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3 major U.S. Civil War movies due in 2003: Could Rebel Flag Revival Follow? (My Title)
The Washington Times ^ | November 29th, 2002 | Scott Bowles

Posted on 11/29/2002 7:57:37 AM PST by End The Hypocrisy

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To: Hacksaw
Exactly. General Lee disagreed with Slavery. Only a very small portion of Southerners were wealthy enough to own slaves.
21 posted on 11/29/2002 8:39:11 AM PST by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: Skooz
Alexander of Macedon was a very short man. He had long curly, dark blonde hair, deep set eyes and a broken nose. I would think Owen Wilson would be able to pull his character off.
22 posted on 11/29/2002 8:40:15 AM PST by ChicagoRepublican
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To: End The Hypocrisy
Barnes is/was an @sshole! While I don't think he lost his job just for the Confederate flag, it definately had a part in his defeat.
23 posted on 11/29/2002 8:41:02 AM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
Remember, the winners write the history books.
24 posted on 11/29/2002 8:41:18 AM PST by jgrubbs
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To: stainlessbanner
ping
25 posted on 11/29/2002 8:43:59 AM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: Skooz
Look if shatner can do it Leo can.
26 posted on 11/29/2002 8:46:59 AM PST by dts32041
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
>>>Only a very small portion of Southerners were wealthy enough to own slaves<<<

Perhaps as few as 8%, right? And once the Industrial Revolution made slavery increasingly obsolete...
27 posted on 11/29/2002 8:47:35 AM PST by End The Hypocrisy
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To: ChicagoRepublican
>>>Alexander of Macedon was a very short man.<<<


Kind of like Dallas runningback star Emmit Smith, who leads the NFL in all-time rushing?
28 posted on 11/29/2002 8:48:48 AM PST by End The Hypocrisy
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To: jgrubbs
I probably won't watch either of these, I just can't see Tom Cruise, Jude Law, Nicole Kidman, or Renee Zellweger in any Civil War movie that I would enjoy.

I have to agree with not watching Cruise or Law, but as for Nicole Kidman and Renee Zellweger, I have other roles in mind for them two.
29 posted on 11/29/2002 8:49:04 AM PST by Sparta
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To: HELLRAISER II
Perhaps South Carolina Governor Barnes won't be one of the only politicians in recent memory to wish they had sided differently with our Southern Heritage?
30 posted on 11/29/2002 8:49:57 AM PST by End The Hypocrisy
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To: Hacksaw
The overwhelming number of people who fought for the CSA were fighting for their home state, not slavery.

I am aware of the "revisionism" to claim that there was little link between slavery and the Civil War, however that is simply not the case. The Confederacy was organized to maintain the institution of slavery. The US government kept trying to limit the scope of slavery for the decades leading up to the war -- and the slave states were constantly reiterating their support for slavery and their anger at federal attempts to restrict it.

The Confederate Flag stood for slavery. That's history. Live with it.

31 posted on 11/29/2002 8:50:07 AM PST by jlogajan
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To: jlogajan
The flag of slavery???

I'll make this post and y'all figure out which flag. The Battle Flag has caught a lot of Hell that is not deserved.

Slavery was a legal institution in this country for over 200 years. Africans were brought here by northern slave traders to be used in northern industry, long before the antebellum South or the Confederacy ever existed. The first American colony to legalize slavery was Massachusetts in 1641, only 17 years after the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock. "The slave trade became very profitable to the shipping colonies and Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut and New Hampshire had many ships in the triangular trade,"

(72). "The moral argument against slavery arose early in the New England shipping colonies but it could not withstand the profits of the trade and soon died out."

(73). Thomas Jefferson condemned the slave trade in the original draft of the Declaration of Independence, but the New England slave traders lobbied to have the clause stricken. In a short eleven year period form 1755 to 1766, no fewer than 23,000 slaves landed in Massachusetts. By 1787, Rhode Island had taken first place in the slave trade to be unseated later by New York. Before long, millions of slaves would be brought to America by way of 'northern' slave ships. After all, there were no Southern slave ships involved in the triangular slave, it was simply too cruel.

William P. Cheshire, the senior editorial columnist for the Arizona Republic recently noted, the New England Yankee who brought slaves to America, "were interested in getting money, not in helping their cargo make a fresh start in the New World." He adds that northern slave ownership "isn't widely known - American textbooks tend to be printed in Boston, not Atlanta - but early New Englanders not only sold blacks to Southern planters but also kept slaves for themselves as well as enslaving the local Indian population,"

(74). Slavery did not appear in the deep South until northern settlers began to migrate South, bringing with them their slaves. It was soon discovered that while slaves were not suited to the harsh climate and working conditions of the north, they were ideal sources of cheap labor for the newly flourishing economy of the agricultural South. Of the 9.5 million slaves brought to the Western Hemisphere from 1500 - 1870, less than 6% were brought to the United States. This means that our Hispanic, British and French neighbors to the south owned over 94% of the slaves brought to the New World. In the South, less than 7% of the total population ever owned a slave. In other words, over 93% of Southerners did not own any slaves,

(75). Attempts to outlaw the slave trade in the north only increased the profits of smuggling. In 1858, only two years prior to the birth of the Confederacy, Stephen Douglas noted that over 15,000 slaves had been smuggled into New York alone, with over 85 vessels sailing from New York in 1859 to smuggle even more slaves. Perhaps it was their own guilt that drove the abolitionists of the day to point an accusing finger at the South, while closing their eyes to the slavery and the slave trade taking place in their own back yards.

For more than 200 years, northern slave traders mad enormous profits that furnished the capitol for future investments into mainstream industries. Who is more responsible for slavery in America, the Southern plantation owner who fed and clothed his slaves, or the New England "Yankee" slave trader who brought the slaves here in the first place?

From 1641, when Massachusetts first legalized slavery, until 1865, when the Confederate struggle for independence ended, slavery was a legal institution in America that lasted over 224 years. The Confederate battle flag flew for 4 of those 224 years, but the U.S. flag and its colonial predecessors flew over legalized slavery for ALL of those 224 years. It was the U.S. flag that the slave first saw, and it was the U.S. flag that flew on the mast of New England slaves ships as they brought their human cargo to this country. It is clear, that those who attack the Confederate flag as a reminder of slavery are overlooking the most guilty and hateful of all reminders of American slavery, the U.S. flag.

Bibliography: 72. The Concise Dictionary of American History, (Scribner & Sons), p.876 73. Ibid 74. The Arizona Repblic, June 11, 1995 75. Rober William Fogel and Stanley L. Engerman, Time on the Cross - The Economics of American Negro Slavery (New York: Norton, 1974), p.14 http://www.hpa.org/inforec/arg3.html

32 posted on 11/29/2002 8:50:11 AM PST by SCDogPapa
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To: jgrubbs
>>>Remember, the winners write the history books.<<<

Just like they said in the classic movie Braveheart, when explaining how William Wallace was (temporarily) considered such a scoundrel.
33 posted on 11/29/2002 8:50:46 AM PST by End The Hypocrisy
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To: Hacksaw; Non-Sequitur; WhiskeyPapa; Ditto
Even if the CSA had won, slavery would never have lasted - in fact General Lee disagreed with it and freed all his slaves before he took command.

Not true.

34 posted on 11/29/2002 8:50:47 AM PST by x
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To: SCDogPapa
It is clear, that those who attack the Confederate flag as a reminder of slavery are overlooking the most guilty and hateful of all reminders of American slavery, the U.S. flag.

The Confederacy fell and therefore the meaning of its flag is frozen in time. The flaws of the US, however, have largely been self-correcting. The meaning of the US and therefore its flag have evolved. It just wasn't to be that the Confederate slaveholding flag would have a chance to redeem itself. But it didn't. Live with it.

35 posted on 11/29/2002 8:54:40 AM PST by jlogajan
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Ugh....LET IT GOOOO...friggin Hillbillies, get a life.

36 posted on 11/29/2002 8:55:17 AM PST by VaBthang4
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To: End The Hypocrisy
If we the people of Georgia had been given the right to vote on the flag & we supporters were defeated by the majority of other Georgia voters, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But when King Roy & his stooges decided on it in the middle of the night & TOLD us how it was going to be, well I guess we actually set Ol'King Roy straight on what the future of Georgia and our flag was all about with our recent vote that puts him out in the streets.
37 posted on 11/29/2002 8:55:45 AM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: Hacksaw
Even if the CSA had won, slavery would never have lasted

Oh, I'm sure the Democractic South would have pushed for better rights for blacks at the time.
Let's say it's true what you say, but when it ended the Democrat led South sure as heck were quick to jump on the Klan bandwagon, Jim Crow laws, and made dang sure up until the 1960's that black children could even go to school with white children.

Granted equal rights weren't going to happen over-nite, but as far up as the 1960's was unacceptable in the Democratic controlled South. Matt

38 posted on 11/29/2002 9:01:22 AM PST by GOPyouth
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To: Petronski
Anyone but Sheen as Lee for G-d's sake. Duvall should be good.
39 posted on 11/29/2002 9:01:54 AM PST by wardaddy
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To: End The Hypocrisy
Nice postings....I knew about women and college but not the rest.
40 posted on 11/29/2002 9:03:57 AM PST by wardaddy
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