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Archaeologists Announce Discovery Of Underwater Man-Made Wall (Very Old)
China Post ^ | 11-26-2002

Posted on 11/26/2002 7:57:18 AM PST by blam

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To: LostTribe
"I like stuff by Baillie. He knows how to COUNT, and to QUANTIFY."

Yup. That thread linked in post #96 may be one of the best threads (and links) ever.

101 posted on 11/26/2002 9:51:41 PM PST by blam
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To: LostTribe
A number I have look up the Author, 30mm in Mexico, central and South America, pre 1492.
102 posted on 11/26/2002 9:51:58 PM PST by Little Bill
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To: Little Bill; LostTribe
Kirkpatrick Sale, terrible author, wasted $30, estimates as well as any modern author.
103 posted on 11/26/2002 10:02:09 PM PST by Little Bill
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To: Little Bill
> terrible author, wasted $30, estimates as well as any modern author.

HA! {ggg}. I appreciate the numbers, and hope his estimates are better than your opinion about him. {ggg}.

104 posted on 11/26/2002 10:07:17 PM PST by LostTribe
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To: LostTribe
Bernardo De La Vega, one of the conquistidors reported that Montizuma sacrificed 20,000 men when he became ruler of the Aztecs, Corination feast? So the numbers could be in the ball park.
105 posted on 11/26/2002 10:14:31 PM PST by Little Bill
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To: LostTribe
What follows is very well researched, including on-site study over 2 decades and post-Doctoral work at European Universities which might allow you to visit only in order to use the rest room.

Also you're 6'4" and have an 11 inch penis, and are a multimillionaire.

106 posted on 11/26/2002 11:32:31 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
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To: blam
Steve Shieh, the head of the planning committee for the Taiwan Underwater Archaeology Institute, said the wall was discovered to the northwest of Tong-chi Island in the Pescadores towards the end of September.

Where the hell is September? :^)

107 posted on 11/27/2002 12:23:44 AM PST by #3Fan
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To: blam
100 feet down again. I have a theory I thought of a couple of days ago that if there was a crustal displcement and it caused the North Pole to be replaced by a sea istead of dry land that this would cause more of the earth's water to avoid being trapped as ice. In other words move North America up a little and Antarctica over a little and you have two land masses on each pole able to hold a lot more ice than now since presently there isn't any land at the North pole.
108 posted on 11/27/2002 12:34:23 AM PST by #3Fan
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To: #3Fan
That may also explain quick-frozen Siberian mammoths who died and were frozen standing up also. Our poles flip every so often, South to North and vice-versa. Scientists say that when lave flows out of a volcano that it "grains" according to the magnetic field. That tells me that there is a force in the crust of the earth wherever there is lava solidified (which is most of the earth) that will try to align with the poles of the earth's core like a compass needle. If the earth's crust were molten, then each individual molecule would simply turn with a pole switch where it sits, being able to slide against each other in a liquid state. But since the earth's crust is solid there will be an integrated force that will attempt to move the whole crust and being that the crust sits on a liquid mantle, it may be able to do that.

Something I thought of two days ago when I woke up. That's when I do my best thinking. :^)

109 posted on 11/27/2002 12:44:20 AM PST by #3Fan
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To: blam
I just saw an hour special on this site the other night. Geologist Robert Schott said that he thinks it's a natural formation, he did say that humans may have been present at the site before it was covered with water, but, they did not build it. I trust his judgement. He's the geologist that started the controversy about the age of the Sphinx being 9-10,000 years old.

He's wrong this time. There are two carved faces with headdresses.

110 posted on 11/27/2002 1:09:33 AM PST by #3Fan
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To: blam; LostTribe
Thanks for pinging me. I'd read the first part of this thread. Didn't see the latter comments.

Of course, I could go without all that stupid male postering that showed up there. I guess it's a "male thing", but I'll never understand why people have to get into such ridiculous grade school diatribes. LostTribe really disappointed me by buying into it.
111 posted on 11/27/2002 4:14:40 AM PST by JudyB1938
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To: blam
a man-made wall submerged under the waters of the Pescadores Islands that could be at least six and seven thousand years old = thirteen thousand years old, WOW!
112 posted on 11/27/2002 4:19:37 AM PST by RWG
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To: Little Bill
"A number I have look up the Author, 30mm in Mexico, central and South America, pre 1492."

I've seen the number 50+ million quoted for South America alone. The number was based on the amount of manmade waterways and raised fields in the Amazon region. When the Spanish landed, there were cities in SA larger than any in Europe.

The unique story of South America has yet to be discovered and told and I expect archaeology/anthropology will be shaken to the core when it is.

Rain Forest Researchers Hit Paydirt (Farming 11K Years Ago In South America)

113 posted on 11/27/2002 6:37:44 AM PST by blam
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To: #3Fan
"In other words move North America up a little and Antarctica over a little and you have two land masses on each pole able to hold a lot more ice than now since presently there isn't any land at the North pole."

Maybe but, you're now into the million+ year range. Africa and South America began to split 120 million years ago. (as an example)

114 posted on 11/27/2002 6:43:01 AM PST by blam
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To: #3Fan
"He's wrong this time. There are two carved faces with headdresses."

I saw those, probably cut into a pre-existing natural structure before it flooded.

115 posted on 11/27/2002 6:47:24 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
So, is California trying to sue for building without a permit?

I guess this is Davis' way of covering the budget shortfall.

116 posted on 11/27/2002 6:49:25 AM PST by Redleg Duke
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To: blam
Sorry, I've been forgetting to ping you.

No problem. :-)

Is this the Indian story you were referring to?

117 posted on 11/27/2002 7:30:59 AM PST by white rose
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To: A.J.Armitage
>Also you're 6'4" and have an 11 inch penis, and are a multimillionaire.

No, but 2 out of 3 is not bad. {ggg}.

118 posted on 11/27/2002 7:38:31 AM PST by LostTribe
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To: JudyB1938
>LostTribe really disappointed me by buying into it.

Hello JudyB. You lost me. For "buying into" what???

119 posted on 11/27/2002 7:40:43 AM PST by LostTribe
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To: white rose
"Is this the Indian story you were referring to?"

Yup. There's another about some temples found underwater also. (less old)

120 posted on 11/27/2002 7:41:02 AM PST by blam
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To: LostTribe
I am answering you in FReepMail.
121 posted on 11/27/2002 8:04:02 AM PST by JudyB1938
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To: LostTribe
"No, but 2 out of 3 is not bad. {ggg}."

I thought that everyone knew you were 6'2". (Ahem)

122 posted on 11/27/2002 8:24:58 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
>I thought that everyone knew you were 6'2". (Ahem)

Let's just say I hope to keep growing, and leave it at that. {ggg}.

123 posted on 11/27/2002 9:18:23 AM PST by LostTribe
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To: blam
Thanks for the ping ...
124 posted on 11/27/2002 9:24:34 AM PST by manna
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To: blam; LostTribe
Funny, that dosn't look like 6' 2" to me:


125 posted on 11/27/2002 9:39:41 AM PST by PaulKersey
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To: PaulKersey; LostTribe
"Funny, that dosn't look like 6' 2" to me:"

My mother always said: "Be nice every chance you get"

126 posted on 11/27/2002 10:01:45 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
Maybe but, you're now into the million+ year range. Africa and South America began to split 120 million years ago. (as an example)

No, I'm not talking about plate tectonics, I'm talking about crustal displacement. The entire crust moves at once. The ancient Egyptians claim that they're the oldest civilization because they've observed three of these movements. At the same time of Joshua where the bible says the sun didn't set for a whole day, the ancient inhabitants of Mexico (being on the other side of the planet) said the sun didn't rise for a whole day and through the night they guessed where it would rise (apparently this had happened in their history before), the ones that guessed what is presently the east were correct.

127 posted on 11/27/2002 10:10:31 AM PST by #3Fan
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To: blam
I saw those, probably cut into a pre-existing natural structure before it flooded.

But done by humans, contrary to what Schott said.

128 posted on 11/27/2002 10:11:33 AM PST by #3Fan
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To: #3Fan
I' ve read all this stuff time and again. Now, I'm one to believe 'where there's smoke, there's fire,' but, I just can't get serious about this explanation.
129 posted on 11/27/2002 10:23:06 AM PST by blam
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To: #3Fan
"But done by humans, contrary to what Schott said."

Schott said that IF any of the features were done by humans, it was done to an already existing natural structure before it went below the waves.
He also said, "If you find anything other than what I've already been shown, I'll be on the first plane back." (...or something close to that)

I wasn't impressed with anything I saw until I saw the large carved human faces on those huge structures. Those got my attention. (I immediately thought of Mt Rushmore)

130 posted on 11/27/2002 10:33:26 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
I' ve read all this stuff time and again. Now, I'm one to believe 'where there's smoke, there's fire,' but, I just can't get serious about this explanation.

Do you take Einstein seriously?

"In a polar region there is a continual deposition of ice, which is not symmetrically distributed about the pole. The earth's rotation acts on these unsymmetrically deposited masses [of ice], and produces centrifugal momentum that is transmitted to the rigid crust of the earth. The constantly increasing centrifugal momentum produced in this way will, when it has reached a certain point, produce a movement of the earth's crust over the rest of the earth's body, and this will displace the polar regions toward the equator."

- Albert Einstein From The Path of the Pole by Charles Hapgood.

Einstein also stated:

"In a polar region there is continual deposition of ice, which is not symmetrically distributed about the pole. The earth's rotation acts on these unsymmetrically deposited masses, and produces centrifugal momentum that is transmitted to the rigid crust of the earth. The constantly increasing centrifugal momentum produced in this way will, when it has reached a certain point, produce a movement of the earth's crust over the rest of the earth's body."

131 posted on 11/27/2002 10:46:16 AM PST by #3Fan
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To: blam
Schott said that IF any of the features were done by humans, it was done to an already existing natural structure before it went below the waves.

LOL Obviously. No one is claiming ancient scuba divers did it.

He also said, "If you find anything other than what I've already been shown, I'll be on the first plane back." (...or something close to that) I wasn't impressed with anything I saw until I saw the large carved human faces on those huge structures. Those got my attention. (I immediately thought of Mt Rushmore)

It's unfortunate that Schott made his statements right before the faces were photographed. He wouldn't say the same thing now, that's for sure.

132 posted on 11/27/2002 10:49:42 AM PST by #3Fan
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To: #3Fan
260 cubic miles of ice collecting on the South pole per year. A lot of weight not perfectly balanced. :^)
133 posted on 11/27/2002 10:51:40 AM PST by #3Fan
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To: blam
Bump
134 posted on 11/27/2002 10:56:09 AM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: blam
Schott said that IF any of the features were done by humans, it was done to an already existing natural structure before it went below the waves.

Let me expand on this. Schott said he thought that any human-carved features would've been done to an already existing structure. Yet isn't the claim that the high underwater currents of that region created the structure? So it wouldn't have been created until the structure went underwater. Why would humans carve faces on something that didn't exist yet? And we know they didn't wait until it went underwater. And if the faces were carved, then the structure went underwater to be "finished" by the currents, why did the currents leave the faces intact? So if there has been only one ocean-rising event, then the whole structure was above water and made by humans. Humans may have used the natural grain of the structure to make their stages, but the ocean currents did not do it. The faces prove it.

135 posted on 11/27/2002 11:04:49 AM PST by #3Fan
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To: LostTribe
A hundred years later, this "lost" Northern Kingdom of Israel with now over 6 Million Israelites helped the Medes and Persians overthrow the Assyrians, then escaped north through the Caucasus Mountains and around the Black and Caspian Seas, to explode into history ~610 BC as The Celts.

Meantime, their language had changed from Semitic in family to Indoeuropean, which is difficult enough to understand given that their Assyrian captors were themselves Semitic. Celtic is also on a rather different branch from the Persian flavor of Indoeuropean. Therefore, it's hard to see what a Lost Tribe of Israel with the history you relate is doing speaking it.

136 posted on 11/27/2002 11:07:40 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: #3Fan
"It's unfortunate that Schott made his statements right before the faces were photographed. He wouldn't say the same thing now, that's for sure."

I noticed that too.

I'll give more thought to crustal plate (rapid) movement theory. I'm still a skeptic though.

137 posted on 11/27/2002 11:13:54 AM PST by blam
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To: #3Fan
"Yet isn't the claim that the high underwater currents of that region created the structure? "

Nope, the water didn't do anything. Didn't you see the exact same structures on land nearby? The structures were above water, the humans rearranged and carved some faces on them, then, the oceans rose and covered them. (it's that simple)

138 posted on 11/27/2002 11:18:15 AM PST by blam
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To: #3Fan; blam
260 cubic miles of ice collecting on the South pole per year. A lot of weight not perfectly balanced. :^)

I'm thinking of the washing machine, when you have clothes in the 'spin' cycle and there's a pair of jeans wadded up on one side.

The 'clunk clunk clunk' you can hear from the other side of the house caused by the imbalance.

As I see it, this *has* to happen to a spinning ball like the Earth as ice builds up. And computers should be able to give some very good ideas as to the how, when, where.

The one big question to me is, what about the acceleration from such a momentum change? Wouldn't that destroy all buildings, throw people miles, etc?

We now know 'gravity' is actually curvature of the 'fabric' of the universe. Is it possible something about gravity prevents us from such acceleration changes outside our slice of 'space/time'?

139 posted on 11/27/2002 11:35:11 AM PST by Dominic Harr
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To: Dominic Harr
"Wouldn't that destroy all buildings, throw people miles, etc? "

That's what I was thinking, not to mention that movement like that would cause the world's oceans to 'slosh' over all the land masses on earth and destroy and kill everything.

It would explain a worldwide flood though.

But, I'm still thinkin'.

140 posted on 11/27/2002 11:43:03 AM PST by blam
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To: VadeRetro
>Meantime, their language had changed from Semitic in family to Indoeuropean, which is difficult enough to understand given that their Assyrian captors were themselves Semitic.

Thank You. Language is the poorest of all "indicators" of who when where and when. Think about it, how long does it take a European family which moved to America before it loses all touch with European language and cultural roots. 3 generations? 2 generations? And this with modern day transportation and communication. While language links are taught in school as being important, no real archeologist relies on them as other than an afterthefact curiosity.

That being said, there are numerous links between the Hebrew of that day and modern European languages.

141 posted on 11/27/2002 12:14:56 PM PST by LostTribe
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To: blam
Nope, the water didn't do anything. Didn't you see the exact same structures on land nearby? The structures were above water, the humans rearranged and carved some faces on them, then, the oceans rose and covered them. (it's that simple)

The scientists I saw were speaking of the currents. I didn't see any 'exact" same structures. I saw a lot of things that had some form but not to the point of forming stages. I believe that humans used the grain of the geology to form the stage. It's too uniform.

At any rate it's not really important whether the stage was formed naturally or not. The scientists speaking against this structure were doing so to prove that the place didn't have any history related to man. The faces prove them wrong. I don't include Schott in this, he was careful in his words. But I know he wouldn't repeat what he said before the faces were photographed.

142 posted on 11/27/2002 12:25:20 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: blam
I expect archaeology/anthropology will be shaken to the core when it is.

I expect that it will be also. This is one of the reason that I put so little trust in the numbers, population, that are thrown around, It seems that you can't put a spade in the ground with out finding a human culture, often in the most supprising places.

143 posted on 11/27/2002 12:30:13 PM PST by Little Bill
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To: LostTribe
Uh huh. Yeah.
144 posted on 11/27/2002 12:37:22 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
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To: LostTribe
No really. A Semitic people is conquered by another Semitic people. The conquerees, by the time they free themselves, have adopted a language from God-Knows-Where unrelated to others in the area at the time and call themselves by another name. It's almost as if they are somebody else.
145 posted on 11/27/2002 12:43:27 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: Dominic Harr
I'm thinking of the washing machine, when you have clothes in the 'spin' cycle and there's a pair of jeans wadded up on one side.

Good analogy.

The 'clunk clunk clunk' you can hear from the other side of the house caused by the imbalance. As I see it, this *has* to happen to a spinning ball like the Earth as ice builds up. And computers should be able to give some very good ideas as to the how, when, where.

I think a pole shift could trigger it since everywhere there's solidified lava, there should be a slight force that wants to align with the North and South. Integrate that force everywhere on the planet and the force may be enough to overcome the static friction that keeps everything in place at the moment. (Static friction between two entities is greater than kinetic friction between those same two entities by the way). But that's something I thought of two days ago and haven't seen anyone else with that theory. Scientists believe that our core is getting ready to flip it's poles. If it happens within the next few decades, we'll see. There may not be enough ice built up to get it going though since there's no land on the North Pole. Of course Geenland is pulling.

The one big question to me is, what about the acceleration from such a momentum change? Wouldn't that destroy all buildings, throw people miles, etc?

The ancient accounts say it took all day for this to happen so the speed of this would not be much more than a thousand miles an hour. Imagine taking 3 hours to accelerate from 0 to 1000 miles an hour and then another three hours to go back to 0. The acceleration would not be great at all, barely perceptable. I think there would be great winds though since the atmosphere is miles and miles thick. And the friction between the crust and the mantle would cause a lot of the earth's volcanos to erupt at once. "The fountains of the earth were broken up" paraphrasing from the bible during Noah's flood. So between the wind and the rumbling ground there probably wouldn't be many buildings left standing.

We now know 'gravity' is actually curvature of the 'fabric' of the universe. Is it possible something about gravity prevents us from such acceleration changes outside our slice of 'space/time'?

There seems to be a concept of zero velocity, zero acceleration in relation to the whole of the universe. Otherwise we'd see objects moving at nearly the speed of light and maybe even dipping in and out of time.

146 posted on 11/27/2002 12:47:36 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: LostTribe
Language is the poorest of all "indicators" of who when where and when. Think about it, how long does it take a European family which moved to America before it loses all touch with European language and cultural roots. 3 generations? 2 generations? And this with modern day transportation and communication.

That's because they're surrounded by another culture they adopt. They don't suddenly start speaking an Asian language. Languages have continuity, they come from somewhere.

That being said, there are numerous links between the Hebrew of that day and modern European languages.

Prove it.

Borrowings through the Old Testament don't count.

147 posted on 11/27/2002 1:03:26 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
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To: A.J.Armitage
Prove it.

In the spirit of Thanksgiving "tookee" and "turkey". The Hebrew pronunciation for "big ole pheasant" was tookee, modern english is turkey. See a Strong's Concordance for more.

148 posted on 11/27/2002 1:12:55 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: blam
Why would they have wanted to block holes in the wall with pebbles, a wall underwater?
149 posted on 11/27/2002 1:16:13 PM PST by WaterDragon
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To: blam
Taken together, the discoveries have helped to overturn the established notion that Taiwan's earliest aboriginal inhabitants made their way here from mainland China some 6,000 years ago.(There goes the giant hynea theory, huh?)

The aboriginals in Taiwan are of Polynesian origin, not Chinese.

150 posted on 11/27/2002 1:25:39 PM PST by killjoy
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