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Archaeologists Announce Discovery Of Underwater Man-Made Wall (Very Old)
China Post ^ | 11-26-2002

Posted on 11/26/2002 7:57:18 AM PST by blam

Archaeologists announce discovery of underwater man-made wall

2002/11/26
The China Post staff

Underwater archaeologists yesterday announced the discovery of a man-made wall submerged under the waters of the Pescadores Islands that could be at least six and seven thousand years old.

Steve Shieh, the head of the planning committee for the Taiwan Underwater Archaeology Institute, said the wall was discovered to the northwest of Tong-chi Island in the Pescadores towards the end of September.

The stone wall, with an average height of one meter and a width of 50 centimeters, covers a distance of over 100 meters, Hsieh said.

The wall ran along the ocean floor at depths of between 25 and 30 meters, he added.

Shieh said that divers found several places along the wall where holes were apparently filled up with pebbles, possibly in an attempt to block winds.(Maybe to keep out the rising water?)

The wall was located by a team of divers working in cooperation with the National Museum of History and the Department of Environmental Sciences at the National Sun Yat-sen University.

In August, researchers scanning waters in the area with sonar discovered what appeared to be the remnants of four to five man-made walls running along the bottom of the sea.

Please see WALL on page(I could not find a map, if you can, please post it.)

Despite difficult diving conditions, Shieh said that a team of more than ten specialists was able to ascertain the positions of at least three of the wall sections.

The proximity of the wall to a similar structure found in 1976 suggests that it may be further evidence of a pre-historical civilization.

A three meter high underwater wall was discovered by amateur divers in waters off the nearby Hu-ching (Tiger Well) Island.

British archaeologists examined the find and proclaimed that the wall was probably made between 7,000 and 12,000 years ago.

The current find stands a mere 100 meters from the site of that discovery.

Six years ago, evidence of a sunken city in the area was found when amateur divers found the remains of what appear to be city walls taking the shape of a cross on the ocean floor.

Further examination suggested the ruins were made between seven and ten thousand years ago as well, although Japanese researchers put the walls construction at between 10,000 and 80,000 years ago.

Taken together, the discoveries have helped to overturn the established notion that Taiwan's earliest aboriginal inhabitants made their way here from mainland China some 6,000 years ago.(There goes the giant hynea theory, huh?)

The underwater finds are part of a growing body of evidence suggesting the existence of civilizations older than anything previously imagined.(suprise, suprise, suprise--Gomer Pyle voice)

On this theory, entire cities ended up underwater after sea levels rose towards the end of the last Ice Age, a date cited by Plato as being some 9,600 years ago.

One of the most dramatic examples of evidence of civilizations found on ocean beds has been megalithic structures off the coast of Yonaguni-jima in Japan that have been interpreted in some circles as being built for sacrificial rites. According to Shieh, a similar structure has been located off of the shores of Taiwan's Pingtung County .

Shieh said that he and his association have plans to explore that location as well as what appears to be a man-made path on the ocean floor off of Taitung County sometime next year.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archaeologists; archaeology; catastrophism; discovery; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; pescadoresislands; underwater; wall
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To: Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
Your reaction was formed through exposure 24/7 to our controlled news media. It is an entirely one sided version of events. One would think that American Christians would show a little sympathy to their Christian brothers and sisters in Israel/Palestine, but apparently not. "Judeo-Christian" Zionism trumps everything. Also our tax dollars are going to fund and arm the state which is raining bombs, guided missiles, and bullets on women and children, and justifying it in the name of these religious myths. Small wonder if these Palestinians don't care for us. Be that as it may, it would not matter to me who was killing who, or what demonic purposes these religious myths were being put to, if I was not being forced to support these myths with my tax dollars, and if these myths were not being used to drag us into an inevitable series of wars for an empire which the American people do not want to have, paid for with the lives of their sons. It just isn't something you should want, even if you despise every Palestian that ever drew breath.

It figures you're a Dem.

201 posted on 11/27/2002 6:35:18 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: blam
These 'Black Sea' folks are the anscestors of all the folks you all have been fussing about.

I guess you're a KOOK too blam. Welcome to the club. LOL

202 posted on 11/27/2002 6:37:32 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: blam
Intriguing...I like it! (Solomon's mines were probably in Peru)

A three year round trip, where else. :^)

203 posted on 11/27/2002 6:39:29 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: #3Fan
I like those turtles the sea formed on those massive rock ledges, don'tcha know! And those steps, so perfectly 90 degrees, with markings of tool action that the sea made, those are noce too. {/sarcasm}
204 posted on 11/27/2002 6:41:29 PM PST by MHGinTN
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To: A.J.Armitage
No, Dictionary.com said...

Well they know everything. LOL

I'm not discussing this with you if you refuse to be intellectually dishonest. Everything's a coincidence, right?

205 posted on 11/27/2002 6:42:13 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: LostTribe
There is no way you could have honestly analyzed that long post in this short time. I doubt you even read it. It appears your head is up and locked, and not open to evidence of any sort. Goodbye.

These guys aren't looking at or thinking about anything we're discussing. They won't even look at the pictures in my links. They're disrupters, screw 'em.

206 posted on 11/27/2002 6:45:09 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: #3Fan
I'm not discussing this with you if you refuse to be intellectually dishonest.

I've never seen it put quite that way, before.

207 posted on 11/27/2002 6:48:25 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: MHGinTN
I like those turtles the sea formed on those massive rock ledges, don'tcha know! And those steps, so perfectly 90 degrees, with markings of tool action that the sea made, those are noce too. {/sarcasm}

The argument that it's too big to be terraformed is funny too. The Great pyramid is 400 feet high.

208 posted on 11/27/2002 6:50:18 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: VadeRetro
Grammer police? Intellectually honest obviously.
209 posted on 11/27/2002 6:51:26 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: VadeRetro
Hey, at least he was telling the truth.
210 posted on 11/27/2002 6:52:26 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
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To: A.J.Armitage
I blundered into the wrong loony bin on this thread.
211 posted on 11/27/2002 6:55:42 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro
"I blundered into the wrong loony bin on this thread."

Best laugh I've had in a week. Thanks.

212 posted on 11/27/2002 7:00:04 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
No prob. You should see the threads I usually hang out on.
213 posted on 11/27/2002 7:01:32 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: billybudd; Alamo-Girl
Well, duh, the earth was created 6,000 years ago, so I don't see how it's possible that anything ON the earth can be older. Silly scientists.

For an interesting view on Origins and the age of the Earth, take a look at a fellow FReeper's 'take' on this thread:

FReeper views on Origins

FRegards, MM

214 posted on 11/27/2002 7:13:52 PM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo
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To: #3Fan
That may also explain quick-frozen Siberian mammoths who died and were frozen standing up also. Our poles flip every so often, South to North and vice-versa.

There is a Russian scientist or author, I believe his name is Kolisimov, who has speculated that the sudden freezing of Siberia was caused by an abrubt tilt of the earth on it's axis due to impact by a celestial body (comet, etc.). I don't recall the impact date he cited.

215 posted on 11/27/2002 7:18:28 PM PST by Mad_Tom_Rackham
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To: LostTribe
I read with interest your earlier post entitled "Three Minute History of the Israelites". Could you direct me to source documents? Was this your own research? I am curious to learn more. Thanks.
216 posted on 11/27/2002 7:36:01 PM PST by Mad_Tom_Rackham
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham
.....that the sudden freezing of Siberia

That is worth a thread sometime in the future.

217 posted on 11/27/2002 7:39:27 PM PST by Little Bill
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To: Little Bill
That is worth a thread sometime in the future.

I do enjoy these archeological-anthropological conspiracy threads.

PS: The sudden freezing of Siberia really does have to be explained...

218 posted on 11/27/2002 8:01:19 PM PST by Mad_Tom_Rackham
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To: blam
eTaiwanNews.com/Scientists argue over possible 'Atlantis' off Penghu


219 posted on 11/27/2002 8:03:10 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham
There is a Russian scientist or author, I believe his name is Kolisimov, who has speculated that the sudden freezing of Siberia was caused by an abrubt tilt of the earth on it's axis due to impact by a celestial body (comet, etc.). I don't recall the impact date he cited.

Yeah, that could be. I think there are 2 things that could trigger it. A meteor strike or a pole switch. The sun switches poles every few years. If the earth's core is like the suns core, maybe it flips every few thousand years. Or maybe there's another body we're not aware of that is highly electromagnetic that's on a long very elliptical orbit. It would explain the asteroid belt, Uranus on it's side, Pluto on it's wild orbit, and maybe even our moon. Our earth is like a big magnet, if another powerful magnet were introduced and got relatively close to the earth, the earth's core would try to align with it.

It's got to be something. The mammoths are frozen standing up with tropical plants in their mouths. Something caused it.

220 posted on 11/27/2002 8:10:49 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Alamo girl is pretty good. I'll read that when I have more time.
221 posted on 11/27/2002 8:15:46 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: #3Fan
Well at least I know what Art Bell will be talking about tonight!!
222 posted on 11/27/2002 8:24:01 PM PST by WKB
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham
>I read with interest your earlier post entitled "Three Minute History of the Israelites".

Thank You.

> Could you direct me to source documents?

As far as I am concerned, the best single source of much more information at the consumer level is the book by Capt shown at my FR page. It concentrates on the 23,000 Assyrian tablets resident at the British Museum, and they tell the tale. Also found at Assyrian Tablets in the British Museum.

> Was this your own research?

The 3-MINUTE HISTORY is my own summary written from my own research, as is virtually everything I post here on the subject.

223 posted on 11/27/2002 8:32:00 PM PST by LostTribe
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To: #3Fan
>They're disrupters, screw 'em.

Works for me. {ggg}.

224 posted on 11/27/2002 8:32:50 PM PST by LostTribe
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To: #3Fan
Shades of Velikofsky(sp?)! Tropical plants in their mouths you say?
225 posted on 11/27/2002 9:56:32 PM PST by MHGinTN
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Thank you so much for the heads up and linking to the "Freeper Views on Origins" thread! I hope anyone who wishes to post their views there will do so. Happy Thanksgiving!!!
226 posted on 11/27/2002 10:28:23 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: WKB
Well at least I know what Art Bell will be talking about tonight!!

Does he talk about this stuff much? I heard him one time a few years ago.

227 posted on 11/27/2002 10:28:47 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: MHGinTN
Shades of Velikofsky(sp?)! Tropical plants in their mouths you say?

Certainly not plants you find in Siberia anyway.

228 posted on 11/27/2002 10:29:55 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: VadeRetro
I wonder, what peoples on the Earth today would you nominate as the descendants of the lost tribes? There will have to be a bunch of them, so tiny pockets of people don't count.

229 posted on 11/28/2002 3:34:30 AM PST by William Terrell
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To: MHGinTN
from Worlds in Collision by Immanuel Velikovsky (a book that's hard to come by- I had to find it used)

p.24
"Northeast Siberia, which was not covered by ice in the last Ice Age, conceals another enigma. The climate there had apparantly changed drastically since the end of the Ice Age, and the yearly temperature has dropped many degrees below it's previous level. Animals once lived in this region that do not live there now, and plants grew there that are unable to grow there now. This change must have occurred quite suddenly. The cause of this Klimasturz has not been explained. In this catastrophic change of climate and under mysterious circumstances, all of the mammoths of Siberia perished."

"The mammoth belonged to the family of elephants. Its tusks were sometimes as much as ten feet long. Its teeth were highly developed and their "density" was greater than in any other stage in the evolution of the elephants: apparently they did not succumb in the struggle for survival as an unfit product of evolution. The extinction of the mammoth is thought to have coincided with the end of the last glacial period."

"Tusks of mammoths have been found in large numbers in northeast Siberia; this well-preserved ivory has been an object of export to China and Europe ever since the Russian conquest of Siberia and was exploited in even earlier times. In modern times the ivory market of the world still found its main source of supply in the tundras of northeast Siberia."

"In 1799 the frozen bodies of mammoths were found in these tundras. The corpses were well preserved, and the sledge dogs ate the flesh unharmed. "The flesh is fibrous and marbled with fat" and "looks as fresh as well frozen beef." " (footnoted- D.F. Hertz in B. Digby, The Mammoth, 1926 p.9)

"What was the cause of their death and the extinction of their race? Cuvier wrote of the extinction of the mammoths: "Repeated irruptions and retreats of the sea have neither all been slow nor gradual; on the contrary, most of the catastrophes which have occasioned them have been sudden...If they had not been frozen as soon as killed, they would have been decomposed by putrefaction..." "

"....Darwin admitted that he was unable to find an explanation for the extermination of the mammoth, an animal better developed than the elephant which survived.(footnote) But in conformity with the theory of evolution, his followers supposed that the gradual sinking of the land forced the mammoths to the hills, where they found themselves isolated by marshes. However, if geological processes are slow, the mammoths would not have been trapped on the isolated hills. Besides, this theory cannot be true because the animals did not die of starvation. In their stomachs and between their teeth undigested grass and leaves were found. This, too, proves that they died from a sudden cause. Further investigations showed that the leaves and twigs found in their stomachs do not grow in the regions where the animals died, but far to the south, a thousand or more miles away. It is apparent that the climate has changed radically since the death of the mammoths; and as bodies of the animals were found not decomposed but well preserved in blocks of ice, the change in temperature must have followed their death very closely or even caused it."

"There remains to be added that after storms in the Arctic, tusks of mammoths are washed up on the shores of the arctic islands; this proves that a part of the land where the mammoths lived and were drowned is covered by the Arctic Ocean.".....

[There is much more, but I tried to include enough for context]

230 posted on 11/28/2002 6:00:39 AM PST by the-ironically-named-proverbs2
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham; Little Bill; #3Fan
See #230
231 posted on 11/28/2002 6:15:58 AM PST by the-ironically-named-proverbs2
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To: #3Fan
Does he talk about this stuff much?

Art Bell talks about anything and everything from ghosts to space aliens. Last night it was about whether or not we really went to the moon.

232 posted on 11/28/2002 6:15:58 AM PST by WKB
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To: blam
read later bump
233 posted on 11/28/2002 6:24:46 AM PST by freedom9
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Comment #234 Removed by Moderator

To: William Terrell
I wonder, what peoples on the Earth today would you nominate as the descendants of the lost tribes?

I don't know the parameters of the problem. I doubt very many people were relocated very far. It's not that practical. There's probably no reason to expect much residue from whatever did happen back then.

235 posted on 11/28/2002 7:10:07 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: the-ironically-named-proverbs2
Vine DeLoria's "Red Earth, White Lies" provides a fuller treatment of the dieouts of all the large North American animals as well as the Eurasian mammoths than Velikovsky did, and Red Earth is still findable. DeLoria is a former president of the National Council of American Indians, and the well-known author of a number of standard texts on Indian affairs such as "Custer died for Your Sins", and a Velikovskian-style catastrophist.
236 posted on 11/28/2002 8:09:54 AM PST by annflounder
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To: #3Fan; blam
Sorry I took so long getting to this.

I've thought of a trigger mechanism: If a degenerate star or large planet (Wormwood) with a strong electromagnetic field happened to pass close by, the electromagnetic flux acting on the field surrounding our iron-cored planet might be sufficient moment to initiate movement in that core with respect to the crust (having its own momentum and relatively less iron).
237 posted on 11/28/2002 8:41:47 AM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: Carry_Okie
"I've thought of a trigger mechanism: If a degenerate star or large planet (Wormwood) with a strong electromagnetic field happened to pass close by, the electromagnetic flux acting on the field surrounding our iron-cored planet might be sufficient moment to initiate movement in that core with respect to the crust (having its own momentum and relatively less iron)."

Your 'flyby' proposal would produce sudden crustal movement that would (probably) devestate every thing on earth. (wouldn't it?)

I'm thinking something slower?

238 posted on 11/28/2002 8:57:06 AM PST by blam
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To: AllSmiles
Thanks, nice link.

I'm wondering? Wouldn't the temperatures required to make ceramic pottery also be sufficent to produce steel? (...and did I read correctly that some of the ceramic is/was 7,000 years old?)

239 posted on 11/28/2002 9:00:28 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
I don't think it would be that sudden. Planets don't move that fast with respect to their orbital paths or the relative distances involved. Remember: these forces are proportional to an inverse square of the distances between their centers and are continuous. The effects would thus be felt long before anything acted, peak smoothly, and recede symmetrically.

It fits.
240 posted on 11/28/2002 9:13:10 AM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: blam
Wouldn't the temperatures required to make ceramic pottery also be sufficent to produce steel?

Not necessarily, it depends upon the chemical composition of the sintering aggregate and the duration of the firing process. Alumina has very high firing temperatures, other silicates sinter at lower temperatures. Typical sintering temperatures are in the range of 1,000°C or less. Steels have typical processing temperaures around 1,800°C.

241 posted on 11/28/2002 9:21:21 AM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: William Terrell
I wonder, what peoples on the Earth today would you nominate as the descendants of the lost tribes?

According to this view, the most likely candidates would be those jews descended from the Khazar kingdom in Southern Russia.

242 posted on 11/28/2002 9:45:31 AM PST by annflounder
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To: blam
BTW, with regard to pole flipping... Remember that we have a planet with a hard shell, a semi-plastic unberlayer, a liquid layer and a solid core. The outer shell ALREADY rotates at a different speed than the solid core (which is what generates earth's electromagnetic field). My guess is that "pole flipping" entails not only movement of the solid core beneath the outer shell, but perhaps a shell of the mantle as well. The moving element would operate under the following scenario: Many pseudoplastic materials get very flowy if they start to move. If the forces operating on the planet were symmetrical, a shear layer might well develop within the mantle. We'd thus be sitting on top of one BIG fluid clutch.

Pretty cool really.
243 posted on 11/28/2002 9:56:13 AM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: Carry_Okie
Hmmm. I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin.'

Someone higher up on the thread mentioned ice 'stacking up' and the subsequent weight. I think global weather patterns typically move from west to east ...and if this is true, it would seem to me that most of the moisture would precipitate out on the western edges of the continents (and over time), creating an enormous build up of ice/weight in selected areas.
At some point, the weight would redistribute.(?)

The suddeness being spoken of is troubling me. Wouldn't this (sudden) movement have been detected by geologists...they're all talking about slow movement over millions of years.

244 posted on 11/28/2002 10:13:16 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
Wouldn't this (sudden) movement have been detected by geologists...they're all talking about slow movement over millions of years.

Possibly not. They've all been taught the same thing out of the same texts with data that is probably 10 years old, at least. Then there's the group think factor. Consider "conservation biologists."

Now lets look at geologists. How long ago was it that they ALL thought the Grand Canyon eroded only very slowly? It wasn't that long ago that we learned what could happen with a dam breach suddenly releasing a huge inland sea. So, lets say all of them measure current rates of continental movement and project backwards...

Now, how long ago was plate tectonics first posited and confirmed? About 35 years ago. It's a theory; but that doesn't mean it's completely understood.

245 posted on 11/28/2002 10:31:34 AM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Over here.
246 posted on 11/28/2002 11:54:59 AM PST by blam
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To: Carry_Okie
"I've thought of a trigger mechanism: If a degenerate star or large planet (Wormwood) with a strong electromagnetic field happened to pass close by, the electromagnetic flux acting on the field surrounding our iron-cored planet might be sufficient moment to initiate movement in that core with respect to the crust (having its own momentum and relatively less iron)."

I hope you weren't being sarcastic and I'm just too dense to have picked up on it.... have you ever read anything by Velikovsky? Your statement is pretty much his theory in a nutshell. Back in the early 50s his books caused quite a ruckus with those wacky ideas. The problem for "establishment science" has been that most of his "predictions" about the nature of certain planets and the moon have proven correct while establishment scientists have been amazingly wrong.

247 posted on 11/28/2002 12:36:24 PM PST by the-ironically-named-proverbs2
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To: the-ironically-named-proverbs2
I wasn't being sarcastic. I was simply musing.

I have heard of Velikovsky, but haven't read any of his work. I have scanned criticism's of his theories that did make sense to me (the gist of which escapes me right now), but such "failings" don't mean that he didn't have anything to offer. I still remember those conventional whizdumbs of the time that suggested grass adjoining canals full of water on Mars. I share blam's interest in catastrophes from political, historical, philosophical, technical, and ecological perspectives. It is in part for personal reasons beyond personal faith.

I wrote a book on free-market environmental management that takes uses risk analyses to disperse and diversify technical approaches to habitat management appropriate to changing spatial and temporal circumstance. Such would give us better ability to respond to catastrophic events than the single point control systems typical of government. I take the possibility of such events seriously and want to learn from the historical response set.
248 posted on 11/28/2002 1:40:20 PM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: VadeRetro
I doubt very many people were relocated very far. It's not that practical. There's probably no reason to expect much residue from whatever did happen back then.

It's a historical fact that the tribes were moved to the northern borders of Assyria as a buffer against hostle peoples. The Assyrian tablets put that one to rest. Where they put them was up near the Causausus mountains. That's historical fact also. They had several centuries to migrate into Europe and there is evidence that prior Israelites had gotten there earlier from Egypt.

I don't see how it's so improbable. Also I'm reminded of Hosea 1:10,11:

10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

Either God is a piker or this is to come to past. So the Northern Kingdom has to be here today and there have to be oodles of them, and they will have to be the same people from the same stock.

That's why I asked if you could think of another candidate then the European/American/Austrailian/New Zealand, ect people.

249 posted on 11/28/2002 2:30:45 PM PST by William Terrell
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To: annflounder
Doesn't fit the requirements.

250 posted on 11/28/2002 2:33:27 PM PST by William Terrell
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