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When is Christmas? (It's about time.)
Oregon Magazine ^ | December 1, 2002 | Larry Leonard

Posted on 12/01/2002 9:37:41 AM PST by WaterDragon

There seems to be some dispute about the date of the first Christmas. Part of that has to do with the Gregorian calendar, which is the one we use. At one time, Greek months had three ten day weeks. This forced them to add a month or two now and then. The ancient Hebrews, who alternated 29 and 30 day months, had the same problem. Our hour and minute divisions go all the way back to Mesopotamia. Our 24 hour day comes from pharaonic Egypt. The names we use for days and months come to us from the classical Greek, by way of the Roman empire.

Our calendar is based entirely on the positions of the sun through the year. (Julius Caesar abolished calendars based on lunar cycles and forced everybody to use the solar version. His system is called the "Julian" calendar.)

So when was Jesus born? God only knows......(snip)

For Complete Article Click Here.


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1 posted on 12/01/2002 9:37:42 AM PST by WaterDragon
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To: WaterDragon
Jesus was born on Sept. 11, which was Rosh Hashanah that year, and the Hallel chant was just beginning as he was born.

That is Gregorian. I believe the Julian is Sept. 2.

The Annunciation of his birth occurred on the high day of Hanukkah, the 24th of Kislev, which was taken by Roman Christians later to be something like a December. Due to the Jewish reckoning the days about 6 hrs earlier than the Romans, this caused the 25th Dec to seem like a good choice, which also fell in line with heathen celebrations of the {visible} reversal of the Sun, its beginning to go back became noticeable.

2 posted on 12/01/2002 9:43:42 AM PST by crystalk
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To: WaterDragon
CHRISTMAS IS EVERYDAY, if you believe!!
3 posted on 12/01/2002 9:46:34 AM PST by Uncle George
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To: crystalk
"...the Hallel chant was just beginning as he was born."
Is this gleaned from Luke?
4 posted on 12/01/2002 9:47:57 AM PST by Leonine
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To: crystalk
"The Annunciation of his birth occurred on the high day of Hanukkah..."
The Annunciation was, of course, nine months before His birth (Gabriel). I think you are referring to the Presentation. The presentation of any first-born Hebrew male was on the fortieth day after birth. By your dates, this would be sometime in October.
5 posted on 12/01/2002 9:56:00 AM PST by Leonine
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To: Leonine
Howzat? If Jesus was born on Sept 11 Greg as I state, his gestation of 273 days would have had to begin in December SOME time, nicht wahr?

Why NOT the 24th of Kislev?

The angel was said to announce it to Mary in the morning, so the 24th had begun at sundown the night before...

6 posted on 12/01/2002 10:09:55 AM PST by crystalk
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To: crystalk
Wahr!
7 posted on 12/01/2002 10:18:24 AM PST by Leonine
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To: crystalk
I presumed. --Won't do it again. Are you deriving your date of Sept. 11 from calculating the course of Abijah and adding six months? (See earlier query.)
8 posted on 12/01/2002 10:22:19 AM PST by Leonine
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To: Leonine
No, it is from assuming that he was born in 7 BC and taking it that the Rosh Hashanah on that year fell on Sept 11.
9 posted on 12/01/2002 10:31:09 AM PST by crystalk
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To: crystalk
Why Rosh Hashanah?
10 posted on 12/01/2002 10:34:41 AM PST by Leonine
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To: crystalk
I don't have the permutation table of possible dates for Rosh Hashanah before me. Remembering that there is no year zero, one need only divide by 19 and count backwards through the possible dates from the contemporary one. But why Rosh Hashanah?
11 posted on 12/01/2002 10:47:02 AM PST by Leonine
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To: Leonine
"one need only divide by 19 and count backwards"
count backwards by the remainder - 1.
12 posted on 12/01/2002 10:49:55 AM PST by Leonine
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To: Leonine
Gotta go. May God bless you.
13 posted on 12/01/2002 11:05:56 AM PST by Leonine
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To: WaterDragon
If the multicultural crowd gets its way, it won't much matter.
14 posted on 12/01/2002 11:06:32 AM PST by Paul Atreides
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To: WaterDragon
This Is Appendix 179 From The Companion Bible.
I. Parallel Datings of the Times of Our Lord.

II. Dates of "The Begetting" and The Nativity.

III. "The Course of Abia".

A.M. = Anno Mundi; that is to say, in the year of the world.
B.C. = Before Christ. Reckoned as from 4004 A.M.
A.C. = Anno Christi; that is to say, in the year of Christ. Reckoned from the Nativity, in 4000 A.M. and 749-750 A.U.C.
A.U.C. = Anno Urbis Conditoe; that is to say; the year in which the City (Rome) was founded.


I.
PARALLEL DATINGS OF THE TIMES OF OUR LORD.
A.M. B.C. - A.D. A.C. A.U.C. YEARS OF THE REIGN OF AUGUSTUS (OCTAVIUS). YEARS OF THE REIGN OF TIBERIUS.
3960 44 9
1 43 710
2 42 11
3 41 12
4 40 13
5 39 14 Herod declared king by the Romans, according to Josephus (Ant.xvii. 8 § 1), who states that his death took place thiryt-seven years later, and as he always reckoned his years from Nisan to Nisan (including initial and terminal fractions of Nisan as complete years), the death of Herod would be in 749-750 A.U.C., or 4-3 B.C.
6 38 15
7 37 16
8 36 17
9 35 18
3970 34 19
1 33 720
2 32 21
3 Battle of Actium 31 722 1st year of Octavius.
4 30 Decree of Senate of Rome. 23 2
5 29 24 3
6 28 25 4
7 27 26 5 AUGUSTUS (Octavius) IMPERATOR
8 26 27 6
9 25 28 7
3980 24 29 8
1 23 730 9
2 22 31 10
3 21 32 11
4 20 33 12
5 19 34 13
6 18 35 14
7 17 36 15
8 16 37 16
9 15 38 17
3990 14 39 18
1 13 740 19
2 12 41 20
3 11 42 21
4 10 43 22
5 9 44 23
6 8 45 24
7 7 46 25
8 6 47 26
9 {5} 48 27
(See Appendix 50) 4000 THE NATIVITY 1st taxing or Census Luke 2:2
{4 YEARS OF THE AGE OF THE LORD
0} 749
Herod d.c end of January 3 B.C. 28
Our Lord birth 15th Tisri = 29th September 4 B.C.
{1 {3 Quirinus' First Governorship. 1} 750 29
{2 {2 2} 51 30
3 {1 3} 52 31
4004 0 A.D. 4 753 32 A.D. reckoning begins, owing to the mistake of Dionysius Exiguus in arranging the Calendar of the Christian Era in A.D. 532.
5 1 5 54 33
6 2 6 55 34
7 3 7 56 35
8 4 8 57 36
9 5 9 58 37
4010 6 10 59 38
1 7 11 760 39
2 8 12 Christ in the Temple 61 40
3 9 13 62 41
4 2nd Census (?) 10 14 63 42 YEARS OF THE REIGN OF TIBERIUS.
5 11 15 64 43
6 12 16 65 44 1st yr. of Tiberius' 1 joint reign with Augustus.
7 13 17 66 45 2
8 14 18 67 19th August 46 Augustus dies. 3 Tiberius alone.
9 15 19 68 4
4020 16 20 69 5
1 17 21 770 6
2 18 22 71 7
3 19 23 72 8
4 20 24 73 9
5 21 25 74 10
6 22 26 75 11
7 23 27 76 12
8 3rd Census (?) 24 28 77 13 3rd Census this year (?).
9 25 29 78 14
4030 26
The Ministry 30
of our 779
Lord begins
(Luke 3:23) in the 15th
year of Tiberius.
1 27 31 780 16
2 28 32 81 17
ANNO MUNDI
4033 THE CRUCIFIXION
29 A.D.THE LORD
33 YEARS OF AGE. A.U.C. ROMAN RECKONING.
782 THE 18th
year of Tiberius.



II.
DATES OF "THE BEGETTING" (he gennesis, Matthew 1:18,20 (see Revised Version marg.). John 1:14-) OF OUR LORD AND HIS BIRTH. (Luke 2:7. John 1:-14.)

TEBETH (29) 1 =25-26 DECEMBER (7) (5 B.C.).
2 = 26-27
3 = 27-28
4 = 28-29
5 = 29-30
6 = 30-31
7 = 31-1
8 = 1-2 JANUARY (31) (4 B.C.).
9 = 2-3
10 = 3-4
11 = 4-5
12 = 5-6
13 = 6-7
14 = 7-8
15 = 8-9
16 = 9-10
17 = 10-11
18 = 11-12
19 = 12-13
20 = 13-14
21 = 14-15
22 = 15-16
23 = 16-17
24 = 17-18
25 = 18-19
26 = 19-20
27 = 20-21
28 = 21-22
29 = 22-23
SEBAT (30) 1 = 23-24
2 = 24-25
3 = 25-26
4 = 26-27
5 = 27-28
6 = 28-29
7 = 29-30
8 = 30-31
9 = 31-1
10 = 1-2 FEBUARY (29) (Leap Year)
11 = 2-3
12 = 3-4
13 = 4-5
14 = 5-6
15 = 6-7
16 = 7-8
17 = 8-9
18 = 9-10
19 = 10-11
20 = 11-12
21 = 12-13
22 = 13-14
23 = 14-15
24 = 15-16
25 = 16-17
26 = 17-18
27 = 18-19
28 = 19-20
29 = 20-21
30 = 21-22
ADAR (29) 1 = 22-23
2 = 23-24
3 = 24-25
4 = 25-26
5 = 26-27
6 = 27-28
7 = 28-29
8 = 29-1
9 = 1-2 MARCH (31)
10 = 2-3
11 = 3-4
12 = 4-5
13 = 5-6
14 = 6-7
15 = 7-8
16 = 8-9
17 = 9-10
18 = 10-11
19 = 11-12
__________
78 | 78
20 = 12-13
21 = 13-14
22 = 14-15
23 = 15-16
24 = 16-17
25 = 17-18
26 = 18-19
27 = 19-20
28 = 20-21
29 = 21-22
NISAN (30) 1 = 22-23
2 = 23-24
3 = 24-25
4 = 25-26
5 = 26-27
6 = 27-28
7 = 28-29
8 = 29-30
9 = 30-31
10 = 31-1
11 = 1-2 APRIL (30)
12 = 2-3
13 = 3-4
14 = 4-5
15 = 5-6
16 = 6-7
17 = 7-8
18 = 8-9
19 = 9-10
20 = 10-11
21 = 11-12
22 = 12-13
23 = 13-14
24 = 14-15
25 = 15-16
26 = 16-17
27 = 17-18
28 = 18-19
29 = 19-20
30 = 20-21
ZIF (29) 1 = 21-22
2 = 22-23
3 = 23-24
4 = 24-25
5 = 25-26
6 = 26-27
7 = 27-28
8 = 28-29
9 = 29-30
10 = 30-31
11 = 1-2 MAY (31)
12 = 2-3
13 = 3-4
14 = 4-5
15 = 5-6
16 = 6-7
17 = 7-8
18 = 8-9
19 = 9-10
20 = 10-11
21 = 11-12
22 = 12-13
23 = 13-14
24 = 14-15
25 = 15-16
26 = 16-17
27 = 17-18
28 = 18-19
29 = 19-20
SIVAN (30) 1 = 20-21
2 = 21-22
3 = 22-23
4 = 23-24
5 = 24-25
6 = 25-26
7 = 26-27
8 = 27-28
9 = 28-29
________
156 | 156
10 = 29-30
11 = 30-31
12 = 31-1
13 = 1-2 JUNE (30)
14 = 2-3
15 = 3-4
16 = 4-5
17 = 5-6
18 = 6-7
19 = 7-8
20 = 8-9
21 = 9-10
22 = 10-11
23 = 11-12
24 = 12-13
25 = 13-14
26 = 14-15
27 = 15-16
28 = 16-17
29 = 17-18
30 = 18-19
THAMMUZ (29) 1 = 19-20
2 = 20-21
3 = 21-22
4 = 22-23
5 = 23-24
6 = 24-25
7 = 25-26
8 = 26-27
9 = 27-28
10 = 28-29
11 = 29-30
12 =30-1
13 = 1-2 JULY (31)
14 = 2-3
15 = 3-4
16 = 4-5
17 = 5-6
18 = 6-7
19 = 7-8
20 = 8-9
21 = 9-10
22 = 10-11
23 = 11-12
24 = 12-13
25 = 13-14
26 = 14-15
27 = 15-16
28 = 16-17
29 = 17-18
AB (30) 1 = 18-19
2 = 19-20
3 = 20-21
4 = 21-22
5 = 22-23
6 = 23-24
7 = 24-25
8 = 25-26
9 = 26-27
10 = 27-28
11 = 28-29
12 = 29-30
13 = 30-31
14 = 31-1
15 = 1-2 AUGUST (31)
16 = 2-3
17 = 3-4
18 = 4-5
19 = 5-6
20 = 6-7
21 = 7-8
22 = 8-9
23 = 9-10
24 = 10-11
25 = 11-12
26 = 12-13
27 = 13-14
28 = 14-15
__________
234 | 234
29 = 15-16
30 = 16-17
ELUL (29) 1 = 17-18
2 = 18-19
3 = 19-20
4 = 20-21
5 = 21-22
6 = 22-23
7 = 23-24
8 = 24-25
9 = 25-26
10 = 26-27
11 = 27-28
12 = 28-29
13 = 29-30
14 = 30-31
15 = 31-1 SEPTEMBER (29)
16 = 1-2
17 = 2-3
18 = 3-4
19 = 4-5
20 = 5-6
21 = 6-7
22 = 7-8
23 = 8-9
24 = 9-10
25 = 10-11
26 = 11-12
27 = 12-13
28 = 13-14
29 = 14-15
ETHANIM (TISRI) (15) 1 = 15-16
2 = 16-17
3 = 17-18
4 = 18-19
5 = 19-20
6 = 20-21
7 = 21-22
8 = 22-23
9 = 23-24
10 = 24-25
11 = 25-26
12 = 26-27
13 = 27-28
14 = 28-29
ETHANIM OR (TISRI) 15 = 29-30 SEPTEMBER
____________
Days on Jewish reckoning, 280 | 280 days, on Gentile reckoning.
_____ _____
According to Jewish reckoning. According to Gentile (Western) reckoning.
TEBETH 29 days DECEMBER 7 days
SEBAT 30 days JANUARY 31 days
ADAR 29 days FEBUARY 29 days
NISAN 30 days MARCH 31 days
ZIF 29 days APRIL 30 days
SIVAN 30 days MAY 31 days
THAMMUZ 29 days JUNE 30 days
AB 30 days JULY 31 days
ELUL 29 days AUGUST 31 days
ETHANIM 15 days SEPTEMBER 29 days
__________ __________
280 280





280 days = 40 weeks - forty sevens, the perfect period of human gestation [7x5x8=280].
The Component Numbers of 280 are highly significant in this connection.
7 denotes Spiritual Perfection.
5 denotes Divine Grace.
8 denotes Resurrection, Regeneration, etc. (Appendix 10).
1st TEBETH = 25th December (5 B.C.)
15th ETHANIM = 29th September (4 B.C.).
From 1st TEBETH to 15th ETHANIM (inclusive) = 280 days.
From 25th DECEMBER (5 B.C .) to 29th SEPTEMBER (4 B.C.) = 280 days.


It thus appears without the shadow of a doubt that the day assigned to the Birth of the Lord, videlicet: December 25, was the day on which He was "begotten of the Holy Ghost", that is to say, by pneuma hagion = divine power (Matthew 1:18, 20 marg.), and His birth took place on the 15th of Ethanim, September 29, in the year following, thus making beautifully clear the meaning of John 1:14,"The Word became flesh" (Matthew 1:18,20) on 1st Tebeth or December 25 (5 B.C.), "and tabernacled (Greek eskenosen) with us", on 15th of Ethanim or September 29 (4 B.C.).
The 15th of Ethanim (or Tisri) was the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles. The Circumcision therefore took place on the eighth day of the Feast = 22nd Ethanim = October 6-7 (Leviticus 23:33-43). So that these two momentous events fall into their proper place and order, and the real reason is made clear why the 25th of December is associated with our Lord, and was set apart by the Apostolic Church to commemorate the stupendous event of the "Word becoming flesh" - and not, as we have for so long been led to suppose, the commemoration of a pagon festival.


An overwhelmingly strong argument in favour of the correctness of this view lies in the fact that the date of "the Festival of Michael and All Angels" has been from very early times the 29th day of September, on Gentile (Western) reckoning.
But "the Church" even then had lost sight of the reason why this date rather than any other in the Calendar should be so indissolubly associated with the great Angelic Festival.

The following expresses the almost universal knowledge or rather want of knowledge of "Christendom" on the subject: "We pass on now to consider, in the third place, the commemoration of September 29, the festival of Michaelmas, par excellence. It does not appear at all certain what was the original special idea of the commemoration of this day" (Smith Dictionary of Chr. Antiqq. (1893), volume ii, page 1177 (3) ).

A reference, however, to the Table and statements above, make the "original special idea" why the Festival of "Michael and All Angels" is held on September 29 abundantly clear. Our Lord was born on that day, the first day of the "Feast of Tabernacle" (Leviticus 23:39). This was on the fifteenth day of the seventh Jewish month called Tisri, or Ethanim (Appendix 51. 5), corresponding to our September 29 (of the year 4 B.C.).

The "Begetting" (gennesis) Day of the Lord was announced by the Angel Gabriel. See notes on Daniel 8:16, and Luke 1:19.

The "Birth" Day, by "(the) Angel of the Lord", unnamed in either Matthew and Luke.

That this Angelic Being was "Michael the Archangel" (of Jude 9), and "Mika'el hassar haggadol-"Michael the Great Prince"-of Daniel 12:1, seems clear for the following reason: If, "when again (yet future) He bringeth the First-begotten into the world, He saith, Let all the Angels of God worship Him" (Hebrews 1:6; quoting Psalm 97:6)-then this must include the great Archangel Michael himself. By parity of reasoning, on the First "bringing" into the world of the only begotten Son, the Archangel must have been present. And the tremendous announcement to the shepherds, that the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6) was on earth in the person of the Babe of Bethlehem, must therefore have been made by the same head of the heavenly host (Luke 2:9-14). In mundane affairs, announcement of supremest importance (of Kings, etc.) are invariably conveyed through the most exalted personage in the realm. The point need not be laboured.


The fact of the Birth of our Lord having been revealed to the shepherds by the Archangel Michael on the 15th of Tisri (or Ethtanim), corresponding to September 29, 4 B.C.-the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles-must have been known to believers in the Apostolic Age. But "the mystery of iniquity" which was "already working" in Paul's day (2 Thessalonians 2:7) quickly enshrouded this and the other great fact of the Jewish month Tebeth (corresponding to December 25, 5 B.C.)-as well as other connected with His sojourn on earth,4-in a rising mist of obscurity in which they have ever since been lost.
The earliest allusion to December 25 (modern reckoning) as the date for the Nativity is found in the Stromata of Clement of Alexandria, about the beginning of the third century A.D. (See note 3).5

That "Christmas" was a pagan festival long before the time of our Lord is beyond doubt. In Egypt Horus (or Harpocrates 6), the son of Isis (Queen of Heaven), was born about the time of the winter solstice.7 By the time of the early part of the fourth century A.D., the real reason for observing Christmas as the date for the miraculous "begetting" of Matthew 1:18 and "the Word becoming flesh" of John 1:14 had been lost sight of. The policy of Constantine, and his Edict of Milan, by establishing universal freedom of religion furthered this. When many of the followers of the old pagan systems-the vast majority of the empire, it must be remembered- adopted the Christian religion as a cult, which Constantine had made fashionable, and the "Church" became the Church of the Roman Empire, they brought in with them, among a number of other things emanating from Egypt and Babylon, the various Festival Days of the old "religious". Thus "Chirstmas Day," the birthday of the Egyptian Horus (Osiris), became gradually substituted for the real Natalis Domini of our blessed Saviour, videlicet: September 29,or Michaelmas Day.


If, however, we realize that the centre of gravity, so to speak, of what we call the Incarnation is the Incarnation itself- the wondrous fact of the Divine "begetting", when "the Word became flesh" (see Matthew 1:18 and John 1:14) - and that this is to be associated with December 25 instead of March - as for 1,600 years Christendom has been led to believe - then "Christmas" will be seen in quite another light, and many who have hitherto been troubled with scruples concerning the day being, as they have been taught, the anniversary of a Pagan festival, will be enabled to worship on that Day without alloy of doubt, as the time when the stupendous miracle which is the foundation stone of the Christian faith, came to pass.
The "Annunciation" by the Angel Gabriel marked the gennesis of Matthew 1:18, and the first words of John 1:14.

The announcement to the shepherds by the Archangel Michael marked the Birth of our Lord. John 1:14 is read as though "the Word became flesh (Revised Version), and dwelt among us", were one and the same thing where - as they are two clauses.

The paragraph should read thus:


"And the Word became flesh; (Greek ho logos sarx egeneto.)


And tabernacled with (or among) us." (Greek kai eskenosen en hemin).
The word tabernacled here (preserved in Revised Version marg.) receives beautiful significance from the knowledge that "the Lord of Glory" was "found in fashion as a man" , and thus tabernacling in human flesh. And in turn it shows in equally beautiful significance that our Lord was born on the first day of the great Jewish Feast of Tabernacles, videlicet: the 15th of Tisri, corresponding to September 29, 4 B.C. (modern reckoning).
The circumcision of our Lord took place therefore on the eighth day, the last day of the Feast, the "Great Day of the Feast" of John 7:37 ("Tabernacles" had eight days. The Feast of Unleavened Bread had seven days, and Pentecost one. See Leviticus 23).


The main arguments against the Nativity having taken place in December may be set forth very simply:

(i) The extreme improbability, amounting almost to impossibility, that Mary, under such circumstances, could have undertaken a journey of about 70 miles (as the crow flies), through a hill district averaging some 3,000 feet above sea - level, in the depth of winter:

(ii) Shepherds and their flocks would not be found "abiding" (Greek agrauleo) in the open fields at night in December (Tebeth), for the paramount reason that there would be no pasturage at that time. It was the custom then (as now) to withdraw the flocks during the month Marchesvan (October-November)8 from the open districts and house them for the winter.

(iii) The Roman authorities in imposing such a "census taking" for the hated and unpopular "foreign" tax would not have enforced the imperial decree (Luke 2:1) at the most inconvenient and inclement season of the year, by compelling the people to enroll themselves at their respective "cities" in December. In such a case they would naturally choose the "line" of least resistance", and select a time of year that would cause least friction, and interference with the habits and pursuits of the Jewish people. This would be in the autumn, when the agricultural round of the year was complete, and the people generally more or less at liberty to take advantage, as we know many did, of the opportunity of "going up" to Jerusalem for the "Feast of Tabernacles" (compare John 7:8-10, etc.), the crowning Feast of the Jewish year.
To take advantage of such a time would be to the Romans the simplest and most natural policy, whereas to attempt to enforce the Edict of Registration for the purposes of Imperial taxation in the depth of winter, - when travelling for such a purpose would have been deeply resented, and perhaps have brought about a revolt,-would never have been attempted by such an astute ruler as Augustus.


With regard to the other two "Quarter Days", June 24, March 25, these are both associated with the miraculous (Luke 1:7) "conception" and the birth of the Forerunner, as December 25 and September 29 are with our Lord's miraculous "Begetting" and Birth; and are therefore connected with "the Course of Abiah."

III.
"THE COURSE OF ABIA" (Luke 1:5).
This was the eighth of the priestly courses of ministration in the Temple (1 Chronicles 24:10), and occurred, as did the others, twice in the year.

The "Courses"were changed every week, beginning each with a Sabbath. The reckoning commenced on the 22nd day of Tisri or Ethanim (Appendix 51. 5). This was the eighth and last day of the Feast of Tabernacles = the "Great Day of the Feast" (John 7:37), and was a Sabbath (Leviticus 23:39).

The first course fell by lot to Jehoiarib, and the eighth to Abia or Abijah (1 Chronicles 24:10).

Bearing in mind that all the courses served together at the three Great Feasts, the dates for the two yearly "ministrations" of Abiah will be seen to fall as follows:

The first 9 ministration was from 12-18 Chisleu = December 6-12.

The second ministration was from 12-18 Sivan = June 13-19.

The announcement therefore to Zacharias in the Temple as to the conception of John the Baptist took place between 12-18 SIVAN (June 13-19), in the year 5 B.C. After finishing his "ministration", the aged priest "departed to his own house" (Luke 1:23), which was in a city10 in "the hill country" of Juda (verse 39).

The day following the end of the "Course of Abia" being a Sabbath (Sivan 19), he would not be able to leave Jerusalem before the 20th.

The thirty miles journey would probably occupy, for an old man, a couple of days at least. He would therefore arrive at his house on the 21st or 22nd. This leaves ample time for the miraculous "conception" of Elizabeth to take place on or about 23rd of SIVAN 11 - which would correspond to June 23-24 of that year. The fact of the conception and its date would necessarily be known at the time and afterwards, and hence the 23rd SIVAN would henceforth be associated with the conception of John Baptist as the 1st TEBETH would be with that of our Lord.

But the same influences that speedily obscured and presently obliterated the real dates of our Lord's "Begetting" and Birth, were also at work with regard to those of the Forerunner, and with the same results. As soon as the true Birth day of Christ had been shifted from its proper date, videlicet: the 15th of Tisri (September 29), and a Festival Day from the Pagan Calendars substituted for it (videlicet: December 25), then everything else had to be altered too.

Hence "Lady Day" in association with March 25 (new style) became necessarily connected with the Annunciation. And June 24 made its appearance, as it still is in our Calendar, as the date of "the Nativity of John the Baptist", instead of, as it really is, the date of his miraculous conception.

The Four "Quarter Days" may therefore be set forth thus: first in the chronological order of the events with which they are associated, videlicet:


The conception of John Baptist on or about 23rd SIVAN = June 24 in the year 5 B.C.
The Gennesis (Begetting) of our Lord on or about 1st TEBETH = December 25 in the year 5 B.C.
The birth of John Baptist on or about 4th-7th NISAN = March 25-28 in the year 4 B.C.
The birth of our Lord on or about 15th TISRI = September 29 in the year 4 B.C.

or, placing the two sets together naturally:-


{The conception of John 23rd SIVAN = June 23-24 in the year 5 B.C.
{The birth of John 7th NISAN = March 28-29 in the year 4 B.C.
{The Miraculous "Begetting" 1st TEBETH = December 25 in the year 5 B.C.
{The NATIVITY 15th TISRI = September 29 in the year 4 B.C.


NOTES
1 ZUMPT fixes Quirinus' (Cyrenius') First Governorship as 4 B.C. to 1 B.C. Justin Martyr thrice says that our Lord was born under Quirinus (Apol. 1. XXXIV, page 37; XLVI, page 46; Dial. LXXVIII, page 195. Clarks edition).

2 According to some, Augustus died August 19, A.D. 14. Therefore if Tiberius' co-regnancy was for two years before Augustus' death his first year was 765 A.U.C. = 12 A.D.. His fifteenth year consequently was A.U.C. 779 = 26 A.D. = 4030 A.M. and A.C. 30, for our Lord was thirty years of age when He begun His Ministry (Luke 3:23). Clement of Alexandria gives the years of Augustus' reign as being 43-46, according to different reckonings in his day.

3 According to Clement of Alexandria (compare A.D. 190-220) "Our Lord was born in the twenty-eighth year when first the census was ordered to be taken in the reign of Augustus" (Stromata, Book i, see Clark's edition i. pages 444-445). If that is correct, and it is true that a Census was taken every fourteen years, then the next would fall in A.D. 10, and the succeeding one would have been due A.D. 24.

4 Notably the day of the crucifixion, etc (see Appendix 156 and Appendix 165).

5 His statements are, however, very vague, and he mentions several dates claimed by others as correct.

6 Osiris reincarnated.

7 See Wilkinson's Ancient Egyptians, Volume III, page 79 (Birch's edition).

8 It is true that the Lebanon shepherds are in the habit of keeping their flocks alive during the winter months, by cutting down branches of trees in the forests in that district, to feed the sheep on the leaves and twigs, when in autumn the pastures are dried up, and in winter, when snow covers the ground (compare Land and Book, page 204), but there is no evidence that the Bethlehem district was afforested in the manner.

9 Reckoning of course from Ethanim or Tisri - the First month of the civil year. The sacred year was six month later, and began on 1st Nisan.

10 The "city" is not named (possibly Juttah, some 30 miles to the south of Jerusalem).

11 The conception of John Baptist was, in view of Luke 1:7, as miraculous as that of Isaac; but it is not necessary to insist upon the complete period of forty sevens in the case of Elizabeth. Therefore the birth of the Forerunner may have been three or four days short of the full two hundred and eighty days, - as indicated in the above table.
15 posted on 12/01/2002 11:29:23 AM PST by BikerTrash
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To: BikerTrash
AUC = Ab Urbe Condita, not Anno Ubris Conditoe.

Now, Anno Urbis (year of the city) is correct, but Conditoe is utterly incorrect Latin, so I'm somewhat concerned about some of the other Roman dating that is used.

They do, apparently, reckon the AUC dating correctly, more or less. Still, I worry about the accuracy due to that error.
16 posted on 12/01/2002 12:06:48 PM PST by TheAngryClam
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To: WaterDragon
The Bible doesn't specify the date for a reason. The apostles and disciples never celebrated His birth date for a reason. The Christmas we celebrate today is basically of pagan Babylonian origin, and the RC church put its own "spin" on it long ago. Read "The Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop (late 19th century work) for more information.
17 posted on 12/01/2002 3:16:07 PM PST by dreamusic
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To: TheAngryClam
Your concern is noted, interesting and appreciated. I am in no condition to argue, or even clarify. I will say that Bullinger's writings are becoming quite old, and have possibly become susceptible to reprinting errors.

Mainly, I posted this for part III, "The Course of Abia." Many people say that the date of the birth of Christ cannot be reckoned from the Bible. I consider Bullinger's work here as close as you can come to it, but some other FReepers disagree, (at least they have in years past).

18 posted on 12/01/2002 9:32:27 PM PST by BikerTrash
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To: WaterDragon
The names we use for days and months come to us from the classical Greek, by way of the Roman empire.
I protest! Both Wednesday (othinsdagr) and Thursday (thorsdagr) comes from Viking mythology (Odin and Thor). Dunno about the rest though.

/ Viking freeper

19 posted on 12/02/2002 4:00:44 AM PST by anguish
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To: WaterDragon
So when was Jesus born?

I am more concerned with when will he be back ;)

20 posted on 12/02/2002 4:04:48 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: My back yard; blackie; dixiechick2000; Aric2000; Iconoclast2
Ping!
21 posted on 12/02/2002 11:32:28 AM PST by WaterDragon
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To: WaterDragon
I agree with post # 20.
22 posted on 12/02/2002 4:25:18 PM PST by blackie
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To: blackie
Spiritually, what matters is looking to Christ's return, I agree. But the question of time of His birth is interesting!
23 posted on 12/03/2002 8:40:44 AM PST by WaterDragon
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To: WaterDragon
"But the question of time of His birth is interesting!"

It definitely wasn't on Dec 25th... :o)

24 posted on 12/03/2002 9:37:24 AM PST by blackie
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To: blackie
Well, Christmas in December, with no other distractions than cold and snow, sure focuses the mind and heart!
25 posted on 12/03/2002 12:48:06 PM PST by WaterDragon
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