were bursting everywhere except on the bridge," remembered Slava Mejavsek, who watched the bombing from a hillside suburb where she and her husband had taken refuge. When her mother reached them after escaping a downtown home that had taken a direct hit, her hair was singed and still smoking from the blast, Mrs. Mejavsek said in a phone interview from her home in Belgrade.
Belgrade residents helped downed U.S. pilots evade Nazi search parties, she recalled. The Yugoslav resistance rescued hundreds of U.S. fliers who were downed by the Germans during the war...
In post #10, there are claims that at the end of WWII a half million Croatian and Muslim troops were massacred. Could they have fielded that many men at the end of WWII? What was the entire Croat and Muslim population at the beginning of WWII? That number seems too great. Do you have info on the actual size of the Croatian and Muslim armies in WWII Yugoslavia?
Since you are new on FR, perhaps it will help you to know that here You are as good as your sources are, otherwise you crash and burn, like many paid propagandists before.
Arguments you have posted can pass for facts among Nazi apologists,but not among Freepers.
1. Croatian Nazi apologists diminish Croatian Nazi past by saying that Croatia was not only Nazi state, that partisans were led by Croatian Communist Tito They also say that 60% of partisans were from the territory of Croatia.Yet, when they accuse Communists for killing 100,000 Nazi Croatians in Bleiburg, they attribute this to Serbs. It can be one way or another, not both. Croatian Tito commanded partisan units that killed Croatian Nazis
2. WWII Croatia was INDEPENDENT Nazi state, Serbia was occupied, under direct Wehrmacht military control.
Jewish population in Serbia was exterminated by the German Nazis and Wehrmacht. During WWII, Zemun (suburb of Belgrade) was annexed by Croatia and Wehrmacht got approval by Croatian Nazi government to set up concentration camp there Belgrade was first Judenrein city in occupied Europe, but it was done by Gestapo. Hiding this fact is an example of NAZI REVISIONISM\ (it is punishable under German law, be careful if you travel to Germany, you may be arrested for such "arguments")
The stamp you mentioned was never in circulation, it was printed for anti semitic exibition prepared by German Nazis in occupied Belgrade.
500,000 troops? Maybe there were 500,000 Nazis in Croatia and Bosnia, but not 500,000 Nazi soldiers, see Feldgrau site
Yugoslavia fought on ALLIES SIDE and Croatia Fought on NAZI side. and provided volunteers for Hitler
Following your logic should U.S. Russia, France, Great Britain also apologize to Nazi Croatia?
>>>>Where, then, is Yugoslavia's monument to the Jews and Croats that their pro-Axis government murdered during WWII, and that their communist government murdered after WWII??? I believe that Yugoslavia has never apologized, or even voiced regret, for their enthusiastic perpetration of attroctities against Jews and Croats, which began even before WWII began.
Somebody once said that Croatians are mighty not because they have no fear, but because they have no shame.
Thank you for demonstrating this to FR readership.
Holocaust revisionist on board (handle: Soprosyne)
During WWII ooficial policy of Nazi Croatia was to exterminate 1/3 of the Serbs, to forcibly convert to RC faith 1/3 and to expell the rest. Nazi Croatia lost the war and the plan was not completed. Anywhere between 460,000 and 700,000 Serbs wer killed, along with 28,000 Gypsies and 32,000 Jews.
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Genocide is a process that develops in eight stages that are predictable but not inexorable. At each stage, preventive measures can stop it. The later stages must be preceded by the earlier stages, though earlier stages continue to operate throughout the process. |
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1. CLASSIFICATION: |
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All cultures have categories to distinguish people into "us and them" by ethnicity, race, religion, or nationality: German and Jew, Hutu and Tutsi. Bipolar societies that lack mixed categories, such as Rwanda and Burundi, are the most likely to have genocide. |
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2. SYMBOLIZATION: |
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We give names or other symbols to the classifications. We name people "Jews" or "Gypsies", or distinguish them by colors or dress; and apply them to members of groups. Classification and symbolization are universally human and do not necessarily result in genocide unless they lead to the next stage, dehumanization. When combined with hatred, symbols may be forced upon unwilling members of pariah groups: the yellow star for Jews under Nazi rule, the blue scarf for people from the Eastern Zone in Khmer Rouge Cambodia. |
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3. DEHUMANIZATION: |
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One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases. Dehumanization overcomes the normal human revulsion against murder. |
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4. ORGANIZATION: |
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Genocide is always organized, usually by the state, though sometimes informally (Hindu mobs led by local RSS militants) or by terrorist groups. Special army units or militias are often trained and armed. Plans are made for genocidal killings. |
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5. POLARIZATION: |
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Extremists drive the groups apart. Hate groups broadcast polarizing propaganda. Laws may forbid intermarriage or social interaction. Extremist terrorism targets moderates, intimidating and silencing the center. |
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6. PREPARATION: |
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Victims are identified and separated out because of their ethnic or religious identity. Death lists are drawn up. Members of victim groups are forced to wear identifying symbols. They are often segregated into ghettoes, forced into concentration camps, or confined to a famine-struck region and starved. |
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7. EXTERMINATION: |
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Extermination begins, and quickly becomes the mass killing legally called "genocide." It is "extermination" to the killers because they do not believe their victims to be fully human. When it is sponsored by the state, the armed forces often work with militias to do the killing. Sometimes the genocide results in revenge killings by groups against each other, creating the downward whirlpool-like cycle of bilateral genocide (as in Burundi). |
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8. DENIAL: |
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Denial is the eighth stage that always follows a genocide. It is among the surest indicators of further genocidal massacres. The perpetrators of genocide dig up the mass graves, burn the bodies, try to cover up the evidence and intimidate the witnesses. They deny that they committed any crimes, and often blame what happened on the victims. They block investigations of the crimes, and continue to govern until driven from power by force, when they flee into exile. There they remain with impunity, like Pol Pot or Idi Amin, unless they are captured and a tribunal is established to try them. |
© 1998 Gregory H. Stanton
Home | Eight Stages of Genocide | Documents | Links
Genocide Watch
P.O. Box 809
Washington, D.C.
20044 USA
Ph. 703-448-0222 Fax 703-448-6665
info@genocidewatch.org
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Have some of Jewish ancestry in Croatia come to hate Jews? Is that the only way they are accepted (as a way of fitting in), or have they been brainwashed?
I don't know Joan what would prompt Mladen Schwarts to take on such a hateful stance, but apaprently Croatia allows such demonstrations of public intolerance, as it does the sale and display of Nazi/Fascist symbols.
In its attempt to cozy up to the West, Coratia has taken a very active role in promoting good relations with its numerically miniscule, but obviously valuable Jewish community of approximately 2,000 people, out of Croatia's almost 5 million population.
In doing so, many Croatians, with some outside help such as Philip Cohen, are trying to rewrite history, and my fear is that gullable editors of various news services such as the one mentioned in my comment, have bought into such lies.
DTA did a marvelous job of replying to the distortions that even recieved thanks from unsuspecting readers.
Jewish Croatians led by Hebrang, Stern, and the Goldsteins led the charge to leave Yugoslavia, and the KOS bombing of the Jewish cemetary was quite transparent.
Croatia is a long way from its WW2 past in relation to the Jews. Croatia's Jews, such as the ones mentioned above, are testament to that. Serb agents tried to foment discord for the obvious propaganda points that could have been the result, but Croatia's Jews saw through it quite quickly, much as they see through Mladen Schwartz.
You missed the point. The problem is that Croatia allows such demonstrations of intolerance as well as sale and display of Nazi/Fascist paraphinelia and symbols.
Whether Mladen Schwartz was born in Belgrade or whether he considers himself Serbian is irrelevant.
The fact is Mladen Schwartz was born in Zagreb in 1947.
My advice to you, since you signed up 3 days ago is: stop lying!
As for the sale of Ustasha memorabilia, that's on it's way out.
Are they still selling pics of Arkan in Belgrade?
Stop smearing the Croats, I don't smear the Serbs. I lost too much on both sides, too many friends.
Who cares if I signed up 3 days ago, does that invalidate what I have to say?
Dispaproving of Ustashas is smearing Croatians? I can see where this is leading.
Not even my mother's sister and brother-in-law, who were both in Jasenovac in 1944 believe the ridiculously inflated numbers. My aunt and uncle were there, who in your family was there?
So, what were they doing -- keeping score? How would they know how many people were in the camp when that camp was operating for a minimum of 2 years prior to them "being there?"
Okay, let's do this fuzzy math again: 125,000/365 days = 342 per day, not 3,000. We have a tenfold exaggeration here. Considering that there were about 12 camps, comes to about 28 poor souls per camp per day. What math were were you using?
Don't mean to keep you up, but I think it's commendable that Croatia tolerates a known foreign agent in the middle of its capital and that his own staunchly nationalistic right-wing party keeps him as a member in good standing.
Hmmm...Good night.
I'm still waiting for that missing link you never provided....some shred of credible evidence to your anecdotal claims...
and some explanation/retraction of that fuzzy math of yours in #34
As for his party, it is so miniscule as to never have won an election even on the most local of levels. I doubt it could win an election in Scwartz's own home.
You're making a tempest out of a teapot. His party has never polled even 1%, while Seselj's fascists have polled upwards of 30%.
Freedom of speech? How despicable.
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