Archaeologists Announce Discovery Of Underwater Man-Made Wall (Very Old)

China Post ^ | 11-26-2002

[blam]

Archaeologists announce discovery of underwater man-made wall

2002/11/26
The China Post staff

Underwater archaeologists yesterday announced the discovery of a man-made wall submerged under the waters of the Pescadores Islands that could be at least six and seven thousand years old.

Steve Shieh, the head of the planning committee for the Taiwan Underwater Archaeology Institute, said the wall was discovered to the northwest of Tong-chi Island in the Pescadores towards the end of September.

The stone wall, with an average height of one meter and a width of 50 centimeters, covers a distance of over 100 meters, Hsieh said.

The wall ran along the ocean floor at depths of between 25 and 30 meters, he added.

Shieh said that divers found several places along the wall where holes were apparently filled up with pebbles, possibly in an attempt to block winds.(Maybe to keep out the rising water?)

The wall was located by a team of divers working in cooperation with the National Museum of History and the Department of Environmental Sciences at the National Sun Yat-sen University.

In August, researchers scanning waters in the area with sonar discovered what appeared to be the remnants of four to five man-made walls running along the bottom of the sea.

Please see WALL on page(I could not find a map, if you can, please post it.)

Despite difficult diving conditions, Shieh said that a team of more than ten specialists was able to ascertain the positions of at least three of the wall sections.

The proximity of the wall to a similar structure found in 1976 suggests that it may be further evidence of a pre-historical civilization.

A three meter high underwater wall was discovered by amateur divers in waters off the nearby Hu-ching (Tiger Well) Island.

British archaeologists examined the find and proclaimed that the wall was probably made between 7,000 and 12,000 years ago.

The current find stands a mere 100 meters from the site of that discovery.

Six years ago, evidence of a sunken city in the area was found when amateur divers found the remains of what appear to be city walls taking the shape of a cross on the ocean floor.

Further examination suggested the ruins were made between seven and ten thousand years ago as well, although Japanese researchers put the walls construction at between 10,000 and 80,000 years ago.

Taken together, the discoveries have helped to overturn the established notion that Taiwan's earliest aboriginal inhabitants made their way here from mainland China some 6,000 years ago.(There goes the giant hynea theory, huh?)

The underwater finds are part of a growing body of evidence suggesting the existence of civilizations older than anything previously imagined.(suprise, suprise, suprise--Gomer Pyle voice)

On this theory, entire cities ended up underwater after sea levels rose towards the end of the last Ice Age, a date cited by Plato as being some 9,600 years ago.

One of the most dramatic examples of evidence of civilizations found on ocean beds has been megalithic structures off the coast of Yonaguni-jima in Japan that have been interpreted in some circles as being built for sacrificial rites. According to Shieh, a similar structure has been located off of the shores of Taiwan's Pingtung County .

Shieh said that he and his association have plans to explore that location as well as what appears to be a man-made path on the ocean floor off of Taitung County sometime next year.

[Vidalia]

Too many "experts" at the dig will ruin the relics...

[ClearCase_guy]

Cthulhu bump.

[blam]

Heads up.

[blam]

Previously posted:

Lost Civilisation From 7,500BC Discovered Off Indian Coast

[Grampa Dave]

Thanks, this kinda of ties in with the finds in that Japanese Island at the southern tip of their islands that is not far away from Taiwan. I can't think of the island's name.

[blam]

Jomons? (...or friends of Kennewick Man?)

[VadeRetro]

Call me a skeptic on this one.

[Gumlegs]

Underwater archaeologists yesterday announced the discovery of a man-made wall submerged under the waters of the Pescadores Islands that could be at least six and seven thousand years old.

Let's see, six and seven thousand make thirteen thousand years, but I'm not sure whether the article means the Pescadores are 13,000 years old or the water is.

[VadeRetro]

At any rate, it's evidence for ancient scuba divers.

[blam]

The Ainu People

[Gumlegs]

Right now I'm picturing Strom Thurmond in a wet suit.

[aristeides]

Isn't that underwater temple that was found off India also supposed to be thousands of years old?

[billybudd]

The stone wall, with an average height of one meter and a width of 50 centimeters, covers a distance of over 100 meters, Hsieh said.

This thing is 50 cubic meters of stone, I don't think there's much chance that the divers would ruin it. After all, it's not as if they're running and stomping on top of it. They're swimming around it and touching it in a few places to see what it's made of (like the pebbles).

[billybudd]

Well, duh, the earth was created 6,000 years ago, so I don't see how it's possible that anything ON the earth can be older. Silly scientists.

[Vidalia]

Archaeological structures that are being dated back 8,000 to 12,000 years are becoming more numerous.

A severe revision (based on facts) of civilization as we know it may be in the workings in the next 25 - 30 years...

[r9etb]

The underwater finds are part of a growing body of evidence suggesting the existence of civilizations older than anything previously imagined.

There are probably a lot of reasons for this. I suspect one major reason has to do with the fact that archaelogy started in, and was focused on, the roots of western civilization, which pretty much means it took place in the neighborhood of the Mediterranean.

[aristeides]

Maybe old structures survive longer underwater because they're no longer subject to disruption by later people?

[Vidalia]

Clarification: Figurative comment only. Take-off on the cliche of "Too many cooks in the kitchen".

As in many other professions, "experts" tend to come out of the woodwork in increasing numbers until it gets to the point that the law of diminishing returns is reached concerning objectivity.

Point, counterpoint, point, counterpoint ad nauseum until the hypothetical and theoritical ruin any semblance of factual objectivity is lost...

[johnny7]

Sounds like the Chinese are building a tunnel to Taiwan!

[blam]

"Isn't that underwater temple that was found off India also supposed to be thousands of years old.

Yup. I thought I had it bookmarked but could not find it.

[Vidalia]

Maybe old structures survive longer underwater because they're no longer subject to disruption by later people?

...and climatic erosion...

[SpinyNorman]

Cthulhu bump.

Big fat Lovecraft bump!

[blam]

"A severe revision (based on facts) of civilization as we know it may be in the workings in the next 25 - 30 years..."

Count on it. The 'out of Africa' theory will come under assault also.

[aristeides]

The "out of Africa" theory is so politically correct.

[Vermont Lt]

Oh don't be silly. The world was created from materials much older than that--and then during the creation the fossils and walls were put in place--just to keep testing we heretics.

[Vidalia]

The "out of Africa" theory is so politically correct.

Especially when considering where the AIDS VIRUS originated...

[mhking]

Did someone say "time travel?"

[Jonah Hex]

Cthulhu bump.

And a Yob-Sodoff bump back to you!

;-)

[RightWhale]

If it was flooded by one of the three major glacial lake outpourings, the sea level would have risen abruptly in a week or two. Not much time to lay sandbags.

[poindexters brother]

No doubt a direct result of failing to ratify the Kyoto Treaty on greenhouse gas emissions.

[Gumlegs]

If it's the people, send shovels. If it's the army, send screen doors.

[Bernard Marx]

I suspect one major reason has to do with the fact that archaelogy started in, and was focused on, the roots of western civilization, which pretty much means it took place in the neighborhood of the Mediterranean.

I think that's true to some extent. Also, don't underestimate the impact of politics. From the beginning of WWII until the end of the Cold War, approximtely 50 years, technology like satellites and underwater gear were being developed that makes these new theories possible. Yet during the same time vast areas of the globe were out-of-bounds for archaeological research.

Simultaneously, the politically correct 'out-of-Africa' theory was being hatched. Most tenured American archaeologists were blindered by the 'religion' of certain prevailing belief models that prevented them from considering any evidence that went counter to their credo. I don't personally presume to say whether that credo is right or wrong, but real evidence has a way of not going away (unless it can be be destroyed for political reasons as in the attempts on the remains of Kennewick Man). A whole lot of interesting evidence is beginning to pile up, and if the archaeologists in the old guard don't deal with it, a new generation will.

[JmyBryan]

Good link for this type of stuff http://www.grahamhancock.com

[LostTribe]

>Most tenured American archaeologists were blindered by the 'religion' of certain prevailing belief models that prevented them from considering any evidence that went counter to their credo.

That nicely worded statement fits a thousand different historical / archeological situations. It also applies perfectly to THIS ONE.

[Dead Corpse]

Also found where curious, desktop looking PC type objects with this odd mark engraved on the front:

[MHGinTN]

Nice link. The underwater 'thing' at Graham's site is off the coast of Okinawa and would have been above water level at the end of the last Ice Age ... and it is conjectured that the site was a ruin even before it became a sumberged site, covered by the rising waters of the ice age ending.

[Constantine XIII]

Cthulhu bit my sister, then stole my cheese!

[maro]

bump

[gnarledmaw]

Ive heard that evidence has been found that a Kyoto like treaty was in place. The big problem seemed to be compliance in that it was so hard to get the gas containment units on the back ends of those wild bean eating mastodons...

[Auntie Dem]

How can a stone wall be accurately dated? There is likely no organic material in the wall to make Carbon 14 dating possible, and accumulation of coral or other sea water accumulations could vary greatly depending upon the amount of minerals or aquatic life in the area over the "eons" of time. While I don't believe the earth is only 6,000 years old, I am sceptical of claims of man's presence 15,000 years or more ago.

Of course I guess it is possible the divers may discover an ancient Palm Pilot in the wall whose clock is stopped at 10,000 B.C.

[Bernard Marx]

Religion is religion. Science is supposed to be science. Forcing 'facts' to fit preconceived theories is not science.

[blam]

"If it was flooded by one of the three major glacial lake outpourings, the sea level would have risen abruptly in a week or two. "

Yup. That was Lake Agassiz that covered most of Canada. It was responible for the Younger-Dryas period when it 'broke through' to the Lawerence Seaway.

[blam]

Auntie, you need to get out more often. (smile)

Calico: A 200,000-Year Old Site In The Americas?

[RightWhale]

How can a stone wall be accurately dated?

That is the big question. If the wall is submerged now it can at least be dated to when it was last above water, making some assumptions. But inorganic ruins by themselves would have to be dated by association with other objects and materials. If they find a piece of wood, there is the chance of using dendrochronology, a powerful new tool.

[blam]

"The underwater 'thing' at Graham's site is off the coast of Okinawa and would have been above water level at the end of the last Ice Age ... and it is conjectured that the site was a ruin even before it became a sumberged site, covered by the rising waters of the ice age ending."

I just saw an hour special on this site the other night. Geologist Robert Schott said that he thinks it's a natural formation, he did say that humans may have been present at the site before it was covered with water, but, they did not build it. I trust his judgement. He's the geologist that started the controversy about the age of the Sphinx being 9-10,000 years old.

[RightWhale]

Don't forget old, cantankerous John Anthony West.

[ijcr]

Surely, the big question is how did they get the mortar to set?

[blam]

"Don't forget old, cantankerous John Anthony West."

Yup. I think he is the one who brought the geologist Schott into the Sphinx fray.

[RightWhale]

how did they get the mortar to set?

Concrete can set underwater, it's a chemical reaction. Also, welding can be done underwater. There doesn't seem to be much rebar from 10,000 years ago, not that it rusted away, it just appears steel wasn't used much back then.