World's biggest telescope to prove Americans really walked on Moon (HOLD MY BEANIE ALERT)

The Sunday Telegraph ^ | November 24, 2002 | Robert Matthews

[MadIvan]

Conspiracy theorists, you have a problem. In an effort to silence claims that the Apollo Moon landings were faked, European scientists are to use the world's newest and largest telescope to see whether remains of the spacecraft are still on the lunar surface.

For years, doubters have claimed that Nasa, the US space agency, spent billions of dollars faking the landings to convince the world that it had beaten the Soviet Union to the Moon. A host of supposed evidence has been put forward, ranging from the absence of stars on any photographs taken by the astronauts to the fact that the Stars and Stripes they planted seemed to flutter in a vacuum.

Earlier this month, Nasa tried to put an end to the controversy by commissioning a definitive account of the evidence for the landings. Days later, it dropped the idea after criticism that it was wasting money by taking on the lunatic fringe: naturally, this only boosted claims that the space agency was trying to hide something.

The row even boiled over into personal conflict in September when police in Beverly Hills were called in to investigate claims that Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin - the second man on the Moon - punched a conspiracy theorist who accused him of lying about the landings.

Now astronomers hope to kill off the conspiracy theory once and for all by using the Very Large Telescope (VLT) - by far the most powerful telescope in the world - to spot the Apollo lunar landers.

Operated by European astronomers in the Chilean Andes, the VLT consists of four mirrors 27ft across linked by optical fibres. It can see a single human hair at a distance of 10 miles.

Trained on the Moon, such astonishing resolution should enable it to see the base of one or more of the six lunar modules which Nasa insists landed on the Moon between 1969 and 1972. Any images of the modules would be the first not to have been taken from space by Nasa.

Dr Richard West, an astronomer at the VLT, confirmed that his team was aiming to achieve "a high-resolution image of one of the Apollo landing sites".

The first attempt to spot the spacecraft will be made using only one of the VLT's four telescope mirrors, which are fitted with special "adaptive optics" to cancel the distorting effect of the Earth's atmosphere. A trial run of the equipment this summer produced the sharpest image of the Moon taken from the Earth, showing details 400ft across from a distance of 238,000 miles.

The VLT team hopes to improve on this, with the aim of detecting clear evidence for the presence of the landers. The base of the lunar modules measured about 10ft across, but would cast a much longer shadow under ideal conditions.

Dr West said that the challenge pushed the optical abilities of one VLT mirror to its limits: if this attempt failed, the team planned to use the power of all four mirrors. "They would most probably be sufficiently sharp to show something at the sites," he said.

Dr West insisted, however, that the decision to examine the landing sites was not driven by the conspiracy theory. "We do not question the reality of the landings," he said. "It is more for instrument-testing purposes."

Supporters of the conspiracy theory welcomed the news that astronomers are to photograph the landing sites. Marcus Allen, UK publisher of Nexus magazine and a long-time advocate of the theory, said: "I would be the first to accept what they find as powerful evidence that something was placed on the Moon by man."

He added, however, that photographs of the lander would not prove that America put men on the Moon. "Getting to the Moon really isn't much of a problem - the Russians did that in 1959," said Mr Allen. "The big problem is getting people there."

According to Mr Allen, Nasa was forced to send robots to the Moon and faked the manned missions because radiation levels in space were lethal to humans. "We know that no lead shielding was carried on Apollo, so how were 27 astronauts able to survive a journey of several days to and from the Moon?"

Dr Duncan Steel, a space scientist at Salford University, said that the supposed radiation hazard is a myth spread by conspiracy theorists.

Dr Robert Massey, an astronomer at the Royal Greenwich Observatory, said that the conspiracy theorists are unlikely to be deterred by photographic evidence. "Even if the VLT does see something, I suspect it won't silence them. In science we can never totally prove anything - but we can prove things beyond reasonable doubt."

[MadIvan]

This is getting out of hand in terms of wasting money.

Regards, Ivan

[MadIvan]

Bump!

[sauropod]

I figured they were gonna train the VLT on GB to see if there is any sign of a Conservative Party over there!

LOL!

[exnavy]

I thought they would point it at France and try to find any courage.

[Argh]

Hit the bastard again, Buzz, only harder!

[RadioAstronomer]

It's sad when valuable telescope resources have to be used to placate the nutters.

[timestax]

I have never heard a viable explanation on how that one flag on the moon was blowing around like a flag being blown by a very stiff wind, as there is NO wind on moon, it's a vacuum, right?!

[RightWhale]

Consider it just a test of the optics.

[RadioAstronomer]

Consider it just a test of the optics.

:-))

[Lokibob]

Not necessarly, Ivan. DOD regularly bounces radar signals off the moon to calibrate their radars. They don't have to, since the radars arn't tracking anything on the moon, but it provides a good reference and tuning beacon.

Same way with these guys. They need to know what the capabilities of their telescope is. I especially believe this, since they are going to use ONE of the scopes, then all 4 of them.

Besides, the tin foilers are not going to believe it anyway, since you can doctor a photo easier than fake a moon landing mission.

[Dudesdad]

Maybe they can look around for Elvis too, he's a hidin' somewheres.

[Teacher317]

Telescope photos? FAKES!

Heck, no telescope could possibly see that much detail.. it's a fake, too!

;^)

[Teacher317]

yeah, and those astronauts on the shuttle look like they're being blown around the cabin... but there's not supposed to be any wind on the shuttle... FAKES!!! The shuttles are fakes, too!!!

[PianoMan]

They put wires in the flag so it looked like it was flapping. Just for show. It's well documented. A friend was an intern at NASA during the moon landing and he verifies knowing about it.

[LibKill]

According to Mr Allen, Nasa was forced to send robots to the Moon and faked the manned missions because radiation levels in space were lethal to humans. "We know that no lead shielding was carried on Apollo, so how were 27 astronauts able to survive a journey of several days to and from the Moon?

Balderdash! Everyone knows there were no robots capable of piloting a spacecraft back in 1969.

The Apollo moon missions were carried out by suicide teams who bravely sacrificed themselves!< /insanity >

[poindexters brother]

I remember watching it in 1969, when I was 13, and the
explanation was that if they just put the flag there, it
would hang straight down so they put a telescoping rod
along the top of the flag to hold it out straight.

[timestax]

...wires???....

[Cicero]

Science always needs more money, interest, and support; consider it a useful PR gesture.

[Tennessee_Bob]

Please tell me you're kidding.

[timestax]

I remember watching it in 1969, when I was 13, and the explanation was that if they just put the flag there, it would hang straight down so they put a telescoping rod along the top of the flag to hold it out straight. 16 posted on 11/23/2002 5:26 PM PST by poindexters brother [ Post Reply

uh, it wasn't just hanging out there ..it was flapping and furling around big time!!

[deport]

Maybe the telescope can help Shelia Jack-lee to see the flag whether it is waving or not...... Or was that Mars she was looking for it on?

[rmvh]

In science we can never totally prove anything ...."

How can you correspond to morons who resolve thinking to this?...Total sophistry!!!!!!! ....Idiots!!!

[stylin19a]

Alan B. Shepard Jr hit two golf balls on the moon and left them there. He never revealed the name of the golf balls. Think we could get 'em to zero in on the balls ?

[11B3]

Why don't the conspiracy fools just go to the moon to show us that it was never done? That would settle it once and for all.

[MadIvan]

For everyone's enlightenment and amusement:

How to Make a Tin Foil Beanie

Regards, Ivan

[timestax]

I'm not saying they didn't go to moon, I just think they faked some of the pics!!

[hinckley buzzard]

You're suffering from false memory syndrome. There was no "flapping" and "furling" going on. Chill.

[Tennessee_Bob]

Only time it moved was when they hit the pole or the ground nearby. Watch the top of the flag, it stays in a straight line where the rod/wire is holding it out.

[timestax]

NO I'm not...you wish I was. I saw it flapping in the breeze. Wanna bet something??!

[timestax]

Only time it moved was when they hit the pole or the ground nearby. Watch the top of the flag, it stays in a straight line where the rod/wire is holding it out. 28 posted on 11/23/2002 5:31 PM PST by Tennessee_Bob [ Post Reply

NICE try , but No dice!!

[dorben]

The wife & I used to have a housekeeper who believed we never landed on the moon and to her the proof was that $40.00 movie " OJ " made years ago about how the entire thing was staged .

Did you see that movie ? There was a good deal of tinfoil on the set . Honestly I'm not making this up .

[Miss Marple]

I will bet you any amount. I watched every second of the landing live. I was 20 years old and an avid space fan. It did NOT flap!!!

Now, it may have been that in the coverage they used a waving flag in the logo, as Fox News does in their coverage of Operation Enduring Freedom. This I don't know because I watched coverage in Europe at the time (I was living in West Berlin). Believe you me, if that flag had been flapping every anti-American scientist from London to Moscow would have been howling about it!

[KriegerGeist]

So, are they going to paste little foot stickers on the outer lens? ROFL!

[Miss Marple]

The movie was "Capricorn One."

I believe a lot of this conspiracy theory stems from that movie. Yet ANOTHER thing to add to OJ's list of transgressions!

[Lokibob]

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast23feb_2.htm

 

Here's another one: Pictures of Apollo astronauts erecting a US flag on the Moon show the flag bending and rippling. How can that be? After all, there's no breeze on the Moon....

Not every waving flag needs a breeze -- at least not in space. When astronauts were planting the flagpole they rotated it back and forth to better penetrate the lunar soil (anyone who's set a blunt tent-post will know how this works). So of course the flag waved! Unfurling a piece of rolled-up cloth with stored angular momentum will naturally result in waves and ripples -- no breeze required!

Left: Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin deploy a U.S. flag on the Moon in 1969.

[deport]

Gosh what is one to do........

Johns Hopkins News-Letter

If we landed on the moon, couldn't a man with a reasonably high-power telescope be able to view the flag on our moon, or at least the land vehicles abandoned there, from his own backyard? No, we cannot. Why? Conveniently, NASA claims to have abandoned them on the dark side of the moon so that no part of our world can ever prove that we were actually there.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

This is getting out of hand in terms of wasting money.

Yes but it's not American taxpayer money for once.

Actually, I hope they train the VLT on the Sea of Tranquility. The looniest of the loons claim not that Americans never landed on the Moon but that the feat was not accomplished on July 20, 1969.

[wcbtinman]

What you saw "flapping" was the reaction of the flag to the thruster of the LEM when the astronauts returned to the command module.

Even in the vacumm of space, there will be a reaction to a jet of gas from a rocket engine that is blown against an object like that flag.

[timestax]

I went to Barnes and Nobles, and Borders, and puclic libraries and asked for books with pictures of astronauts on the moon. There were NONE!! A LIFE book of the 20th Century did have a couple of pics, but that's all! What's up with that. One of the Greatest achievements of mankind, and NO pics.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

I have never heard a viable explanation on how that one flag on the moon was blowing around like a flag being blown by a very stiff wind, as there is NO wind on moon,

Are you truly not aware that there is a stiff metal rod built into the top edge of all flags planted on the Moon to give them the appearance of being fully unfurled?

[dorben]

That's the 1 ! I was having a brunette moment there for a second . I'm with you on the point you make about the conspiracy folks . I've never heard of such nonsense until that movie was released .

And to think these people are out there with us in society having kids & voting ...

[timestax]

What you saw "flapping" was the reaction of the flag to the thruster of the LEM when the astronauts returned to the command module. Even in the vacumm of space, there will be a reaction to a jet of gas from a rocket engine that is blown against an object like that flag. 38 posted on 11/23/2002 5:38 PM PST by wcbtinman

Well, add your "explantion" to all the others above (scroll above). Ha Ha , so may "explantions" to choose from. Too bad none of them are viable.

[timestax]

Are you truly not aware that there is a stiff metal rod built into the top edge of all flags planted on the Moon to give them the appearance of being fully unfurled

Scroll above about the flapping of the flag.

[wimpycat]

[Lokibob]

Neal Armstrong

When Apollo Mission Astronaut Neil Armstrong first walked on the moon, he not only gave his famous "one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" statement but followed it by several remarks, usual communication traffic between him, the other astronauts and Mission Control.

Just before he reentered the lander, however, he made the enigmatic remark "Good luck Mr. Gorsky."

Many people at NASA thought it was a casual remark concerning some rival Soviet Cosmonaut.

However, upon checking, there was no Gorsky in either the Russian or American space programs.

Over the years many people questioned Armstrong as to what the "Good luck, Mr. Gorsky" statement meant, but Armstrong always just smiled.

On July 5, 1995 in Tampa Bay, Florida, while answering questions following a speech, a reporter brought up the 26 year old question to Armstrong. This time he finally responded. Mr. Gorsky had finally died and so Neil Armstrong felt he could answer the question.

When he was a kid, he was playing baseball with a friend in the backyard. His friend hit a fly ball, which landed right in front of his neighbor's bedroom windows. His neighbors were Mr. & Mrs.Gorsky.

As he leaned down to pick up the ball, young Armstrong heard Mrs.Gorsky shouting at Mr.Gorsky. "Sex! You want sex?! You'll get sex when the kid next door walks on the moon!"

[The FRugitive]

Now astronomers hope to kill off the conspiracy theory once and for all by using the Very Large Telescope (VLT)

I'm waiting for the BFT.

[timestax]

I will bet you any amount. I watched every second of the landing live. I was 20 years old and an avid space fan. It did NOT flap!!!

It did flap big time, just scroll up and see all the different and varied guesses called "explantions" being bantered about for that flag flapping like a flag in a hurricane!

[timestax]

Is that a moonpot?

[plsvn]

Deport,

Maybe the telescope can help Shelia Jack-lee to see the flag whether it is waving or not...... Or was that Mars she was looking for it on?

Moon? Mars?... to Queen Shelia, what's the difference?

[Arkie2]

I read a couple of years ago that this telescope array might be used for this purpose. That was before the recent NASA blow up over the book so NASA isn't in back of this. In fact, the guys who built this telescope were planning to do this more as a PR stunt to show off the capability of their telescope. With all the recent BS it's an even better idea, then on to the serious science.