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Kerry to unfurl plan to halt Bush tax cuts
The Boston Globe ^ | 12/03/2002 | Glen Johnson

Posted on 12/03/2002 7:50:10 AM PST by GeneD

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:08:38 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

WASHINGTON - Senator John F. Kerry is kicking off his presidential campaign with an economics speech today that will flesh out his proposal to freeze Bush administration tax cuts in favor of a payroll tax cut for workers and new investment incentives for businesses.


(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: businessroundtable; electionpresident; georgewbush; johnkerry; marylandrieu; payrolltax; socialsecurity; taxes
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1 posted on 12/03/2002 7:50:10 AM PST by GeneD
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To: GeneD
Sounds to me like Kerry wants to raise income taxes.
2 posted on 12/03/2002 7:54:43 AM PST by Garden Island
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To: GeneD
MR. Kerry you can keep your F*****G tax plan to yourself, leave President Bush's Tax plan alone. We don't want to pay anymore taxes.
3 posted on 12/03/2002 7:56:53 AM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: GeneD
Kerry is a muppet. Convoluted, issue jumping, political sleezeball. And that's on his good days.

This new pitch at doing NOTHING will gain him, oh, maybe 2 votes. His and his dog's, (who I am pretty sure votes).

4 posted on 12/03/2002 7:58:12 AM PST by JoeSixPack1
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To: GeneD
That's it Democrats!

Keep living up to your legacy as Tax & Spend Liberals!

The implosion continues...
5 posted on 12/03/2002 8:00:02 AM PST by TSgt
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To: GeneD
Risky scheme... Wouldn't be prudent.

If somebody does not pay income tax, how do they get a rebate of income taxes?

6 posted on 12/03/2002 8:01:01 AM PST by gridlock
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To: GeneD
Bush's answer should be:

I am not for raising people's income taxes by rolling back what we have already passed. But I think that decreasing payroll taxes as well is not a half bad idea.

7 posted on 12/03/2002 8:01:10 AM PST by William McKinley
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To: HELLRAISER II
This is so absurd. The politicians complain about the fate of social security all the time and Kerry comes out in favor of reducing social security taxes. He says we can't afford President Bush's tax cut but then how can we afford this one? It's ridiculous and totally disingenuous. Another rebate is not what we need. We tried that last year and it didn't do a whole lot of good.

I say, accelerate the Bush tax cuts, making them effective now. Eliminate the double taxation on dividends and reduce the capital gains tax.

I'm not against a payroll tax cut but Kerry's plan is all smoke and mirrors. He doesn't have a clue.

8 posted on 12/03/2002 8:04:11 AM PST by Wphile
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To: GeneD
Does this jerk think he is president already? What the hell is he doing? The Democreeps need to put a muzzle and leash on this guy if they know what's good for them. They are in hot water as it is and Kerry is bringing them down futher into the abyss. Oh well - buh bye democreeps!!
9 posted on 12/03/2002 8:04:27 AM PST by areafiftyone
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To: gridlock
Easy - all they got to do is call it a prepayment on your Social Security. EVERYBODY that works for wages pays the SS and Medicare tax, the most regressive taxes now assessed on the workers of America. Poor black men pay into the fund so rich white widows may benefit.
10 posted on 12/03/2002 8:05:13 AM PST by alloysteel
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To: Wphile
The way I look at it if SSI will be history before I can take advantage of it, In my opinion I need to start putting MY MONEY in my own account for ME not for someone else. They are continuously trying to screw us and quite frankly i'm tired of it.
11 posted on 12/03/2002 8:07:34 AM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: GeneD
There should be more tax cuts, not less. PresBushes 2001 tax reduction plan should be accelerated, not frozen. Capital gains should be slashed. The death tax and the marriage penalty tax should be abolished. The AMT should be killed. The best move, would be for the Bush administration to push for serious tax reform and make that part of his reelection strategy for 2004.
12 posted on 12/03/2002 8:08:36 AM PST by Reagan Man
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To: GeneD
Bush can respond "keep my tax break, phase out AMT tax, AND provide 6 month temporary moratorium on payroll taxes."
13 posted on 12/03/2002 8:09:51 AM PST by finnman69
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To: alloysteel
That's a little unfair to say, if they're already rich chances are their husband already paid a considerable amount of taxes. However like I said in a previous post, if SSI becomes defunct by the time I can collect then I need to either keep my money or invest it in my own damn account & quit paying for other peoples bills.
14 posted on 12/03/2002 8:10:35 AM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: *Election President
bump
15 posted on 12/03/2002 8:10:46 AM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: GeneD
A voice from the darkness of the living dead.
16 posted on 12/03/2002 8:12:48 AM PST by chiefqc
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To: GeneD
These guys still don't get it. Someone needs to tell the rats "IT'S THE WAR STUPID". By time the election rolls around nothing else will matter. Some would say this is by coincidence. Others might contend that we have drug this post 9-11 thing out this long for a reason. Either way... it is what it is.
17 posted on 12/03/2002 8:12:58 AM PST by kjam22
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To: GeneD
Uhm....

Let me see...

To get the so called "Kerry" plan passed, it would have to be passed by a Republican house, and a Republican senate. It would then have to be signed by president Bush, who made the tax cuts the centerpiece of his agenda.

Uhhm....

I wouldn't hold my breath Senator Kerry!
18 posted on 12/03/2002 8:13:06 AM PST by apillar
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To: Wphile
I'm not against a payroll tax cut but Kerry's plan is all smoke and mirrors.

I don't understand why this can't be characterized as an attempt to destroy Social Security!

19 posted on 12/03/2002 8:14:41 AM PST by sinkspur
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To: GeneD
Wishful thinking by Hair Kerry.
20 posted on 12/03/2002 8:15:03 AM PST by savedbygrace
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To: All
Folks,

We have won. For the first time in recent memory, the argument is not whether there SHOULD be tax cuts or not from the Dems, but where they should come from and how much they should be.

21 posted on 12/03/2002 8:15:35 AM PST by Sam's Army
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To: gridlock
Payroll taxes are still taxes. Someone earning $25,000 per year still pays taxes for god's sake. This is a good sign at this stage. Let's hope the rat campaign race for 2004 becomes a tax reduction fight of mounting proportion by election time. Maybe by 2004, they will be giving away toasters, cheese, mufflers, and cutting the payroll tax and cutting marginal rates. How about cutting them all to 10%, eliminating mortgage interest, killing the 401K/IRA exemptions, and everyone just pays 10% of gross earnings.
22 posted on 12/03/2002 8:16:13 AM PST by blackdog
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To: GeneD
proposal for a one-year rebate of some of the payroll taxes that workers now provide to support the Social Security and Medicare systems.

This is a one-time rebate, not a permanent reduction in the payroll tax. Kerry can stuff it! I prefer a permanent reduction of tax rates. Even the Bush plan is only for ten years, but that's a lot better than Kerry's proposal.

23 posted on 12/03/2002 8:18:37 AM PST by Attillathehon
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To: GeneD
Kerry is in the wealthiest 1% of taxpayers. Perhaps he should tell how Bush's tax cuts helped him and hurt everybody else.
24 posted on 12/03/2002 8:20:21 AM PST by N. Theknow
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To: GeneD
"By 2010 the wealthiest 1 percent of taxpayers will receive 52 percent of the administration tax cuts, according to Citizens for Tax Justice, a watchdog group based in Washington, D.C."

Citizens for Tax Justice? Tax Justice would mean they would refund the taxes to those WHO PAID THEM. Is this a joke?

25 posted on 12/03/2002 8:21:57 AM PST by goodnesswins
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To: Garden Island
"Because there is political danger in doing something that could be seen as jeopardizing the stability of the Social Security trust fund, the proponents of a payroll tax cut favor a mechanism of providing relief in the form of a rebate, which would be distributed via the federal income tax system. Under such accounting, payroll taxes would still flow into the Social Security and Medicare trust funds at the current rate, but the rebates would come from the general treasury account where taxes are paid and overpayments refunded."

So let me see if I get this, let's call it a payroll tax cut but use the money from the general fund where Americans that pay income tax pay their taxes. Sounds like an end run to give people who don't pay tax our money....again.
Am I wrong???

26 posted on 12/03/2002 8:22:07 AM PST by sleeper-has-awakened
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To: GeneD
Is this guy a loser or what? LOL
27 posted on 12/03/2002 8:22:11 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: Garden Island
Sounds to me like Kerry wants to raise income taxes.

Sounds to me like Kerry wants to be the next Walter Mondale, winning the Democrat nomination and then losing 49 of 50 states in the general election.

28 posted on 12/03/2002 8:23:13 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: sinkspur
Exactly, where are the old people screameing about this? He is proposing cutting Social Security taxes, i.e. reducing the money available to pay benefits to seniors. For all the talk about Lock Boxes what ever they are this is a direct assault on Seniors. Why can the democrats get away with it?
29 posted on 12/03/2002 8:24:40 AM PST by On the Road to Serfdom
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To: goodnesswins
Is there something wrong with that statement? It looks like a statement of fact to me. What is wrong with facts?
30 posted on 12/03/2002 8:27:14 AM PST by Karsus
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To: GeneD
PLEASE, how can we get this man off the evening news.
He is disgusting.
I spent 8 years with my remote in my hand so I cold escape bill clinton, now this.
31 posted on 12/03/2002 8:28:25 AM PST by fabriclady
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To: TLBSHOW
Note that Kerry's tax cut does nothing to the marginal tax rates (he actually increases them as he wants to freeze the Bush tax cut). Since only decreases in the marginal tax rates help the economy, the net effect would be a worse economy.

Funny how those "tax watchgroups" never mention what percentage of the income tax revenues they pay vs how much of the GDP they earn (hint: it's way more).
32 posted on 12/03/2002 8:30:56 AM PST by winner3000
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To: On the Road to Serfdom
The demoncrats are not getting away with it.
That is one way they lost the election. They think seniors are stupid and will fall for their lies. Seniors can't be fooled over and over. I am a senior, for years I have heard the tired old scare tactics. Never once did I fall for their lies. Of course, I am a Right Wing Conservative.
Born on, still one.
33 posted on 12/03/2002 8:33:28 AM PST by fabriclady
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To: Karsus
NO....nothing wrong with the "statement".....but the statement sounds like an attack on the 1% who pay the 52% in taxes and would benefit most. Maybe I read it wrong.
34 posted on 12/03/2002 8:34:50 AM PST by goodnesswins
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To: GeneD; All
Here's a copy of the letter I just fired off to the author of this article:

Dear Mr. Johnson:

Your article was very interesting, but a bit incomplete.

>>By 2010 the wealthiest 1 percent of taxpayers will receive 52 percent of the administration tax cuts, according to Citizens for Tax Justice, a watchdog group based in Washington, D.C. >>

In the interests of accuracy and good reporting, you should follow this sentence up with another that tells how large a percentage of overall taxes are paid by the wealthiest 1 percent of taxpayers. Otherwise, the sentence is as misleading as it is useless, because it lacks a vital context.

Sincerely, (etc)

35 posted on 12/03/2002 8:35:06 AM PST by Finny
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To: finnman69
Bush should say:
Keep you hands out of the Social Security lock-box!
36 posted on 12/03/2002 8:36:12 AM PST by expatpat
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To: Karsus
Better get your facts straight before spewing leftist garbage around these parts, amigo. Try on these facts for size (and I do mean facts): The top 1% of wage earners pay one-third of total income taxes; The top 5% pay 55%, the top 10% pay over two-thirds, and the top 50% of wage earners paid 92.98% of the total income tax!

And incidentally, the least wealthy 50% pay only 4%! We live in a socialist nation ......You should like it.

37 posted on 12/03/2002 8:37:39 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: GeneD
EVERYONE SHHHHH!!!!!!! LET HIM KEEP TALKING LIKE THIS!!

Ummm... HEY Kerry that sure is a REALLLL good idea, yessirree...

BTW- didn't you guys kill some innocent vietnamese villagers when you were over there...?

38 posted on 12/03/2002 8:39:54 AM PST by Mr. K
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To: savedbygrace
How about tax credits for expensive haircuts?
39 posted on 12/03/2002 8:44:04 AM PST by Moonman62
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To: Rye
Thanks.....your statistics correct mine.
40 posted on 12/03/2002 8:45:55 AM PST by goodnesswins
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To: sinkspur
Right! That's what makes the whole thing so disingenuous. I swear the Dems are such losers when it comes to tax cuts. They try so hard to sound convincing but...

Remember Clinton's middle class tax cut? Oh yeah, it never happened.

Plus, this notion that people who don't pay any income tax didn't get anything back is bogus. Most people who earn less than $30,000 DO get money back even though they don't pay any income tax. It's called the Earned Income Tax Credit and it was designed to make up for the disparity of those who get hit so hard on the PR tax even though they don't make a lot of money.

Kerry's a dip.

He also said on MTP, that we have an obligation to our children not to "borrow" from them in the form of tax cuts today. Well, Senator, what the h*ll is this cock-a-mamie scheme if it isn't "borrowing" payroll taxes today so we can pony up even more later?

41 posted on 12/03/2002 8:46:05 AM PST by Wphile
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To: Moonman62
Another way to put it is: If the Dims run him in 2004, they're committing Hairy Kerry.
42 posted on 12/03/2002 8:50:19 AM PST by savedbygrace
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To: Rye
I would like say thank you for your well reasoned reply.

Since you appear to know so much about me, mind telling me what I would like to eat for lunch?

This quote was not about what percentage anyone pays. The quote was

"By 2010 the wealthiest 1 percent of taxpayers will receive 52 percent of the administration tax cuts, according to Citizens for Tax Justice, a watchdog group based in Washington, D.C."

Looks to me like it says that 1% of taxpayers get 52% of the tax cut.

I passed no judgement on if this was a good/bad/fair/unfair thing.



43 posted on 12/03/2002 8:52:00 AM PST by Karsus
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To: GeneD
Glen Johnson is my next-door neighbor and a very good reporter, but this is sloppy. It looks like I am going to have to give him some lessons in calculating tax cuts and properly describing left-wing, union-funded organizations such as CTJ. Keep posting your correct information and I will pass it along to him.
44 posted on 12/03/2002 8:52:25 AM PST by Dems_R_Losers
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To: sleeper-has-awakened
let's call it a payroll tax cut but use the money from the general fund

I thought about this, too.
The truth is, it's ALL in the general fund anyway. And cutting payroll taxes would affect everyone since it's on the first X dollars of all income.
It would be cool to demagogue this back at them with "you're cutting the SS tax? Won't that destroy social security?". They would then have to admit that there is no SS fund.

45 posted on 12/03/2002 8:52:32 AM PST by MrB
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To: Karsus
Since you appear to know so much about me, mind telling me what I would like to eat for lunch?

Crow

46 posted on 12/03/2002 8:53:53 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: gridlock
If somebody does not pay income tax, how do they get a rebate of income taxes?

Millions already do just that - ever hear of the Earned Income Tax Credit?

47 posted on 12/03/2002 8:55:04 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: sinkspur
I don't understand why this can't be characterized as an attempt to destroy Social Security!

The hoar heads don't care as long as it's the boomers who are getting screwed.

48 posted on 12/03/2002 8:55:46 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: GeneD
Is Kerry just a misbegotten socialist, or a real, dyed-in-the-red commie?
49 posted on 12/03/2002 8:57:53 AM PST by onedoug
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To: GeneD
"Currently, everyone who works is taxed 6.2 percent of their first $84,900 in earnings to support the Social Security retirement trust fund. They are also taxed 1.45 percent of everything they earn to support the Medicare health-care fund. Both payments are matched by employers."

The part in BOLD is the longest-running lie in the history of America. Your employer does NOT pay "his share" of your SS. YOU pay it. Because your stated "salary" is not how much you really make.

You "make" what it costs the employer to have you on the payroll. You may THINK you make $40,000 a year, but you REALLY make about $50,000. Because that's how much it costs an employer to "pay you $40,000." Doubt me? Go to your boss and ask to see "your line in the personnel budget." That line will be a dollar figure, and that dollar figure is how much you are really making.

Now. Out of that dollar figure, YOU are paying 100% of every last deduction taken out of your paycheck. You pay 100% of your SS/Mediscare, 100% of your health care, 100% of your pension/IRA/401K, 100% of your income taxes.

If you don't believe me, open up a business and hire some help. You will quickly learn how much you are REALLY paying your employees. And, if you're an employee, that's how much you're REALLY making.

Michael

50 posted on 12/03/2002 9:01:22 AM PST by Wright is right!
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