Old And In The Way (Decline and Fall of Europe)

American Enterprise Magazine ^ | December 2002 | Karl Zinsmeister

[Brian Allen]

They sure hate US, eh?

Those mean-spirited folks who show the world it's possible to get by without a country.

Especially the ones huddled along our border.

That 99.5% of them.

And then there are their mentors, the lip curled supercilious devious and duplicitous Limeys!

Shudder .........

[PuNcH]

Many French are so deluded, it isn't funny. In their minds, the counterweight to U.S. power will be French brains, German engineering, Arab manpower, and Gulf oil money. To them, this notion is entirely sane.

The same problems europe is having, America is having to a lesser degree. Americans right here at FR constantly use the same reasoning as above to defend it all. American brains and engineering can supposedly excuse the sellout of our manufacturing. Well they've retreated from engineering and now simply extol the virtues of "innovation", brains.

"Political elites feel that the people have no right to obstruct the realization of the European dream."

And in America the elites call it globalism, new world order, etc., but we cant even defend our own borders anymore.

[fightinJAG]

Excellent article.

I agree that Islam ismoving into this vacuum. Soon France will be a Muslim country. As the problems the author notes begin more and more to manifest, Islamafascism will seep in.

[Zack Nguyen]

One of the fascinating things about the German moral argument about the war...less than 5 percent of German population go to church on a regular basis. While 50 percent may go around Easter or Christmas...the bulk of society simply pay their state-required church tax and never say a word (if you don't pay, you can't get married in the church or have a church funeral...so they all pay for nothing).

Very good point. Europe has become secularized at an incredible rate. The single most important question a country can answer is what it thinks about God - every other answer flows from that. More than anything else, that is the difference between Europe and America - we still retain something of our Christian heritage.

[Michael81Dus]

Will you tell me why? You should know better how Germany proves solidarity and it fulfils its obligations to the alliance - more than the non-military NATO-member France or the non-NATO-member Russia does!!

BTW, I have contacted Prof. Pommerin. I couldn´t believe what I have read.
He told me that these reproaches ARE NOT TRUE and that he reserves his right to sue the claimers.

[PeoplesRep_of_LA]

Brilliant article.

This echos my sentiments about the sinister reality of Eurosocialism, but it makes the point so well, particuarly the part saying to the effect that since 1970 there's been 55 million new jobs in the US but 5 in Europe that are undestandably mostly government? Holy Cow is that amazing!

This would leave me feeling sorry for Europe, if I didn't suspect they bitterly wanted me to lose my job and be dependant on the State. Spread the word.

[tictoc]

BTW, I have contacted Prof. Pommerin. I couldn´t believe what I have read.
He told me that these reproaches ARE NOT TRUE and that he reserves his right to sue the claimers.

Throughout the two days, Pommerin set the tone with an aggressively antagonistic attitude toward all things American. "Thank God we had the 11th of September," he declared--for this showed the U.S. how it feels to be humbled. Herr professor-colonel went on to suggest that Americans often feel nostalgic for the "good old days of slavery in the nineteenth century." He told ludicrous stories about seeing empty bottles and litter piled "one meter deep" along roadsides in America, illustrating our environmental slovenliness. He insisted the seemingly mighty U.S. military was now a hollow force, all flash and no substance.

Invite him to come on FreeRepublic and respond to the above quotes attributed to him. He deserves a fair hearing. I promise that if he does, I will send an e-mail to Mr. Zinsmeister at the American Enterprise magazine. However, in all likelihood Zinsmeister will not be able to respond quickly as he is currently embedded in Iraq with the 82nd Airborne Division.

[LiberationIT]

Bump to read later.

[tictoc]

Zinsmeister's article is rather pessimistic for the future of European-American relations.

For a still-critical, but less harsh, view please read Americans are from Mars, Europeans are from Venus by Robert Kagan. It seems that Kagan is more hopeful than Zinsmeister for the future, and more willing to make allowances for European differences of opinion.

However, average readers of Der Spiegel or Le Monde are so deeply indoctrinated with resentment of American policy, it is unlikely that they will be able to recognize Kagan for what he is: a true friend of Europeans, willing to go the extra mile to be understanding and patient.

[tictoc]

Ping to you, because you posted the Kagan article (from the London Times) on FreeRepublic.

[longjack]

Will you tell me why?

I think Schroeder's incompetent and unreliable. I think he's also a tar baby. The German opposition can't unify to oust him. There's no sense in dealing with Germany.

JMO.

longjack

[Michael81Dus]

That´s what Prof. Pommerin wrote to me:

"Da hätten sie gewiß Recht (You were right), wenn ich als bekannter USA-Freund (if I as a well-known US-friend)(Harvard Fellow und Fulbright-Ehrenprof. an der Vanderbilt University) solche Sprüche gemacht hätte (had said such remarks)! Der frühere Dt. Botschafter bei der NATO (the former German Ambassador to NATO), von Richthoven war ebenfalls anwesend (von Richthofen was also there), solche Äußerungen sind natürlich nicht gemacht worden (of course, such comments were not made). der Veranstalter hat ein entsprechendes Schreiben in die USA gesandt (the organizer has sent a letter to the US). An diesem Beispiel ist mir klar geworden, welche armen Schweine diejenigen sind, deren Ruf in den Medien durch Gerüchte oder angebliche Äußerungen geschädigt werden, un die dies mehr
oder weniger hilflos über sich ergehen lassen müssen (to remain untranslated)! ...
Falls es mehrere Veröffentlichungen gibt, würde ich eventuell Klage erheben."

[Michael81Dus]

You´re right, just your opinion. But Jack, I thought you understood why we can´t get rid of Schröder now... the opposition cannot dismiss him, we need THEIR votes, too.

[Michael81Dus]

I posted his response to me, I will not "invite him to come on FR", because that would look like a trial ("fair hearing") and I don´t think that this is adaquate.

I believe Prof. Pommerin, and I can´t explain why such wrong quotes were made...

[tictoc]

Okay, so Pommerin categorically denies having made those comments.

You left the last two sentences of his e-mail untranslated. My translation: "This example has made clear to me how miserable ["arme Schweine" -- poor wretches] anyone is whose reputation is harmed in the media by rumors or alleged statements and who has to suffer this abuse more or less helplessly ...
If there are several publications ["mehrere Veröffentlichungen"], I might consider bringing a lawsuit."

It is unclear what he means by "mehrere Veröffentlichungen" -- perhaps he won't sue the American Enterprise Magazine, in which the article appeared, but will sue any media that reprint the comments attributed to him?

In my opinion this is fairly serious. If Pommerin is right, then Zinsmeister made up the statements attributed to Pommerin out of whole cloth -- a serious breach of journalistic ethics. I am not a journalist, but I believe in most reputable media this would constitute a "firing offense".

Conversely, if Pommerin is lying, then he has only dug himself deeper into the hole he is already in.

I will e-mail Mr. Zinsmeister and ask him to respond after he gets back from Iraq.

Regardless, the larger point, as you well know, remains: There are many Germans in high office (Daeubler-Gmelin, for example) or with influence (Drewermann, for example) who do indeed make similarly preposterous claims about the U.S. every day.

[Michael81Dus]

1. The comment "mehrere Veröffentlichungen" is said because I wrote of "US-Medien" - so he concluded that several media printed the story, I told him where I got it from.

2. Those high-ranking Germans come from the left - Pommerin is a Colonel (Res) and a friend of von Richthofen, I guess he´s on the right side.

3. I have never heard anybody saying that the 9-11 attacks were good, except maybe Nazis or radical Muslims.

When you get response from Zinsmeister, will you inform me, please? Thanks in advance,

Michael

[longjack]

After criticism over her pro-American course in the Iraq war CDU boss Angela Merkel said Saturday in Bochum, addressing the USA, "If you think that you can, as the only superpower in this world, regulate everything alone, then you will fail." The party and parliamentary fraction chief Sunday on 'Deutschlandfunk', however, warned, about encountering the USA with distrust in the debate about post-war order. Merkel expressed understanding for critics within the party over her Pro-American course. Because of her position on the Iraq issue she has plummeted in favor with voters.

Bundesregierung und Union warnen USA vor weiteren Alleingängen

"She caved, Jim."

I think the article shows the SPD, Greens and the Union are holding hands in their post-war strategy. "Schroederitis' is catching. Forget about how important "their" votes for ousting him are, and think about "ours". Schroeder has 'risen' to 32% favorability and the CDU is caving.

Again, JMO.

BTW, I was especially "fond" of Beer's remarks: Let the war parties pay for it, but the UN should develop it.

longjack

[Michael81Dus]

So what´s wrong with my party´s comments? They are right, and in no way "anti-american". And in a democracy (especially as a politican) you have to show understaning for criticism.

The Iraq war is diverting from domestic problems, and we all knew that the SPD will not stay at the 27% level...
My hope is, that evidence, that Iraq had WDM, will be released to the public very soon. That will give us (war-supporters) a after-war justification to those who never wanted to believe.

[longjack]

"Fearless Leader" Merkel sounds like she's bowing to pressure. Sometimes, regardless of public opinion, one must stick to their guns, ala Tony Blair.

Schroeder taps into the latest trend to redefine his image when it means improved "Waehlergunst". Some pages of Schroeder's playbook seem to have stuck on Merkel. As I said I think, he's a tar baby.

"They will fail"; warnings of, "not to meet the US with mistrust" (how about, "we can trust them"?), while not necessarily anti-American, don't evoke oodles of warm-fuzzies in me. She can keep her pep-talk to herself until the war is over AFAIC.

longjack

[Michael81Dus]

That´s the problem: They cannot keep their pep-talk to themselves: they are politicians! They are asked every s#it and sometimes they must give an answer. So they tell them "uh, not making faults now, US should be careful, do everything to support and strengthen the UN, blah blah". They´re not like us who we don´t have to express our opinion. Merkel still keeps her pro-war course, but she steps down in criticizing their opponents.